Richard Moore:

Statistically, every post you will ever do is seen by more people who don't know you, than who do know you. There's no way that if I get 40,000 views on a carousel, there's no way these people all know me. So what it does is, it grounds us in earning the right every single time, and not being entitled or feeling like people are just going to show up for us.

Chris Do:

You talked about this and it's a new term that I've not heard before, which is a call to feel, and the mic drop moment. Can you give me an example of a mic drop moment or two?

Richard Moore:

It's almost a bit of a Hollywood line, maybe that's a good way to put it. It's like a one-liner. Usually the sentence won't have any caveats in it, Chris. It'd be like 10 words or something, I'm going to try and find one in one of my posts right now, it might be a good idea. But yeah, so it's a kind of a Hollywood line that brings everything together and is profound. So for instance, three days ago I did a post and I ended simply with six words in a singular line with line breaks around it, and it was, "Appearing successful doesn't mean you are." Now, you can probably tell what the whole of the rest of the post was about that, which is a good mic drop. And a mic drop line is one that summarizes it and brings it all together. And what you've got to map back from, is the audience feeling, "Yes, that's yeah... That's the way to say, oh yeah. I totally think, yeah, that's the sentiment I'm after."

So yeah, there was one I wrote, appearing successful doesn't mean you are. It's not world-class mic drop all the time, but things like that tend to bring... I do my best, but what it tends to do is, that makes people stop and think. And I just think that's a really valuable way to do it rather than always saying, I mean the worst would be something like, "Like, comment, and share below," or even a question, "What would you add?" I mean there's nothing wrong with it, and I'm constantly switching it. There's another one I did four days ago. Your skills and expertise are what set you apart and make you an asset. And then I drop down to the next line. So now it's time to own it. Can you see I'm ending with that full stop?

It's a statement, like here's the end of the sermon kind of thing. And it's this big kind of blockbuster moment. And that mic drop really helps this call to feel. I need to credit Ash Rathod, a mutual friend of ours, I heard the phrase from him first. But that call to feel is about making people feel, "Yes, that's exactly it. They're the words I was looking for, because that's how I view it." And what that does is bring that audience just a step closer in that sense of they're relating to you. They feel like you get them that much more. And it's a really powerful moment when you get it right. It's just an experiment thing. Just keep practicing with it. But I think it's good to punctuate your content with calls to action, but also with calls to feel, and just see what works. And I do find sometimes the call to feel posts really perform well in terms of gathering a larger number of people around to really engage in that content, because that helps them the following posts the next day. I have this kind of momentum behind me and maybe I can be a little bit more on the nose with even a more commercially led call to action at the end.

Chris Do:

That was excellent. Thank you very much. So the call to feel your mic drop moment is this emphatic conclusion that might be charging or polarizing to people. Now I feel like I got to write a response, "You're right, I'm so inspired," or, "No, I hate this." And you're provoking a response or you're like chumming the water with bait, so the sharks come in, right? It's a quotable quote. It might be some tweet like moment where everybody's like, "That's it. You summarize the whole thing up."

Richard Moore:

Exactly. Yeah, a tweet like moment's a really good way of putting it. And I often use the word reframe and I think it's noticeable that, when you do a post that kind of shares common sense like tactics, or how to ideas, and it's like, yeah, but everyone else says the same kind of thing. All you're doing when you do that is, you're playing safe and you get this false positive of a bunch of likes, and people going, "Yeah, good point, well done."

But you are squarely putting yourself right in the center of everyone else, just like everyone else. But when you reframe it and say, "But have you looked at it this way?" Or, "But here's the blind spot. Here's the thing, the revision, or the evolution on that mainstream idea that you hadn't considered," people now see you as someone who thinks higher, and that massively correlates with a peak of profile views.

It's so wonderful to be able to, you can see posts doing well, not just in the number of views and comments. You see posts doing well, because you get a spike of profile views, because the natural inclination of the average human who doesn't know you, is to see that post and go, "Wow, that was good. Who's this guy?" And I really want to add this crucial footnote, which is statistically every post you will ever do is seen by more people who don't know you than who do know you. So you have a bunch of your first connections and some people who might be slightly aware of you, but there's no way that if I get 40,000 views on a carousel, there's no way these people all know me. So it's just those first people that do know me are helping to propagate that post to many others.

So when I remember that, it means two things. Firstly, it means that when I'm writing a post, I have to be aware that people who don't know me are going to be potentially seeing me for the first time. And that's exhilarating, but it also carries this responsibility of making sure I'm not too familiar, or writing in jokes for just the circle of 15 people who know me well, because statistically it's many more who won't know me who'll see it. But also, it's really powerful to do this, because if I think about it, I've got loads of people who don't know me seeing me for the first time, and they might just scroll by, because they don't think to themselves, "Oh my god, cool, Richard Moore just posted." They don't know who the hell I am. So what it does is it grounds us in earning the right every single time, and not being entitled, or feeling like people are just going to show up for us.

Although there is a tactic I can explain if you want me to now, that can really help this by the way. So on YouTube we have the bell. I think you have the bell, don't you, Chris, where people can subscribe? But there's also the bell for notification when your video goes live or something, if I'm right?

Chris Do:

Yes.

Richard Moore:

So they've borrowed that and brought this over to LinkedIn now. So on everyone's profile, if you put yourself in creator mode, you have a bell. And people can hit the bell, and if they're online, what happens is the moment you post, people will be sent, they'll be sent a notification saying, "Richard's just posted." So one tactic I've been doing for probably a year now, or getting on for a year is saying, at the end of posts, a little PS, if you like this content, go to my profile here, and I have an arrow symbol, and I tag myself, I'm removing all friction, so they can literally just click on me from the post and go straight to my profile, and hit the bell, and you'll see my content as it's posted.

So what that does is, it means the people who are the super fans, they can now essentially subscribe to my content. Tomorrow morning when I post, or let's even take this morning when I post, I knew for a fact that when I posted the same bunch of people would jump in straight away and go, "Oh cool, Richard's posted. What is he up to today?" So by popping that message in quite regularly, I'm constantly harvesting views and converting them into subscriptions essentially of my content. And those superfans show up early to support the post. And just like all the other platforms, if you get early comments, that gives that post velocity and really gives it helps it algorithmically get a lot more reach.

So there's a little hat and it's beautiful, it works so well. So we're saying if you want more of this, here's where you go and you can see my posts as they come out. And there's a really nice benefit for the people who write a comment when they're writing comment early, is that their comments get seen by the most people who are viewing these pieces of content. So it's just really essential to get these calls to action right, and just think to yourself, you're not just writing for people who know you, you're writing for people who don't know you. So what do you have to say? And in a world full of content where people scroll through 300 feet of content every day, what are you going to do that makes them think, "Well, that's different."

Chris Do:

All right, I have another question for you. Thanks for explaining that part. A lot of strategies here that you're sharing. There's another person, I'm spacing on his name right now, I should know it. But what he does is, he uses commenting as a strategy to grow your following on LinkedIn. So there's a benefit to you turning that bell, and engaging early, and posting something thoughtful, so that other people that Richard brings into his orbit see your content, and then they click on your profile, and that's another way for you to trigger a response, and then follow up with people. Now you said this, and I think you very diplomatically navigated this, where you're teaching people tangibly, you're helping others versus the sentimental types of content. And you said, "I'll leave it like that." Let's not beat around the bush. What are you talking about?

Richard Moore:

Yeah, I don't have to be too careful. Basically fluff, they have a term now, fluffpreneurs, basically. People who post fluff that's like, "Oh, woe is me. I missed the eye today because hey, life's been hard, and I failed eight times this year." And it's like, yeah, okay, fine. It's another post about how you failed.

And the thing is it does work, and it's good, and the personal brand people are like, "Hey man, you've got to talk about your fails, as well." And sure, that makes us show our vulnerability and so on. But what LinkedIn is probably saying here, it's like let's not overdo the fluff. Sure, but what's the lesson? Come on. And I think it's a response to, everyone knows what I'm talking about, this pure unbridled fluff for the sake of it. Just because you're crying doesn't mean you should take a selfie and post it kind of thing. And I think that's good, because it means we are diminishing the reach of posts that if we are real with ourselves on as constructive, is certainly in the context of a B2B platform like this, as ones that, using their words, are tangibly helping others.

Chris Do:

I see, that makes a lot of sense. So no pity party here. If you're going to tell a story and be vulnerable, make sure there's a point to your story. Because yes, you'll stir up the emotions, you're angry about something, you're sad about something, and people will engage, because things that elicit emotional response will get engagement. But I think LinkedIn wants to be different, they want to be the platform to help you achieve your goals, and it's about transformation. This is just content rule 101. You want to help people achieve what they want in life. There's something that's getting in their way. If you could do something to tangibly help them, you've built a relationship with people, you've positioned yourself as an expert, or someone to follow, or talk to, or potentially hire, or given an opportunity to. And you talked about you want to share your insights, and you could do inspiration, but you want to be able to teach people something so that you improve their lives. And if you can do that, you're doing something great for yourself.

Richard Moore:

Yeah. And I must add, LinkedIn has recently come out with research on this, and what it said is that first connections, so these are the people who are directly connected with me, that is the smallest group of people, although they're the ones who think most fondly of me. First connections do tend to like the personal stories and the anecdotes. If you look at Instagram, you can see the first connections love the stories, they religiously follow them, because it's the behind the scenes part, and they know you, and they're keen on what you have to say and do. The average person who doesn't know you is like, "I don't care what you're having for breakfast."

But if someone who really loves you is like, "Yeah, cool. You are there, and you're having that food, and that matters to me to know that." So the surveys show, the research I've done has said first connections do love the personal stories, and the little quips and the jokes, but that vast majority of people who are actually seeing you statistically, the second connections, the third connections and so on, they respond more to knowledge, and advice, and things that are insights, and so on.

We've got to remember, it's always good to warm an audience, but it's important as well every day to be saying how do we add new people in here? Because for everyone who falls in love with us, they also might start waning in interest over time. No one is in love with your content forever, or that's very rare if that is the case. So we're always going to be thinking who are we bringing in? What do we need to do to make someone new say today, "Here's someone I should check out more. I've never come across Chris Do before, maybe I'll hit the bell and check out his content again tomorrow." You see? So that's just a really important consideration. It's really interesting seeing that research come out, and I think it's probably validating what we probably knew anyway.

Chris Do:

I want to get your take on this, Richard. I see myself as a teacher, as an educator. So for years now all I focus on is, I want to teach you something, I want to give you a tool, a resource, a reframe, something like that. And I built the following, and then people are saying, "Chris, is there a human behind that? Because it just seems like all you want to do is teach, but we don't know who you are as a person, and we want to be let in into this world." These are not first connections, these are second or third connections. What's your take on that?

Richard Moore:

It's an interesting one. So I've produced content now since 2014, really; Facebook, then Instagram, and here on LinkedIn. And I've never once, for instance, shown a picture of my daughters, have never once shown a picture of me and my wife, or anything like that. That was just a choice I made and that's that. And it's not stopped huge amount of success in my opinion, that was defined by me as what success would look like. I'm feeling really good about what's happened. So there's plenty of things you don't have to do. And I must say, because asked my take on it, this is the truth, is that there is a narrative pushed by a lot of content creators that the holy grail, the end point, the place you should end up at, is a level of confidence in being fully vulnerable when stuff goes wrong, or stuff goes right in your life, not just talking about work.

And I don't subscribe to it, because I don't think your audience necessarily would come to you for that. In the little bubble line habit on LinkedIn, I'm seen as this guy for conversion from content. I'm not that funny of a guy, so they go elsewhere maybe for humor, or they go elsewhere for more anecdotes and so on about life and so on. But I hear what you're saying, it's like, well why not flavor it a bit more with more about Richard Moore? And I just think you've got to be careful, because it's so seductive when you post things about your personal life, because when you do that you tend to get a huge amount of engagement because people, humans are sentimental, nostalgic, emotional creatures, and you can get a huge amount of engagement and distribution of reach, and that feels good to the ego.

So we do it again, and again, and then we are diluting further and further in my opinion, the reason why arguably we are here. And I'm not here necessarily for popularity, I'm not here for people to think highly of me as a great human being, that's not my main thrust. I'm here because I'm interested in growing my business and I see that as a valuable element, but it cannot start defining my content, because for those who use it in my opinion too much, and I'm talking like it's always in their posts, you end up losing sight of what would otherwise be a lot of clarity on what they actually do. There are plenty of LinkedIn influencers far bigger than me who have incredible amount of distribution on all their posts and huge amount of engagement, and I couldn't tell you what they do. So I think there's a really interesting question, because there's a balance that's required, and you have to not be seduced by doing it too much just because you get a bunch of views, and likes, and engagement.

You've got to ask yourself, is this mapping to conversion, or something about pipeline, or something that I'm here for in the first place? Otherwise, what are we doing here? We're just trying to get likes. So it can flavor it. And of course I mention the fact I have a wife, and kids, and things every so often, but typically I don't think it matters so much. I rarely go hyper viral and plenty of people far smaller than me in following will regularly outperform me, really all the time, and outperform me in terms of how many people are engaging with the post.

But the key part is, I'm getting the right people seeing me in the right light, and I'm shining a light on me being an expert at this thing. And I think if I was to give a percentage on it, Chris, it's like maybe there's 5%, 10% of that side, that behind the scenes, who really is Richard kind of thing. But I'm not leaning into it so much and I feel like that's a balance that seems to work. What's your feel? Just because I'm interested in what route you've taken as well.

Chris Do:

Yeah, I think there's a whole spectrum of how you can approach social media, and I think at the end of the day, whatever strategy that you want to apply for your life and your business should be aligned around with your long-term goals. So we have short-term goals and we have long-term goals, and on the far left spectrum is all these emotional posts that talk about your feelings, everything that happens in your life. That's on one side.

It sounds like Richard is pretty far on the right side, which is I'm here for a purpose, which is to establish my authority to help transform people's lives, and then grow my business. And that's why I'm here. I'm not doing this for sport, it's not about a popularity contest. I think I'm somewhere in the middle. And this gets me to think about this question, I don't want to go too far into this. Maybe this is an opportunity for us to come back and debate this, about you're probably not then a big fan of the personal brand, and you may not believe in the attention economy, which I believe in very much so. Do you have a quick take on that?

Richard Moore:

I do. And as you were talking I was thinking, I was like what really is at the heart of this? And the fact is, there is no wrong or right, this is what works for you. And my extreme best, because it is, my extreme on this, which is not being so open about the personal life, actually reflects the self. I'm quite a shy guy and it's not natural for me to open up like this. And I think if you were to be patient enough to look through all my posts that I've ever done, you would see a general movement towards the center. Nowadays, I'm more open than I used to be, used to be really hardcore on just this is how you convert. And whereas now is a lot, there's a softer side, there's a bit more soul there, there's a bit more about me, but it's who I am.

I think I've always been a shy guy and what's interesting is, I'm in my early 40s now, but maybe in 10 years from now I may have developed further, that perhaps I share more. So what I think is the message to the audience is, is like you've got to do what works for you, but be testing and recognize that ebb and flow may be necessary to get the balance right, because what your definition of success is, may be conversion, and you may not be getting that if you are all in on just the popularity context. And I would certainly point out that this idea of personal brand and developing that in the way we've just described, is something I've gently warmed towards more in the last few years than I ever have before. And I'm sure I'll go more in that way. So I suppose I'm still in that process of evolution, Chris, from who I was.

Chris Do:

Oh, beautiful. So I'll make a deal with you. I'll teach you about personal branding, you teach me how to sell on social media, and I think we'll have a little beautiful product at the end.

Richard Moore:

There we go. We got a deal on the live call, everyone.

Chris Do:

Let's do it.

Richard Moore:

Yeah, that sounds good to me.

Stewart Schuster:

Time for a quick break, but we'll be right back.

Chris Do:

Just a brief pause, to say a heartfelt thank you to our supporters at The Futur. Helping one billion creative people do what they love for a living isn't just our passion, it's something we live by. To say thank you, and because we couldn't do it without you, we want to give you the chance to craft your own curriculum so you can save time, money, and focus on what really matters: your business and your creative pursuits. So for the Black Friday season of savings, we are offering you the chance to save 25% on all courses, resources, toolkits, and merch all November long. Visit thefutur.com/seasonofsavings for details.

Stewart Schuster:

Welcome back to our conversation.

Chris Do:

I want to throw the first question to you, and just for sake of efficiency here, is it [inaudible 00:23:49] asked this question, is there such a thing as posting too much, so that we don't give our posts a time to breathe and attract our audience? Do we get fatigued when we post too much, in terms of fatiguing our audience?

Richard Moore:

Yeah, really good question. That's changed in about the last year actually. So a really great question. About a year or so ago, if you posted and then posted again later that day, it would actually kind of kill the original post, that previous post, and imagine the spotlight of distribution would shine on the current post. That's changed now, so multiple posts can coexist across, say, a 24-hour period. But what you'll find is that if you have one post across 24 hours that might get say 10,000 views, and if you have three posts across the 24 hours, they might get say 5,000 views. So the individual post wouldn't get as much distribution but combined, look, I got 15,000.

I always say, and this is just like the sales director in me, if you've got the time to go put out multiple bits of content, what about if you put that time into something else, such as making one piece of content better, or instead of making more posts, deploying that time into engaging with the individuals, because are you here for just a following, or are you here to get into opportunities and convert?

So it's a really good one. I would always say you can't post too much, because the people who absolutely love you, they want to binge on you nonstop. They just can't get enough of it. But I strongly suggest it's more about being able to keep it up. If you can post each day, I post seven days a week, that's worth more than, "Hey, I did three today, but I'm exhausted and I won't do any tomorrow." Once a day's more than ample to get, as long as your content's good enough. And usually the question shouldn't be, should I post more? It's what could I do to make this content even more lively?

Chris Do:

Excellent. Okay, why don't you pick a question that was sent to you.

Richard Moore:

Yeah, so I've been looking through here. So apart from the format of posts, could you let us know about the type of content that performs well, such as anecdotal, or tips, or reviews, et cetera? It's a really good question, this is from Ashraf, and I really like that question, because what people attempted to do often is hide behind other people's content. And the content that performs the worst is that which is shared from other people. So if anyone out here is doing it, stop. If I hit share of someone else's post, if I love what Chris Do has posted today and I hit share, his post gets a kick and I get nothing. So LinkedIn won't distribute a shared piece of content. But in terms of the type of content that I would write, it's the stuff that makes people see themselves in a different way, or learn something new that they didn't realize about themselves.

So when it's like, did you know that if you said this this way, rather than that way, it has that effect on people in terms of your sales calls, or something like that. Or did you know that if you do X, Y and Z you have this outcome? And when people are saying to themselves, "Wow, I didn't even know, it was right under my nose. If I just took that small action." And for me it's things like, if you use this line, or this term, or this turn of phrase, it actually has people stepping forward. That's the stuff.

And what it is, Ashraf, it's the practical nuggets, that they are powerful bits of information that they can deploy straight away, and they're like, "Wow, I can try that and I can get a result straight away." And I just tend to find that they work the best. But as I mentioned earlier, the reframe posts are crucial. It's the ones that make people think, "I'd never looked at it that way before." Or even better way of describing their feeling is, "No wonder I had never got the results I wanted, because I hadn't tried that thing that this person's just been saying." So those kinds of vibes are what works best, as opposed to just a how to, or three tips for good community, because that feels a little bit too like everyone else's.

Chris Do:

Richard, I have to ask you this question since you're in dialogue with LinkedIn folks, is I've noticed something that's happened in the last couple of months, where when you comment on someone else's posts, they make a suggestion, "Would you like to share this?" And the way they treat shared posts today is a little bit different than they used to. So if LinkedIn doesn't want us to share posts by rewarding us, why is that a feature and why is that a suggestion? Or maybe I'm misreading what's going on here?

Richard Moore:

Good point. And so what's interesting, and this came out of a call I had recently with LinkedIn. He said, "You've got to remember, you are speaking, Richard, on behalf of a lot of content creators," and he said the vast majority of people aren't here with that agenda in mind. And so, actually there's a lot of people wanting other things. And so, what's really interesting is that it's like share a post, because it's a wholesome thing to do, and it stimulates a conversation.

And I think probably now they'll probably dial up the value of posting someone else's piece of content, and you'll get a trickle of engagement. But the fact is that if you are a content creator trying to move the needle and get people to look at what you are doing, why are you a conduit to other people's knowledge and ideas, when you would probably do better to share your own? This is your show, they're following you for a reason. So I think there is an agenda that LinkedIn has there, of this is good to keep that sense of community for the masses who don't necessarily have the same agenda as content creators. I don't know if I've articulated that right.

Chris Do:

Perfect. Thanks for saying that. And I just do want to say, anybody that's a fan, or friend, or part of our community, I personally love that you share our content.

Richard Moore:

Oh, absolutely.

Chris Do:

It's kind of how I gauge whether or not this content is hitting with people. So if it has hundreds of people re-sharing it, I think to myself, I think they want more content like this, and that's what informs me as to what to write and create. So, okay.

Richard Moore:

Absolutely. And what's exciting is that LinkedIn is just rolling out now better analytics on this stuff. So in your profiles, especially in creator mode, at the top of it now you can hit analytics and you can really get deeper dives on demographics, and so on, and you must pay attention to that. If you get 24 reposts, it's a big signal that you really resonated. So yeah, totally agree with that. Some people love to share and they're not trying to convert, they just love contributing and that's all good.

Chris Do:

Okay, great. I'm going to bounce over to Chris. Chris asked this question about how helpful is it to boost content? Are we doing this? I don't know anybody that does it, maybe I need to do it, I may need to consider it. What do you think?

Richard Moore:

I've thought about it so much and I remember... So last time we did one of these calls was a year ago, but I think it was two years ago on clubhouse that we talked about this, and you said, "Look, on Instagram if I boost a post, I'm going to get more people like that seeing that piece of content." And it's a really nice top of funnel idea. What's interesting is if you boost a post, it can go out to more people, but then the problem is you have this word promoted, and I just feel it's a subtlety that we can't overlook.

That, I don't know about you, in my newsfeed or in my timeline or whatever, if I see pieces of content with sponsored or promoted, there's part of my condition brain that's like, "Oh, advert probably, or something like that, some form of gamification. I'm going to disregard it a bit." And I can only speak from one man's opinion, but that's how I view it and I think that that might be the general sentiment, because that's how people typically view ads. But here's the fact, is that the algorithm is so organic, algorithm is so generous anyway, I just don't think it's necessary.

I think it might be worth playing with, and LinkedIn is desperate for you to advertise and boost posts, and they typically throw $25 of free credit if you want to give it a go. But from what I understand from those who've tried it, it's just kind of pointless compared to just doing great content and spending time with the community. So I think save your money is my advice on that one.

Chris Do:

Okay, so I've never boosted a post personally, except for on YouTube, and I haven't done it, I have my team do it. And in fact when I boosted that by targeting certain audiences, it's shown on the sidebar so you already kind of know it's promoted, and it actually helped one of our videos go viral, which then made our whole channel blow up. So it was money well spent, but I've not done it on LinkedIn.

Richard Moore:

That's such a good case study then. And the thing is, people mustn't take what I'm saying as meaning it's a terrible idea, and Chris has just shown what's so important in the nuance, which is if you get it right, something like that can help you blow up. So I just think, anyone listening, your opinion must always be based on testing yourself, not just what I have to say. So Chris and I are here as guides, it's so important to have a test and play yourself as well.

Chris Do:

Okay, Ibrahim, what's your question?

Ibrahim:

Yeah, thanks, Chris. Richard, thank you so much for the insights in terms of switching up the types of posts. The question simply is, do you plan the subjects of your posts in advance, or are they more spur of the moment, when you wake up in the day like, "Oh, I should post it on this," or is there a set agenda that you kind of unroll out throughout the week?

Richard Moore:

Thanks, Ibrahim. I'll go first again, Chris, if you don't mind. So my approach is really simple. I have in mind typically a kind of general theme I'm going to be focused on, and I'm not a massive planner, it's just not my thing. So I am like, I can be creative in the moment, but the answer is actually neither of those options. Because what happens is, after several months of writing content, you now have a reservoir of past posts that can perform well, right? So four or five posts out of every seven each week are a form of repost.

So the other day, this is how it looked. I went onto LinkedIn, went to posts, scroll back five months, found a carousel that was kicking it back then, because all posts are completely dead after a few days, copy it, literally copy the text, paste it, and drop it, download, and then upload again the carousel, hit post, three minutes, done. And then that post absolutely crushed it again.

And what we've got to recognize is if we've got talent, if we've got creativity, then there's a lot of value in ensuring in planning, but also in reaching back in time and pulling out of the content graveyard this wonderful thing that may be converted, or really stimulated conversation, and putting that out again, and you don't have any penalty for doing that. So I don't want that kind of burnout from having to be creative every day and I think this is a really nice hack that works well.

Chris Do:

Very interesting approach there, Richard. I have to say I've never actually reposted anything in my timeline before on purpose. I think we have certain ideas and we might wind up repeating ourselves, but I don't do that, but I'm not doing this as targeted and as strategic as Richard is. You can clearly see the differences of our two approaches, but we're actually quite similar in many different ways. So I usually have a massive amount of ideas. So I'm keeping a notebook or my phone handy all the time, and when I'm engaging with my audience, and they're commenting, and I'm commenting right back at them, oftentimes one post will lead to 10 new post ideas. And one of the cool things is when you give a response to someone, and you like what you wrote, that's the beginning of the next post. So I'll just literally quite copy that and repost, and what I'll do then is I'll write more to it, because I liked the way it was phrased.

That might be my mic drop moment where I end on that phrase, but I don't lead with it. I don't plan anything in advance. However, I do have a large bucket of different ideas, and depending on what it is I want to talk about, it might be connected to a tour, or a workshop I want to promote. I'll organize it just kind of in my mind, that these three posts should be the next things that I write about. Every once in a while I'm so inspired by something that I stop doing the other stuff, and I'll just write that post that day. The way my creative brain works is when it's hot, when I'm emotional, when I'm fired up, I want to write then and there, because if I put it on the back burner it's going to get really cold and I won't be able to write it again.

Richard Moore:

I just want to tag on there, and appreciate time is an issue, but it's such a good point Chris has made here, that if you're fired up and in the moment, don't throw water on that. Write the post, get it ready, and there's nothing wrong with interrupting typically your flow, and sticking that in. And I must add that typically a post you've written can be a really good brief for another type of post. So my team, their job is to see a text post and use that as the brief for a carousel, and that carousel is a brief for the animated GIF, or something like that. So often you get a triplet of content, which is actually very much the same thing, but expressed in different ways, because some people dig a carousel and others they prefer text only. I just want to tag that on. But that kind of hacks to minimize this often pain for some people of feeling you have to grind out content.

Chris Do:

Wonderful, thanks for that question. That sparked a lot of conversation between Richard and I. Ibrahim, I'm going to move you over back to listening mode here. We're going to go over to Louis. Go ahead and ask your question.

Louis:

Chris, Richard, thanks so much for you guys are dropping gold nuggets. So the question is, what advice do you have for someone who has limited time, and wants to maximize their content creation process?

Richard Moore:

Yeah, I would really go with the thing I just said for Ibrahim there. So maximizing time is about saying, the term is how do I mine the seam? And mining the seam is like, how do I get this one nugget or idea, and get the most from it? So here's a good idea, you can have this. There's a technique called hub and spoke. Hub and spoke is where you look at a month and you go, "Right, I've got four weeks. Each week I need one theme." So it might be personal brand one week, second week's conversion, third week is communicating on the phone, and then the fourth week might be whatever else. So I have four themes for each week. So then I have the spokes for each of those topics. The spokes represent the post I do each day, and I might have an observation as one spoke, I will have a contradiction kind of post.

So everyone thinks this, I think this as another type of post. I will have old model versus the new model kind of post. I will have a story as a post, and maybe something else like a poll, or something like that. So now my five types of posts I can do each day of that week against that one topic. It's a really good way to be able to sit down and go, "Right, it's Tuesday, that means I'm doing an observation post, and what's my topic this week? It's personal brands." You can already feel, well, that's almost starting to write itself. I'm going to do a personal brand post, what's an observation I've seen recently?

And it is a beautiful kickstart for if you don't have time, and you're like, "Oh, I'm going to have this writer's block if I have to be creative." So I love that one, but I must add, like I said earlier, seriously, reposting or borrowing from previous ideas, and change it sometimes. So add an image when it was text only before, something like that. So does that help, Louis?

Louis:

Oh yeah, it helps a lot. Thanks a lot.

Chris Do:

A lot of people want to create content to attract clients, but they don't want to put in the effort, they're not prioritizing this. What is a company, what is a business with that customers? It's a bankrupt company basically. So if you don't prioritize these actions, well, you'll get what you put into it. So think about that, Louis. Okay, we're going to move over to Nick. Nick, what's your question?

Nick:

Yeah, hi, guys. I've got a lot of love for Rich. Rich gave me some sales training way back in the day. So my question is around newsletters. How do you feel about the SEO benefit of newsletters, articles in your content matrix? I only ask, as I noticed you've cut back on yours recently, Rich, and you mentioned it was quite low down in your content matrix. It doesn't get much engagement, I don't do it personally for the platform engagement, I do it for the Google Juice, so I just wanted to get your take on it.

Richard Moore:

It's this thing of, if it matters to you and you're going to really lean into it, then it could probably be better for you. I don't want to say for a second, newsletters are a crap idea. Newsletters are an amazing way to capitalize on a big audience you might have, and you might get a load of subscribers, and your ability to do well through newsletters is down to the usual stuff. Can you stimulate the open? Can you stimulate the read, and can you stimulate the call to action, or the action afterwards? I just don't care as much about the SEO, and here's why. My approach is warm inbound from people falling in love with my notions through my content, so they warm themselves, so they're kind of emotionally sold going into the call. The issue I take with SEO, and sorry those who love it, and it does work and it's all useful in some ways.

The issue I take with SEO is, when someone finds me top of Google, they might see an article, sure, and then they might of course go to the website, but that's not necessarily the journey I actually want them to take. I tend to prefer them to warm themselves through the content, and then come to me kind of in that state. I just find that the SEO results, I've had people like, "Hey, okay, I'm looking for somebody who might be able to help with sales. I'm shopping around, why should I buy from you?"

And that tends to be in the main response I've got from it. But my model is much more warming bound from content. So that's why I've diminished that in my content matrix, Nick, but that's my approach. That doesn't mean it doesn't work or is wrong, it's just not right for me.

Nick:

Yeah, it is one of the things that we strategize with clients, because when you do this with teams of people, you can manipulate SEO quite easily with it. But yeah, that makes sense.

Chris Do:

All right, thank you very much, Nick. Go ahead, Charlotte.

Charlotte:

Thanks. Hey, Richard, spoken to Richard a few times as well, love him. What do you do when... So you've built quite an audience for the past six months, and your content resonates with one type of audience, but you think that what you're actually going to sell, your buyers are going to be different. So how do you switch from the tips or the problem solving, to more authority building content?

Richard Moore:

Yeah, I think a lot of people feel that they have to almost announce it, or do something. And I don't think there needs to be a moment. I think just change course, just start doing the different content. And I think that's interesting is when you do that, those that show up for you will either be like, "Ah, that's not what I'm after anymore." And he keeps talking about this and they get turned off. Good, you've segmented away and disqualified them.

Meanwhile, other people are like, "Now this is the kind of flavor I'm into," and they lean into more, you see? So I think just, it doesn't have to be steering an oil tanker. I think just start doing the thing that you're like, do you know what? I need to be going in this direction. Just do it, but recognize that it doesn't happen overnight, and you have to take that time, and you are conditioning that audience to view in a different way, or start feeling that your content's going to be type X rather than type Y, if that makes sense.

Charlotte:

Yeah, perfect. Thank you.

Richard Moore:

Good stuff, thank you. Chris, would you add anything there? Actually, I'm personally interested what you might think on that.

Chris Do:

I don't really think so much about the kind of audience I'm trying to attract. I just write what I feel is important and I can change it like the wind. And I think your advice is spot on. I think sometimes we think our customers, our clients, our community obsess over what it is that we do, and they really don't care. They have their own life to deal with. Okay, let's move this over to Aya? Is it Aya?

Aya:

It is Aya. You said it perfectly. Thank you, Chris. Hi, Richard. And my question was, the points that really [inaudible 00:45:56] with me was talking about balancing, talking about attracting new people, as well as appeasing your super fans. So I was just hoping maybe you could talk a little bit more about that, getting that balance. I think it's such a good thing, because there's people that do support me all the time, and they do know a little bit more of my personal story, and I love that nuance, your first connections, they want to hear about that. And I think you're right, people who like you want to get as much from you as possible, but how do you also take into account people who don't know you, and do you have a particular way that you balance it, or you balance it, Chris? I'm just curious.

Richard Moore:

Yeah, I think what a really valuable element here, which you've not covered that much, is comments. And what you can do is, when your content is written in a way that is trying to stimulate everyone, is giving good technique, and good ideas, and so on, and your first connections show up and cheerlead you. You can riff with them in the comments, in the replies there. And I find myself, when I have a set time and I time block a couple of times each day to show up, and respond to comments. Those that are my tighter friends, maybe I'm on WhatsApp, or maybe they're just hung around a bit, or you know they're familiar faces, maybe the comments are a bit more playful with them, because we've got that vibe. And what I'm doing is actually validating emotionally for them, that it was worth showing up again today to hang out here.

And I think it's actually the comments that really helps there. That allows me to keep them quite happy, and allows me to stay quite in lane. And you've probably sense this from this session that I'm very in lane with the content I write, and I won't go too off pieced, and talk about personal stories and stuff nearly as much as, here's another great thing you can try that's going to help you make more money, because that is my mouthpiece to those who don't know me as much.

But there's a nice little combination of the two, just to draw us together, which is those people who see you for the first time, those second or third connections, it's really valuable to deploy a little bit of time each day to go welcome them in as well. Because there's a beautiful trick with LinkedIn, I mentioned this at the top of this session, but if someone jumps in and likes your post, or writes a comment who you don't know, so send them a message and say like, "Hi, I just want to say thanks so much for engaging the content there, really appreciate it. Hope you'll show up for more."

And maybe even write something similar as a reply. And LinkedIn, the machine itself, takes note of that. So if we back and forth in the DMs, guess whose content you're going to see tomorrow? So LinkedIn is like, "Oh, well maybe you want to see more of Richard then." So there's practical value in doing some DM work with the new people at that very top of funnel, because what will happen is LinkedIn will serve them again with your content. And I love that, because it accelerates the warming process really well. Hope that helps.

Aya:

That was brilliant. I didn't even know about that. I kind of came in maybe 10 minutes late. I didn't know about that at all. So that was brilliant. Thank you so much.

Richard Moore:

Yeah, of comments back and forth, a couple of DMs back and forth with new people, and LinkedIn will say, "Well, if you're engaging, well then algorithmically we'll serve that person your content again the next day." So it is just really valuable and it's a nice way of warming brand new people every day, which is a great way of growing, not just the following, but an engaged following.

Chris Do:

Yes. Okay. So this is a great observation that you're sharing with everyone, Richard, but it's also something from an end user. If you see something that you like, if you click on it, you touch it, you give it a heart or something, you'll start to see more content from that person, and more content like that content. So in a way, you're training the algorithm to give you more of what you want and less of what you don't want. So it's kind of important on both sides of this. Okay, everybody, I hope you have an amazing rest of your day in the weekend. I'm Chris Do, that was Richard Moore. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye.

Richard Moore:

Thank you so much. Bye-bye.

Stewart Schuster:

Thanks for joining us. If you haven't already, subscribe to our show on your favorite podcasting app and get a new insightful episode from us every week. The Futur Podcast is hosted by Chris Do and produced by me, Stewart Schuster. Thank you to Anthony Barrow for editing and mixing this episode, and thank you to Adam Sanborn for our intro music. If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor by reviewing and rating our show on Apple Podcasts. It will help us grow the show and make future episodes that much better.

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