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Cameron Pierron

Cameron worked remotely before it was cool. Like, in 2001. And he worked with big names, like Kyle Cooper and Danny Yount. Titans of the motion design industry. All from his home in the mid-West. In Kansas City.

Why remote work works
Why remote work works

Why remote work works

Ep
119
Feb
03
With
Cameron Pierron
Or Listen On:

Work with anyone from anywhere.

2020 normalized the concept of remote work. Many people were forced to take their office home and find new ways to do business and stay connected. Whether they liked it or not.

But before the pandemic, remote work wasn’t all that common. Which makes our guest, Cameron Pierron, quite the anomaly.

Cameron worked remotely before it was cool. Like, in 2001. And he worked with big names, like Kyle Cooper and Danny Yount. Titans of the motion design industry. All from his home in the mid-West. In Kansas City.

This conversation is from 2018, which feels like it was 10 years ago, but we’re willing to bet that  people still believe you need to live on the coast, in a major city to work with big companies on high profile projects.

Spoiler alert: not true.

In fact, it’s far easier to to land those jobs now more than ever. And Cameron is a testament to that statement. He still lives in the mid-West, is self-taught, and continues to work with some of largest companies in the world.

In this episode, Cameron walks us through his journey from remote freelancer, to studio owner, to now teaching motion design and creating educational products. He covers the steps and decisions he made to get where he is and even shares the financial milestones that came with it. From his early freelancing day rate to his current business’s revenue goals.

If you feel landlocked and like there’s no way you’ll make it to the big leagues, then give this chat a listen. Maybe it will change your mind.

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Episode Transcript

Cameron:
I like to get things done as efficiently and quickly as possible, but still at a high level, and I feel like with my company, because I've decided to do everything on my own, I haven't hired people to help me who specialized in certain things, even things like Facebook and social media. I've decided to teach myself everything, so there's a lot of wasted time that I feel like I could have just approached it differently. (silence)

Greg:
Welcome to The Futur podcast, the show that explores the interesting overlap between creativity, business, and personal development, I'm Greg Gunn. 2020 sort of normalized the concept of remote work, and thanks to COVID-19, a lot of people were forced to take their office home and find new ways to do business and stay connected, whether they liked it or not. I'm looking at you Zoom. But before the pandemic, remote work wasn't that common, at least not in the creative industry, which makes today's guest quite the anomaly. You see, he was working remotely before all of this, like in 2001. And he was working with big names like Kyle Cooper and Danny Yount, titans of the motion design world. And he was doing it all from his home in the Midwest, in Kansas City.

Greg:
Now this conversation is from 2018, which makes it sound like it was 10 years ago. But I'm willing to bet that a lot of people still think you have to live on the coast or in a major city to work with the big companies on high profile projects. Spoiler alert, not true. In fact, it's far easier to land those jobs now more than ever. And today's guest is a testament to that statement, because he still lives in the Midwest, is self taught and has worked with some of the biggest companies in the world.

Greg:
In this episode, he walks Chris through his journey from remote freelancer, to studio owner, to now teaching motion design and creating educational products. He and Chris discuss the steps and decisions he made to get where he is today, and they even share the financial milestones along the way. Everything from his early freelancing day rate to his current business revenue goals. So if you feel landlocked, and like there's no way you'll make it into the big leagues, give this chat a listen, maybe it'll change your mind. Please enjoy our conversation with Cameron Pierron.

Chris:
Hey, Cameron, welcome to the show. I'm super excited to have you on the show, because I feel that there's some kind of kindred spirit energy going on in what you're doing with Motion Science TV. So for people who don't know who you are, can you give us a quick introduction?

Cameron:
Sure. My name is Cameron Pierron, I have been a motion designer since 2001. I was a freelancer for the last 12 years. And about three years ago, I decided to start up a online platform for education called Motion Science.

Chris:
How long has it been?

Cameron:
It's been going for about three years, [crosstalk 00:03:20]

Chris:
Three years, okay.

Cameron:
Yeah, the first year to two years, I didn't take it very seriously. I just kind of was putting some content out there, just to see how people would react to it. But then I started getting a lot of response, so I decided to take it more seriously.

Chris:
Okay, so I'm doing the math here, I'm trying to kind of figure out the timeline. You've been a motion designer since 2001.

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
But you've been a freelancer for 12 years. So you were staff somewhere. Yeah?

Cameron:
Yes, I started out... I had an interesting journey. So I was staff at a small TV station in Wichita, Kansas, and I got this opportunity just to come in and be a producer, director, writer, everything, editor. Motion graphics was just something that was just kind of starting out back then. And so I was making these commercials for car dealerships and pawn shops. Yeah, just things that weren't... Not super proud to say that I worked on that stuff, but I did. That's where I got my start. So-

Chris:
Okay, you're part of that second wave of motion designers, I would consider myself like wave one, because I started in 1995. So you were right there at the beginning of something. And I just have a quick question, how did you know how to do what it is that you're doing? Because second wave, it's not a mature industry yet, schools aren't teaching this stuff yet, as far as I know.

Cameron:
Right. It's funny because I always considered myself the first wave as well, but [crosstalk 00:04:56]

Chris:
Okay, maybe you're at the end of the first wave. That's fair, okay.

Cameron:
Well, so, how I learned was one day a buddy of mine at this TV station showed me some work from [G-Monk 00:05:08] that was online. Yeah. And man, I just saw that stuff, and I was like, "What the hell is this? And how is this guy doing this stuff?" Yeah. And so my buddy knew that it was after effects, and I think it was 3.1 at that time. And so he gave me a copy of it, and I just started playing around, and I did just a ton of spec work just for myself, I would work at my TV station during the day, I'd go home at night, and I'd just start just creating whatever it is I wanted to create. And that's how I got pretty good at my craft.

Cameron:
So I made a demo reel essentially off of spec work over the course of two years, and that landed me a job at a studio in a bigger City, Kansas City. And I got to do work that was more like regional stuff, it wasn't national work, but it was wasn't like your local pawn shop and car dealer. So I started working there, and I started learning off the guys I was working with, there was only three of us, and continued to perfect my craft. And I was able to take a little bit of the work I did there, but I also continued to just to create spec work on my own. And after two years there, I actually created another demo reel that I sent off to Kyle Cooper. And he immediately hired me to be a remote freelancer at that point.

Chris:
What year was this?

Cameron:
2006.

Chris:
Okay. So now you're working remotely as a freelance animator or motion designer?

Cameron:
I started as an animator, I had never taken an art class in my life. So I had no idea, I was scared to death to design anything. People would ask me like... It's just, I'm an animator, that's what I do, I don't design. But it was maybe a couple years into freelancing that Digital Kitchen asked me to actually design some style frames. And I was like, "Okay, well, I'll give it a shot." And I did it, and they were very happy with what I produced. And I thought, "Okay, well, maybe I do have something here that I can actually be a motion designer." And just kind of kept going from there.

Chris:
So what was it like... We have a lot of overlap here, for sure, in Kyle Cooper and G-Monk and all that. What was that like for you working remotely with Kyle Cooper on what I assume to be main title projects?

Cameron:
It was amazing. I was kind of in awe [crosstalk 00:07:49] every project I work with him on. I got to actually work with him one-on-one on a couple projects. I actually got to work more with Danny Yount, and I didn't even know who he was at that point, but starting to work on these projects with him, just to see the way that these two guys would approach these projects, I feel like I learned quite a bit from them.

Chris:
Can you tell us what rate you were charging back in the day when you were working for Prologue remotely?

Cameron:
I want to say it was 450 a day.

Chris:
And how did you feel about that amount of money?

Cameron:
Well, it felt pretty good to me at the time. I can't remember, if I was to breakdown my employee salary at the time, I think it was... it wasn't that much, it was maybe half of that, or two thirds of that. So, to me, just to step into that freelancing world at 450 was pretty awesome.

Chris:
Yeah. So people who are new or perhaps listening to us, like, "What? He's making $450 a day, that's fantastic." And then they start to compare their own staff job. Now, here's a sidebar for you guys, staff jobs are going to pay a lot less than freelancers because they are guaranteeing your job, you don't have to worry about invoicing or finding new leads, there's no gap, you get holidays and vacation and insurance and all that kind of stuff. So there is that thing, so I just want to make sure so everybody doesn't start quitting their job tomorrow, okay? So you're doing this remotely, you're working with Danny and Kyle, you're in all the work. I mean, they still continue to this day, do some of the most amazing motion design work out there, bar none.

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
And so here you are. You're, in Kansas City at this point, or?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Okay. You're in Kansas City working... Do you pinch yourself, like, "How did this happen?" Or?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Talk me through that, because you're one of the first people that's not on the coast that I'm talking to that's doing work that's up there with everybody else.

Cameron:
Yeah, I mean, back then it was... I was the only remote artist that I knew of, I lived in my own little bubble in Kansas City, I'm still in Kansas City. But to me it was crazy, because I was getting the same work that these guys who were living on the coast were getting, I was getting paid the same amount or maybe slightly less or slightly more than some of them at the time as well. So it was like, I've got this low cost of living, I'm doing the same work, and making the same amount of money. So this is awesome.

Chris:
Right.

Cameron:
So being a remote artist, I mean, it worked for me, I had two small kids at the time, and I did travel to Seattle a few times over the course of a couple of years where they wanted me in-house. But then that was it. And I traveled to New York one time as well. But I traveled maybe four or five times total, and the rest of my freelancing career has been remote.

Chris:
You traveled to, I assume, DK. Was that for the Seattle trip?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Yes. And was it because they needed you there, or you just wanted to go get some face time?

Cameron:
They wanted me there.

Chris:
Was there any specific reason why?

Cameron:
I think there was two jobs that I went out there for, the first job was, it was kind of like a quick job for Microsoft, and they wanted the team all in-house so we could just work closely together, and we could pass pieces of the project back and forth without any type of hiccup. And, like I said, back then, remote was still kind of a new thing. People weren't trusting the process so much, "Well, you have to be here, you have to be part of the team, we have to see what you're doing in person to make sure you're legit."

Cameron:
I also ended up working for another company in Seattle called Loaded Pictures, and they flew me out there a couple times as well. But yeah, it's like... Then I guess my name started getting passed around, and I think I got that reputation of I could work quickly, I was reputable, and I could do it remote. So then it just kind of turned into just all remote work.

Chris:
Well, you're doing it right, because you're able to command the same amount of money as people who live in much more expensive places, right? So you're able to have the lifestyle and spend the time and you're also managing your own hours. So got a lot of questions, I'm sure somebody's listening to this and saying, "Okay, so how does somebody do what you do? What steps do they need to take?" How did you even get the work in the first place as the guy who's based out of Kansas City?

Cameron:
Well, it was all based on my demo reel.

Chris:
Okay. Did you send it to people?

Cameron:
Yeah, well, I mean the first time was... I sent it to one person, which was Kyle Cooper, and he called me within two hours of getting the real and he's like, "Let's talk." But otherwise, my reel was just up online, it was on YouTube at the time, and it was word of mouth.

Chris:
Okay. Is it still up on YouTube?

Cameron:
I think one of the older ones is up there.

Chris:
So what would we search for to find it on YouTube?

Cameron:
Well, I don't know if that's the first reel. I think it's the second reel I did, which is... It's just under aka Mr. Black.

Chris:
Aka Mr. Black.

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
Why do you go by the name Mr. Black, by the way?

Cameron:
Oh, just when I was younger, I wore a lot of black, I still do to this day, and my friends would always just kind of give me a hard time about it. And I was a huge Nine Inch Nails fan, so there [inaudible 00:13:20], "Oh, it's Mr. Black again." So it just kind of stuck. Yeah.

Chris:
That's cool. I thought maybe it was like a Reservoir Dogs reference there. Everybody wanted to do Mr. Black instead of Mr. Pink and Mr. Yellow.

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
Okay. So you created a demo reel, you figure out Kyle's email address, and you send it to him, and then two hours later, he's calling you, he's like, "Hey, I got a thing for you." Now, here's what I know, I haven't seen your real, I've seen only the Motion Science stuff, but I will say this, as validation for you and your talent, Kyle knows how to spot talent, and he can see it from a mile away, and he's not hesitant at all. If he sees somebody he likes, whether you're a designer, an animator or fill in the blank, he's going to reach out to you as soon as he figures out who you are. That's how he is. So he's not going to call anybody. He's just going to call a specific somebody. And that means that your demo reel must have been pretty dope at that time already.

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
And this is all remarkably self taught.

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
You learned how to animate on your own, you learned how to design on your own and you're putting something together. Again, Kyle's not going to call you because you know how to animate well, it has to look good, and it has to be well designed. Otherwise, there's no way it's going to... there's no way he's going to act on that, right?

Cameron:
Right.

Chris:
So fantastic. So you're freelancing now, a lot of shops have looked at your about page and it says you've freelanced for BUCK, for a bunch of TV stations, Prologue, Superfad, just a whole bunch of people, right?

Cameron:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chris:
Not TV stations, I'm sorry, just all your clients. Okay, fantastic. So at what point in your story do you start to think, "Maybe I want to do something different?" Why did you start the Motion Science stuff?

Cameron:
Well, I mean, I would actually back up. So in 2011-ish, I kind of... I'd been doing freelance for five years at that time, and I was getting frustrated with the fact that I could only get a piece of a project, and I wanted to get more of an entire project or the whole thing. And with that came a larger budget, more money in my pocket. So that became kind of an important thing to me just to get a bigger project. And so I found a guy here in Kansas City who was doing the same thing I was doing, he was working with networks on the East Coast. And so we teamed up and we created this small little company we called Project BlackBird. And I thought maybe this was my opportunity to really grow this little company into something large, have employees create killer work, more income to me, and it was kind of my escape, maybe out of freelancing.

Cameron:
And so I did that for four years. And during that time, I realized that I got really lazy. And the quality of my work started to suffer because I was... All of a sudden, we were getting these larger projects through these networks, but the money was there, the creative was so-so, and so I just, like I said, got lazy. And all of a sudden I looked at our demo reel and I'm like, "This is crap. What happened?" So that's when I was just like... I started moving back into freelancing, I decided to leave this company. And I started freelancing, and I started looking back at when I had the company and I would interview these kids at art school, right? And for these few positions, we had to interview them and they'd go to these awesome art schools, learn motion design, but then I would see like, "Okay, you went for four years, you have a degree in motion design, but yet you can't proficiently take a task in after effects, and accomplish it."

Cameron:
So there was this gap I was seeing. And it was not with just a couple... I mean, there was a lot of people. So I was just like, "You know what, let me try my hand at creating some tutorials that are different." And I did that, put them up on YouTube. And like I said, it started taking off. And I thought, "Okay, this is an opportunity, I need to jump on this. The approach I want to take with Motion Science, I don't see really anybody else doing this." So that's kind of how it went.

Chris:
Is that 2015 when you launched, because you said it's three years ago?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Yeah, okay. I'm trying to fill out all the gaps in my mind in the timeline here. So let me just quickly recap and see if I missed anything. So you're freelancing, and then you wanted to start a company, which is a natural progression, like, "How do I scale this operation? Can I do the full project or not?" And you do that for, what, four years, from 2007 to 2011?

Cameron:
Yes. Yeah.

Chris:
What does the structure look like with you and your partner? How many people work for you? Are they working remotely? Or do you guys have an office space? Tell me a little bit more about that?

Cameron:
So we were a 50/50 partnership, we had an office space. We had, at one point, I think we had six people, total, working. So there's eight of us all together and we were just moving through these network projects, like I said, but it also turned into, okay, now there's six people sitting in chairs here, so we need to bring in work to pay them, right? And that's when I feel like the work started to really suffer.

Chris:
I see. Because you had to take on more and more projects. And it's like... Maybe as a freelancer, you might have skipped on that?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Now you got to just keep the engine moving, and you get caught up in the business cycle. So I know that pain point very well. During these four years that you're running your company, if I may ask, how much was the most that you billed in a year?

Cameron:
I want to say it was 650. Yeah, our goal was to hit the million dollar mark, we could never hit it. But as the company was hitting that four year mark, my business partner started going through this program through the Kauffman Foundation, which is a world renowned foundation, where they teach you to scale up any business. And so we were on the verge of doing everything we needed to do in the proper way to scale this business to millions, but that's when I was just like, "I'm out." And it was a low, low point in my life because I feel like I let down... Having a partnership, it's like a marriage. So it was really difficult to tell him like, "Hey, man, I can't do this anymore." You have to fulfill the thing inside of you to keep going. And you can only do so much for other people. And I felt like I was kind of propping him up. It was not a good time.

Chris:
Tell me what was going on in your head the minutes, the days before you actually had this conversation with him, how did this play out in your mind?

Cameron:
Oh, I mean, I was just super nervous, of course. And I just felt like... I had gone through a divorce when I was much... I got married very young, and had two kids, and went through a divorce. And so I felt like I was reliving that all over again. Yeah, it was hard, man. And to be completely honest, I love the guy, we're still friends, but I felt like I was propping this, this business was resting on my shoulders, he had these amazing contacts, but at the end of the day, it came down to me to produce the amazing work that we sent out the door. So it was hard [crosstalk 00:21:03]

Chris:
So this is a business... When you said partner, I just assumed he was another motion designer, but was he more a business person?

Cameron:
Well, he was a motion designer as well, yes.

Chris:
Okay.

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
But you had to do the heavy lifting when it came to the actual design?

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
Okay. So when you went to tell him, how did he take it?

Cameron:
He took it fairly well, I think maybe he knew something was coming. It got to the point as well, in the last year of our business, that I wasn't coming into the office, I had gone back to doing remote work here... Yeah, here at my house. And he said he was okay with that, and we still worked through all the projects together. And nothing ever fell through, we always delivered on time, we always provided what we said we'd provide, but I think he knew it was coming.

Chris:
Yeah. Well, once you start disappearing, it's like, "Oh, something funny is happening now." It's not fun anymore, right?

Cameron:
Yeah, exactly.

Chris:
So are they still in business today?

Cameron:
No.

Chris:
And how quickly did that come apart?

Cameron:
I mean, I told him I was out, and we wrapped up the projects we were on within a few months, and then it was... I mean, it took a year, total, to wrap it up because there's always loose ends [crosstalk 00:22:17]. Yeah.

Chris:
Wow. That's a slow divorce.

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Okay. So it took you a year to kind of extricate yourself, so when you said 2011, are you counting that as out or it was now 2012 that you're out?

Cameron:
No, we started... I got to get the numbers, we started the business around 2010, 2011.

Chris:
Oh okay, maybe I messed up on my [crosstalk 00:22:38]

Cameron:
Yeah. So around 2015 is when it came to an end.

Chris:
Oh, okay. That makes sense. Then that arcs you right into Motion Science.

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
I see. Okay. All right. So, you wrap up a [inaudible 00:22:51], and everybody is listening to this, I'm going to caution you right now, try not to get a partner or investor, because you have to go through the divorce and it's painful. I've done it more than once. So, take my word for it. It seems like that's the way to go. You mitigate your risks by sharing with somebody else, but when things go sideways, or you have a different vision, and it's the machine... If you're just by yourself, you get to make the decisions. And that's the beauty of being an entrepreneur is you get to call the shots. When you introduce a partner or investor, now you're held accountable to somebody else, and it's a difficult thing to go through. So here you are, you're done. He moves on, you move on. And how do you feel afterwards?

Cameron:
Well, I felt like a big failure. Just to throw in a little side bit, all during this time I had Project BlackBird, I also decided I was going to become a EDM producer, right?

Chris:
Oh, my gosh. Okay.

Cameron:
Yeah. So it's kind of like a midlife crisis, right?

Chris:
It is. Oh, my God, an EDM producer.

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
Okay.

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
That's [inaudible 00:23:57], okay. What [inaudible 00:23:58] about?

Cameron:
Oh, I've always loved electronic music. Always. And when EDM exploded, I was like, "Okay, well I decided that I could be a designer. So why can't I be a musician?" So I actually created [crosstalk 00:24:09]

Chris:
Why not?

Cameron:
... little home studio and started producing music. I produced a lot of music.

Chris:
Yeah. Any of it good?

Cameron:
I mean, some yeah, it's decent.

Chris:
Yeah? All right. Okay, we'll talk about your EDM career later. Let me just make a note of this, okay. All right. So you feel like a... I thought you were going to say something totally different. I thought you're going to say, "Man, I was dreading this moment. It was painful. We've gone through it a year later, and I feel like a new person."

Cameron:
No, I wish I felt-

Chris:
Gosh.

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
So this is hard upon hard, you fall and then you scrape your knee on the way down.

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
Gosh, okay, because I know this, I know this, and I feel this sometimes and sometimes I wonder if why I keep doing what I do is because I don't want to feel like a failure. Sometimes when things don't work, you got to just change, and you have to know when to cut your losses and walk away.

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
It hurts. As an entrepreneur, there's ego involved, and there's self esteem involved, and you think, "Man, if that fails, what else am I going to fail at?" So you hold on to it's so tight, and you stay in a relationship, a personal business relationship, longer than you're supposed to. But you did it, and you got through it, and now you're coming out of that, and then you decide to start the Motion Science stuff?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Yes. Okay, I can see the arc now, the parts and pieces make a lot of sense to me now. And that when you started a company, you were bringing in people, so now you're in that position of being an employer, and you see all these young people wanting work from you. And you're like, "Well, holy cow, you paid what? And this is all you know how to do?" So that begins this next arc in your life, right?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
So tell me how you started to develop first program? How did you launch it? What was the feedback?

Cameron:
Well, I started by creating this tutorial called 3D Camera Techniques, and it was just a 21 minute tutorial that I put up on YouTube. And I wanted to approach training in a different way, right? So I made it this beautiful, very succinct, to the point tutorial with... The whole thing was scripted out, it took me, I don't know, two months to produce this 21 minute video, because I wanted it to look beautiful. And it's like, "Well, let's try something different." And that's what I just... I threw that out there, and like I said, it started getting traction. And so from that point, gosh, it was... I created, let me think here, two other really, what I call, beautiful tutorials. And then I just started kind of pumping out content, because I was like, "Okay, well, I can't spend two months on a tutorial at a time." Right? It's not feasible.

Cameron:
So I started just kind of pumping out content for the next, I don't know, six months or so almost weekly. And then I hired a business coach, a life coach. And she was like, "You got to step this up, and you got to create some actual material that people would want to purchase." And so that's what I did. So I started with these three small tutorials, or not tutorials, trainings series, I priced them super low, way too low. Didn't value what I was teaching-

Chris:
How much were they?

Cameron:
Gosh, at that point, they were like $7.

Chris:
Wow, that is way too low.

Cameron:
Yeah. $7, $40, and $50, or something like that. But at the same time, I didn't know, in education it's like, "Well, what do I charge for this kind of stuff? What do they want to pay?" Because you can go two ways, in my opinion, you can either go to the masses at a lower price point, or you can go to the more serious select few at a higher price point.

Chris:
Right. And was some of this, like, "This is easy for me, and this shouldn't cost too much," or were you kind of debating it with yourself?

Cameron:
Yeah, I actually had one student in very particular, who actually reached out to me multiple times through email and told me I'm doing a disgrace to this industry by putting out too much great content for not enough money. And that kind of stuck with me, like, "What?"

Chris:
Wow.

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
Okay. So you create these three tutorials or courses or whatever they are, and you price them differently. And then your business coach says, "Let's figure out the business model here?"

Cameron:
Yeah, well, she started all personal with me, like, "Why am I not worth more?" Right? One side of me is saying, like, "I'm not worth this." So we had to work on all that stuff. And then it turned into the business.

Chris:
I see.

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
And what triggered you calling this person and how did you find this person?

Cameron:
Actually, through my wife, she's real big on self help, and she has been through the years and she knows so many different gurus all over the world. And she recommended this person to me and next thing I knew I'd signed up with her and was working with her for a year.

Chris:
Time for a quick break, but we'll be right back with more from Cameron Pierron.

Speaker 4:
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Chris:
Welcome back to our conversation with Cameron Pierron. Let's go forward in time now, I'm seeing the modern iteration of Motion Science TV. So tell me how we got where we got, why is it the way it is right now?

Cameron:
Well, I mean, I'm still learning so much about online education. Now I'm working with another coach, and I'm working on my messaging. So what you're seeing today is the messaging that... I'm always trying to be... The hardest part for me... So I'm an introvert, which I've read many things that you've written about yourself that you are as well. So for me to get out there, and talk to people and try to teach people things and put my messaging and sentences online, it's been very challenging for me.

Cameron:
But recently I've started learning just to come from the heart, and just say it and in words that people just... Like I'm just talking to whoever, I don't have to make it this big spiel about using this word and this word and make it so everyone just loves it, just be me. And so that's what you're seeing right now.

Chris:
Do you feel like when you talk about yourself or your work that you're being too much of a salesperson, does it feel inauthentic to you?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Okay. So it sounds to me like that your first life business coach, was a person who helped you kind of accept who you are, and to understand that you're worth more than you think you are. So there's some self esteem issues being worked through, she's helping you develop your own self confidence. But like we all know, just because you go to a couple of sessions, albeit for even a year, it doesn't fix all the things, right? Because there's some deep seated stuff, like still water runs deep kind of thing. So you're constantly battling that. And so many people in the creative industry suffer from some kind of imposter syndrome. And so when we talk about money or putting yourself out there, that's a scariest thing that they can hear.

Chris:
Okay, so now you're learning to craft this thing, more conversational. And I see that, I'm on your page. And it's a very stripped down site. And the thing that you offer up is, if you're interested, you're going to get to watch a free 20 minute training video if you give me your name and email. So you're doing a trip wire, you're asking for an email in exchange for something that somebody might find valuable. Is this that initial thing that you released, the mastering the 3D camera?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Okay. So that tutorial still lives?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Okay, fantastic. So now they're into your funnel, and then... I haven't put in my thing yet, but if I do that, where does it take me after that?

Cameron:
Well, it takes you to an email sequence that you start receiving emails every seven days. And it's just some more great content that I have that I've put out there that I think that will help you as a motion designer, right? And it leads you on this path. And ultimately, what I want is for... The courses I have for sale, I don't put those out there. You have to be on this email list, you have to start receiving my information. And if you're interested, then you will find out about these later on.

Chris:
Right. That's a very interesting strategy. So we're going to do a hard pivot now here, you guys, now we understand what Cameron has been up to, how he got to this point in his life and career and his inspiring background, I want to get into the business part, because this is the thrust of what we talk about usually.

Chris:
This very interesting. So you created some kind of automated email campaign that sequences itself out. And you've taken the deliberate strategy, it's very hard to find and buy this stuff, because if I was in a panic, I'm like, "Oh, my God, I've seen Motion Science on Facebook. I need to buy it right now, because I have a project due tomorrow." You can't do that, right?

Cameron:
If you dig deep enough, you will find links, but-

Chris:
I see, but it's buried in there somewhere?

Cameron:
Yes, it is buried in there.

Chris:
Okay. That's very interesting. So who did you learn this whole email marketing, funnel building thing from?

Cameron:
A little bit from the past coach I had, but more of it has been just self research. I have different sites I like to go to and I'm... So the platform I use is called Kajabi.

Chris:
Yep, I'm familiar with it.

Cameron:
Right. So I'm in a couple groups, other Kajabians, and I learned quite a bit off the community.

Chris:
That's no surprise to me. You've been a self taught, self learner person, so yeah, I'm sure you're reverse engineering everything.

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Yes. Okay. So how many emails deep into it before they reach the end of the sequence?

Cameron:
I believe there's nine emails. So it's about 40... Well, 70 something days, I think it is. I just changed. There was more like 15 emails over the course of 100 and something days, but I felt like it wasn't authentic. So I went in and revised it. And that's something I've been doing a lot of lately, just as I'm working through this and discovering who I really am and what I want to say, I'm constantly revising things.

Chris:
Okay. Let's just say somebody is super interested right now, they're like, "I don't want to hear the rest of this podcast. Get me to the end of the story." They're going to ask, "How much does the course cost and what's included?" So let's get to that part, and I want to continue on the story.

Cameron:
So what I really am pushing these days is a membership course-

Chris:
Membership, okay.

Cameron:
Yeah, it's called Stylecraft. And when I started Stylecraft, I did envisage it just as a membership, that you could come into at any time, and you pay a monthly fee, but it turned into an actual course. So it's a 52 week course where you get content every single week, I only open up the course twice a year. And we do live calls and the whole shebang. So you get project files, you get live calls, you get 52 weeks of training videos, we have a private community, all that jazz. So it's a lot.

Chris:
Okay, so how much is it?

Cameron:
It is currently priced at $15,95.

Chris:
$15,95. And you only open this up twice a year?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
So if I'm on the email sequence, how does that work? How do I get in if I'm interested already?

Cameron:
Well, so I have a waiting list that you can add your name to, which I've... That waiting list is building up for 2019. But also, once you're on my list, when I actually do, what I call, a launch, of my products, when I relaunch them, you will get another email sequence at that point twice a year talking about Stylecraft.

Chris:
Okay, I see.

Cameron:
So I've also got a course on freelancing as well, called The Freelance Effect. And that has been a course that's launched four times a year, because it includes a lot of live components to it. But I actually have just recently revised it, and I'm getting ready to relaunch it as an evergreen, so you can buy it at any time. It just does not have the live component to it anymore. And that's going to be $397.

Chris:
I see. You have a very interesting business [inaudible 00:37:27]. Man, my head is like, "Whoa." I want to compare notes and just like, "Okay, [inaudible 00:37:31], okay, what are we doing? What are you doing?" Okay, so how many people can enroll in the Stylecraft membership?

Cameron:
Well, I haven't hit my limit yet. So this first group that just came in, I just launched it in August 20th. And the first group, there was 45 people that jumped right in. And I closed it down, I only leave the, what I call the cart, open for five to seven days, usually. But then I already have a waiting list of that same amount of people for 2019. And that's, again, getting on that waiting list, you have to kind of dig deep to even find that page to get on this list. So that tells me... I would love to have 100 people in there this next go around.

Chris:
You can accommodate 100 people in the next go around with the live calls. Do you give critiques to their projects?

Cameron:
I do. If they decide to upload their projects to me, I will do live critiques.

Chris:
Okay, this sounds super fascinating. So I'm going to get really geeky on you just for half second here. When you're doing these automated email campaigns, are you doing this within the Kajabi ecosystem? Or is this an additional tool that you're using?

Cameron:
It's within Kajabi.

Chris:
Oh, that's interesting.

Cameron:
I started with ActiveCampaign, but I moved into Kajabi.

Chris:
Okay, so then you can just continue to refine and edit that sequence and control when it gets released, so you can compress or expand the amount of time in between each email?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Okay. All right. And then, I'm just curious, out of the people who sign up for the demo and the email sequence that they get, how many of them actually convert into being either a customer of The Freelance Effect or Stylecraft?

Cameron:
I don't have the numbers for that, right, I don't keep real good track of numbers. I do know my conversion rates from cold traffic that comes to my site for the trip wire, it's like 11% to 12% conversion, which is really well.

Chris:
Yeah.

Cameron:
So I'd have to go in my numbers of who actually converts, but the thing is, is when I started this, I was putting out different trip wires and I was getting a lot of spam email addresses, right? So I would say I've got... a third of my list is probably spam email. And so now I've changed into this double opt-in system. So I get a lot less opt ins, I'm still converting at 11% and 12%, but the opt ins are much more quality opt ins, these are people that are more willing to, I think, purchase my products. Now I also have those three products I talked about earlier. I sell a ton of those, but they're still priced at 100 bucks and 85 bucks. So [crosstalk 00:40:29]

Chris:
Where do I find that?

Cameron:
You still have to be on the list. Yeah.

Chris:
Okay, this sounds bananas to me, but I want to keep going down this path with you. Okay, it's interesting. Okay, and the more I talk to you, it's like, "And then there's this, and then there's that." Okay, so how many products... how many SKUs do you have? You have Stylecraft? You have-

Cameron:
Five.

Chris:
Five. Okay, so exactly what you said, there's nothing left. Okay. There's nothing else behind door number three.

Cameron:
No, there is some stuff coming though.

Chris:
Okay, are you running all this stuff by yourself?

Cameron:
Yeah, I have a writer, but that's it.

Chris:
Okay. All right. So I see, you found your niche, you've built up this funnel. And I think I know what happens, somebody just wants to get the free mastering the 3D camera file, so they can give you a junk email, so they can just watch it, right?

Cameron:
Right.

Chris:
And then they don't care. I mean, my son does this, it never even occurred to me before that I should create a junk email account just to sign up for stuff, because I actually think, you know what, it's a fair trade. If you give me something that I want, I'm going to give you my email address, and just don't kill me with spam, otherwise, I'll just unsubscribe, and that's fair.

Cameron:
Right.

Chris:
But other people are like, "No, I'm going to hold back my real email. I'm just going to give you junk." To me that's dishonest, that's my opinion.

Cameron:
It is dishonest. Yeah, I agree. But when I do send email blasts about product launches, my open rate's in the 40% range, which is great as well, [crosstalk 00:41:59]

Chris:
Yeah, that's very high. Yeah. Okay. Now, I don't know how you arrived at this decision, but it's fascinating to me, because we want to make it as easy as possible for people to buy our stuff, and we want to give them multiple ways of doing it. And I've never thought to kind of use a funnel like this, where there's only one... Not only, but you're saying it's quite hard to find products, and actually how to buy stuff from you. And what's the strategy, what's the thinking behind this, because it sounds insane to me?

Cameron:
Well, the thinking is that people want what they can't have, right? So if people know that these... I mean, I get constant emails like, "Where's your courses? What do you offer? You have to sell something." And so that people are very intrigued by this mystery around what is Motion Science? So when they get that trip wire and they see 3D Camera Techniques, and they get on the email sequence, and they see several other videos I have for them that are just free, they realize that there's a lot of quality content here and I'm setting them up to... I shouldn't say I'm setting them up, but I'm preparing them for when there is an offer, like, "Here's a product, do you want to buy this?" They're more apt to be okay, like, "Okay, I've seen what this guy has produced, what he's given me for free." And there's kind of like that reciprocity of like, "Okay, I'm going to give him some money for this product." And it's worked so far. I mean, in terms of freelancing, I'm pretty much trying to wrap up my freelance career at this point.

Chris:
Right. Good for you, man. Good for you. We're kind of moving down... Now this is where our two paths kind of start to dovetail into each other. So you've run the whole gamut, you've been in-house, you've been a freelancer, you started your own company, and now you're into a productize business, right? And now you've got passive income more or less. Okay.

Cameron:
Yep.

Chris:
Take me through your sales. 2015, or, yeah, 2015 you start this thing, and then you're saying in the last year, I guess, this year, 2018, is when you started to really focus in on this and try to make it something. So I will share with you our numbers as well, just kind of track along with you, okay? So can you share those numbers?

Cameron:
So, I think up until through the end of 2017, I had sold like $10,000 worth of stuff, right? And that was $7, $40... So it's a lot of [crosstalk 00:44:30]

Chris:
That was a lot then. Holy cow.

Cameron:
Yes, right?

Chris:
Yeah.

Cameron:
So when I got serious this year, I want to say, I'm about 165 right now, for this year, but I plan on that increasing quite a bit next year.

Chris:
what are your goals for next year?

Cameron:
Well, I'd love to hit 400.

Chris:
Okay, so pretty big jump there.

Cameron:
Very big jump.

Chris:
Okay. I want to put this into context for a couple of people. And I think your story is going to inspire so many people because of who you are, where you are, and how you did it, okay? And I'll explain that in a little bit. So let's look at this. This year, you're on track to do $165,000 a year. When you were a freelancer at the height of your freelancing career, prior to you starting Project BlackBird, what were you doing annually?

Cameron:
220.

Chris:
Okay, good. And then when you were a business owner with BlackBird, what was your total gross take home including owners or officers dividends?

Cameron:
I would say my best year was... Oh, man, I would say it's probably about 350.

Chris:
Okay, this all makes sense to me now. Okay. So guys, let me recap, since I'm the numbers guy here, let's kind of look at this. At the height of his freelance career, he was doing really well, almost a quarter million dollars, $220,000 working remotely, and I bet $220,000 goes a long way in Kansas City, you must be balling in Kansas City, doing that kind of number, right?

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
I'm just going to try to make this as grounded as possible. When I was a kid, like 18 years old, my brother asked me, "What kind of job, what kind of career do you want to have?" I said, "I don't know, but it would be fantastic if I could do $100,000 a year." And I don't forget that conversation ever. So when you're doing a quarter million dollars, as a freelancer, life is good.

Chris:
And then you go into starting a company, and then you get all the headaches, dealing with the partner, managing people, and taking on projects that you don't necessarily want to take on because you have to just manage the overhead. Your best year was about $130,000 more. So to put that in perspective, you guys, you were taking on a lot, only to make a little bit more, which you can see now why you're like, "What am I doing? This is not fun. Now we're just doing work that I'm not proud of." And it's just like... And then you got to go through that grind like, "Oh, now it's become a job." So it's interesting, you start a company thinking you're going to get all this independence, freedom, you get to do what you want. What people don't realize it's sometimes the opposite of what you want.

Cameron:
Exactly.

Chris:
Now, you can totally see that. So now, you're taking a big step back by running the company, but it's for the long game.

Cameron:
Yep.

Chris:
So we can see now, you're going to be at the lowest you're going to be as a professional freelancer or a business owner. And now you're a different kind of business owner, but to make a productized business, it's tough. And we can see that from 2017 to 2018, if you were in Inc. Magazine, you would probably be the number one fastest growing company in America, because to go from $10,000 to... That's 16,500% growth or some crazy amount of growth right there, right? That's ridiculous, bonkers. Okay. So now you've kind of figured out your business model, and now you're going to kind of optimize it and continue to grow it, right? So we're looking at 400K, this is fantastic.

Chris:
Now, I promised I would share this, and I've shared this in different places, but let's keep this together on this episode. The first year we started The Futur, which was previously called [The School 00:48:18], we did a whopping $17,000 in revenue. So if we wanted to do a new business, this was not the model or the path to pursue. And so everybody's that ever started something, to sell a kit, a course, or anything, you're going to relate to this, because the first year is hard, it is really hard, because basically, we're losing a lot more money than we're making. And if we fast forward, so in the next year, year two, I think we did about 50K, year three, we did 165K, and we're into year four, and... I'm sorry, year four is like $540,000.

Chris:
So every year, we've been growing about three 300%, three times. And it's been fantastic. And every year I'm like, "It can't continue down this path. It's just not possible." But here we are in our fourth or fifth year of doing this, and we're going to hit $1.6 million.

Cameron:
Wow, that's awesome.

Chris:
Right? But let's just keep this in perspective, because if you keep doing this and you hit your goal of 400,000, it's just you, there are no royalties that you have to pay, you're not keeping up a whole machine going, right? So you're going to probably put more money in your pocket than I am. I already can almost guarantee you that.

Cameron:
So how many people are in The Futur?

Chris:
Too many people. Oh my God, we have too many people. Okay, we are, I think, six people full time, okay? And we're absorbing the rest of the service side, so we're going to be about 12 people any day now. And so I'm like, "Oh, my God, I cannot pay everybody salaries, and the building that we live in... or that we're in, and all the equipment that we have, this not going to happen." So this is where things get really tough for us financially. So we have to hit this 1.8 on our way to hopefully doing three and a half million dollars next year where then it all makes sense.

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
So you're in that same place, we're all going to write... 2019 is going to be a big year for both you and I.

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Because then you're going to realize more money than you've ever made, whether you're a freelancer or a business owner, and then I get to validate my business model and say, "Look, you 12 people, we all have jobs, and we get to live the dream. We get to be the masters of our own destiny, and we get to do whatever it is that we want." So man, I'm just hoping that 2019 is an amazing year for both of us, that nothing crazy happens in this country that we can just keep moving forward.

Cameron:
Yeah, I agree.

Chris:
Right?

Cameron:
It'll be an amazing year.

Chris:
Yes. Okay. So when you're doing this, what have you learned looking back now? Let's just pretend like we're 2019, it's all worked out for both of us. And you're looking back, it's like, "What has happened for all this to come together for you?"

Cameron:
Well, no, I mean... Rephrase the question for me.

Chris:
Yeah. Okay. I asked the question poorly, in order for you to hit your goals by the end of 2019, what kind of problems or things that do you feel like you need to solve? Because I know what my problems are.

Cameron:
Well, my biggest problem right now is this Stylecraft membership, right? As I'm moving through this week by week, it's a 52 week course. And I'm building the content, sometimes that week, sometimes two, three, four weeks in advance, but never much more than that. It's like I need to get... And then there's going to be Stylecraft two and three, as well. And I want to get to the point where everything is just built out. And I can focus solely on this live component and interacting with my community. And I can continue to build more things that I want to put out there to the world for them to see.

Cameron:
It's getting this content built. People don't realize how much time is involved. It's week after week, it's like I'm... First of all, when I said I'm going to build Stylecraft, I had to map it all out, I had to be crystal clear on, "This is what it's going to do. This is what the content is going to be." And then after you get to that point, when you start actually building the content, you realize like, "Okay, well, what exactly is that content? And what should it say? And how should I say it? And what examples should I show?" And then a lot of these I'm building projects for them to download those project files and work along with me. I'm a perfectionist, I like things to look amazingly cool. So I put so much time into building these projects that I just want to get that done. So I can focus on what's next, what am I going to... How can I improve my products versus just getting the content in there?

Chris:
Right. Okay. It is self evident if you've bumped into any of your content on Facebook, so let's first just tell people where they can find you on Facebook, is is facebook.com/motionscience?

Cameron:
It's motionscience.tv. That's the only one, everywhere else it's Motion Science.

Chris:
I see. Okay, so motionscience.tv is the website, but on Facebook it's just Motion Science?

Cameron:
No, it's still motionscience.tv.

Chris:
Oh, .tv, I see.

Cameron:
Yeah, because someone else had Motion Science.

Chris:
Oh, I hate that.

Cameron:
Yeah, I know.

Chris:
Oh, my God.

Cameron:
But [crosstalk 00:53:40]

Chris:
And are they doing anything with it?

Cameron:
No, they're not.

Chris:
These squatters.

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Okay. I'm glad you cleared that up. So I see, it's motionscience.tv on the website and on Facebook, but on Instagram and Twitter and all that stuff, you're Motion Science, right? Is that what you mean?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Okay, perfect. All right. So you guys definitely want to check it out. So here's the thing, let's just be really honest, and just brutal about this. If I'm scanning my Facebook timeline, there's a lot of garbage that's out there. But then I'm scanning, I'm like, "Whoa, what is this?" And I see one of your demos, and it's designed well, and it's got what I would consider the skill sets that you need, if you're a contemporary motion artist. It's not character animation, it's just really beautiful movements, and bringing on typography and graphic elements and breaking things apart. And you're quite masterful at creating depth and parallax with a 3D camera. And I just appreciate the design, and we've done this dance, you and I, to try and get you on the show, and I'm just glad that we're here now.

Chris:
So you guys, if you see the work... And Cameron's saying, "I put a lot of time and energy into these things," it is self evident. So in order for you to do this, I mean, you're entering into the world of pedagogy, the theory and practice of education. And so I'm just curious, when you said you have no art training, what did you study in school? Did you go to school?

Cameron:
No. So ever since I was little, I always wanted to be a director. And so in high school I was set on going to USC, it was either-

Chris:
Oh, wow.

Cameron:
Yeah, it was USC or NYU, the two top film directing schools at the time. So that's all I... I was a very well educated student, good grades, all that stuff. I applied to those two schools. NYU, rejects me, USC accepts me. And I was ecstatic, I'm going to USC, I'm going to be a director, and my parents, God bless them, but my low money conscious came from them, or they contributed a lot to it, and they were like, "Good luck. You're on your own, figure it out." And I was 18, I freaked out looking at the tuition costs. So I'm like, "I'm not going to take out..." I think it was $200,000 at that time, this was in 1995. And I was like, "There's no way." So I had no backup school, so the next thing I know... I grew up in Wichita, Kansas, and there's a school there called Wichita State University.

Cameron:
So I sign up last minute, go for one semester, and am miserable, and so I dropped out of college. And I start working for... I was a PA for a little company. I mean, that was my education. I never took it, there was no art classes in high school. It was all like math, and I was very serious about my classes, and there wasn't time for me to take an art class, so.

Chris:
I see.

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
Wow. Okay. I guess this, so... And people need to know this. It's not easy to get into USC, come on. It is not easy. So you must have been a very good student or wrote a killer essay, or combination thereof, extracurricular activities, I don't know.

Cameron:
Well, I had two short films I made.

Chris:
Okay. I see.

Cameron:
That's what got me into the program.

Chris:
You had proof of concept basically.

Cameron:
Yeah.

Chris:
You're not some wannabe film theory guy.

Cameron:
Right.

Chris:
Okay. And then the sticker shock is ridiculous, and then your parents... And you talked about this kind of, is it considered Midwest, Kansas City?

Cameron:
Yes.

Chris:
Okay. So you had this Midwest thing, and I get it because I talk to people and they're like, "Yeah, that's a lot of money. And maybe we shouldn't spend money that way, maybe there's other options." Right?

Cameron:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chris:
Okay, so it's not like you went through this four year program and have great models to study. So where do you get your instincts from, in terms of like, "This would make a good course," this is how you should teach stuff, because there are people who have been part of institutions, for decades, that are not great teachers?

Cameron:
Right. Well, I still question my ability to teach, right? And I'm still learning, and the best thing for me is when I do these live calls with different students, and I get their feedback, or they leave me comments in our community, it's still every single week, I'm like, "Okay, I taught that well," or, "I could have improved that," or... I'm actually constantly in shock of what I think that my students will... To me, it's something kind of mid level, and they'll think of it as very high level, right? So I'm still learning.

Cameron:
But the big thing was that YouTube, when I'd watch these... Because when I started motion... Just being a freelancer... or not a freelancer, when I started in motion design, in general, YouTube wasn't... I don't even know if it was around back then. If it was, it wasn't much of anything. So if I wanted to learn something, I had to read it in a book, or I had to just figure it out on my own. And then when YouTube came along, and all of a sudden there's all these tutorials out there, to me there's a lot of crap, right? There's all this fluff. It's just like, "Edit this thing down, be concise with what you're trying to teach us," and whatever the video may be about. And it's just like, there has to be a better way, right, for people to learn this stuff.

Cameron:
And it also was very... A lot of the stuff on YouTube was very, I guess, generalized, it doesn't get very deep at all. And I like to get very deep in what I'm trying to explain and what I want to teach. So that's, I guess, a combination of those things.

Chris:
Well, I totally understand what you're saying. When you teach somebody and you actually see their reaction, it teaches you more about how to be a better teacher. So that expression, that cliche that people say, it's like, "I've learned more from my students than I've ever taught them," is true because you live in your own bubble and you think this must be easy, or this is really difficult. And then you see it in the faces of other people and their reaction, then you realize what truly resonates with them, where they're leaning in and where like, "Huh? Cameron, what are you thinking? I don't understand this at all." Then you go back to the board, and you iterate and you fix and you change.

Chris:
This is the thing that excites me the most about people like you who are in the education space, but are doing it a totally different way. So unlike in school where you sit around and you come up with a curriculum and you teach it and you kind of just... you're not really incentivized to make it better, because you get paid regardless, right? Whereas you and I, it's like, "If it don't work, we're not getting paid." And we don't feel good about ourselves, because there's a one-to-one relationship between the hard earned money that person puts into your hands, that you want to give value back to them, right? Whereas the schools act as a buffer, so the student gives the institution the money, and then the teacher gets a small pittance of that amount, and so like, "Well, why should I do better?" So I think this is why we need to change the business model, the teaching model, and to incentivize instructors to do and create the most amazing classes ever.

Cameron:
Yeah, I totally agree. And my students constantly tell me that they love the way that I teach, that I do teach differently. And for me, that was always like, "Okay, well, why is that? What makes me so much different than Joe down the street teaching motion design?" But I think it's maybe partially because I am coming from the place that you're talking about.

Chris:
Okay, is there anything that you would do differently looking back on your career, being part of that first generation, first wave of motion designer, that if you had to do over, you would do differently? Either as a freelancer, business owner or running your own product company?

Cameron:
Well, from our product company, I'd do a lot of things differently, I think. I jumped in not knowing anything, and I spent a lot of... there's a lot of wasted time, I guess, and I'm not one... I like to get things done as efficiently and quickly as possible, but still at a high level. And I feel like with my company, because I've decided to do everything on my own, I haven't hired people to help me who specialize in certain things, even things like Facebook, and social media, I've decided to teach myself everything. So there's a lot of wasted time that I feel like I could have just approached it differently.

Cameron:
But I'm also not one to look back and regret things because what's the point of having regret? So in terms of my motion design career, there's nothing I would've changed about it, I think that it was the path I was supposed to follow. And it has led me to the person I am today, which I'm very proud of and happy with. And I wouldn't change anything about that.

Chris:
Fantastic. Here's the message that I want you guys who are listening to this podcast to take away from this, if nothing else, okay? There's a lot to take away. But Cameron is from the Midwest, so he's comes from a small town, he's primarily self taught, reverse engineers everything, and is able to work remotely from where he's at with some of the biggest companies in the world. And the reason why I need to make a point of this is so many people think, "Well, you're only successful because you're in LA. You're only successful because you went to that school, or had these opportunities fall in your lap, because..." I think they're looking for permission to let themselves off the hook.

Chris:
So it doesn't matter to me, just hearing your story, where you're from, you could be in LA, you can be in New York, or you could be in Kansas City, or Egypt or wherever you're at. If you do work that is at the level in which it's going to get the attention of somebody like Kyle Cooper, that's what you need to focus on. And then you need to be brave enough to send your work out to people and get your career going. And if you're really just jonesing to be where Cameron is, and where I'm at, you can skip all that stuff, you can actually just start to think about creating something that's going to be useful and helpful to other people, at any price point, whether it's $7, $10, or $100. And you can realize if you are willing to put in the work, to continue to get better, you can actually play the long game and potentially make more money than you've ever made in your life or thought possible.

Chris:
And that's the beauty of the world and economy we live in right now, guys. So that's it. That's what I wanted you guys to get from this because I'm hearing your story, Cameron, and I was like, "Wow, this is super cool." And it doesn't hurt that you do killer work. How do people get in touch with you, Cameron?

Cameron:
They go to motionscience.tv, that's the easiest way to find me, or you can just email me directly cameron@motionscience.tv.

Chris:
Cameron, I've seen some of your videos, but you also have a great voice, so you were made to do this so I wish you nothing but success and let's smash those goals for 2019.

Cameron:
Let's do it. Thank you so much. Hey, this is Cameron Pierron with motionscience.tv and you are listening to The Futur. (silence)

Greg:
Thanks for joining us this time. If you haven't already, subscribe to our show on your favorite podcasting app and get a new, insightful episode from us every week. The Futur podcast is hosted by Chris Do and produced by me, Greg Gunn. Thank you to Anthony Barro for editing and mixing this episode, and thank you to Adam Sanborn for our intro music.

Greg:
If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor by rating and reviewing our show on Apple Podcasts, it'll help us grow the show and make future episodes that much better. Have a question for Chris or me? Head over to thefutur.comm/heychris, and ask away. We read every submission and we just might answer yours in a later episode.

Greg:
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