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Chris Do

This episode comes from a Clubhouse Q&A hosted by Billy and Glenn Lundy of Breakfast with Champions. During this candid chat, they ask Chris a series of questions about mindset and marketing.

Why the world need creative thinkers
Why the world need creative thinkers

Why the world need creative thinkers

Ep
145
Aug
04
With
Chris Do
Or Listen On:

Creative thinking might just save world

This episode comes from a Clubhouse Q&A hosted by Billy and Glenn Lundy of Breakfast with Champions. During this candid chat, they ask Chris a series of questions about mindset and marketing.

Things like how and why you should be specific with your goals, what creativity really means (hint: it’s not just for artists and designers), and why our future is in the hands of creative thinkers.

Also, there is a great listener Q&A where people put Chris on the spot and he offers real time, personalized guidance.

If you have any interest in changing your mindset—especially about marketing—then you will love this one.




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Episode Transcript

Chris:

A lot of creative people are introverts. They have a hard time articulating what they do and who they are. They have difficult conversations around money. They don't know how to do sales and negotiate. And they think marketing is a horrific idea. So you can see, I can highlight five or six problems that they're working through. And when I provide a solution to one or more of these problems and help them to grow in their life, that's going to be a bond that's going to be unbreakable. If you want to have a legal, competitive advantage, serve first.

Greg:

Welcome to The Futur Podcast, the show that explores the interesting overlap between design, marketing, and business. I'm Greg Gunn. This episode comes from a Clubhouse Q&A that was hosted by Billy and Glenn of Breakfast With Champions. And during this candid chat, they asked Chris a series of questions about mindset and marketing. The group talks about how and why you should be very specific about your goals, redefine what creativity means, and spoiler alerts, not just for artists and designers, and finally discuss why the world and all of our futures depend on creative thinking. There's even some interesting Q&A from listeners. And as you may have guessed, Chris eagerly shares his thoughtful and direct responses.
Now, if you have any interest in changing your mindset, especially about marketing, then I think you'll like this one. Please enjoy our conversation with Chris, Billy, and Glenn.

Billy:

Chris Do, welcome to Breakfast With Champions.

Chris:

Thank you very much, Billy, for the warm introduction. So happy to be here.

Billy:

Yes. Oh man, you know I'm a massive fan of you. I'm so grateful for your time today. And thanks for being with us. Let's talk first about your mission. And then we're going to talk about everything that helps you strive toward your mission. A billion people, it's not a small goal. You're thinking big, but you're also doing it in a way that I really appreciate, which is you want people to make a living doing what they love but without losing their soul, what does that mean?

Chris:

Well, I'm focused mostly on creative people. And when you talk to creative people and you talk about money and pricing and value and negotiation and sales, it kind of makes them real. Your skin might crawl. And so I have to be able to package that in a way that they can understand that's congruent with their values, their mission, and their belief system. And oftentimes we associate people who are successful as people who, quote unquote, 'sell out'. And so we have to be able to do it in a way that's ethical and that's in alignment with who they are.

Billy:

It makes perfect sense. Okay. So today there's really two main topics that I want to cover. First is mindset and the second is marketing or promotion. So I want to start with mindset and I want to talk about something that you said on a show recently of yours. You said your goal is your compass, but your hustle is your velocity. And Glenn, being the mastermind behind hashtag Rise and Grind knows something about grinding and hustling. And we know we need the hustle, but without that goal, we maybe don't have our compass. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Chris:

Yeah. I think this is where direction matters way more than speed. I think I was reading in The Compound Effect by Darren Hardy how he talks about like, if you start off on the West Coast and you're heading towards the East Coast and you have a very specific destination in mind, if you're one degree off, you'll wind up in a very different place. And that's why we need to be very clear about where we want to be. And I understand that if there are young people listening, that maybe this is not a priority for you. And I think that's totally okay because when you're in your early part of your career in your life, you're still exploring. You're looking for things and it's okay to do that. But as you kind of mature and you start to figure out things and you kind of know what you want, it's best if you start to really think about and plan for that life that you want to have.
The clearer you are about your goals, I think the easier it is to get there. Oftentimes people will come up on stage and they'll ask me a question about how to achieve something. And what I usually find is they have a hard time articulating what it is that they need or want. And so therefore the plan doesn't become clear or self-evident, but when you get really specific and you're talking about goals that are measurable and time bound or bound by time, then all of a sudden it's like, okay, now I start to know what we have to do. For example, I want to be rich. I want to be financially independent. That sounds like a goal. But if you would actually be much more specific about it and say, "I want to earn $250,000 this year doing X, Y, and Z."
Now I start to think about, okay, so that means you need to make about $25,000 a month. And what can you do for how many different types of people where they would gladly give you that money for the service that you render? You need to be very specific about your goal. And that's why I talk about that.

Billy:

So what is the, when you think of the goal, when you think of getting specific, can you give maybe, and you've given a couple of good examples, but I think one of the things that you touch on is, and you just said, time-bound, talk a little bit more about that because I think we sometimes make these broad brush goals that sound good, we believe we're dreaming big, but it lacks the nuance and detail to get us there on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. So can you talk a little bit about the structure of maybe more micro-goals?

Chris:

Yeah, sure. I'll give you a real life example on how I learned how to do this. I was talking to my business coach many years ago. And I was frustrated that some of the younger designers weren't doing what I wanted, that they weren't good enough. I wanted them to be better. And he's like, "How are we going to know if they got better?" And it really threw me off for a loop because I was having an expectation of my creative people and I couldn't even figure out how articulate it. And then he goes, "What steps do they need to take in order for them to become a better designer in your mind?" And I said, "Oh, okay. I get that then. I want them to read these two very specific books on typography. I want them to roll in this workshop and I want them to do an exercise for 100 days, one piece of design every single day."
And I think that would get them closer to being a better designer. And now once I'm able to articulate that, well, we have this shared framework between myself and my team so they know if they've been notified, this is what they need to work towards and by when. And so then they can work towards that and check it off the list. So if you want to say, I want to be a healthier person today, well, what does that really mean? Does that mean reducing your caloric intake? Does it mean exercising for 30 minutes a day or getting to a specific waist size? So once you start to set up those kinds of goals, then you can break them down into micro-goals and you can reduce a year-long goal to monthly goal, to weekly goals and even to hourly goals. And that's how you start to attack the problem that you're trying to solve.

Billy:

But in order to do this, you need to have some level of openness, right? And I think you talk about the fact that openness is the key to growth. And even like when we look at neuro-plasticity and think about the ability of the brain to form and reorganize those connections, that is really vital to our ability to learn and grow. Can you talk a little bit about both the science and the reason why we must from a mindset perspective, have that openness in order to grow?

Chris:

Yeah. I'm going to be treading on thin ice here. Let me see if I can do this part, because I'm not so big on the science part. I kind of know it from observation and how I coach and help people. But I'm a big believer in this, hold strong opinions loosely. And that means that... I'm 49 years old. I have 49 years worth of life experience. But tomorrow, if somebody says something to me that can actually help me learn and to grow, I have to make a hard decision. I have to decide to let go of my past so that I can have a different future. I'll give you an example. There's somebody that I brought up a couple of times in conversation, his name is Mo and it's somebody I've been working with for the past couple of years.
And one Sunday we're chatting just him and I talking on the phone and I was telling him about the future that he could have. And it was an exciting future, but his first reaction to me was, but Chris, if I do that, I feel like I'm going to lose part of myself. I had to say, "Mo, you see, our fear of loss is greater than our fear to gain. And so what you're telling me right now is you're so in love with the way everything is in your life in terms of like your career, your finances, your relationship with your physical health. You're so in love with that that you don't want this other thing." And then I went to describe in detail for him what the other thing is. And so a lot of times we don't make the decisions that we make because we're so attached to the way we were.
And it's really hard to coach people. It's really hard to help people when that grip on their past is so tight.

Billy:

Well, not only are we attached to what we know, but we actually look for things that will confirm our existing beliefs. Or if we were raised in a certain way, we have had our parents model behaviors, actions, jobs, religion, any number of things that we've seen and observed them have in their lives. So ultimately in many cases, not all, we apply those in our own lives. And then we look for things to back those up, that confirmation bias and dismiss those ideas that don't support the current assumptions that we have in life. One of the things that you talk about, and I love this is, and this is a family-friendly show. So bear with me. This is not the word you think it is. It's ask whore, what's an ask whore?

Chris:

There's a lot of ask whores out there. An ask whore is someone who asks a question but doesn't really want to hear the answer. And we see this all over the place. And I want to tie this back to your previous question, which is I learned early on when I went to design school and I went to an amazing private arts school and the way that I was able to learn faster than my classmates was because of my different mindset about how the critique was. Most people show up to a critique wanting to be praised. They want to be told how good they are and the decisions they made were great. I had an exact opposite point of view. I make work. And if I knew that the work was bad, I would have changed it.
So my assumption is the work is good. So if I go to class and I show my work to my instructor and my instructor says, "That's amazing, you're amazing," what did I learn in that moment? I didn't learn anything. The instructor just affirmed or confirmed what it is that I thought I knew. It's only in the critique where the instructor very carefully points out all the areas that I can improve. That's where I learn. And so most often, like even, I'm bringing back Mo up again, he's like, "Chris, you're a little thrifty on the compliments here." I said, "Mo, do you have low self-esteem?" He's like, "Well, no." So I said, "What will you learn when I tell you you're good and you're great?" "Well, I'll feel better." "And then what will you learn when I tell you these are things that you can improve?"
Oh, okay. So we have a different mindset about how we look at critique and criticism. And that's why if you ever come to my YouTube channel, you'll see the comments are littered with negative feedback. And some people will ask me, like, "Why do you leave that up?" I say, "Well, if it's constructive negative feedback, I'm happy to leave it up." So if they say, "Hey, Chris, you're a donkey." No, there's no information there. It's just pure opinion. But if they say, "Chris, you're a donkey because the way this video ended left me unsatisfied with the answer," oh, okay. That's a clue. And so within the failure, within the obstacle is a clear set of instructions on how to win, how to succeed.

Billy:

Yes. And I know that you are a big believer in this idea of redefining what failure is, because what we may perceive as failure in the moment is really a learning lesson. I think we can all relate to that reality. But I want to go back to this idea of the feedback piece, and then we'll move into the marketing side of the conversation. So feedback, I knew you're a proponent of it. I also know that people are often skewed to being polite. They're afraid to say what's on their mind. And we're in this culture of just tiptoeing around people and saying what they want to hear, what we think they want to hear instead of just being real and blunt and direct and giving them something that will actually help them.
What can we be doing better when it comes to this world of feedback? Because I think feedback is really the lifeblood of growth.

Chris:

I think we have to tread carefully here. Oftentimes what we do fall to is to give people answers. I talked to best-selling author, Michael Bungay Stanier about why is it that we're so compelled to give answers? Because he's a big proponent for asking questions. When you ask questions, you activate the other person's intelligence, you empower them. You get them to be more curious and they have more autonomy and they become more self-confident. But when you give them answers, they become addicted to your answers. And most of the times your answer has really no context of what it is they're looking for. On a platform like this on Clubhouse, it's often that somebody will step up on stage and they'll start talking about a problem.
And before someone even hears the real problem, the real problem, not the surface problem, the deeper motivations as to why they're stuck, they're going to quickly give and dispense advice. And we think, oh, if we give advice, we're going to be really smart. And so what I want to encourage people to do is just to ask more questions to help lead the person to the answer themselves. It's much more meaningful to them. And we also then get them in their permission to go where the conversation needs to go. I've learned this the hard way unfortunately. I'm often invited to critique portfolios. And I used to like when they would show me their work, I'm like, "Okay, there must be an implicit permission from the person to me to go ahead and critique the work." And I would critique the work the way that I normally do.
I'd get in there with my scalpel and start talking about very fine details and the big picture and conceptual development and even the way it's presented. And then I would look up at the person and their face would go pale. This is not what they were expecting. I think they arrived wishing for that confirmation bias or to feed the confirmation bias that they have that this is great and you're an amazing human being. So I learned over the years that I want to ask them, what is going to be most helpful to you? And the answer is quite surprising. So I was at a portfolio review. Somebody shows me their work, I asked them, "What would be most helpful to you? You have me for the next 15 minutes." And you know what they asked me or that what they said, whey said, "Yeah, how's my portfolio case?"
Like, oh, it never occurred to me to talk about your portfolio case because to me, that's irrelevant. It's the work that matters. So I spent time talking about the portfolio case and they walked away quite happy, not much smarter for it, but they were really happy. And so I think there's a couple of things we need to do. When somebody is asking for advice, make sure you have the permission to go where they want you to go, because it's important that they feel it's helpful. It's not just about you giving advice.

Billy:

100%. And I think that clarifying question will redirect the advice that you give, the feedback that you give. What about on the other end, you talked about it from the person giving the feedback. What if somebody is more resistant to asking for feedback or asking for questions? Any advice or suggestions you have for that person?

Chris:

The only one suggestion I have is don't ask for advice when you don't want it. You can't fill a cup that's already full. So if you already know everything, and I've seen these students before, I taught for 15 years. And they would come in to class every single week. And they're like, "Okay, here it is." As soon as you start talking about the work, they would defend every single decision. So they took a defensive posture and they weren't really listening. I'm not that dumb. I see that. So I just start to make the crits shorter and shorter until it's a non-crit. And that's all I can do because I'm not here to pull you into a place where you don't want to go.
And so if you're in this place where you think, you know what, I'm not where I want to be in my life, in my health, in my relationships, in my faith, in my business and all those kinds of things, then you have to start to say, I'm ready to open up. I have to be able to submit or surrender that I do not have all the answers anymore. And from that point, a lot of growth can happen. And this doesn't mean that you have to have some kind of guru coach to work with you. It could just mean that when you're reading a book, you're going to read it with a different intention. My intention is to learn. My intention is to patch up the parts where I don't know, and to fill those gaps. But that intention matters a lot.

Billy:

Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more. Okay. So let's transition a bit here. I want to get into this world of marketing, sort of as a transition to that, you serve creatives. You also work with creatives. Yet you've acknowledged, and I agree with this that many times people suppress their own creativity. How can we avoid this? Because I think no matter what field you're in, if you sell cars, real estate, if you're in any number of [inaudible 00:16:59] farming, how can you be more creative in farming? So why do people suppress it and how can they avoid suppressing their creativity?

Chris:

I want to use a couple of different definitions of what creativity or design means. And I'm forgetting who, I think it's Herbert Simon, a Nobel Laureate, who said that, "Sign is a person who invents or devises a course of action to go from an existing condition to an improved one." And so then you think about that definition and now it doesn't sound like painting and drawing and sculpture and 3D art. It just means that you want to make the world a little bit better from the way it is. And in that way, a farmer, an accountant, even a lawyer can be creative. And we can think about it like that. But if we rewind it to your childhood, and somebody asked me this and he said, "Can we teach people to be creative?" And I said, "No, we can't because they're already creative. They were taught out of creativity."
And Sir Ken Robinson, his TED talk says, "We don't grow into creativity. We grow out of it." And the reason why is because most of our school system, our society and our structure is taught to move people to the average, to the norm. And in design school, the worst crit that you can give to someone is to call them average. Your work is average, but yet that's the norm for our society. And so what happens is the outliers, the high performers, the people on the spectrum are kind of left behind. They're given weird labels and they're looked at and they're ostracized. So if you're one of those people, you quickly realize, you know what? I don't want to be different. I want to be just like everyone else. And so we start to lose that.
And there are some studies that show the amount of creativity with a five-year-old and then they would return in a couple of years. And that level of creativity would just fall off the map. So it would start like 98% creative thinkers and then it would drop off to like less than 5%. And Daniel Pink talks about this, like in the 21st century, the kinds of problems that we're solving need creative people to solve them. This higher cognitive function. This way of thinking and tying in disparate ideas and pulling them together to solve the world's biggest problems require creative thinking. Non-linear thinking, divergent thinking versus convergent thinking, and we need that.

Billy:

You point's well taken. We want to conform. We want to fit in. We want to be just like everybody else. So what can we do to channel more of that creativity?

Chris:

We have to get in touch with our inner weird, and this is inspired by an idea that I read from James Victoria, but I've kind of twisted it a little bit, which is what makes you weird, makes you wonderful. And I think if we look around, there's a dress code. There's a way that you're supposed to talk, the way that you're supposed to, how you greet people. And one thing that you can do is to start to rewire the way that you think and the way that you process, and it could start really small. You can try wearing like a shirt or a pair of shoes that you've never worn before. You could try taking a different route to work in your commute. And it starts there. For me, if the company really believed in celebrating creativity, they would change the culture in so that they would ask us to do things that really are kind of not part of the normal.
A couple of years ago, I was reading the book, Delivering Happiness by Tony Hsieh, the late Tony Hsieh. He talked about embrace and drive change and have fun and a little weirdness. And so I was thinking like, what does that look like for us as a creative company? So we'd have weird dress-up days. Things that you would do as a kid, we have let go of in the adult world and we're not allowed to do them anymore. So I'd ask people to come dressed in their pajamas, or we would have twin day. And there were a couple of people who were really resistant to doing this, right? And so one of them, he's kind of a curmudgeon. He's like anti everything, antiparticipation. So a bunch of the people in the office, without my knowledge decided to dress up just like him for twin day.
So even though he didn't want to participate, by virtue of that, he had to participate. And you know what's really interesting is as we all came in to the office with our pajamas, we decided to walk towards a local taqueria. And you know what the weird thing is? Because we were all dressed the same, when we went into the taqueria, well, who is normal and who's not normal now? Because we outnumbered everybody in the restaurant. So now they were feeling really self-conscious about themselves. And it's kind of interesting as an experiment to do that.
So if you can just do a little bit of something each and every single day that makes you feel a little bit weird and goes outside your comfort zone, maybe you start to rewire your brain to open yourself up to different kinds of thinking. There are exercises that you can do, creativity coaches and little design assignments to help you do this. But that would be the start.

Billy:

Man, I'm loving this conversation. I love exploring ideas and concepts that challenge conventional thinking, and you do this with this idea. We always say the customer comes first, but you think we should shift our thinking from thinking about the customers to thinking about the audience. What does that mean?

Chris:

I think all companies have customers. It's a transactional relationship. I buy, you serve. And that's the kind of end of it. But great companies have an audience. And an audience is a different way of looking at who you serve. You can use different terms to describe an audience. An audience could be true fans, super fans, raving lunatic fans, or cult-like fans. And they're all kind of the same to me and an audience or super fans, you no longer have to pay to show up. The relationship isn't transactional, it's transformative. And so for customers to pay attention, you have to pay them to pay attention. Whereas fans are super happy or an audience is super happy that when you schedule a Clubhouse for them, they're on Twitter already, they're on Instagram, they're sharing, they're spreading it.
They do it because it's a genuine desire to help and contribute to be part of something bigger than themselves. One of our biggest driving factors is to connect and to feel like we belong somewhere. And so when you connect with people on an emotional level, that's where they go from being customers to an audience or super fans.

Billy:

Oh, it's not transactional, it's transformative. That was powerful. Another thing you talk about, which ties perfectly into this is this idea of outreaching the competition. You've had a successful business with your agency, with your design and motion design company, Blind. You've kept your company in business by continuously reinventing yourself. And now you have this incredibly mission-oriented company, The Futur, where you're empowering over a billion people. That's your mission and goal. But in order to do that, you have to outreach the competition. What does that mean exactly?

Chris:

It's actually out-teach the competition, that's what you want to do.

Billy:

Sorry. Out-teach [crosstalk 00:23:40].

Chris:

No problem.

Billy:

Out-teach the competition.

Chris:

Yeah. It's something that I read in I think the book Rework and they're really big into this where you want to share your secret sauce. And I think in the 20th century it's all about protecting IP. In the 21st century, it's about building community and tribes. And the brand with the strongest tribe wins. And so how do you do that? I'm just going to tell you right now, answer is biased because I've taught for 15 years. My own personal identity is a teacher. But I think on social media, in all forms of content marketing, if you want to reach more people, you got to learn how to teach more people. And so when you out-teach your competition, you're helping to empower people to grow.
And if you look at Maslow's pyramid hierarchy of needs, it starts at the bottom with physiological needs. At the very top it's self-actualization, which means to live up to your potential. So companies that know how to speak to their audience and help them to achieve their fullest potential will command their hearts and minds. And that's really important. So when Nike sells you a pair of shoes, they're not just selling you a pair of shoes, they're selling you this idea that you can belong to a whole bunch of people that think and aspire to be like athletes. That all of us can be champions if we try. And all they say in their mantra or their credo is stop thinking about it, just do it.
And so now they're winning a place in our hearts and our mind, and that's something that's going to be very hard to displace.

Billy:

Great example. Okay. You've obviously had tremendous success building what you've built with everything that you're doing on social media, and you've amassed a very loyal following. I will just say this, on Clubhouse, when people join a room and they have a big following, you can tell what their following really is based on who joins them in the room. And when you go into a room, people follow you, you have legions of loyal fans. And so it's not just about doing the bare minimum to make yourself known. You actually have to develop these true fans that are built around, as you said, this audience, this core belief in something bigger.
And you've used Nike as a great example. What are some tips or suggestions you have for anybody out there listening right now that says, "Okay, I want to develop my audience," either they have a company, a brand, or maybe they're a personal brand, they're a coach, consultant, any number of things. What would be some building blocks they could start with to begin developing loyal, true fans?

Chris:

Okay. I want to specifically answer one part of the question, which is we're all in Clubhouse here today. For me, it's Saturday at 8:00 AM. It's not usually my get on the podcasts or get on the app time. But why are we here? We're here to develop, I think, a fan base and a following. And what does that even mean? And so in a future debate, I was having a conversation with somebody about what are you trying to do? Are you trying to fill the room with people? Are you actually trying to get people to see that there's a relationship here that's worth showing up for? So to me, the goal on an app like Clubhouse isn't to have the most number of followers, it's to have the most number of people who turn the bell notification on for you.
And you'll see this. You'll see people, and there's not that many people that have this, but people with a couple of hundred thousand fans or followers on Clubhouse, but when they're in a room and there's 99 people in it, or when they join a room and the room grows by three people, it's telling you the strength of their brand and how they've delivered in the past. So I take this as a very serious thing. So when I join rooms, I don't just jump up onto the stage because I'm asked to, I want to make sure the conversation is good. Because if I do that and the conversation is terrible and a bunch of people follow me in there, they're going to start to learn real quick, this is a waste of my time to such a point that they're going to turn the bell notification off.
And so for me, it's an implicit bargain or a deal that I'm making with people. It's a promise to say that when you show up for me, I will show up for you. And I take it very seriously this time that you've given because I know you can't get it back. Time is this non-renewable resource that's one of the most valuable resources in the world. And so that's the bargain I'm trying to make. Now, if you're a brand and you want to attract and build a very strong tribe, the first order of business is to know who your tribe is and to make a commitment. It's the hard business decision. Almost every time you ask somebody, "Who's your audience?" They'll say things like, "Entrepreneurs, women, millennials."
Well, what does that even mean? You're casting such a wide net. Now, Billy, I know you're a professional as a podcaster, but oftentimes people say, "Well, how do you do your podcast?" Well, you try to imagine one person and you're going to speak to that one person. What are they here for? And you speak to them, and what happens is you hit a group of people when you're very specific and clear. Blair Enns talks about this. He says that your market is bigger than your target. So it's okay to aim small. And in fact, if you aim small, you're going to have a lot more success than when you aim really wide. And why is that? Because when we know who our audience is, we know what their beliefs are. We know what their values are and their worldview.
And then we can start to make some predictions about what a day in their life looks like and the gaps and challenges that they have. And when you can see that, and that's an opportunity for you to solve a problem. I'll make it super specific now. Earlier you mentioned I really am for creative people, not designers, but creative people. And I find that a lot of creative people are introverts. They have a hard time articulating what they do and who they are. They have difficult conversations around money. They don't know how to do sales and negotiate. And they think marketing is a horrific idea. And that if their work is just good enough, they should never have to market.
So you can see it. I can highlight five or six problems that they're working through and they're going to have these problems. And when I provide a solution to one or more of these problems and help them to grow in their life, that's going to be a bond that's going to be unbreakable. If you want to have a legal, competitive advantage, serve first. In the book, this is marketing. Seth Godin talks about this, that marketing is the generous act of helping other people achieve their goals, not your goal. So that's how I look at marketing.

Greg:

Time for a quick break, but we'll be right back with more from Breakfast With Champions. Thank you to Skillshare for sponsoring this episode. You are a human and you were born to create, learn, express, and discover what you can make with online classes from Skillshare. There are so many fascinating classes on Skillshare on topics like graphic design, photography, marketing, productivity, and so much more. Maybe you're stuck and need help looking inward to identify who you are as a creative. If that's the case, then check out Andy J. Pizza's class, Find Your Style. He shares five exercises to unlock your creative identity. And even as a seasoned pro, I found it super helpful. Whether you're a dabbler or a pro, a hobbyist or a master, you are creative.
That's why Skillshare has classes for every skill level. With short lessons, hands-on projects, and classes designed for real life, you can happen to the creativity that we all have inside. So explore your creativity at skillshare.com/futur, where our listeners get a one month free trial of premium membership. That's one month free at skillshare.com/futur.
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Welcome back to our conversation with Breakfast With Champions.

Billy:

I loved when you said your market could be bigger than your target. And one of the things that you highlight is this idea of AIDA. AIDA. And it starts with attention, getting the attention of the person who you're seeking, right? If you have that target, how do you get their attention? Can you talk a little bit about that? I know it's a marketing approach, but I think it really blends perfectly into the world of social media and marketing there.

Chris:

I looked up to see who came up with this acronym, AIDA, and it comes from advertising and marketing. I can't remember who exactly came up with it and it's not clear, but it stands for attention, interest, desire and then action. So when you're writing a headline or you're trying to build a sales page, what's going to get someone to pay attention? What's going to stop them from scrolling right past what it is that you're doing? And then what gets them to become interested? You have my attention, so some clickbaity title, something that promises a result or overcomes an objection. And then you have to get me to become more interested in getting the interest.
Then the next part is, why do I desire this thing? What is it making me that I want to know more about this? And then finally, the ask, which is the call to action. What is it did you want me to do? And be very, very specific. So if you look up this on the internet, I may have butchered that explanation, but just look up AIDA. And I use this exact framework to not only write headlines, but to design 10 slide carousels on Instagram. And this thing is highly adaptable to lots of different things, including a customer journey. So in a customer journey, you just have to add one extra letter in there and change it a little bit. And then you know how to design a customer journey.
So you go from awareness, changing it from attention to awareness. How does somebody become aware of your product or service? What makes them become interested? Why do they desire the solution? The C part is when they convert. And then finally, the A part is now how they become an advocate. So if you just deliver on the promise, that's called satisfaction. You just did what you said you were going to do. But when you help them again, to achieve more, to feel more empowered and to help them gain social status, all of a sudden on the brand commitment ladder, they go from the very bottom, which is satisfaction to the very top, which is empowerment. So think about that.

Billy:

Yes. Love it, man. Okay. So we're going to open it up. I just opened up the room for anybody that wants to ask Chris a question. We also have a ton of brilliant people up on stage. So in a minute, we're going to get to all the questions to round us out here. So Chris, I have one final question, and this is this idea of sharing things that are novel, are new in some way. Because let's face it, man. There's so much noise out there. There are so many people competing for your attention, for our attention collectively. And so how do you stand out from the crowd? How do you deliver something different? And let's also be real, there's any number of things that don't matter and we should ignore them because they're not going to add value to our lives.
So why is being novel so important or sharing things in a new or different way so important to you? Because I fully support this and I'm curious how you approach making sure that you're sharing something that will be new or different or in some way, delivered in a newer different way.

Chris:

I think this comes from some evolutionary biological thing where we're designed to spot differences. Because if you can imagine like you're out in the Serengeti and you're in a field, a thick field of grass or whatever. And if you can't spot that leopard, you're going to die. And so we're really trained in a way to be able to spot differences. And so all you have to do is just stand out an eighth of an inch to be noticed by someone. So if everyone is dressed in a suit and you're wearing a red t-shirt, they're going to notice you. And sometimes that kind of attention can be bad. So what you're trying to do is not just to be different, but to be radically different and to lean into who you are.
And so I recently talked about this from a personal branding point of view in terms of how you can stand out. Personal branding, everybody uses the same language. You'll notice here if you read the bios of everyone up on stage, you'll kind of be like awestruck as to how much everyone sounds the same. I'm a coach, I'm a seven, eight figure entrepreneur. I'm a strategist. I'm a brand strategist. I'm a, fill in the blank. It's all the same. And so later today, who are we going to be able to remember when we're having dinner or the next day and the following day? It becomes really hard to recall. So what you need to do is you need to do something that's just a little bit different.
So take what everyone expects to be normal and just add one little twist. So if you read in my bio, it's going to say I'm a loud introvert. Now in the world, there's lots of loud people and there are a lot of introverts, especially on Clubhouse. But there aren't so many loud introverts. And then if somebody hears that, they're going to say, "That's kind of intriguing. I feel that." And as an introvert, I want to learn how to market myself. I want to be more visible. I want to develop my own identity. And if that's interesting to you, you might want to follow me. Or if you're a really loud person like Chris, I need to learn how to listen with greater intention and hold space for other people. What do I need to do?
And so what I'm doing is I'm living and existing between two very clear markets. And in that space, in the, not in the overlap, in the gap, the white space, that's where the magic is. We talk about red ocean and blue ocean strategy. Red ocean is where there's too much competition. Where everybody's doing the exact same thing. And blue ocean is it's wide open. That's the place I want to be. So find that space where you can be you and you're different enough from everyone else that people can remember you.

Billy:

The memorability piece of that, making yourself memorable is so vital. Chris, I want to share the stage here with some people that I just welcomed up to ask questions. If I could ask each person that I bring up to just make sure you're muted. We're going to go to Sandra first. Try to keep your question to 30 seconds or less. Go ahead, Sandra.

Sandra:

Good morning, everyone. Good morning, Chris. My question is I am trained as an interior designer, though I have an artist mindset. And it kind of falls into your blue ocean, red ocean, but in looking for how to express myself differently, it feels like there still needs to be a portion of it that people can relate to. Otherwise, if it's just out there, people cannot connect with it. And I want to know if you could speak to that because if your vision is just out there, do you just start with being out there and then slowly bring it more towards where you feel people can reach it and relate to it? Or do you feel like it's better to start with the portion where people can relate to and then expand out into the areas that are more expressive once people know your work and get your work? Thank you. I'm complete.

Chris:

Thank you, Sandra. I think what you have to do is you have to bridge the gap. And building rapport is to find common ground between you and someone else. So if you come in and you're dressed in metallic fabrics and your hair is purple and spiky to a room of executives, they won't know what to do with you. You'll be so different that they'll ignore you. And so you have to find that common ground and then you start to build that bridge. So this is where I think you make the familiar unfamiliar. And so if you're in the space of interior design, what kind of style do you work in? I'm just curious.

Sandra:

I would say for me, my work is just my work, but it's... I work in healthcare, so it's very driven by regulations. But in terms of my own work, I would say color and textures are the most important parts to me. I don't know if that's too broad or if that's what you're asking.

Chris:

No, that's good. The healthcare industry is not known exactly for innovation and cutting edge design. Right?

Sandra:

Correct.

Chris:

So as an artist, do you feel suffocated working with this clientele?

Sandra:

I wouldn't say suffocated. I think I just separate it. What I do there is one thing and what I do outside with most of my architect and designer friends is where we are most expressive and creative. But in that work that I want to do outside, I guess part of me really wants to go stretched as far as possible but still make it palatable to people. And I want them to understand that there's that line of, I suppose, I don't know if it's genius or recognizable genius where you see something that's so out there but it does speak to you and that's what makes you a fan.

Chris:

So what's more important to you, financial reward or creative expression? If you had to pick one or the other.

Sandra:

In my artwork, creative expression, because I'm making money elsewhere.

Chris:

Okay. So you straddle the fence on that answer. And so what I'm hearing from you is there's the work that you do for money and there's work that you do for your soul. And I think that's how a lot of creative people live. And so when you're doing this work for clients, you're grateful that it's paying the rent and helping to pay off or put money towards the kids' college fund. Right? And that makes a lot of sense, but then it creates two personas. It creates the professional you and the artist you. And then this is what starts to happen. You start to look forward towards your nights and weekends, and there's this kind of dissonance between the two selves and it creates this fracture in you.
And I think happiness comes when what you think, say, and do are in perfect harmony, they're in perfect alignment. And so for many years, I did things to make money. And now I do things that help people that are in alignment with my soul, my creative energy, but also make me money. And that's the real challenge. And so I wonder in your artistic kind of expression, if that were to take off, would you continue to work in the hospitality, I'm sorry, in the healthcare business doing interior design, or would you just be the artist that you were meant to be?

Sandra:

I would likely just be the artist that I was meant to be.

Chris:

You see. So ideally that's what you would become, right? So now the challenge is to find a way that you can live that all of your day and not just part of your day. And I think this life is too short. We have this one shot to make it, to do what it is that we're meant to do. And I believe each and every single one of us has this gift. All of us have one or more super power, which we can do something better than most people on earth. And so when we deny that, when we suppress that, we're not living our true potential. I don't have a great answer for you just yet, but to continue to explore what it means for you to be an artist and find the overlap where you can make the kind of money you want to make, maybe not today, but sometime in the future. I hope that was helpful.

Sandra:

Thank you, Chris. It was.

Billy:

Thanks for your question, Sandra. And thanks, Chris. All right, so we've got a massive stage here. I'm going to pass it over to [Brendan Kumar Sami 00:43:37]. If you're unfamiliar with this legend, he has the YouTube channel, Master Talks, so go check it out. So I know you have a question for Chris, and as you're asking the question, I'm going to look for slow mic taps on the stage for our next couple of questions. Just do it for a couple seconds. I see Coach K and I'm going to keep looking, do it for a couple of seconds. Go ahead, Brandon. You can start asking your question.

Brendan Kumar Sami:

Thanks, Billy. And it's worth noting, I'm no legend compared to Chris Do. So thanks so much for taking the time to be here with us, Chris. So my question for you is, and this is something I'm super curious about personally. So feel free to answer to the extent that you can, is what are some of the problems and challenges that you're thinking through now to expand your vision and to help other creators kind of get their start. You're someone who's extremely knowledgeable to field. You have a lot of experience. You're able to disseminate the information on YouTube in a scalable way, but what are some of the challenges that you think through now to impact more lives? Over to you.

Chris:

Well, I'm a capitalist, I want to tell you. I'm not a socialist in the truest sense and I'm trying my best to reconcile these two parts of my brain. I'm trying to help as many people as possible because I believe education is the way. Education is where we move from one social economic part and move up that ladder. And I realized that the world is a big place and there's a lot of people where for the kind of courses and the money we need to make, that is months worth of savings. And I don't know how to reconcile that. So what I do is I create a lot of videos, to date over 800 videos on YouTube. And if anybody's ever watched one of our YouTube videos, it's not some sales funnel. It's not some part of like, well, this is gated content, or it's a lot of fluff and we're not trying to pitch you anything.
I just open-heartedly just teach whatever it is that I should be charging for for workshop. That creates a lot of business problems for me and for my team, because the way that we can reach more people is we have to grow our company. We have to scale and we have to prove our business model. Luckily, we're in a position where people, venture capitalists want to invest in us, but I'm like, this is not what I need right now. I got to figure this out on my own. So I'm struggling. And where I struggle is I want to sell in an ethical way. I want to sell because someone has received so much value upfront that it seems like a natural conclusion for them to take the next step with us. And the only promise I can make, and somebody asked me this yesterday, "Well, what's the difference between your free content and your paid content?"
I said, "Truthfully, nothing. I'm the same person, I'm teaching the same thing. The only difference here is that I've created an organized playlist. It's produced. It's scripted. It's really tight. There's downloadables. But if you ever wanted to, you could literally watch a whole bunch of different videos, figure out what order or sequence that they go in, and create your own downloadables if you will, the templates that we're going to hand out to you." But if you have more money than time where you would consider buying a course, so for me right now, I feel a little bit stuck. Last two years, we had $3.2 million in revenue. I needed to get to the five, $6 million this year because I do not like to stagnate. To me when you start to plateau, it's a sign of an early death. And that makes me feel really uncomfortable.

Brendan Kumar Sami:

Thanks for those insights, Chris. That was awesome.

Billy:

Thanks, Chris. All right. I saw Coach K, coach, you're success strategist and professional and personal results coach, go ahead with your question.

Coack K:

Thank you. This is really great info, Chris, I really appreciate you. Here's my question. And I'm seeing it more on Clubhouse as far as how people are positioning their brand with how they present theirselves. So even for me, it's been over 15 years. I got this nickname as Coach K from someone, a partner that gave it to me when I first started in the coaching business. And I'm now noticing so many using coach in front of their name, especially here in Clubhouse. And it started to make me think, as I'm working on rebranding, started to make me rethink whether I should change directions and even just how others are using it, where it's like, I'm the so-and-so coach. I'm this, I'm the branding coach, I'm that.
I know what I've done in this field, but I want to stand out and I feel like it's becoming saturated. What are your thoughts in the actual branding of name, of identity?

Chris:

Yes. Okay. You're asking a good question, Coach K. And whatever your brand stands for, it begins with your name. It really does. So I can't emphasize enough how important your name or your title is in terms of your company. And Coach K is an identity that you've assumed, I believe that's not your real name. And so when you're saying everyone is using this word coach, it's diluting the power of what you started out with. And so this is where I think we have to look for ways to describe ourselves where it's going to be next to impossible for someone to own or to claim. And this is a very difficult thing. I don't have an easy answer for you, but this is like, shoot, I don't know how to say this, but there are brand names that really accurately describe a person and what they stand for that someone else couldn't just easily adopt without feeling like they're totally being artificial and not being genuine.
So coach, I don't know, let me put more thought into this. I don't have a quick answer because this is not an easy problem to solve.

Coack K:

It's not, and here's the other thing I'm going to say. It was easy for me to assume it because my parents are immigrants and I have a foreign name. So my name is [Amanda Kidane 00:49:09]. It's something that I literally feel like I have to train people how to say my name three times before they get it right when I have to introduce myself, whether I go on a show or podcast or whatever it is, and it gets jacked up. So it was really easy for me in the industry, in the coaching industry to take on the coaching persona. And it was something that really helped me early on. So I just think now I'm thinking about a pivot, you got to be intuitive with some of this too, and I'm thinking about pivoting because I do see the saturation. I think it's taking away from the power of what I had going on at first.
And it's not an easy answer. You're right. I've been mulling over it. And I'm thinking different alternatives of how to do this. I have considered going back to my own name, Amanda Kidane, but I do think it is challenging when the consumer audience cannot say your name easily and you have to train them in the process. I think that does make it challenging to brand with your own name sometimes too. And sometimes you want to have some kind of like subbranding thing going on. And that's how this was so easy for me, but I really appreciate you being honest about that it's not an easy process, especially trying to pivot now after I've already been using it for so long. So yeah, I'm going to continue-

Chris:

So Coach K, yeah, I had some thoughts there. Maybe it's not changing your name. Maybe it's how the next few words that follow up your name that could really make the difference and how you describe what you do. And this is where you can get really creative. My friend Mo, he and I were working on describing his own title and how to introduce himself on stage. So we were really working with Mo and he's like, he's got a little hip hop flavor in him. So we're trying to figure it out, it's like, "I'm cooking up tasty videos." I'm like, "Yeah, but where does that metaphor go? This whole cooking thing." And eventually with a little pushing and pulling, he came up with this thing where he's like, "I serve up tasty bite-sized video content. That's why they call me the Pillsbury Moboy." And it's like, it becomes super memorable.

Coack K:

Boom.

Chris:

Right. Boom. And then you're like, cool.

Coack K:

[crosstalk 00:51:21] tagline.

Chris:

Yeah. So I think this is where we kind of take out our typewriter, sharpen our pencils and put our creativity cap on, and we start writing and we figure it out so there's a flow and there's a theme. Somebody who does it better than most people is Johnny Cupcakes. And if you look at most of his copywriting, he takes a pun and he goes to Mark and he's built a t-shirt fashion empire out of just taking one idea and just taking it to its extreme. There's another person, Cindy Gallop. She founded this company called Make Love Not Porn. She's a feminist. And she writes this thing where she's like, "I am the Michael Bay of business. I blow S up." And it's like, you can't forget those kinds of things.
So think about how you can write right after your name. And I don't know if it's alliteration, I don't know if there's some kind of hook, but if you could do that, people will not be able to forget Coach K.

Billy:

Boom. Fire.

Coack K:

Boom. Thank you.

Billy:

I want to get to one more question. So let's... Sorry, Coach K., thank you for the question. I just want to make sure to get one more question in before we wrap up. We're going to go to the host of Fortunately Relatable. Lauren Lavender, the floor is yours.

Lauren Lavender:

Thank you so much. Chris, my thumb is going to be sore tomorrow because I've just been flashing by mic like crazy. I just adore you. I think you are a very solid human being with a very solid center. And I just appreciate you being here so, so much. I have a couple of things I want to say, because I've been taking notes. I love the loud introvert. And Coach K, I think that's a solid place to start. Look at what Chris has done for himself. It's that quick, immediate thing that everybody can resonate with. And I think that advice was super solid. And one of the things that I do with my team when we get in a creative drought is we have a what if huddle? And it's essentially what Chris just talked about. And it was said so perfectly where they got to the Mo Pillsbury situation that just happened.
I can't even say it because it was so cool. But we have a what if meeting? And we basically say, what if we? And it's supposed to be positive, it's supposed to spark curiosity and it's supposed to get your brain to think about it from a creative standpoint, but we're solving a problem. But the thing is, you can't say yes or no or you're a total idiot, get out of this meeting. What you can only respond as is let's explore that or tell me more about that. And what happens is either way, it's exactly what Chris talked about is you have to pull the idea farther. You have to stretch it, you have to cut it, you have to slice it and dice it and break it down or sometimes really stretch it out to see, is this something that's going to stick?
If I throw it at the wall, is it going to stick? Is it ready for us to actually package it and do something with? And so I just wanted to jump in on that because I resonate with you Coach K, though I have a name now that I was... I married into the Lavender family. So it's very easy to remember Lauren Lavender. I kind of hit the jackpot with that. But before I was Lauren [inaudible 00:54:03] and everybody's like, "That's a basic white girl name, next." And so I find ways to rebrand myself as well. But through that exercise, the what if, I have been able to conquer so many creative droughts and to be able to really pull ideas and get them faster farther and just essentially better than I would have done if I just stuck with, this is what I got, so I'm going to market it as best I can through processes that are sales funnels or whatever.
It's like really take an idea, and the best thing you can do is laugh about them. So like some of the people on our team, everybody rolls their eyes. They're like, oh my God, they never take this meeting seriously. They thrive in the what if meetings, because those are the guys that you're like, oh my God, you're so funny. And guess what? They win that meeting 10 out of 10 times. We always do what they say because if you value the humor or you value the whatever it is, that essence that you can have, you can pull that creative idea in that direction a lot farther. So I'm sorry for taking up that time. And Chris, I just really appreciate you being here, but I wanted to throw everybody a bone for that creative drought. If anybody's like, I really don't know what to do with X, Y, or Z, do the what if thing, it really, really helps. I'm Lauren Lavender and I'm done speaking.

Chris:

Fave five. Fave five. Fave five.

Billy:

Boom. All right. Well, thank you so much, Lauren. Thank you everyone. And especially, thank you, Chris. Chris, I want to make sure people know where they can get more of the value you provide. You're on Clubhouse, The Chris Do, but also all your social media handles, The Futur, on YouTube. You go to thefutur.com, blind.com if you have brand needs or motion graphic needs. Pocket Full of Do is your book, The Futur With Chris Do Podcast. Where else can they find you my friend?

Chris:

I try to make myself as easy to find as possible. I'm on almost every social platform except for TikTok. And it's @TheChrisDo almost everywhere. And you can find me if you just search. And if you want to Google my name, you'll find everything else. It's that easy.

Billy:

Perfect. I'm going to read a quote, it's from a tweet and then I'll pass it back to Glenn. Glenn, are you in the house? I just want to make sure I pass it back to you, otherwise I'll just end on this quote.

Glenn Lundy:

Oh yeah, I'm here.

Billy:

Okay, cool. All right. This is a quote from you, Chris. "I stand on a bridge between the life I have and the life I'm working toward. Every day I gain clarity over what my goals are, take the steps that are necessary, and forgive myself when I mess up. On my journey, I try to help as many people as possible while doing no harm to myself or others." I think that really embodies what you stand for. I'm so honored to know you. On behalf of everyone on the Breakfast With Champions family, thank you for being on our show today. Back to you, Mr. Glenn Lundy.

Chris:

Thank you, Billy.

Glenn Lundy:

Oh, incredible, incredible, Chris. You are one phenomenal human being. I saw my man, Tony, was flashing and I think Michelle as well. I wanted to give them just a little bit of space. Chris, do you have like two or three more minutes?

Chris:

Yeah. I can hang out for a few more minutes.

Glenn Lundy:

All right. I got a mic flash. Go ahead, Tony.

Tony:

Glenn, thanks for letting me in. And Billy, you're always doing a great job. And Chris, I love what you've been saying. I would just say, just a quick tip for Coach K maybe after that, the question should be, are you okay? And I don't call myself a coach as much because you're right, I think the word coach is overrated. So I always say that I'm a life and business strategist, even though that still confuses some people, but yeah, that's how I would go. Now, Chris, the question I have for you is something that you said when you were talking about so much portfolio and what is they want to talk about? They just want to talk about the portfolio. So you told them how nice it was and everything else.
Yet, I'm a fan of when somebody asks a question, I give them what they want, but I like to also give them what they need. So I was just wondering how you balance that because if somebody is coming to you, it's great to just throw everybody a softball. Sometimes they need that hard ball. And sometimes that hard ball needs to land in places they don't want it to be so that they can have that shift that they're looking for. And again, that's not popular with everyone in today's world. Everybody wants everything just to be a softball. Yet if we keep getting pitched soft balls, we'll never learn how to play hard ball. So I was just wondering how you temper that because obviously you're out there doing amazing stuff. And I was just, when you said it, I'm like, that's interesting. Because I'm a believer of, give them what they want, but make sure they leave with what they need.

Chris:

Okay. So I want to clarify something. When the person asked me to give them a critique on their portfolio case, I didn't critique their work. I literally critiqued the portfolio case. And I didn't just sugarcoat. I'm not a sugarcoat kind of person. I'm very direct. But I want to make sure what I'm doing is helpful. And I'm going to tell a personal story real quick, and then I'll make this make a lot of sense. My wife is not the most computer literate person even though she's a super creative designer herself. So one day she's like, "Hey, can you fix this problem with my computer?" It's not a job I like. I'm not an IT person, but I'm like, "Okay, I'll work on the computer." So while I was working on the computer, I took an opportunity to look at her desktop and like, it's a crazy mess.
It's like a shotgun of files if you've ever looked at a desktop like that. And all of a sudden, the anxiety in me starts to freak out. I need to put folders and put [inaudible 00:59:23]. And started to organize her desktop. Right? So she comes home from running an errand and she's like, "Did you fix the problem?" Like, "Yeah, I fixed the problem." And I was thinking, here it goes, I'm going to get a great big hug, a kiss on the cheek, a pat on the back, something like that. And she looks at me with steam coming out of her eyes like a cartoon. I'm like, "Oh, oh, I don't like that look." She's like, "What did you do with my files?" I'm like, "I organized it for you. It's like total mess." And she's like, "Put them all back." I'm like, "Honey, you don't..."
And then we got into a little bit of an argument. And she was looking at, you violated my space and you took on a role and responsibility I didn't want you to have. And I felt like, God it sucks. All I did was try to help you and it's an expression of love and joy trying to help you, and I get this heat, right? So at that time I was seeing a family therapist and I was like, "Oh, I can't wait. I can't wait to tell the family therapist what's going on in my life. She's going to jump on my side and tell me, 'Poor me.'" I told her what happened. And she asked me this very simple question. "Why did you do that?" I said, "Because I love my wife." And she goes, "And?" "Well, isn't that what husbands are supposed to do, to look out for each other?"
She goes, "Well, it's really important, Chris, that when you're trying to be helpful, that what you're doing is perceived as being helpful." I'm like, okay. I'm scratching my head, like, okay. And so that was a life lesson there. And so I said, "So what should I do next time?" It's like oftentimes people don't have enough time to tell you what it is that they want. So they might say, "Hey, fix this." Or, "Can you talk about my portfolio?" And so here's a phrase that she taught me that I've not forgotten, which is, before I do what it is that you ask, I need a little bit more information because I want to make sure what I'm doing is going to be perceived as helpful to you. And most often when I tell my wife this now, she's like, "Oh, you've seen Joan again. Haven't you?"
I'm like, "I'm a good student, honey. She told me to say that, I'm saying that." And then usually my wife will say, "Nevermind, I'm going to take care of myself." And that A, solves our marriage problem. I don't have extra work to do, and I'm not going to get yelled at. So it's really important that you get permission to do something and you're invited into the conversation and how you can help because otherwise you're just going to come across as an a-hole. And that's the last thing I want to be.

Tony:

Chris, that was a brilliant response. Thank you for clarifying. You made me like you even more. So the way I referred to that is you got to verify and clarify because so often we make assumptions. We need to verify and clarify that that's what they want. So that was beautiful. And the other thing that I'm reminded of and I want to make sure that everybody gets this takeaway is ask better questions. Because if you get better questions, you get better answers. And many times you have the opportunity to ask someone a question and you don't ask the right question to get the right answer. You just sometimes ask a question to get the answer you want, not the answer you need. So that was brilliant. Thanks Chris for that. And I hope that that question served others.

Chris:

Thank you, Tony.

Glenn Lundy:

Yeah. I think that was super, super strong. Michelle, real quick. And then I'm going to let Chris out of here.

Michelle:

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Glenn. And thank you Chris for staying. Man, I'm an artist and your entire talk has been so inspiring. Thank you for your time. My question is, I looked on your Instagram and I know that you've hit 1.3 million subscribers on The Futur for YouTube, which is super exciting. Congratulations. And your goal is to teach one billion people to make a living doing what they love and you're on your way there very rapidly. So what's next? After you hit the goal of one billion, what's after that? And I'm done speaking.

Chris:

Michelle, thank you so much for believing in me. I'm not sure that in my lifetime I'm going to reach a billion people. I have to be really honest with you because that's like one in seven or eight people on planet earth. Right? I don't know that one person can do that in a single lifetime, especially because I got my start in this game pretty late in social media. I started making my first YouTube video when I was 42 years old. And so if I was doing it since I was 16 or 14, like some of these YouTube monsters out there, I'd probably be in a different place today. And I would be wholly content in my casket as they're lowering me into the ground that they said, "You reached 745 million people, Chris," that would make me very happy.
So I'm just not sure. I'm not sure, but I'm going to work towards that. I believe or I'm just so flattered that you think it's possible and then already planning on my what next. To me, this is what it is. That's all I can hope for I think.

Michelle:

Well, Chris, can I say one thing back to that?

Chris:

Yes, please.

Michelle:

When you speak into the lives of people like me, you're speaking into someone who's going to change the world. And you're speaking into the lives of the people in Breakfast With Champions. So you're going to reach the billion I promise you, and you're going to do more than that because of who you are and how you're inspiring other people. Because when we raise our voices together, we impact the world. So you're going to hit the goal my friend, but thank you for being who you are and-

Chris:

Thank you.

Michelle:

... thank you for speaking into our lives today.

Chris:

Thank you so much, Michelle. I do realize the only way I can make this happen is to teach teachers how to teach better. And I do consider part of the credit is if I can help you, Michelle, touch two lives, then I get the credit for touching three lives. You and the two people you've touched, and it goes on and on. That's the only way realistically I can get to a billion.

Glenn Lundy:

Awesome. The ripple effect, love it. Chris, here's what I got to say to that, dude. If McDonald's can sell a billion burgers, brother, then the world can definitely use you reaching a billion of them. Those billions of burgers ain't serving this universe at all, but what you've got really, really does, man. I love your humility. I love who you are. I love your heart, your authenticity, the way that you speak with clarity. And everything that you deliver, you're able to attach to a story to make it identifiable, recognizable, and edible, right? Where we can eat these big profound thoughts and concepts, but we can eat them in small little bites, digest and really apply them into our lives. So I appreciate who you are, sir. I appreciate you choosing, choosing, literally a choice to spend your time, your energy with us today. It means the world to me, man. Thank you so much.

Chris:

Thank you, very much, Glenn. And thank you everyone for hanging out with me for the past, I guess, hour or so. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Greg:

Thanks for joining us this time. If you haven't already, subscribe to our show on your favorite podcasting app and get a new insightful episode from us every week. The Futur Podcast is hosted by Chris Do and produced by me, Greg Gunn. Thank you to [Anthony Borrow 01:06:00] for editing and mixing this episode. And thank you to [Adam Sanborn 01:06:04] for our intro music. If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor by rating and reviewing our show on Apple Podcasts, it'll help us grow the show and make future episodes that much better. Have a question for Chris or me? Head over to thefutur.com/heychris and ask away. We read every submission and we just might answer yours in a later episode.
If you'd like to support the show and invest in yourself while you're at it, visit thefutur.com. You'll find video courses, digital products, and a bunch of helpful resources about design and creative business. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time.

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