Brenden Kumarasamy: A lot of people think the number one challenge of public speaking presentations is the fear around speaking. I actually disagree with this idea, so lemme start there. I believe that the number one challenge of communication is actually motivation.
Chris Do: Hey, in case you don't notice, we're in a different place and Brenden has picked a wonderful place for us to do this podcast. And whenever possible, I think it's awesome to be able to do this in person. People say the energy is different. And so I'll just start off with my usual question, Brenden, for people who don't know who you are, can you please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit of your story?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, absolutely, Chris. Thanks for having me on the show. So my name is Brenden Kumarasamy. I'm the founder of MasterTalk. MasterTalk is a YouTube Channel and the coaching practice I started to help people communicate ideas effectively. And how I got started was when I was in college, I studied in accounting. So when I was 19 years old, I had no ambition of being a communication expert.
And I wanted to work at one of the big four accounting firms. And then in that journey, I started doing case competitions. Think of it like professional sports for nerds, Chris. So while other guys my age were playing like golf or soccer or football, I wasn't really one of those guys. I did presentations competitively.
That's how I learned how to speak. And then I accidentally got really good at coaching other people on how to speak. And I started making YouTube videos a few years ago.
Chris Do: That's pretty wild. So how does one go from accounting into doing presentations and then teaching people to do that? That doesn't map in my mind, because when I think of accountants, and no offense to accountants, it's a pretty binary world.
They're not the most forward thinking and socially comfortable people. It's like, I wanted to be an accountant, that's how I know, because I just want to look at a computer screen and make numbers work. So, what is it that drew you into the presentation part?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, absolutely, Chris. So when I was 12 years old, and you're in sixth grade and you're writing down that, hey, what do you want to be when you grow up?
And everyone says, you know, astronauts, I want to be a doctor, I want to be a stand up comedian, I want to be an actor. Yeah, I was one of those guys. I looked at my statement, my report card. And I looked at everything in my report card. And I said, you know what, I'm really good at math. And I'm really bad at everything else.
So I looked up on Wikipedia after I said, hey, what are the careers that are related to math? And I found two career choices when I was 12, it was being an actuary and being an accountant. And then I looked up the job description of what it means to be an actuary. And then I realized that you had to calculate the statistics and the likelihood of someone dying.
Then I looked at the screen and I said, I ain't gonna be an actuary. So I just chose to be an accountant. So I think the first part of that story, Chris, is I didn't really have a lot of information to go on. My parents were factory workers. They immigrated from Sri Lanka in the early 90s. So because of that journey, I didn't really know communication was even a profession or a coaching.
And I also grew up hating public speaking because I'm born and raised in Montreal. And Montreal is a city where you need to know how to speak French. And it's a language I didn't know. So my whole life I had to present in a language I didn't know. I was always worried about speaking. So the mind shift and how I got into communication was when I was doing these case competitions.
And I started doing well at them. I initially did them to get a job because I said, hey, if you do these competitions and executives notice you, they'll give you a job at PricewaterhouseCoopers, Uwire, one of these companies. But then after I got the job, I realized that I really like winning these competitions.
So then I started managing the program. It was a student run program. And I noticed that 20 to 25 percent of the guys in the group and the girls in the group, they weren't that great at communicating their ideas effectively. But I wasn't really a coach back then. I just said, oh, let me just help them because I'm winning these competitions.
I know how to well, and a lot of that coaching was intuitive, so it's kind of like you take a bunch of stuff, you throw it on a wall, and whatever sticks works, and it was years later when I started developing my own IP and my own expertise in communication that I used that and built it up over time.
Chris Do: That's a pretty hard, like, 90 degree turn from what you think you were doing. You mentioned you were good at math.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Right.
Chris Do: And then now you're coaching and winning competitions in speaking and presenting. Yes.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Right.
Chris Do: What do you think it was that in those early days, forget what you know now, but what did you do right then in that kind of timeline?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, absolutely. So in that timeline, Chris, when I started winning a couple of those competitions, I just realized when I was older that I had an innate gifting for speaking, which I didn't have when I was younger. And the reason I didn't have when I was younger is because if you're speaking in French every single time you get up on a stage, and I didn't even mention my crooked left arm because I grew up with a, I had an accident at birth. And because of that, my left arm is still crooked.
Chris Do: Mm.
Brenden Kumarasamy: So if you have that, idea of being a little self conscious whenever you're standing in front of a bunch of seven year olds and eight year olds, get a little scared around speaking. And you also mumble your words a lot because I'm speaking in French and I'm going, uh, bonjour.
So even if it was a gift that I had in communication, I never realized it was. And I think that happens a lot with some people in the world where they have this gift, but something else in their life hides it so that when they grow up, they find and discover that gift later. And what happened with me was even if I was a numbers guy, and I actually really liked being an accountant, I worked at PwC for like a year.
But what happened was when I started doing these competitions, I realized that I actually liked doing that a lot more. And then in my, this is late 2018, I had a great job at IBM. So I made another career pivot from accounting to IT consulting, because consulting at the end of the day, is case competitions, which is you go up in front of a crowd, you solve a problem for them and the executives vote on the best problem.
But then in my last semester of university, Chris, at this point, it's September, December, 2018. Like my last semester, I had coached probably 30 or 40 people on communication, but not for money. I wasn't charging any money for this. I didn't know it was a business or it could be one. And one of the guys asked one of the people I'd coached He asked me, hey, Brenden, You coach all these people on how to communicate, but how did you learn how to speak?
Like, how did you do this? And that's where I kind of got a little dumbfounded. I was like, I don't really know. Like I watched a bunch of TED talks, I went online and then in that December period, Chris, I went on YouTube and I just typed something I'd never typed in the search bar, which is communication tips.
And then I started watching guys like Alex Lyon back in the day, Carl Kwan, and I realized that the perspective I had on speaking was very different than theirs. And I realized I had something to say in this space. So I just started making videos.
Chris Do: Thanks for sharing that story. I can tell that you're a communications expert, just the way that you enunciate and how you carry yourself and your flow and your tone.
The question I asked you, but I don't feel like I got a satisfactory answer was, what was it that made you different and better in those days? Can you just, list out two or three things that you thought made you better?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, absolutely. Happy to talk about that. So the first idea with communication, Chris, is this idea of practicality.
So let's say you go on a street, right? And you ask people with a mic, hey, what advice do you have for someone who wants to get healthier? Most of the general public, even the people who are unhealthy, know the answer to that question. So the first one is going to be, you know, eat more healthy, workout more, maybe take an extra yoga class or to watch your diet.
But if you ask that same question on, hey, how should I be a more effective communicator? Nobody really knows the answer to that question. It's hey, uh, you know, speak more, articulate more. talk more. So what I felt was missing in the, in the speaking industry was this idea of practicality and sequencing. So when we learn a new skill, whether it's designing, whether, which you're obviously very good at, whether it's marketing, whether it's even learning how to play basketball, there's a sequence and a practical set of steps that we take to achieve mastery in that skill.
So basketball could be, okay, let's learn how to dribble the ball. Let's learn how to pass resin communication. That sequence didn't exist. And that's really what I brought to the field. So for me, communication, I'm happy to talk about how to actually work on this is communication is like juggling 18 balls at the same time.
So one of those balls is body language. One of them is smiling. One of them is opening your eyes a little bit more. One of them is changing your vocal tones when you speak. Another one's storytelling. And that's why a lot of us struggle with communication, Chris, because there's so many different things that we need to work on.
So the question I then asked myself was, what are the three easiest balls to juggle? In the same way we know the three first steps in fitness, what are those three first steps in communication? I'll give you one example. I call it RQV. So the first ball is the random word exercise. Take any word you want.
Basement, building, podcast, destiny, and create a 60 second presentation out of thin air with no preparation. And there's two reasons why this exercise is really effective. The first one is if you can make sense out of nonsense you can make sense out of anything. So, if you know how to talk about strawberries and blueberries, something that has nothing to do with your expertise, when you go back to your subject matter expertise, when you, the thing that you know, that you have deep expertise in, it's really easy for you to communicate those ideas out loud.
And that's what I found my experience working with a lot of people on this. And the second piece is small talk. So, what is small talk at the end of the day? It's two strangers having an unprepared conversation with each other. and since you're not prepared for that conversation, you're not very good at it.
So what's the key? If you do the random word exercise enough times, well, at the end of the day, small talk is the same series of questions. How's it going? How's your day? And you could build up that conversation with more ease. So that's just an example of a practical way of looking at communication.
Chris Do: Okay. So you said there were two things because I'm taking notes here. One was practicality and is the other one about sequencing?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah.
Chris Do: Those are the two things. And in sequencing, you gave us some examples of some exercises.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yes.
Chris Do: The random word thing, understanding the nature of small talk and how we engage in that and trying to be more comfortable in having impromptu conversations such that when we're called upon to speak about the things we theoretically know a lot about, then it's just we're in practice and we could just do that quite easily. Is that right?
Brenden Kumarasamy: That's correct. And then the other piece to that as well, Chris, and this idea of sequencing is hey, if we're not doing this one thing correctly, let's not work on the next thing. So for example, in communication, if we go, or in fitness, rather, it's probably an easier example, let's work on the pushup and get the pushups really well done.
Why are we trying to do 10 different exercises at the same time? And I think the problem I saw in the industry when I got into it probably at this point, five, six years ago, is there wasn't that accountability for the sequence. It was just, you know, speak better, be yourself on stage. Be more confident. Use the pause. I was like, okay, shouldn't we master these little exercises first? Like for example, let's say I'm coaching somebody, but really anyone who's listening to this, it applies. Let's say we take the random word exercise.
Chris, there is not a single human being, not one. That I've met in my career who has done the random word exercise a hundred times and comes back to me and goes, you know, Brenden, I'm actually a lot worse at this than when I started in the same way that in podcasting, when the person starts a podcast, their first episode, it usually reeks, right?
Whether they're a host or the guests, they're being asked questions. They don't really know the answer to those questions, but then after you do a hundred, you just get a lot better at creating. and engaging conversation with the person that you're with. So yeah, sequencing is another piece, where you don't move on to the next step until you've done a hundred random verdicts.
Chris Do: That makes a lot of sense. I can map that to how my boys learned to play the piano. The tutor that they ultimately got was really good because they said, don't try to play the whole song, just work on parts at a time until you feel mastery over that and then add the next part and add the next part. And that freed them from trying to get all of it right and screwing it up.
So they would learn something, get more confident, feel like they're learning skills, and they would learn the next thing, and they'd just keep adding to it. And it was a more elegant, less frustrating way to be able to play a piece in its entirety and be able to hit the notes and the timing down correctly.
I have to circle back one more time. So here you are, you're in college. You've actually found a newfound skill in presenting. What are the skills that you had back then that you became aware of? Like, I'm pretty good at this. What did you discover not in the post school era, but while you were in that moment in the pocket, do you recall what it was that made you better and what made you different than the other eight or nine students that were in the same class as you?
Brenden Kumarasamy: That's a beautiful question, Chris. Yeah. If I'm just thinking about college level Brenden, I would say the main idea that made me realize that first hint was definitely in terms of presentation skills. So a lot of these case competitions are really around the presentation that you deliver back to a panel of executives who are the judges of the competition.
So an example could be, let's say Nike comes up to both of us and says, Chris, Brenden, I'm looking to spend some money to open a new store. But I only have enough money to open it in one of these two locations. Let's say New York city and some part of New York or LA. And they give you all the costs associated to that, the population size, the target market, and they go, cool, run with it.
You have three hours, figure it out and pitch us where we should do this. And really what came out to me, those first couple of times is the conviction in my voice. I was able to present in a way where the judge felt like I was an actual consultant within the business. So I wasn't speaking like a 20 year old. I was speaking like somebody that felt, oh, Brenden is actually a consultant's business.
He really cares about getting the result done. And side note, the reason these case competitions exist, Chris is because the recruitment tool for companies. So a lot of the executives of Nike, they would shop sponsor the case competition. They would watch a bunch of 20 year olds give presentation. And we both know like at that level, like Nike isn't expecting us to find the Holy Grail because they have more data, they have more insights, they have more intuition on what to actually do in the business, but what they're really looking at is who are the all stars? Who are the people in this group who are taking this seriously? So obviously there's some kids who would come up on that stage and go, um, uh, hi everyone. Uh, my name's Brenden and today we're going to, cause they're nervous. They're in front of executives and I was nervous too. Don't get me wrong, but it was through that sheer practice.
That's one piece that I noticed was presentation skills. The second piece was how to fill that gap. So picture me in college, I'm in these study rooms and I'm trying, and a big word, I'm trying, I'm trying to teach these students, but I have no expertise in communication coaching, how to speak like me. And I would say the big idea that I really focused on was what I call the five levels of speech that I probably couldn't articulate when I was college level Brenden, but that I can speak on better now, which are smiling, ums and ahs, vocal tone variety, pacing, and putting it all together. So let's go through these slowly.
So the first one is smiling. So obviously, if you're doing a case competition, and you're going in from an executive and you shake your hand like this, hey, it's great to be here. Yeah, I'm really excited to be here. They don't feel your energy and there's like 15 different schools to present that day. So if you show up like this, like, yeah, you know, really excited to be here. It won't work.
The second level is ums and ahs. So if you're presenting and giving a speech and going, uh, yeah, so yeah, this is our solution. You don't sound that confident when you're communicating. And I tried my best to get rid of ums and ahs with students, but I was a lot more forceful back then. So they would say an um or not, I'd say, stop, do it again.
Do it again, do it again. And that's how I did it initially. But obviously my techniques and my process has improved over time since I was 19. And then the third level is vocal tone variety. So if you talk in the same tone the entire time in the presentation, eventually people start to fall asleep. So you want to dilate and move the way that you communicate. So you're always sounding engaged. And you'll notice that I'm doing this in this interview where I'm moving my tones consistently throughout the podcast. So somebody listening to this is going, I don't know what it is about Brenden's voice, but there's some kind of honey going on there.
And then level four, which is pacing, Chris. The biggest mistake around pace is a lot of people speak too quickly when they talk. So let's say they're giving a presentation, they're going, This is my solution, and this is the result that we're trying to get, and it doesn't really work. Whereas in our case, what we teach people to do is to vary pace a little bit. Talk a little faster, talk a little slower on the most important points, and then put it all together.
Chris Do: Okay, I have this question because we've had communication experts and teachers on the show before. There is a way in that the way they speak, it feels affected. So I have a question for you. What does Brenden sound like when the cameras are off and the mics are down and we're sitting across each other? What is, dare I say, the real Brenden sound like?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, it's a great point.
Chris Do: You talk the same way?
Brenden Kumarasamy: And I love the communication teachers you brought in. And I've learned a lot from them over the years too. You know, for me, Chris, what comes to mind is context. So context means, let's say the camera's off and we're casual.
And you actually saw me on camera. I don't really talk that much. Can I just say, hey, how's it going? I don't want to be too much trouble for people. I'm not super outgoing because the context of that conversation is a little different. It's more, we're just getting to know each other. I just want to listen to you more.
I want to hear, hey, what brought you here today? What's important to you. That's why me and my friend, we're asking you just a lot of questions on a podcast, what happens is the context changes. It changes from just a casual, hey, let's hang out. And obviously don't sound this way. I mean, it sounds very similar, but I don't sound as punchy.
I think this is the right word is that when you're on a podcast now it flips. And I, and I think you, you know, this a lot since you've been creating content for a while is this idea of responsibility. So when we're speaking on a podcast, now, a lot of people are listening to us. And a lot of people doesn't mean 10, 000.
It doesn't mean a hundred. It could be seven people. It could be five people, it could be 20 people, and we have a responsibility to communicate in a way that gets people to A, listen to our ideas, B, take action on our ideas, with the assumption that they're effective and practical, obviously. And number three, share those ideas so that other people can benefit.
So communication all comes down to the context that you're speaking in. So if we're more casual, and I was doing that with a lot of my friends in LA that I was visiting this week before this interview, you know, I'm not really trying super hard to get my five levels of speech, but I might try a little harder if it's the first time I'm meeting that person.
Chris Do: Let's do something being very meta right now.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, go for it.
Chris Do: I want to compare the difference between Brenden, who is a communications professional and expert and a coach, to hey Brenden, we're just having a conversation. I want to see the difference between that person or that context versus like we're just hanging out and talking.
Brenden Kumarasamy: For sure.
Chris Do: What do you sound like then?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah. At that point, Chris, when I'm having a casual conversation with like,
Chris Do: Let's just like right now, let's just have a casual conversation. I'm just curious.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah. When I'm having a casual conversation, well, I don't try to vary my vocal tones as much.
Chris Do: Yes.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Cause then I don't worry.
Chris Do: Just show me, just show me. Don't talk about it. Just show me like, how was your trip out here?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Right. It was really nice. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. Yeah. Just, I came, I took, I took the flight. This was a couple of days ago. I landed Wednesday because, uh, LAX doesn't have a direct flight from Montreal.
Chris Do: For real?
Brenden Kumarasamy: It does, it does. And only
Chris Do: How can that be?
Brenden Kumarasamy: It does, it does. But it doesn't have one on Wednesdays.
Chris Do: Okay.
Brenden Kumarasamy: I have a Wednesdays. It has one like Tuesdays and Sundays, Tuesdays, Sundays, and Fridays, I think. And then I would fly out directly, but I couldn't that day. So what I did is I, as I flew out to my business partners house the day before who lives in Detroit and then we took a flight to LAX the day after.
Chris Do: I'm trying my very best to collapse down the different versions of me that show up. First of all, there's the versions of me that was socialized or conditioned to behave a certain way, because I thought that's how I had to be. Most of those versions have been killed. But then there's these other versions, like, and Tom Ross, who I met, at Creative South in person.
He goes, Chris, there are three versions of you. I'm like, there are? He goes, yeah, they're a little bit different. I said, really? There's the YouTube version of you, there's the onstage version of you, and there's the you in front of me in this cafe here in the South. I'm like, go on. What are the differences?
So I want to pause here for a second and ask our audience to think about this, which is, which one do you predict I will be at the cafe, on stage, and on YouTube? Which one has the highest energy? Which one has the greatest empathy? Which one is a blend of maybe both? I'll let them think about that. I'll tell you the answer in a bit, but I want to get your opinion on it.
Do you feel like there's the Brenden on stage, the Brenden on podcast, and the Brenden in an intimate conversation at a cafe? And where do you think the highest energy version of you is? And why do you think that is?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Wonderful point, Chris. So I'm the same way. I definitely feel there's a different version of Brenden on a podcast and even within podcasting in person versus virtual.
There's also a different version of Brenden too. Same thing on YouTube versus in just a casual conversation. And I definitely feel cause I've been on YouTube since 2019 around that my energy is definitely highest on YouTube because some part of me feels that I should be showing up with more energy.
That's not necessarily accurate by the way, right? Where I'm sharing energy because, and the thought process behind that was when I was watching other communication coaches back then in 2019, I felt they didn't have a lot of energy when they were sharing ideas on speaking. And now I know a lot of those people very well.
They've become friends of mine. So I understand their perspective, which is a lot of them come from very academic backgrounds. There's some exceptions that are coming up the scene in the last few years. But for example, Alex Lyon is a great friend of mine. He's a great example of this. He has a PhD in communication.
He's a faculty professor at a university slash college in America. So a lot of his communication mastery is theoretical. It's based in theory from frameworks or mental models that he's learning while he's pursuing his thesis. So when he's Projecting out that energy on YouTube, it comes across as an academic professor, which is not necessarily a bad thing, right?
That's just the energy that I was chosen in. But when I looked at that and I thought about the people I started mass talk for, which were college kids, essentially, it grew into a business accidentally later. But the main idea behind what I do is how do I create content that is accessible to everybody that 15 years old could watch my stuff and go, you know, Brenden makes a lot of sense.
Like I should be able to do the random word exercise or any of the other exercises I teach in my basement or just with people around them. So I felt initially in my YouTube journey in 2019 that I had to present in high energy. My opinion on that has changed a lot over the years, Chris, where now the first step is I don't judge myself for showing up in different ways.
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing is the place I would start with. And the second piece is if you feel there's a part of you that needs to show up more on social media, just ask yourself the question, which is what is the most comfortable way for you to express that? So for example, let's say on this podcast, I might be a little nervous because the first time we're meeting in person, but when I'm, when we're, since we talked about Billy, when I'm being on a podcast with Billy, I mean, we've interviewed each other 50 times. 60 times. So I'm a lot more casual in that conversation. So if I feel there's a part of my content strategy that isn't really authentic enough or needs to be, then I'll just say, hey, Billy, let's just jump on a podcast together for two hours. And I'm sure you do that a lot with Mo too, right? Where it's just like, oh, let's just bring more casual content.
Cause you have a relationship with him and it becomes more, but I don't judge, I don't, I don't think we should judge ourselves for that, especially for people who are getting started.
Chris Do: I think that's sound advice there. I would say this to answer the question because I created an open loop there, and I'll close it now is, what Tom Ross said to me, he goes, Chris, and this wasn't a surprise to me at the time, but as soon as he said it, I'm like, yeah, duh. He goes, the YouTube version of you is explosive and bombastic. I'm like, And it's the same observations that you have, which was we model ourselves after the people we see.
So we see people like Andrew Kramer from Video Copilot. And he's like, what's up everybody's Andrew Kramer here for Video Copilot. And he puts on his radio voice and then he does his bit and it feels like it's a personality that he adopts. And so you see them and they have lots of videos. I'm like, okay.
And then you see Peter McKinnon what's up everybody. It's like, okay, the big plosives he's, he's dropping it. And so when, when I would go on, this is not my personality at all. I'm the opposite of these guys. Cause I'm super introverted and I would get into the YouTube booth cause we have a recording booth and my team's like, here he goes.
And he's going to change into another person and people freak the f out because I'm like, normally I'm just talking like this. This is how I talk all the time. I get on there and then the music's coming on. I'm like, hey, what's up everybody? Okay, today we're going to do this thing. And I'm like, holy cow, who's this person?
Because we think we need to shock people, pull them in and, kind of disrupt their feed and say, look, you want to pay attention, I want to transfer the kind of energy I have and transmit it through the camera and the internet and the data and then it comes back in zeros and ones and decodes itself in your screen.
That's some of the energy comes through because the last thing I want you to do is to not pay attention. And Tom is sitting in front of me and he's like, but this version of Chris. It's super chill. I was like, of course, if I'm yelling at you across a piece of fried chicken, it's going to be a little bit weird, isn't it? So the context is there.
And then he says, well, the stage version of you somewhere in between, where I can see you be becoming tender and quiet and pensive and thoughtful, and then running up on stage and jumping and doing your thing. And then people are, whoa. He's arrived. And so there it is. I think our experiences are very similar.
But the thing that I noticed, I think that you, you hinted at is you're seeing a lot of content creators now go against the grain. So when everyone's digging, they're zagging. There's a gentleman, he sits in front of a black background. He speaks in a very dulcet tone, very calm, never bombastic. There's no cuts.
It's a single take. And I followed him just for that. I didn't even know what he was talking about. I just wanted to study his speaking style. And so, just to put it out there everybody, there's a style for every single person. Find the one that's right for you. It's like a tailored suit. You want one that fits you and your style and don't worry too much about what other people are doing. Is that fair?
Brenden Kumarasamy: 100%. And to build on that, It's really this idea of communication style, right? That you're referring to, how do you find the right style for you? And to your point, most of communication, the way I teach it anyways, it starts objective and it finishes subjective. So what that means is at the beginning, whether you're more introverted, whether you're more extroverted, the advice is, hey, if you got ums and ahs, you got to get rid of ums and ahs.
It doesn't really matter whether somebody's introverted, extroverted, let's pause a little bit more. Let's not speak too quickly. But at some point you cross the chasm. So you cross the chasm of communication, where you're a pretty decent speaker, and the advice becomes a lot more subjective. Communication style, I would categorize as something more subjective.
And the way that I would help somebody get to that result, is it's more about saying, who are the three speakers that you personally admire the most? And what's interesting about this conversation or that question rather, Chris is your three are going to be different than my three. And then the next question becomes, what is something that you admire about that communicator, but also what is something that you feel?
I don't really like about that person's communication style. But it's not necessarily a weakness. It's just something that you personally feel misaligned it. Let's use a common example here. And I think, you know, where I'm going with this, Gary Vaynerchuk and Seth Godin, right? So if we start with Gary Vaynerchuk, he is someone who's very energetic.
He's on camera. He's like, what's up? Exactly what you said. What's up, everybody. Gary Vaynerchuk in the house. Today, we're going to talk about wine. We're going to talk about this. We're going to talk about that. So when he's speaking that way to some people like me. That's amazing. I love Gary Vee. He's a big inspiration for me why I started creating content all the way back in, let's say, 2018, 2019.
But other people could also look at the same idea of Vaynerchuk and say, I'm not putting my kids near this guy. He is swearing every 10th word. I don't like this person. Et cetera. Let's go to Seth Godin now. So some people like us, I would argue, could look at Seth Godin and say, this guy is such a brilliant thinker.
Whenever he communicates an idea, he just hits the bullseye every time. And the way I describe his speaking style is you always look at Seth Godin speaking. You go, I've thought of it, but I've never thought about it in that way before. That's signature goated, but other people could be looking at the same image and go, you know, Seth Godin doesn't really talk about his life that much.
He's not that vulnerable. He doesn't talk about his family. So what we're talking about here is subjective. So it's personal decisions that we're making for our own communication style. And the result of that for me was I like Gary Vee's energetic style, but I don't wanna use it all the time. I love the way Seth Godin writes books, shares ideas, and I want to use that.
And I try to make my ideas as punchy as possible, but I also sometimes want to talk about my family. I wanna be a little bit more open, more personal reason. And then the third piece, which was Alex Hormozi, and my example, I love the way that Hormozi really hits the nail on the head for every idea he shares on social media.
But sometimes he looks a little bit too serious. So it's important to like, loosen up a little bit more sometimes your communication and that reflection. When we do that for ourselves, we'll lead to the gateway of our style.
The Futur: It's time for a quick break, but we'll be right back.
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The Futur: And we're back. Welcome back to our conversation.
Chris Do: So your speaking style will be modeled as a combination hybrid of several different speakers. From what I'm hearing, you like the way that Seth articulates ideas and there's no argument there. He brilliantly composes sentences and words together that make it feel really profound and clear. They're easy to understand and they're very insightful. You like the energy and the bombastic nature of a Gary Vaynerchuk, plus he's world famous, and he has a big personality. But you want to be a little bit more vulnerable and talk about the things that are going on in your life. You don't want to build up a wall between what's happening in your life and versus what is your teaching. And lastly, it's Alex Hormozi's ability to be really clear and deliver a lesson. Maybe not, why so serious? Right? Something like that.
Brenden Kurmarasamy: Exactly. And the point here is like, it doesn't really matter if our assessment of the speaker is correct or incorrect. It's more about saying, why do we feel this way about that speaker? And that question is what opens the door to our communication style. Kind of like with music, right? Where people like Ed Sheeran grew up on other people's music. They listen to them. Like I like that person's style, but I want to do it my way in this way. And that's where I think what's amazing. Cause there's only one thing that the best speakers on the planet share in common, if I'm being honest, Chris, and that one thing is that they're all uniquely them.
So the key is really to push towards that. And it's not as simple as me giving like, hey, just do this exercise and we'll solve your problems. I can do that for the first couple of balls, going back to that 18 ball analogy I was alluding to earlier. When you get to ball 9 or 10 or 11, now it requires that deeper reflection that takes time.
Chris Do: What are some of the biggest challenges that you see with people who ask for your help and they get stuck at a certain point? Let's try and address those things where, okay, we're transitioning from objective coaching to subjective coaching, and somewhere along there, I'm imagining that they hit the same walls and the same problems, and you're seeing it time and time again. What are some of those things?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, absolutely. So let's start at the beginning, Chris. A lot of people think the number one challenge of public speaking presentations is the fear around speaking. I actually disagree with this idea. So let me start there. I believe that the number one challenge of communication is actually motivation.
I'll tell you why I believe that there's a lot of different things in our life and people are listening to this podcast feel free to think about that as well is write down a list of all of the hard things that you've already accomplished in your life. So this could be immigrating to a new country, getting married, having children, going on a first date, getting a job.
Did we have any fear around doing any of this? Obviously, like I was super scared interviewing for my first job, but why did I do it? Because the motivation of not being broke was much higher than the fear of this. And we could do that with everything. Scared of going on dates. Absolutely. I still need to work on that actually.
But the motivation of saying, hey, I don't want to be alone my whole life. I actually want to have kids. I don't want to start a family. So that motivation pushes us to go up to that person that we're attracted to and say, hey, do you want to go on a date? Right. But in communication, we have the fear. Yeah.
But if I ask this question, Hey, how would your life change? If you're an exceptional communicator? No one has a great answer to that question, Chris. No one's really thinks about it in that way. They go, oh, well, I've not really thought of it. Like I've never thought of if my life was a better speaker. So there's fear there, but there isn't motivation.
And that's the way that we think about it. So my first step always, and they won't have the perfect answer. It's more to move their mind in the right direction. If you became a lot more effective as a speaker, how would your life better get better? And then find a reason that is exciting for you because it doesn't need to be I want to grow my business. I want to make an extra million dollars a year. That's great. These are all awesome goals, but it could also be being a better father or mother for your children. It could be making new friends. And it's about us to find that reason that then pushes us to do all of the hard things like doing the random word exercises.
It's simple, right? It's just like take a hundred words, do a hundred different presentations. But the reason people don't push through it is because their motive is not greater than the fear.
Chris Do: Is there anything else in terms of what gets people stuck?
Brenden Kurmarasamy: Yeah, that's one. The second piece I would argue is consistency like any other skill. And the way that we become consistent, and this is the way I've structured communication teaching, is to try and make it easy and practical for people as possible. So let's say we, and I'm happy to share the other two exercises, let's say we start with R, right, the random word exercise. Take a word like shoe and you create a random presentation out of thin air.
So a lot of people don't do it. They just go, oh, I'm really scared. Like, what if I don't say the right things? But if I don't communicate it the right way, so what's the easy version of that? The easy version of this is do this with people in your family. You don't have to do this in front of a thousand people.
You could do this alone in the shower. Everyone showers every day. Hopefully. Right. You could do it in the shower, right? Yeah. Sometimes, you know, it's offense. That's all the people when you're walking your dog and then you build up that confidence over time. And that's why my recommendation for someone who can't afford a communication coach is to do something like Toastmasters.
It's like 10 bucks a month. You can find a local club in your area. You can meet people who are like minded and say, hey, somebody told me about the random word exercise. Let's practice that together. And it's that accountability that breeds consistency, right? That's number one. And I'll give you another exercise. Like the question drill. Because every exercise I teach comes from a problem I used to have, right? And the problem I had five years ago was I sucked at podcasts. I was really bad at being interviewed. And the first couple of shows, because I was really young when I started guesting, I was probably 22 or something.
And some guy asked me on a podcast, hey Brenden, where does the fear of communication come from? And I looked at the guy, Chris, and I was like, Uh, I don't know, dude, Tokyo? Like, you tell me. I don't know where this fear comes from. And I was really embarrassed when I didn't do a good job on that podcast. So every single day, I just answered one question that I thought somebody would ask me on my expertise.
So day one was, hey, what's your vision for MasterTalk? Day two is what tips do you have for introverts? But if you do that every day for five minutes with a brand new question, you'll be really good at answering questions. And that's something else that people can do in groups and create that consistency.
Chris Do: Wonderful. There are friends of ours that aspire to be public figures, to speak on stages, and the thing that scares most people isn't the prepared talk, it's the unprepared talk. When there's a Q& A and a panel and people panic. For me, that's my jam. I don't want to do the prepared talk. I just want to do fireside, AMAs, let's rock and roll.
But I realize that's a difficult thing for a lot of people. So let's say you're, not a fresh graduate, but you're 10, 15 years into your life experience, your business, whatever it is that you're doing, you have some subject domain expertise, something like that. What is the structure of how you might answer a question that you are hearing for the very first time?
Go super slow for me, go super meta. And say, if I throw out a question for you about, okay, I'm going to do it right now. Talk to me about the luxury fashion brands and what you know about them.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Luxury fashion brands and what I know about them?
Chris Do: I'm going to assume that you don't know that much. I'm just, I'm trying to figure out something weird. I just throw at you randomly. Something I might know a little bit about so that we can have a conversation. So I'm going to throw you a random thing. Is that random enough? Is that okay?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, it's pretty random. I don't know.
Chris Do: This is not the stage, uh, DMing where I'm like, let me set him up so he's going to be a genius. So we'll work through this. Sure. Okay.
Brenden Kumarasamy: So the first step in how I would approach that question is I would just talk about what I do know and I would start the conversation. So I would say something like this is what I know about fashion brands. I might tell a story in this case. I don't really know that much about fashion brands.
So I'll talk about, you know, there's Louis Vuitton, there's Hermes. And then what I'll do part two is I'll try and draw a link between what I'm saying and try and create a lesson. So it's valuable for the person who's listening to me. And then, you know, when I'm thinking about personal luxury brands, you know, the first thought that comes to mind, Chris, is that, you know, some of these brands are a little bit more expensive than meat style.
Like you have brands like Louis Vuitton, that might be really expensive, but the quality of the cloth isn't that great. And then you have situations like with Laura Piana, where it's very, very high end. Some people would argue that it's worth the money. And then the third part of that would be looking at what is the actual intention behind the question.
So that's one way of answering it. Another way of answering it, if you're not in a panel situation, is to take your time, or you can just pause for a few seconds and you think about the answer. And the third one is if you just don't know the answer, you can just be honest about it. But what I found, especially with people in client services, Chris, is there's a difference between I don't know and I don't know.
So what do I mean by that? So the first I don't know is. uh, I don't know, but I'll get back to you. And the second, I don't know is I don't know, but I'll get back to you. So they're both saying, I don't know, but the first person is communicating a lack of credibility and confidence. Whereas the second person is going, that person doesn't know, but I'm confident they'll find the answer. So I hope that that answers your question.
Chris Do: I like the meta breakdown, but I also want you to answer the question.
Brenden Kumarasamy: The question?
Chris Do: Yeah.
Brenden Kumarasamy: So you to go in there?
Chris Do: Yeah, I just want to see how you would talk about it because it's leading me to another question here, which is, this is a perfect thing. So I, I lucked out. I asked you a question that you may not know that much about. So I want to see how your brain works. Okay. So what is your take on, Luxury brands and why people covet them or why people are compelled to buy them.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, for sure. So my thought on luxury brands, Chris, is it's all about value. Remember some guy told me, Christian Mickelson, he says it doesn't matter what you charge or what you value. Someone is going to look at it and say, this is worth it to me. And somebody else is going to say, this is not worth it to me. Whether you charge a dollar for the thing or a hundred thousand dollars for the thing. So when we look at luxury brands, the reason why people buy those brands, whether it's Hermes, whether it's Louis Vuitton, whether it's Sacks is because they see something in those brands that other people don't value as much.
So one of those could be status, right? They're in a community of high net worth individuals. And if you don't have that, that luxury brand, you don't have that. It's a symbol of status. And that person might go, oh, this person doesn't belong in the community. The second piece going back to status is this idea of belonging, right?
So the rules of every hierarchy is different. So if you're just living like in an, you know, middle class home, it's not an expectation for you to have all of these things, though some people do. So they show higher levels of status in those communities. But if you're in the higher status, it becomes a mandatory piece if you have a little bit less self esteem, et cetera.
And the third one is just people like it. You know, some people genuinely, like with cars, like with fancy cars that I probably don't see myself buying, but they see a value in those cars or in those brands that we don't. And that's the way I would think about it.
Chris Do: So here's the thing. As I'm trying to help some of my friends here, I'm channeling them in this moment. Where does it become answering a question and just, I don't know how else to say it, it's like a lot of hot air. There's a lot of movement in the mouth and it's a word salad-y thing. And if we were to look at the transcript later, we scratch our heads and say, What the heck did he just say? How did my life improve?
That was not a Seth Godin truth bomb. Do we continue to forge ahead outside of the context of an exercise and putting you on the spot? Or do we just pause and say, I don't know, you tell me.
Brenden Kumarasamy: So here's the way I would approach it. So there's two types of questions you get asked. So let's look at it from a, just from a matrix. Cause like you said, this is what I'm excited about. This is what I nerd out over. And I'm glad you're putting him on the spot because it's those systems that are missing in speaking. We will just talk about communication, but we don't get better. Here's the frame that I didn't like in the way that you started with this.
And the frame I didn't like is you started with unprepared questions, which I think is wrong. And the reason I think that's wrong is because wait a second, Chris, if you're an expert, you're a consultant, are you being asked a different question every single day, 80 percent of the time? Come on. Like when you're on a podcast, you're getting asked the same set of questions almost all the time.
Hey, how did you get started? What was your journey like? So for people who are getting started in their journey, whether they're scared of being on a podcast the first time, or it's their first panel, or they'd be on a YouTube, the advice is not even to touch unprepared questions. The first step is, did you do the 80 percent of the work first?
And the 80 percent of the work is the work that I did five, six years ago. And I'm still working on obviously, which is wait a second. What are the questions that, you know, for sure you're going to get and are you comfortable answering those questions? So when somebody, whether it's a client or, and I'm glad you're doing it as a podcast, so it's fun.
Cause I don't get to share that on podcasts a lot. They'll go like, okay, how do I prepare for unprepared? Wait a second. Do you know the answer to these standard 10 things? And the answer is almost always no. And that's where the conversation starts. And I'm a great example of this. Obviously I'm not the oldest communication expert you've interviewed on this podcast.
I'm probably the youngest, right? So how did I develop that expertise so quickly in the industry? Well, the first three years, literally Chris I would be in a room, in like a classroom at the time, and five of my most vicious friends, like, and I'm using the word vicious intentionally, from a good place. So they're saying, you know what, I'm gonna pretend to be an executive, and I'm going to poke every hole possible in your game, until you wet your pants.
So the first one is going to be, hey, Brenden, okay first of all, what do you know about communication? I'm not 22 anymore, but at the time I've been working at the company longer than you've been alive. What do you know about speaking? So it's like, how do I answer that? Okay. How do I approach that conversation?
And then the second one was, hey, Brenden. Okay, cool. Uh, talk about pacing a little bit. So you're talking to speaking faster, slower, but like if I speak slower, so they would barrage me. I call this a question barrage. They would barrage me with a ton of questions that I didn't know the answer to, but here's the best part. That's a safe environment. So every time I didn't know the answer to that question, I would just go, you know, Chris, let's say you were one of the guys in the classroom. I'd go, you know, that's a really good question. How would you approach that question? And I would just listen to you. And then you would say, well, actually, Brenden, I would approach it that way.
I like it. Let me use that. And then I might cry. I might say like, oh, Chris told me that or something like that. That's 80 percent of the work. Then the other 20 percent of the work, unfortunately, there's no silver bullet in figuring that out. The way you fix that 20 percent is you start by going, you have just do foundation.
I don't know if you've heard this quote, but there's a quote where I forgot who said it was like some Navy seal where it's like, you don't rise up to the level of your potential. You always default to the level of your training. So if you've done a lot of questions, you've done a lot of random word exercises. You're still a little nervous. But you're less nervous than you normally would be. And you can handle those unprepared questions with more grace.
Chris Do: I want to ask you a question. Since we have shared history on Clubhouse, it's actually where I heard you and Billy for the first time. And we've had conversations there. We would drop into each other's rooms and it was wonderful. And it's kind of neat that a couple of years later, we're here in person kind of closing that loop. But I was asked this question and Mo and I was talking, Mo and I were talking about this right before we got here. I'm going to ask you the question that I was asked in an open AMA thing to see how you would respond. So just respond the way that you would naturally respond as if we're on Clubhouse. And then I'll ask you some follow up questions about what's going on in your mind. Cause I just want to compare notes. It's not that often that I get to sit down and talk to a person who teaches people how to be a better communicator and is a practice person who's thought about this.
Clearly you have different exercises and frameworks. So here we go. Somebody stepped up on stage. Got the mic and said, hey, Chris, so I'm gonna say, hey, Brenden, I need your help. I'm really frustrated because when I work with my clients, it takes months of work, and I give them guidelines for how to do their, their communications, their, their comms team, their marketing departments. And as soon as I deliver the project and I stop monitoring it, they start going off the rails. It's very frustrating for me 'cause we do all this good work. How do I prevent them from doing that? That's the question.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely. So just to make sure I got that question, so there's a person who's doing communications work for a company and the communications could be around, let's say they're talking about the next quarterly results or just the A town hall meeting.
Chris Do: Just say, yeah, let's say it's marcomms marketing communications and they create guidelines. It's very similar to someone who's an identity designer who creates brand guidelines. And then they're using the wrong colors, they're using the wrong typeface, and they're like, ugh, what's going on? So that's the kind of thing that I can recall that question.
Brenden Kumarasamy: So the direct way of answering that question is to see who was informed of the communication and how is that communication retained? So an example could be, let's say you're training an employee, right? And you ask them, You tell them to do something and they often don't do it as well as you wanted them to.
The mistake was on the employee. It was the system that creates the problem. So the first part of that would be in that exam, then I'll go back to communications and it probably will be the similar answer. That's why I was asking you context around like what kind of communication
Chris Do: just pretend like you're on the call with me right now. And I'm that person asking that question,
Brenden Kumarasamy: but I would use analogies too.
Chris Do: Sure. Use whatever you want.
Brenden Kumarasamy: So the, the employee would start with you teach it first, and then you have them repeat what they understood. And then based on what they repeat, you have a good idea if they got it or not. So let's say I'm teaching an employee a concept or a form of communication.
Let's say it's something I want them to do. I'll say, hey, these are the three things I want you. In your words, how would you describe the work that I just gave you? And I would just say, how do, what do you think? I just want to get your thoughts on this. They go, okay. Just to make sure I got it. This, this, this, and then usually they'll make a mistake and I'll say, hey, these two points, that was really good, but just this third point, just want to make sure we got this correctly. And then I'll have them demonstrate it. That's the way I would do it in this situation. So going back to your question around communication and brand, I'm sure there's a way of conveying that same idea, but it depends on the context of the speaking. So let's say it's a town hall meeting, right? In a town hall meeting, that's easy to fix because there's a specific framework.
It's like, okay, celebrate the wins, tell everyone on the team, they did a great job. Give specific highlights, talk about some of the challenges and remind people of the vision. So there's a system that I'm creating like on the spot for this town hall meeting. So then at the end, let's say there was a mess up between the client and the comms.
What I would encourage the person who asked the question to do as well is to actually watch the town hall. And go, did they do those five steps or which parts of the five steps were not really well understood. And then when the gap is clear, ideally you practice it beforehand, but we know that doesn't really apply in corporate people are busy.
So it won't work is at the end. Then we go, hey, step two and four, hey, you celebrated really well. But you didn't talk about the challenges related to that town hall. So that's the way that I would fix it in general. But then obviously I would need more help as to like what, maybe I missed the ball on the communication you were referring to, but that's the one I see a lot in the corporate world.
Chris Do: Love it. Thanks for playing along and doing that. I appreciate that you have a totally different approach to answering that question the way I did. I also didn't know the framework for how to do town hall. I apologize to everyone that's ever been part of my town halls.
Brenden Kumarasamy: How did you,
Chris Do: I messed up.
Brenden Kumarasamy: How did you answer the question?
Chris Do: Oh, how would I answer it? I'll tell you a little bit. Yeah, yeah. So my secret to answering questions is I assume the person does not know how to articulate their question, that they've not diagnosed the problem carefully, and then therefore they're asking a question that may not be true. So the very first thing I ask myself, is this question the right question to answer?
Because I always get this part wrong, but there's the quote that says, there are no right answers to wrong questions. My assumption is every question is wrong, and until I can prove it in my mind that it's the correct question, I refuse to answer it. I also do not answer fake questions, like somebody will talk about something and then say, what do you think?
I think lots of things, but what is it that you want to know? I've learned through my marriage, through therapy, counseling, that you need to make sure that what you're doing is going to be perceived as helpful. See you asking me for my thoughts. And how I want to answer that may not be helpful to you at all.
And in fact, I have decades of answering the wrong question and making people feel really hurt and sad. and criticized and not seen. So now I want to make sure, do I understand the question? Is it a real question? And what kind of answer are you looking for me so that I can give you what I think is helpful?
Otherwise I don't want to answer it. So usually those are the kinds of things I go through. So it turns out in my opinion, the question is a fake question. Not that they tried to trap me. It's not a real question because the question is once I've delivered on a job, And I've lost control over it, even though I'm no longer hired to control it.
How do I reassert my control and make sure the words, my mandates are followed to the end of time? So to me, that's a problem. It's a control issue, and if you have a control issue, then let's address that. It's not that there's a comms problem or a brand identity guideline problem. You were paid, they were grateful, you were happy.
Why would you get upset beyond that? So that's why I say, I don't think it's a real question. And in fact, cause this is my game. I'm not a communications expert. I'm a F up your mind expert. So when people ask me questions, I just assume you don't know what you're talking about, but I don't handle it with that kind of heat.
I just process it. I'm like, okay, what's going on? What is the real problem? And what is it you really need from me at this point? And so a lot of times I think what happens in my space, because I'm more of a business coach than I am a communications coach, that's my wheelhouse. I just think if I can address the root problem, all the other things go away.
There's a book, it's written by Gary Keller, it's called The One Thing. Have you read this book?
Brenden Kumarasamy: I've read some chapters of the book. I'm not that great of a reader, but I've read a few.
Chris Do: Okay, that's fine. If you've read enough of it, I think you've read all of it, because it really goes on and on about the one thing, but there's a beautiful question in it, which is the foundation of the one thing, which is this question. What is the one thing that you can do such that by doing all the other problems become easier or unnecessary, or all the other things that you need to do become easier or unnecessary? And so when I hear a question, I think to myself, What is the one way I can answer that, that this ends now? So there's a story and I believe it's historical.
There's something called the Gordian Knot. And they said that whoever can untie the knot will rule us. Okay. So some wise person made the most complex knot and many people have tried to untie it. Alexander the Great walks up to it. He pulls out his sword and just cuts it. And everybody's like, Oh my God, you cheated.
He goes, no, I untied the knot. It's no longer tied. I will rule. You know, he winds up ruling. And so I'm looking for my Gordian Knot. What is the single stroke that I can make in the most efficient way such that all your other problems go away and you have no more questions because otherwise we kind of chase each other around like a dog chasing its tail. That's my theory on that. You have any thoughts on that?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely, Chris. And I completely agree with that frame in the context of business coaching. You're absolutely right. Because somebody will come up with a specific problem and they're trying to grow their business, let's say under that frame. And then you're kind of looking at them and you're going, hey, when was the last time you had a sales call?
Like, are you getting lead gen? Like, are you getting leads through the door? Are you talking to them? Do you understand what you're selling to them? And there's a core issue that needs to be fixed. Whereas the argument I'll make with speaking is that in communication yeah, sometimes there's one thing, but I would argue oftentimes it's not.
And, and you'll, you saw that today where I was kind of, even, I wasn't necessarily dodging the question. It's just like, there's no, sometimes there's no direct answer that satisfies my own curiosity. It's not, oh, this is the, the thing, the way you approach it, like with the questions, it's like, no, Chris, like we can't just jump into unfit. We have to structure it this way. And that's the, that's the game I play in speaking.
Chris Do: Okay. You mentioned this several times that there are a couple of exercises that you can do. I think you mentioned three. If I'm paying attention, the first one is the random word game, which is pick a random word and give a 60 second presentation without any preparation and practice this over and over again.
If I'm paying attention, the second one is about the question drill. Okay. Cool. There are the prepared questions that you better show up prepared for. And if you can do that, that'll cover you from 80 plus percentage of the questions that you're going to get. And you say this, and it's my observation as well, anecdotally speaking, that most people don't even do that work. So they show up, they know they're going to get asked these questions and they just fumble their way through it. And there's not a lot of insight or takeaways.
Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, that's my third one for RQV. So quick point I'll mention on Q, Chris, is there's three different ways people can practice this. So the first one is for people who are employees right now, it would be job interviews.
So take a job interview question, like, tell me about yourself, and just practice and answer it better. Just doing that legwork without any feedback, honestly, will just make you better because you're just practicing it more. The second scenario this works really well in is sales calls. You know, we're all getting asked the same questions from different prospects.
And if we take a step back and write them down, I'm sure a lot of our sales calls are recorded now with new software, I use Fathom or something, and then you just rewatch the sales call and you write down, or you can get a VA to just watch it and just send you the questions. You can answer that every day.
And the third one that I really like is podcast interviews. You know, a lot of people that I speak to, they're really fearful of doing something like this. Like being a guest or hosting a show. And my advice that I wish I'd implemented even sooner than I did, was why wait for somebody to pick you? Just pick a friend.
Doesn't matter. You don't even have to record it. You don't have to release it. Pick a friend and ask them questions. And that's what I did when I started. My friend wanted to interview me on his podcast. There was like three listeners. I just started mass. I didn't really know that much about speaking back then.
But that muscle changed my identity. It made me go from I shouldn't be interviewing on podcasts. And I'm sure a lot of people are feeling that way to oh, actually that one thing that I shared that was valuable and I can practice them. And it's this idea of permission culture. Seth Godin talks a lot about this.
We're always asking for permission. Oh, let's do this. Pick me, right? Pick me culture versus going, let's pick ourselves and just have that interview and get that ball rolling. So those are the three frames that I coached it. And then the third one is V. So that's RQV and V stands for the video message. Pick somebody in your life, it could be significant other, a business partner, a client that you adore, an employee that's doing really good work, and send them a 20 second video message, just putting your hand on your heart and just saying, hey, this is something I really appreciate about you, you're amazing, thanks so much for being in my life, and you can do any version of that, but there's one rule that I always like to teach, and the rule is, you are not allowed to retake the video under any circumstances.
So whatever you make is what you send. And I have a little bonus tip on this that I use called BVMs, which is the birthday video message. What I'll do with around a hundred people in my life every year, it could be a business partner, a good friend of mine, a cool relationship in my life, a friend, family member is on their birthday, Chris. I'm not making this up on their birthday. I take a birthday hat that I bought from Amazon. It's like 12, 15 bucks put on my head. And then I open my camera and I go, guess whose birthday it is today. It's yours. Happy birthday. Have a great day. And my employees love that. My team members love that my business partners love it. My family loves it. And it doesn't even sound that great. I do ums and ahs. I make a lot of the mistakes, but people appreciate it. And that's, that's RQV.
Beautiful.
Chris Do: I love that. You sent me a video birthday video message, right? Yeah. Okay. Wonderful. I was like,
Brenden Kumarasamy: I think I think I did.
Chris Do: I feel like you did as soon as you said that. Like, I think you sent me one. And I have to say, we could not be more different than that. I don't care about my birthday. I don't care about your birthday. It's just another day. I'm glad you're alive every single day, not just on one day. So I didn't even do anything for my children or my wife. Right.
Brenden Kumarasamy: And you know, what's funny about that? I don't care about birthdays. But other people do. That's the most important thing, right? Like one of my employees, she lives in India, right? She really cares about her birthday. So when I sent her that birthday video, it's not about me. Some of it's about me. Let's not kid ourselves. Some of it's about me, but most of it's about them.
And she responded back saying, you know, Brenden, you made my birthday even more special. And it took me 20 seconds, Chris. And that's really the key. The point of the RQV and all this conversation we're having is people can look at that and say, I could do this tomorrow. I could do the random words. And I get texts like that all the time.
Like people are sending me pictures. I'm in the car with my kids. I just did the random word exercise with my children. They're so much better at speaking now. Question drills. So hey, I started like writing down those questions, answering video message. You know, Brenden, my grandparents live on the other side of the country.
Haven't talked to them in six months. I just sent them a video message. Took me 20 seconds and it made their day. And that's really the mission I have is how do we make this. more enjoyable, more practical, more fun for the world.
Chris Do: I've enjoyed our conversation. I think you gave us a lot of practical tips. I'm going to ask you in a second to tell us how people get in touch with you, how they can go deeper down the rabbit hole, but I want to tease our audience. There's a couple of things that really set me off mentally. I have low tolerance for incompetence and ignorance and I am allergic to weak thinking, like weak minded thinking, and I don't want to enable that.
So if you're around me and you're like, can you just do this for me? I'm like, no, because it's going to enable you. So this idea that I'm going to do something that I don't think is good because somebody else wants it, It goes against my nature. I think Mo and I are going to talk about it on the next episode.
So stick around if you want to hear about my take on that. And I'm sure it's trigger warning. You guys are going to probably be really upset at me, but we'll go there. So Brenden, I've enjoyed our conversation. I noticed one thing I was just going to ask you really quickly. You've said my name more than anybody's ever said on a podcast ever. Is that part of the training?
Brenden Kumarasamy: That is part of the training. Dill Carnegie says the, the sound of one's name is the sweetest sound to somebody's ear, though it might not be the case for you.
Chris Do: I don't think it is.
Brenden Kumarasamy: But for, for most people, that is the case and you always optimize for the majority. So yeah. A lot of people appreciate it.
Chris Do: I noticed that. Yeah. I also don't feel that way because I can never remember anybody's name. So it works for me. It fits my worldview. Okay. So if people want to find out more about you, where should we send them to?
Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely. This is great. Thanks for having me on the show. The easiest way to keep in touch is Instagram. So you can just follow my handle, which is masteryourtalk. And that's Y O U R. And you can just send me a DM and let me know what you thought of the show and I'll send a voice note. I am Brenden Kumarasamy and you're listening to The Futur Podcast.
The Futur: Thanks for joining us. If you haven't already subscribe to our show on your favorite podcasting app and get new insightful episodes from us every week, The Futur Podcast is hosted by Chris Do and produced and edited by Rich Cardona Media. Thank you to Adam Sanborn for our intro music. If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor by reviewing and rating our show on Apple Podcasts.
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