Jose Gomez is the Executive Creative Director of Dallas based design agency, ATK PLN. He’s won an Emmy, built a skateboard brand as a teenager and continues to push the envelope in the worlds of motion design and live action.

This episode is full of great stories about the triumphs and tribulations of running a creative business in the advertising world. He and Chris swap stories about pitching ideas, working with nightmare clients and discuss how to take a loss and learn from it—even when it costs you $45K.

But it's not all war stories. Listen hard enough and you might pick up a few new tools to use in your own creative business.

ATK PLN is a creative design agency working at the intersection of entertainment marketing and commercial production. Funny enough, ATK PLN and Blind, Chris’s motion design studio turned brand strategy consultancy, pitched for the same projects back in the day.

Over the years, Jose and the team at ATK PLN have secured over a 50% win ratio on pitches, making them a highly successful studio. Looking back, Jose shares the secret to their success has been multi-layered.

The first: listening. “Really, really listening,” as Jose puts it. Understanding someone’s intent behind their words, not just the words themselves, has been pivotal in how Jose’s run his studio. When a client is speaking, for example, Jose encourages his team to poke and prod them to reveal more information than they’re trying to give.

In fact, not listening was what cost Jose’s studio the opportunity to create the show titles for the Emmy-winning hit series, Mad Men. Yeah, you know that one.

If you’re curious about how the world of motion has transformed over the years, and want to hear the full scoop from two industry veterans, this episode is a real treat.