Mo Ismail:

If you've been struggling with putting together or taking your genius and turning it into an offer that your ideal buyer would buy from you at exactly the price that you want, that's exactly what we're going to be talking about today. Stick around for it.

So, Chris, let's jump right into it. Number four, crafting an irresistible offer. Let's just talk about what exactly you mean when you say irresistible offer.

Chris Do:

An irresistible offer is an offer so good that it compels the person to say yes, which requires you not to pitch or convince or to do much sales. And what you want to do is understand what motivates people and give that to them. So, you're removing resistance.

The thing that gets in the way of a sale is when people feel tension around making the decision to move forward. And there's lots of ways to do this, but I want to share a little nugget from my former business mentor, Keir McLaren, God rest his soul, is that he's like, "Doing good work is the price of entry to be in business."

So, what you have to do is take that off the table. A lot of us think, "Well, the work should sell itself." We've been told this in school. We've repeated these words. I have said these words that if the work is good enough, I don't need to sell. And what we don't understand is that as competition has increased and there are so many talented people in the world vying for the same kind of work that we're trying to get, we can no longer rest on the product is good.

The product being the design services that you do, the copywriting or the websites that you build. Because if you're not good and the work isn't good, they don't even consider you in the first place. So, now what we have to do is we have to enter a new level of thinking about our products or services in ways that they become so attractive that that expression, take my money, comes from the client. Not literally, but they feel that.

Mo Ismail:

I'm curious about this because this is so timely. I had a conversation with some of my students, and we were talking about copywriting and particularly writing hooks and how they're concerned that maybe they're sensationalizing the information that they were going to give in their videos.

And that made me feel like when you said this, I was like, aside from competition going up, talent going up, some people may be feeling like, "Well, but I'm really good. Why don't people just buy from me?" And is there something to the idea of why do I have to make it sound sexy or come across sexy or really sell it if people just want good work? Can you speak to that a little bit? That feeling of like, "I don't want to make it sexy and needing to fluff it up."

Chris Do:

Yeah, and I would agree with them. Actually, you should not fluff it up and fluff it up is the wrong concept. You're not trying to put a nice package on a crap product. When you talk about creating an irresistible offer, it means you've actually redesigned, reengineer the product itself, so that it doesn't really matter what the wrapper is. This is not talking about facades in creating or that expression, putting lipstick on a pig. If it's a pig, it's a pig. And nothing you do will change that.

So, we have to think about this radically different from the point of view of our client. And what we have to do is, we have to try to identify what are the top things that create tension in the buy-sell cycle. So, let's talk about that, Mo. There's a couple of things. Why would a client not buy? Well, they feel tension around something.

Oftentimes, it's around price because they think it's too little or it's too much. And it's like the Goldilocks Syndrome, where it has to be just the right price. It's not too hot, not too cold, not too firm, and not too soft. And the natural reaction is, an irresistible offer is one that then must be at the lowest price. Sometimes, that's the case.

So, when a client experiences a tension around price, what are ways to alleviate that tension? There's two ways that I can think of, reduce the price to a point in which it becomes a no-brainer decision for them or increase the perceived value, which is really where I'd like to spend most of our conversation today because anybody can tell you to reduce your price to sell more. Few people can teach you how to raise your prices, so you can sell less to more qualified buyers, for what reason? Let's talk about the reasons first, the why's behind us.

So, people automatically have this knee-jerk reaction when I tell them, "Raise your prices if you want better clients." What do you mean? Are we trying to just build clients out of money? Are we being greedy capitalists as some people will say? No, let's talk about this.

So, here's a simple exercise, which is we're going to make a list. What are the benefits and consequences of raising your prices? And you should write all those things down. And then, what are the benefits and consequences of lowering your price? And what we want to do is attack both these lists from an unbiased objective point of view.

So, Mo, let's talk together. Let's try and do this exercise. What are the benefits and consequences? So, both the pros and the cons of raising price. Let's start with the positives. What might happen if you're able to raise your price? Just throw out whatever comes to the top of your mind.

Mo Ismail:

Higher caliber client. If the price is higher, then that means that business is probably making more money. And the perceived value of my product is higher because it's more expensive compared to other people in the space. I also feel like there's an accountability on me as a service, the team as a service to deliver good value, quality value. So, we hold ourselves to a significantly higher standard. Those are three that come to mind for benefits.

Chris Do:

That's pretty good. So, if I gave you more money to do the same work that you're doing, how might you spend that money, Mo?

Mo Ismail:

Like the customer experience, making sure that from beginning to end, the feeling of the service is quality. The team would be of higher caliber, higher talent. So, I'd get a player teams to then offload the work off me, and then for them to take accountability. And then, I think innovation where, I mean, I'm in the creative business, so this may not apply to everybody.

But the higher the talent, the more innovative the end product is going to be when we're thinking about things like editing or filming or even script writing. So, I feel like everything just goes up with for quality and the experience of the service itself, that's what comes to mind for me.

Chris Do:

Yeah. So, I'm going to make this almost pedantic or very super pragmatics that you don't feel like we're being hyperbolic and exaggerating, pumping up the benefits. So, I'll speak in real basic terms here. If you gave me more money to do the project, it would mean that I could focus more on you. I'm not worried about taking on a bunch of clients because I have bills to pay. That seems pretty logical, right?

So, all of a sudden, I can focus on a few. And if I can focus on a few logic, would then lead me to the point in which I could deliver better product, I could put more service on it. I can give you more of a white glove experience. That seems to be reasonable. And instead of cutting corners, I can think of new creative ways to improve product or service, customer experience or something like that. And these are important things to me.

If you paid me more, I could probably not only just focus on you, but I can actually work on this longer. And I would care more about this turning out well, because I feel a tremendous amount of responsibility that you've entrusted me by giving me so much money more than maybe I even deserve to make. So, I'm going to obsess over this.

So, not only may I focus on you as a client, but I'm focused on this throughout the day, throughout my waking hours. And even when I'm sleeping, I'm going to obsess over this and I'm going to do the work with joy in my heart because I know you've made a big decision to trust me and trust makes me happy. And you've provided for me, my team and my family, and those are very important things.

Now, back when I ran a production company where we made commercials and music videos through a company called Blind, we got paid a lot of money. On average, I think any job that would come in the door would be about a quarter of a million dollars, $250,000 US dollars on the highest, and we did a project for over a million. And on the lower end, we probably did a music video for like 40K. So, it's a broad spectrum. I'm not trying to throw it out there to flex on anybody. I'm just showing you there's a whole spectrum.

But when they get into the $300,000, $400,000, $500,000 range, it means there's enough room in the budget for us to hire just about anybody. And I've used this before where as a way to close a job, I said, "You know this effect that we're trying to achieve. I have the person who worked on that on the feature film that you're referencing. I have that artist on tap and we've worked with them or her before and they're going to do an amazing job." Imagine how that would make you feel.

Now, we talked a little bit about this in the buyer psychology, which is we buy things because it gives a sense of status. Imagine, if you could tell your coworkers, we hired the team who hired Roger Deakins, the cinematographer who shot X, Y, Z movie. They worked on our spot. We got Angus Wall who cut seven to cut the spot for us. I mean, imagine if you had not just A players, but worldclass, best of breed all-stars working on your team?

Mo Ismail:

Yes.

Chris Do:

And what would that do for us? It is a little bit correlatory, not totally causal, but if you have the best people, you have a higher chance of doing the best work. Not always. We know this.

Mo Ismail:

Right, right.

Chris Do:

You don't always get a, We Are the World song with the best artist. Sometimes, you get a piece of crap song, too many cooks in the kitchen. But in theory, you could do better work. And if we look long-term now, not only did you make a client look really good and proud that they made this decision to hire you, they get to tell all their friends, they worked with the best people in the world, which gives them status.

But also, it means that the next time you go out to get a piece of new business, you can use this as a shining example of what you're capable of doing, the potential of your creative output. And that's worth a lot. But let's say, you spend none of the money on trying to improve anything, and that's your right and your prerogative too. Let's just say you're really dialed in with the team that you have and their creative ninjas. Super awesome. What happens is now, is you're more profitable.

Mo Ismail:

Yes.

Chris Do:

What can you do with this profit? You can upgrade the equipment for your team. You can invest in systems and software and consulting and coaching and personal development because you have extra runway. It means, you can breathe a little easier.

So, when a poor fit walks in the door, you don't have to take them. You don't like their vibe. You don't like what they stand for. And you have greater power to say no. You can be more discriminatory as who you choose to share your gifts with. These are good things. And that end of the year bonus or the half year bonus that you may or may not want to give, you can be more generous and reward to people who are there for you with you this entire journey.

You can plan for a rainy day. Maybe there's an elderly parent that you need to support and help or that dream vacation that you had to delay for seven years because you've been working like a dog. You can finally say to your partner, to your loved one and say, "You know what? Here's where we're going to go, the dream place, and we're going to check out for two weeks because we can afford it." So, the quality of life goes up. Your general sense of wellbeing goes up. These are just some of the things that come with the benefit of charging more.

Mo Ismail:

I want to add something here, and it's a conversation I'll reference that we talked about not too long ago. I was in a situation where I was on a hiring spree and I asked you, I remember I said, "How are you able to find such great talent? And how are you able to cultivate a good team? And you were like, "With a lot of trial and error by spending money on talent and experimenting with test projects and recognizing if they're a good fit or not."

And that as an owner, once you transcend from you're the only person doing the work, because there's a part here that Chris is really highlighting where it's like, you have to be thinking as a business, not just as one person. Even if it's through prerogative to just take that money for yourself. But when you're spending more or when you're asking for more money, you have that opportunity to make those "mistakes" with hiring or innovating and testing, especially in a creative business that's always evolving like social media and AI and design.

And when he said that, I remember being like, "Wait, you just spend money?" And you were like, "Yes, because I have to test." And I think you've told me this multiple times, like innovation is messy. So, if you want to be world class, then you have to have the buffer room to make those mistakes and spend that money to innovate and invest. And I thought that was brilliant. And it ties really perfectly with what you're saying when you make more, you're able to accomplish those things.

Chris Do:

Yes, and it's not my idea. So, I want to cite source of ideas and I want to say to everybody, I have no original ideas. I collect ideas, I remix them and I present them to you for easy consumption and digestion. The original quote is, "Innovation is inherently messy and wasteful." And the person who said that is Blair Enns. You could have just guessed one of the three people I'm going to cite.

And so, what that means is companies want to be innovative and simultaneously diametrically opposed is they want to be efficient. And he goes on to state that those two ideas oppose each other because we want to be innovative, which means we have to try lots of things that are not going to work. And there are some studies that have shown reports that companies to spend 20% of their operating income or revenue on research and development tend to outperform their competitors by a wide margin in the stock market.

So, we know that. I mean, very few people are going to say we're a boring, non-innovative traditional company. We always think of ourselves as innovative. But innovative means, you have to try things that will not work. So, you're going to need to spend money on people, on equipment, on processes that just don't work and you're not stressed out over it because there's enough pad and runway there for you.

So, if I want to work with the new artist and I'm well-funded for this project, I'm going to try them out. If it doesn't work, I just cut them and I try another person. If it doesn't work, I cut them and I keep trying. I'm not stressed out because the money is there and that's what I use it for.

Mo Ismail:

Do we want to do the other half of this example where it's like the consequences of not charging enough?

Chris Do:

We do because inherently whenever I tell people to charge more, they counter me with the argument of why you should do it for less. So, let's go there. Again, I'm going to throw the ball in your court first, my friend, and say, "What are the benefits and consequences of charging less?"

So, let's go with the benefits first. If you are able to charge less, what are the benefits of that? And do your best to try to be objective and neutral when you're describing this list.

Mo Ismail:

Benefits, there may be more demand for you because you're more accessible to a bigger group of customers. It could not require as much resource. So, the cost for it is going to be less, but that's out of necessity. Maybe, it's faster in certain cases, that's a maybe. So, that's what's coming to mind for benefits. And I'm trying here. I'm trying.

Chris Do:

You have to try really hard because the audience will say, you're not speaking to what it is that I feel.

Mo Ismail:

Yeah, yeah.

Chris Do:

And luckily, for you, I've read most of those comments, so I know what the argument is going to be. So, let's try to point out the benefits in our most objective, unbiased way. Okay, what are the benefits of charging less? When you charge less, it means you open up the potential customer base to more people. So, you're going to get a greater variety of clients and you're going to get a greater volume of clients.

You've removed a lot of the resistance in the buy-sell cycle because you've priced it so low now that it doesn't even hurt me to try. And this is akin to say fast fashion, where you're not sure about that trendy shirt or tie that you want to buy or dress. And so, it only costs 25 bucks. So, it's like, "Who cares? If it doesn't work, I throw it away." Whereas, if you pay $3,000 for something, it better work because you are now living with that and you're going to beat yourself up.

So, it also means, you attract a buyer who's not wholly committed, who's willing to try stuff, and it gives you a great variety of projects to work on. And maybe, instead of having three clients, you're going to have 36 clients and you can show all these potential projects that you work on. And you might get a lot more experience.

And so, by increasing the volume, let's say, you can sell logos for $100. If you do 30 logos, that looks like a really big number. So, in order to fulfill all these things, now we slip into potentially some of the consequences here. Who can afford to do this work? I can't hire subcontractors because there's not enough budget in there for me to hire someone. If I hire someone, they might even charge more than what I charge. So, I can do all the work myself, but because I have increased volume and increased opportunity, I have less time.

So, I have less attention and focus to each client and each problem. And I'm not spending all my nights thinking about this because my mind is racing with what I have to do the next day and the day after that. And so, now as a consequence, I'm going to work longer hours for more clients. I'm going to be switching gears pretty often. I may or may not make mistakes because I just don't have the time to sit there and refine and double check anything.

Mo Ismail:

Right.

Chris Do:

I'll most likely be doing all the work myself, so that's awesome. I get to do all the work. So, no subcontracted work. And some people love that. My hands are in the work, but it means, I can get no help and should I get sick, if I should have a creative roadblock, I am screwed. And I'm not going to be able to give good customer service because I can't remember customer's names. It's going so fast. It's the assembly line. We've become the McDonald's of fill-in-the-blank of whatever service you provide.

And very few people want to describe what they do as a parallel or an analog to fast food. We want to be fine dining, not fast food. We don't even want to be fast casual. So, now I'm overwhelmed. I'm trying to make money to make things work and you can only go this hard for this long before you're completely burnt out, and you have nothing left in the tank. Because you know why? Because you can't take vacation. You can't even go to the toilet because you're worried about the 13 other projects you've taken on. So...

Mo Ismail:

Talk your shit, Chris.

Chris Do:

I mean, think about it.

Mo Ismail:

You're so right.

Chris Do:

That's the logic. I want to go all the way to end of this thing. You might alienate your friends and your family and your loved ones because you're working all the time. They might label you appropriately as a workaholic. But you're saying, "I'm just trying to provide, and this is what's happening."

So, the benefits are few, the consequences are many. So, I want you all to think about that. So, when you craft your irresistible offer and people want you to price your project lower, like I said, anybody can lower their price. It takes a creative person with self-confidence and communication skills and business acumen to charge more. And that's a challenge.

We want to do the things that are difficult because few people are willing to do the difficult things, means, I have less competition. This brings me to another point. The higher the price of what you do, the less competition you have, because there are only a few people that charge that premium price. The lower the price that you charge, the more competition you invite. When you charge quite literally, $100 for a logo, which some people argue is too much for a logo to begin with, but that's a special breed of people is, it means that Sally, who is a hobbyist designer also charges $100 an hour. And Jake, the student still in school and freshman design course is like, "I'll do a logo front."

So, you're inviting a lot of competition. And at this point, you've educated your customer to buy base on price, not on value. To buy base on price, not on quality, on not on craftsmanship, not on previous body of work. The single factor that you're telling them to focus on is price, because that's what you focused on.

Okay, so how can we do this? Because you're sitting there thinking, "Great, great ideas, Chris, just charge more. We've heard it, blah, blah, blah." That's all you talk about, right? That corporate American capitalist greed that you are always talking about. What kinds of things do people feel that create tension and resistance to buying? How much risk is involved with this workout? Am I spending too much? Have you done this before? Do I know anyone that you've worked with that could vouch for you? This is risk. The higher the risk, the worse the offer is.

So, our main focus is to reduce risk, and we do this through many different things. We increase the perception or likelihood of success, and it's a perception, it's not real. Just if they believe it will work, that reduces buyer tension. So, we need to assure them. And assurance is a fancy word for how do we guarantee them that this is going to work?

And I don't mean money back guarantees, even though that is a viable vehicle for an irresistible offer. I mean, guaranteeing that I have a track record, I'm published, I judge shows on the work that we do. I speak on stages. I've worked with these clients who are way above where you're at. And if they're not crazy, maybe you are not crazy for working with me. I'm published. I'm a thought leader. I have massive social proof. All these things help to assure the buyer to reduce risk, perception of risk, increase the likelihood of success.

Next, pain. What can you do to reduce the perception of pain when it comes to this project? How much will I have to manage this project, Chris? How many iterations will I see? How do I know this will work? Is this connected to my goals? So, what you want to do is simultaneously reduce the pain while you increase the perceived gains. This is really important.

And we can talk about it as Alex Hormozi has written in his book. If you'd like some of these concepts, I strongly encourage you to read this book because it's going to go deep into this. It's called $100M Offers. It's written by Alex Hormozi, and he's pretty brilliant when it comes to explaining complex business concepts to everyday people. I'm not affiliated with Alex at all. I make zero money by mentioning this. But what I want to do is share resources and source material, so that if you want to a deeper dive, you'll go here, okay.

The other thing that you want to do is you want to look at effort and sacrifices. Alex writes about in his book, $100M Offers, which is how much effort do I have to do as the buyer and what will I have to give up sacrifice as the buyer. So, if you take this to its logical conclusion, it should sound like this, easy, instant. You don't have to do anything. The results are near instant.

Now, as close as you can get that to design your offer, the more likely it is that you have an irresistible offer. So, let's break this down and give some examples, okay? All right. Mo, I know one of the things among the many things that you do is you create video content for social consumption to help authors, thought leaders and business people to grow their presence online.

Mo Ismail:

Yes.

Chris Do:

That's what you do. So, let's try to imagine for a minute, I'm a buyer of that. Let's say, I fit one of those categories and okay, I'm an author or a thought leader, okay, what are the potential things that I have to do in terms of effort and sacrifice? So, we want to reduce both effort and sacrifice because more effort and greater sacrifice means lamer offer.

Mo Ismail:

Yes.

Chris Do:

So, what can you take off the table to reduce my effort?

Mo Ismail:

So, coming up with the ideas.

Chris Do:

Okay, what do we call that?

Mo Ismail:

Ideation research.

Chris Do:

Topic ideas.

Mo Ismail:

Topic ideas, yeah.

Chris Do:

Okay, what else?

Mo Ismail:

So, writing videos. You don't have to do that.

Chris Do:

Script writing.

Mo Ismail:

Script writing, yes.

Chris Do:

Okay, keep going.

Mo Ismail:

Editing the videos. You definitely don't have to do that, nor should you.

Chris Do:

Or we presume. Go on.

Mo Ismail:

Posting, scheduling, monitoring the content across social.

Chris Do:

Anything else you can think of?

Mo Ismail:

I mean, this is probably the hardest, but I'll say it because I know you're trying to just get it out of me filming. If we can minimize the time or the process or the labor involved in or the effort involved in them filming, then it's a more appealing offer for sure.

Chris Do:

Okay. Now, in order to work with you and share whatever number you want, it could be real, it could be imaginary, it doesn't matter. But for the sake of the exercise, we'll go through this, okay?

Mo Ismail:

Yes.

Chris Do:

And I think what we're talking about, most people can understand what Mo does is to help capture ideas and to produce them into bite-sized snackable content, so that people can watch and share and you can grow your engagement and influence and following, if that's what you want.

Mo Ismail:

Yes.

Chris Do:

Now, in order to do this currently, how much might you charge someone per month to do this? Because there's an ongoing need.

Mo Ismail:

Yes. Anywhere between $5,000 to $10,000, depending on what they're paying.

Chris Do:

Just get one number.

Mo Ismail:

Go $5,000.

Chris Do:

Okay, good. So, in order to do this with Mo, you got to pay him 5k. Now, let's stretch your imagination a little bit.

Mo Ismail:

Let's do it.

Chris Do:

This is straight up from Alex's book. Let's say, you were given a crazy amount of money. We will say 10X. If someone were to pay you, a prospect to pay you $50,000 a month, first of all, I'm sure you'd be really happy. What else could you do to reduce effort and sacrifice?

Mo Ismail:

Oh, this is fun. I'm glad we have this on record.

Chris Do:

Yeah, I'm helping you design your business right now.

Mo Ismail:

I know. They would probably have a dedicated team for each of those components to where all they literally have to do is show up at a specific time out of their air-conditioned trailer with, and then just perform. Literally, all they would have to be is talent. So, if you gave me 50Gs a month.

Chris Do:

Keep stretching, Mo. That doesn't sound that big of a stretch. I just literally offered you 10 times the amount of money. This is where you have to put on your creative cap, okay? This is where most creative people excel because most creative people are divergent thinkers that can pull from different areas, and they can bring them in.

Mo Ismail:

Thanks for that. Most creative people excel, me over here struggling.

Chris Do:

No, not yet. Because we have to do is we have to grease the wheels, and once you start to see where I'm heading, the ideas will flow. So, many things that damn pushes through a lot of silt and mud, and it's a sludge that comes flying out of dams, and they open it up again. And once it works through that, and then it flows like crazy.

So, you see, this is a very helpful exercise. You want to 10X the rep budget, and we just went through this whole exercise like, what you can do if you were paid more money. We just did this, so you can just map back to that. I see your eyes darting all over the place. You can just map back to that. Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember, we could do what? As it relates to creating social content for thought leaders.

Mo Ismail:

I mean, $50,000 a month, they would have a film crew that's on them 24 hours a day, that can just be filming every waking moment of their day. Full-time Shreditor or Preditor.

Chris Do:

Yeah. So, there's an HBO series that they produce every time there's a big fight. I think it's called 24/7. It's so successful for getting people to care that then they start to make this as part of their package. Basically, there's a fight between Floyd Mayweather or De La Hoya or Manny Pacquiao, they'll do 24/7. And it's written beautifully. It's narrated by this very iconic voice. I don't know who does the voice. And you fall in love with the storylines and you're like, "I got to watch the fight now." And they know this.

And the theory is, they shoot for about a week leaning into the fight, so you know what's going on. So, you see how they're cutting weight, you see if they're in the gym, all the mind psychology stuff that they have to work on. It's a really beautiful thing. So, you could offer your prospects 24/7?

Mo Ismail:

Yes.

Chris Do:

Okay, what else? See, the wheels are starting to move now. Get past that silt and sludge and you get to water pretty soon.

Mo Ismail:

Yeah. So, we currently repurpose similar content across the three channels. So, if we did have that kind of budget, we would have a dedicated editing team for each platform.

Chris Do:

You've already said that, dedicated teams, move on to the next idea.

Mo Ismail:

Oh, that's a different one, okay.

Chris Do:

The first thing that people do is they say, "When a given 10 times more money, I just do 10 times more of the same thing." That's pretty natural. What we got to do is work through that. And there are ideas here that you're not even thinking of that have nothing to do with what you do today.

Mo Ismail:

I guess I'm thinking about the product. I mean, maybe from a service standpoint, I'm going to block, man.

Chris Do:

Yeah, I know, I know. I want you to be in pain for a little bit. It'll make the reveal much better. So, this person is theoretically just as a concept, going to pay you 12 times 50K, I believe that's $600,000 a year.

Mo Ismail:

Yes.

Chris Do:

Sometimes, you need to look at it like that. What could you do with $600,000 a year? Now, this is not premeditated. I'm just going to go off what you young kids refer to as off the dome. Eminem is unrivaled in his battle raps. I may be unrivaled, maybe I shouldn't say this in my off the cuff thinking, okay. Let's try. If you were to hire me, Mo, let's just say you're a billionaire, millionaire and you really care about your social presence for whatever reason, I'm happy to take your money. I'm going to help you.

The first thing I do is, I would buy all the equipment that you need and set up a studio in your home, lighting, audio, everything works all the time. I would actually, set you up with a desktop. So, literally, you push one button on an app and everything turns on and I've gone in to set three presets for morning, day, and night, whatever it is, you're good to go. Okay? That's just one thing.

Let's say, I create a ghost channel that only a few people see where I actually write concepts using AI and my team of copywriters, and we use sampled audio from you to produce audio and video, and we put it out there for a period of 24 hours to test to see if the concepts work. So, I'm going to do a bunch of AB testing concepts, so I waste none of your time.

So, we're saying these are bangers before you even record a single thing. I'm scraping all of the content from anybody that you and I have identified as potential competition and studying them and producing reports and making recommendations all the time. I have an analytics team that's doing this and generating new ideas and testing them, so that the likelihood of us having a dud are very low.

I might even train robots to scrape everything you've ever done to understand your tone of voice and the things that have worked best in the past. And I'm going to help produce more content like that because that's what we want to be able to do for you. I think what we can do is to set up in a warehouse where each month we're going to... Or every other month, we're going to build a dedicated set that we'll warehouse.

So, when you're in town, you fly in and we have a custom set that you don't have to deal with. We'll strike it when you're done, and we'll have this just for you. So, every other month we get to dream about, okay, you're in the library now, you're in a recreation of your hometown, you're in the streets and Harry Potter. Because we figured out themes, you're a newscaster and we have these sets that we'll store and prepare just for you. And we'll modify this.

Actually, I want to bring in a stylist who works with the celebrities in Hollywood to do a makeover, hair, makeup, clothing, and we're going to allocate a certain amount of money for wardrobe with you. We want to create signature pieces. So, we might even modify the glasses that you have and do something that's one of a kind, completely bespoke.

And since you wear neck jewelry, we're going to have Jacob, "The Jewel" or whoever the famous hot person is to design something for you that becomes part of your visual identity. We're going to do a media PR package that we're going to get other influencers to collabs with you and to hire press people to make sure we're pushing this out to as many people that are important to you as possible.

We're going to actually dream up of publicity stunts that are just over the top ideas to get buzz for you in ways that traditional and new media where they meet in the middle. I'm just getting started, Mo. You want me to stop?

Mo Ismail:

No, I don't. Actually, I want you to keep going.

Chris Do:

So, aside from the 24/7 crew, which we will send for very specific events, and we're going to think about the next time you do public speaking, they're going to follow you through your writing creative process, and they're going to document the whole journey from where you are to where you're going. BTS, fan reaction, we're going to do that.

We're going to take over all of your social media needs and dedicate a team to generate specific, unique identity package for you. And we're going to monitor and manage all of that for you. We'll design your keynote decks. And in fact, if you need help, we will hire a team to write the keynote decks for you, and we'll hire a coach for your speaking as well as try to design some business models, things that you can then package and resell as a thought leader. And we'll help design some franchisable model if that's what you wish.

So, we're going to get involved in the business of building expertise with you. What you'll do is, you'll show up and you'll prove concepts. When would you like to sign up?

Stewart Schuster:

Time for a quick break, but we'll be right back. Teams are the heart and soul of every business. Teams collaborate and strengthen trust to create the products, services, and experiences that enrich our lives. And teamwork helps businesses boost creativity and productivity.

At the Futur, we've evolved into a mostly remote company. So, teamwork and collaboration are more important to us than ever before. We've had to devise systems and methods to make sure future team members around the world can accomplish their tasks and goals. But we're always looking for ways to do it better. Now, the company that makes the creative software we use every day is bringing all of us a new podcast to do just that.

The Power of Teamwork is a new podcast presented by Adobe, leaders in collaboration for more than 40 years with businesses as varied as Meal Kit, powerhouse, HelloFresh, sunglasses startup Goodr, and one-stop travel shop Travelzoo. Each episode will explore how teams in the biggest names in tech, entertainment, business and beyond prove that success starts with we. Listen and subscribe to Adobe's the Power of Teamwork today.

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Stewart Schuster:

Welcome back to our conversation.

Chris Do:

One of the concepts I picked up from one of the speakers at Neal's Ford Mastermind was his idea of vertical integration. It's a strange concept, right? And the presenter, I forget his name, I think it's Jeff. But what he said on stage was, "What most people don't know is McDonald's is a very successful business, but they also have the largest potato farms and they have the largest chicken farms and go on and on." He said, "They actually, manufacture more toys than anybody, and they sell zero toys."

But what they've done is they've set up complimentary businesses that support the main business, that gives the main business an unfair competitive and legal advantage. The businesses, these vertically integrated businesses like the toy company makes no money, doesn't need to make money, has no customers. But allows McDonald's to sell these happy meals for whatever, let's say, $3.50 a happy meal. I need to update my prices here. And include a toy that had they purchased somewhere else, would've increased the price of the Happy Meal by a dollar or two, which then makes it too pricey to buy for your kids.

So, that they take a wash on and they're able to do this. They can keep their prices at a certain place because they own the chicken farms. They insulate themselves from rising prices of chickens. So, what business owners do, very successful ones is, they can set up a vertically integrated business that doesn't need to make money, social media presence, personal brand building, and they could just lose money or break even on it because the amount of attention and publicity and PR that they get from that generate way more revenue for the other businesses. We understand that everybody?

So, when you understand this concept, you might approach your business offering in a very different light to attract a different kind of customer. But if you're busy selling to near do wells, and people have never really made it, it's going to be a struggle to get $2,000 a month from them, and they're going to ask you to do a lot more.

You see, again, I hate to do this, but I want to point back to when you increase your price, it forces you to increase the value. And then, therefore, attract a different kind of buyer altogether. So, you can see this is really fun. When we get away from what we do, and we get to play in this thought experiment, in this fantasy land of what could we do if we got a lot of money, and we broke free of our conservative thinking, we can come up with some pretty radical ideas. Wasn't that a fun exercise to do, Mo?

Mo Ismail:

Yeah, it's going to make me replay this alongside the team to just figure out certain things to improve the business.

Chris Do:

So, now, we have potentially two services to sell to a client, a prospect, which is one, what you do right now for 5K, which sounded pretty good. One that we can sell to a different kind of client for 50K. So, guess where we're going? We're going to do the 10% rule now. We just tried 10X, we can go do 10%. So, now, if you only had $500 as a budget to help people with their social content, what could you do with that? Let's try to design some options. Go ahead, Mo.

Mo Ismail:

Options are pretty limited.

Chris Do:

Don't think like that. Think innovative, think divergent.

Mo Ismail:

Think innovative for $500, yeah.

Chris Do:

There was probably a point in your life when if someone gave you 500 bucks, that would've been the world to you.

Mo Ismail:

No, you're 100% right. I just now have more information in my back pocket to know what I could actually do it that $500.

Chris Do:

We'll put it in your front pocket and tell me what it is.

Mo Ismail:

Still editing, probably with a limited quantity of output.

Chris Do:

Good.

Mo Ismail:

If you're already filming, so say that you are someone who maybe does podcasts or you do a lot of coaching calls, then we could repurpose existing footage to then edit. So, the repurposing is a piece of it.

Chris Do:

Okay, good. Keep going. Give me one more.

Mo Ismail:

And then, schedule for you. Schedule a content, post it on your behalf.

Chris Do:

Okay.

Mo Ismail:

That's coming to mind with a limited quantity of output for the month.

Chris Do:

You've done exactly what I wanted you to do. So, this is brilliant. So, let's quickly recap. You had a $5,000 offer. We went bananas with the 10X offer. And the first thing that you do is you just increase the amount of what you do to come up with your 10X offer. And what do you do in the reverse? When I say you have 10%, all you do is just reduce the quantity of what you're going to offer. Not a ton of innovative thinking there, Mo. You saw what you did?

Mo Ismail:

That's such a great case study, is it? Is this why we go viral?

Chris Do:

You did this perfectly, you really did. But here's the thing that you don't understand. When it's not you in the hot seat, your brain is really clear. You know how you watch design competitions? I could do that. And they put you into design competition and you suck butt. You totally suck, right? Why? Why does that happen? Because adrenaline accelerator, heart rate, perspiration, the idea that you're under the spotlight, and everybody's watching. It makes you second guess.

So, this is a pretty normal phenomenon. It's easy for us as armchair quarterbacks, armchair designers and copywriters and idea makers to do this. And I almost guarantee you, I'll put you in the spot, you'll crack like an egg. So, we did the exact same thing. We just reduced the quantity and that's not the answer either. We must be innovative.

And I think what happens is we have to fight the instinct to self-sabotage. When you hear 500 bucks, you're like, "These sucks. I don't want to do this." So, you'll generate ideas that suck, that express that you don't want to do this. And truth be told, how many videos can you edit for 500 bucks? How much content repurposing can you do? How much posts scheduling, media management can you do? Nothing really. So, you have to break the mold.

Mo Ismail:

Yeah, okay. It's tough also because it's like the curse of the knowledge you already have, right?

Chris Do:

Perhaps.

Mo Ismail:

So, you have to literally, like you said, think outside the box, put the things to the side that you know. And then, innovate, which I'm sure you're going to tell us here in just a second.

Chris Do:

Yeah. So, I'm not sure that I'm using this term correctly, but I just love it. And I want to inception you with a concept with a visual metaphor. We've heard of the concept neuroplasticity. I think neuro relating to the brain and plasticity is how far it can stretch and mold. As we've learned, the older you get, the more rigid you become, the less neuroplasticity you have.

And there are ways that you can do this to remain an innovative thinker. They'll say simple things like take a different route home to try to do something with your non-dominant hand to walk backwards up the stairway because you're building new synaptic nerves in your brain, so it doesn't die on you.

So, thinking outside the box is not only good for your company, but it's also good for the preservation of these parts of your brain that you want to activate. Now, that is me talking out of my butt. So, the way I look at it, neuroplasticity sounds a lot like elasticity, and we have a rubber band. And whenever I talk to my students when I used to teach this in class is think of your mind, your creativity, like a rubber band. If you don't stretch it, it's really boring. It's flaccid.

And if you take it and you stretch it really far to the point in which it snaps, you've broken it. The key is somewhere in the middle where you stretched it, but it doesn't break. And that is powerful because you know what you've done, I'm talking about a little science here, you've created tremendous potential energy. And if you want to shoot your brother with it, you just let it go. And if you let go in the wrong direction, you snap your... And you shoot your own eye out, hey, that's, just rewards, right? Justice in the world.

Mo Ismail:

You're just having fun now, that's what you're doing.

Chris Do:

I want you to think about this. Neuroplasticity, elasticity, a rubber band. We need to stretch. And Mo, I don't want you to stretch. So, we know that there are constraints and it's very good to understand, problem solving is understanding constraints and resources.

So, your constraint is $500. How can you make money in this modern world of $500? Depending on where you're from, let's assume that doesn't buy you very much. So, the only way you can make money is to do it in volume, which is a constraint. It's not enough money. How to get around this? I have to do volume. And the only way I can do volume is, I create something that is infinitely scalable. They should open up your thinking immediately. What's instantly scalable?

For $500, I can write a pretty darn good guide. The social media influencers guide, How to Grow Your Social Falling for Business Owners, with step-by-step pictures, documents, you can even include a kit like, here are labels for your cables. They even rhyme your labels for your cables. And it includes a pre-purchase coupon for a bunch of social media apps that you're going to need.

It comes with an annual subscription for captions for doing your captioning. It comes with a membership or annual subscription to a PromptSmart or Pro, PromptSmart Pro, I think that's what it's called. So, that you can use your phone and your desktop to record content. It comes with my proven tested 100 prompts that work for anybody in the business space, so that you don't have to start with nothing.

This is a guide and it comes in a nice little box. It's still premium, not cutting any corners. It's just a different version of this. And some people are like, "I love this." It comes with a deck of cards, not traditional cards, but each card is some prompt for you to think about. It's a whole toolkit and it might even come with a brand guide on how to build your personal brand from a friend of yours like Chris Do, a killer guide to creating a personal brand, let's just say. And you've included everything that you need for 500 bucks.

So, you're delivering tremendous value. You can author a course. You can partner up with a manufacturer, an OEM something, where it's like a gimbal and a microphone handpicked by you that has this unique colorway like Philip Bloom. Bloom did something with Kessler, I think it's Kessler. And it was the Philip Bloom edition of the slider. It was a little shorter, it was a little lighter. It's carbon fiber, whatever it is, you can partner. It's like here's my $500 kit.

These are things that you're like, "Now, I'm thinking outside the box. What else can I do?" It could be that for $500, you will connect them to a content creator who does editing in a different country that are pre-approved and certified by you. So, if you created an academy the certification process where every person in this group can do work at a certain level. And we can keep going on and on and on until the break of dawn, we can do that. We can do that, Mo.

Mo Ismail:

Get out.

Chris Do:

We can do that.

Mo Ismail:

You're right. You're right.

Chris Do:

So, this is where we get unstuck when we start coming up with ideas. And actually, now I'm going to ask you this and tell me honestly, you had your base idea. We told you a $50,000 thing. Did you get excited about the $50,000 potentiality of that?

Mo Ismail:

A little bit.

Chris Do:

Just a little bit. It would excite me a lot like, wow. If a client really gave me 50K and committed, I'd be so excited. Maybe, we need to check in with ourselves emotionally here.

Mo Ismail:

No, it's not an emotional thing. I immediately, I'll tell you the honest to God truth, as soon as you started listing the things you would offer in the $50,000 package, I went into, and this is good because it allows me to pull my rubber band. I immediately went into operationally how to pull that off.

So, I did something that I always tell my team not to do. I didn't let the idea even marinate. I immediately went into skeptic mode. I was like, "No, no, no, just leave it on the whiteboard. Let it marinate. Allow yourself to really digest it." What I actually got more excited for, and maybe this is just the area that I want to take my own personal brand, was the lower one where it's like, that's cool because it has an elements of a product, it has an elements of academia to it where there, what if it could be a guide or a book or a template or these cool things. And then, you teach around it.

But either way, I think there's a lesson in both. The big one, it's like when you innovate, you got to get there. And then, the other one, it's really cool how you still innovated.

Chris Do:

I'm not even done yet.

Mo Ismail:

You made the $500 one sound really cool to experience.

Chris Do:

Right, right, yeah. So, let's address both of these things. When I tell most people, you can now make 10 X per client, they usually get pretty excited about this. And then, it's like, what is that? The Cherry Plum song during Christmas, the Nutcracker. And it's like dreams of fancy things happening and you feel warm and cozy by the fire stockings are filled, chestnuts, roasting, that kind of stuff.

And the funny thing is you did what you have to be very careful about not doing. And it's a term from Tony Robbins, you got caught up in the tyranny of the how, how will we do this, Chris? How is this possible? What is the least on our cost? And this is not a natural thing. I don't want you to beat yourself up over, but I want to point it out for the sake of learning for our audience. Do not get caught up in the tyranny of the how.

Live in this space of ideas where everything is possible. First, determine if it's possible, if it's probable, and if it's something desirable. And then, you will manage the resources to make this happen. So, what happens with a lot of people in brainstorming like in my designing class, they won't design a storyboard to look a certain way because they're like, "How am I going to produce this?"

So, what they've done subconsciously and consciously is they've eliminated a lot of possible ideas and they just go with what they know how to do, which is follow a pattern from the past. So, you don't want to be innovative, you want to just stay in a little box. And boxes are good to be buried in, but not to live in terms of your mind, open up.

Now, when we went to the $500, you were also stuck at the beginning, but it said, "Describe things that are scalable." I'm sure it tickled your brain because not just for the things that you said, but because it doesn't require too much work from you after you set up the systems. So, it's on autopilot when you can get excited.

So, first, we are like, "100 bucks, ain't going to be able to do anything with that." But $500 presented this new way, you built a product company. Product companies are valuable that can be bought and sold. They have intellectual property. You can scale a team up. Whereas, bespoke service is very hard to do. And I'll throw one last idea just to push you over the edge in terms what you could do.

Mo Ismail:

Give the goods. Give me all of it.

Chris Do:

We know that there are things like Birchbox and HelloFresh where they deliver a packaged meal because they discovered something. People do enjoy cooking, they don't enjoy shopping. They don't want to buy a whole thing of pesto to make one meal. And so, what they've done is they portioned it and put it all together, so that you can get the joys of cooking. You can learn a few things and it's like paint by numbers, and there are these little kits that you get sent to your home.

I've been toying around with this idea as an educator, what can we do that feels fun? Now, as a kid, I would love to order things through the mail because there's a way to give myself a present. The postman came, there was a box. I'm like, "I'm ripping into this little surprise, and wow, so cool. I'm going to put this kit together."

Most of the times I would buy cereals for those box tops and you collect five and you send it in and you get them some stupid prize. The prize was never worth it, but the thrill of it was putting it together. So, what if you came up with a subscription service for not even $500, $50 a month? My team and I are going to send you one of 12 boxes that are going to get you to think differently about content creation. It's going to be creative, fun, and it's tangible, it's tactile, and you're going to get to do something. So, sign up for the subscription. It's 500 bucks. It's 10 boxes that'll be delivered to your door post included a see on the social media.

Mo Ismail:

That's hard. That's hard. You're going to create some businesses off of this episode.

Chris Do:

Those are a couple of ways that you can start to think about how to make an irresistible offer. What we also know, and this is one of those ones where people are going to argue with me, is I'm going to ask this question, is time, money? You've heard that expression, time is money. Is it time, money, Mo?

Mo Ismail:

No.

Chris Do:

Okay, why not?

Mo Ismail:

Damn it. I should have known that was coming.

Chris Do:

It didn't matter what you said. Whatever you said, I was going to ask you why? Why not?

Mo Ismail:

You're going to ask why. No, that's why I'm saying I should have known that was coming.

Chris Do:

Random guess then.

Mo Ismail:

Yeah, I said no because if time is money, then no, it was a random guess. That's what we got. My brain is fried at this point.

Chris Do:

That's fine. Okay.

Mo Ismail:

Random guess.

Chris Do:

So, I think it's the truth. Time is money, yes. This is why people charge hourly. Time is money. So, my time is worth money. And they said, "Well, I should charge $50 an hour or $100 an hour." So, they try to raise the price of what they charge hourly for. And this is what people like to argue with me when I say, trading time for money is a fool's errand. And when you do that, you're punishing innovation. You're being punished for being good because when you sell units of time, you are incentivized to sell more time and not more results.

And no clients I know buy your time, they buy result. I don't really care if it took you 10 hours to fix a hole in the wall. In fact, actually, if you take too long, I'm upset. So, why am I saying this is true then? Because I don't believe in this. So, people say, "Well, just keep changing your hourly rate, Chris." But conceptually, it's a flawed concept. It doesn't matter how much you scale it up or scale it down, you're still exchanging time for money, which means the unit of measurement that is important is time. And very few people buy your time.

Okay, get ready. Here's the big twist through on you, okay? Time is money, not your time. The client's time. That's the big flip on everybody. Okay, so it's yes? But so, your client's time, presumably because they can hire you, it's worth more than your time.

Mo Ismail:

Yes.

Chris Do:

When you go in and you get your hair done by a stylist, whatever they charge you is worth less than what it would take for you to get a degree in beauty or hairstyling. And for you to cut your own hair, it's just not worth it, you just pay. And you paid the gentleman to shine your shoes because the materials and get your hands dirty and the whole bit, it's an affordable luxury for you. Your time and effort is worth money.

So, the person who saves you, your time and effort creates money for you. You've heard me say this before, Mo, I do not hire people for them to give me more work.

Mo Ismail:

Yes, yes.

Chris Do:

Because now, you've done the opposite. I've given you money for you to make me work harder. How long will that relationship last, Mo? Not long at all. So, you can see the frustration. So, your mind should be obsessed over, how do I save my client's time because their time is worth a lot.

So, let's enter in a situation. A client wants to launch a restaurant. So, they go to a contractor and the contractor says it'll cost $100,000 in construction fees. It'll be done in four months. Like great, what would it cost to do it in three? And they're like, "What do you mean? It can't be done in three. Why not? We don't cut corners. Okay, cool."

They go to another contractor. How long would it take? When do you need it to launch a store by? It's got to launch in three months. Because you know why? Every month that it's not up, it's costing me $100,000...

Mo Ismail:

So good.

Chris Do:

... loans and lost business.

Mo Ismail:

So good.

Chris Do:

So, you say, okay, normally I think this would have to be done in four months, but seeing how it's costing you $100,000 not to get this up. Normally, I charge $100,000. I can get a two-shift crew. I know people at City Hall could issue the permits for our approved plans. We're good to go. It's going to cost you $180,000 to do this. If you're the business owner, who do you hire? Company A or company B?

Mo Ismail:

Option number two.

Chris Do:

You would go for number two. You see what just happened there? I asked you what time is important to you. And then, theoretically, then you volunteered information like, why is that important? Because it's caused me a lot of money. I know this because I've been in business, I've purchased real estate. I'm financed buildings and projects before. It's killing me to pay for a space I cannot use.

I'm paying the loan, I'm carrying the loan, I'm paying for insurance for the place. I'm also paying tax to be in the city, real estate, property tax. I'm paying for a lot of things. And the most important thing that is an opportunity it cost is, I can't start my business until this store is open.

So, time is money, not your time. The client's time. When you understand this, it would change the way you think about your work. That's why when I said early on, two words you should think about are easy and instant. People pay a lot for that. Let's check our logic because this is what I like to do, okay? A package is going to arrive to you in five days, Mo, would you like to pay for expedited shipping?

Mo Ismail:

Yes.

Chris Do:

Mo, you're going to get on a plane and you've asked for a product, so that when you're on vacation, you're going to be able to enjoy with your kids. Would you like to pay for expedited shipping?

Mo Ismail:

Yes.

Chris Do:

Mo, when you land at the airport, do you want to wait in the queue, which could take as long as an hour? Or do you want to drive or to pick you and your wife and your kids up, so that you don't have to wait? In fact, Mo, your time is so valuable, would you rather fly private or public? Because you could just show up 20 minutes before, get on the plane, get served and fly out of here. No paperwork, no nothing, and land at your destination. Be off the tarmac and less time than it would take for you to wait in the queue. Would you like to fly private or public? You see the difference here?

Every time I sell someone back their time, who's a high-net-worth person, I've made a lot of money for them, and I just want to capture some share of that. So, when you're designing your irresistible offer, if nothing else, if you're feeling the pressure to reduce your price, do not reduce your price. Decrease the time in which you can deliver the desired outcome, if nothing else. How do you think Amazon destroyed everybody?

Mo Ismail:

Yup.

Chris Do:

They got you your package in hand, in a remarkable amount of time through a lot of logistics and programming, automation and optimization that no company can compete against. And the better they get at it, the harder it is for someone to compete.

Now, I love B&H and they're based in New York. When I order a camera, I wan't to order from B&H. They're good people, right? It takes a lot longer to get it from B&H because they don't have all the robots and inventory. Amazon looks into their system. They say our warehouse in Northern California already has it. In fact, we have one in LA, we can get it to you same day.

Mo Ismail:

Nuts.

Chris Do:

Nobody can do that. No one. So, Amazon has created customer loyalty, even though you might not think of it like that, but customer preference because they've been able to shorten the period in time in which it takes to get something. In some instances, I feel like it's more painful for me to get in my car to drive somewhere to buy it, to go back home and sit versus hit one button. It'll be here so fast.

Mo Ismail:

So true.

Chris Do:

So, think about how you can deliver your product faster, not deliver an inferior product, but to deliver the same product or the better product for less in less time. What can you do to reduce perceived risk and increase perception of success? There's a whole host of things you can do. And when you do that, you want to package all this up. And now, you have three-tiered pricing, you have your $500 option, you have your $5,000 option, and you have the Ritz Carlton option, Four Seasons, $50,000 white glove. I'll give you a back rub while you're at it, option.

Mo Ismail:

Yes.

Chris Do:

And by providing pricing options, you've removed a necessity for the client to triple bid you. They have things to compare to. This is why, when you look at many products in SaaS, they have the good, the better and the best because they don't want you to go to another site and do comparison shopping.

And in fact, because they know we can't make a decision without context. They'll also then include the comparison, the matrix between their competitors, what they all feature and what's unique about their product. So, you might say, "Well, there's no differentiation between me and the next competitor." And that is a positioning product design problem on your part. You cannot articulate or pull any differentiation between what you do and what they do.

So, to land the plane here, Mo, is when we talk about writing an irresistible offer, it's not about adding the sizzle. It's not about packaging. It's literally redesigning from the ground up what your offer is, so much so that your clients feel in Alex's word, stupid for saying no. An offer is so good, it sells itself.

Stewart Schuster:

Thanks for joining us. If you haven't already, subscribe to our show on your favorite podcasting app and get a new insightful episode from us every week. The Futur Podcast is hosted by Chris Do and produced by me, Stewart Schuster. Thank you to Anthony Barro for editing and mixing this episode. And thank you to Adam Sanborne for our intro music.

If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor by reviewing and rating our show on Apple Podcasts. It will help us grow the show and make future episodes that much better. Have a question for Chris or me, head over to thefutur.com/heychris, and ask away. We read every submission, and we just might answer yours in a later episode.

If you'd like to support the show and invest in yourself while you're at it, visit thefutur.com. You'll find video courses, digital products, and a bunch of helpful resources about design and creative business. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time.

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