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Chris Do & Greg Gunn

We did it! 100 episodes of The Futur Podcast. To celebrate this milestone we invited members from our community to join us on Zoom for a live Q&A with Chris Do and Greg Gunn.

100th Episode: Live Q&A
100th Episode: Live Q&A

100th Episode: Live Q&A

Ep
100
Sep
28
With
Chris Do & Greg Gunn
Or Listen On:

Celebrating 100 Episodes

We did it! 100 episodes of The Futur Podcast. To celebrate this milestone we invited members from our community to join us on Zoom for a live Q&A with Chris Do and Greg Gunn.

Big thanks to everyone that joined in the festivities and asked questions along the way. And thank you for your support and for allowing us into your ears for this long. Here’s to 100 more!

Thanks to Framer for sponsoring this episode.

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Episode Transcript

Chris:
The way my little brain works is like, "I'm going to figure it out. I'm going to try lots of things. I'm going to read some articles. I'm going to watch some videos. I'm going to keep working at this until I figure it out," because I'm just really possessed that way. I know I have a problem. I have a problem. I'm addicted to learning. I don't play to come in second place. When I start to realize I want to get good at something, it is all consuming.

Greg:
Hey, it's Greg, and welcome to the 100th episode of The Futur Podcast.

Chris:
We're here, Greg.

Greg:
Go clap. Amazing. That's super crazy to say out loud. That's a lot. 100 is a lot of episodes. I'm hoping we can have a lot of fun today and answer your questions, but also just anyone listening out there, thank you, first of all, for supporting us for this long and we've managed to keep it going to 100. Just so you know, because you can't see, I'm here with our host and The Futur CEO, Chris.

Chris:
Hey, Greg.

Greg:
Hey. We are on a Zoom call. You might have heard of this software with a whole bunch of people staring back at us and it's really cool and weird and we'll see how this goes. I think before anything, Chris, congratulations on making it to 100 How do you feel about that?

Chris:
I feel pretty awesome about it. 100 is a huge milestone, but I also need to thank you, Greg, for helping to make it consistent and reliable and just to keep us on track. Once you took over the show, I think we're able to get things done in a systematic way and it's been really good.

Greg:
Thanks, man. It's been a lot of fun. I guess for those who haven't been listening very long, I've only been working with Chris on the podcast since like December of 2019, so not even a year. I think we've made great strides. That's actually something I wanted to talk with you about, Chris, because I know very little about the podcast prior to me coming on into last December. What was going on before you were like, "Hey, get in here. Why did you start the podcast at all?"

Chris:
Good question. The podcast is an extension of just me listening to our audience. On YouTube, they would comment quite often, "Please make this a podcast. Please make this a podcast," and I wasn't quite sure why they would want that. Then when I dug into it a little deeper, it turns out that a lot of people want to be able to listen while they're doing other things. Especially if you're on mobile, you can have YouTube open and turn it off because the YouTube video will stop streaming. For some other people, having consistent high-bandwidth content meant that maybe their data plan was being drained or something else.
We started to port over some of these episodes on our YouTube channel over to the podcast. I was thinking, "This is going to be it. We're just going to translate up," or not translate but just, "move the audio files over and we will be done." You know how I am, when I start something, I start to think about, "Well, this is a totally different medium. There's no visuals. If we're talking about things that you're seeing on screen, it'd be redundant to say them when you're presenting them visually. We needed to go down this different path." I started to dig into a lot of podcasts, studying them, analyzing them and trying to create something that was very different and unique from the YouTube channel.

Greg:
That makes sense. I feel like I was one of those people, even though I work at The Futur. I was like, "Man, I wish I could just listen to this on my commute," because sometimes Chris will come into a meeting or something and he's like, "Okay, so last few episodes on the show, you guys," talking about YouTube and I'm like, "Shoot, I did not watch those because they're like an hour and I didn't have time, but if I could listen to them-

Chris:
How could you do that to us, Greg?

Greg:
I mean I haven't watched all 800 videos, yeah. I've watched a lot of them, but I see the value there. That's interesting. I had no idea. I thought I was under the impression like, "I guess we should have a podcast," and that's it.

Chris:
I don't mean to say it like this, but initially it was started mostly as an afterthought. It wasn't the platform of choice and it's something I talk about a lot which is, "To lean into your strengths." We make videos for a living for a long time, right, Greg?

Greg:
Yeah.

Chris:
We know how to animate. We know how to design things in a visual way to make them very compelling. Of course, video is going to be our natural platform for self-expression, whereas I don't think I have a particularly interesting voice and it doesn't register to me that this is something that people would want to tune in for. If you have substance, if you can say things that connect with people, they'll forgive you for your lame voice as is such my case.

Greg:
For the record, I enjoy your voice. I don't think ...

Chris:
Thanks.

Greg:
... it's lame at all, but the substance stuff, for sure. Well, the podcast, it's come quite a long way. What's interesting is before we started the brand new season, which I think happened two days ago or fourth season which is crazy too, I was going through and figuring out like, "Are there any really good old episodes that we could clean up, make more listenable?" I guess for lack of a better term, and one of our most popular ones was the second episode with Frank Shi where you talked about just like, "Okay, it's super Frank. Here's how you here's everything you need to start a business?" and it's a lot of, oh God, boring stuff or intimidating.
It's like, "I did this to get into the work. I don't want to do all this," but I went back and I listened to it again, so we could clean it up and release it. I'm like, "Dude, this thing is gold." It's like four years later this holds up so well and I feel like every single person that wants to start or create business should listen to it.

Chris:
There's something very interesting about that particular YouTube episode that you're talking about with our friend, Frank Shi, who used to intern for us, who has gone on to be a pretty successful entrepreneur himself in the creative space, is that it was the first time I actually sat down with somebody to try to teach them about pricing. This was not something that I thought I was going to be doing on our channel. The reaction to that video and the subsequent videos that center around money and talking about money in the creative space have actually done really well and it's become something we've been known for.
It's I guess surprise, no surprise that that episode has worked well also as a podcast. I think so many people are starving for that kind of information. I remember many times, Greg, when we were just starting out back in like '97, to about 2000-ish, I had no idea how to price projects. I had no idea how to pitch projects and we were going against the giants of the industry at that time. Within the motion space, that would have been imaginary forces. Every time we went to battle with them, we'd lost and it was just heartbreaking. I remember thinking to myself what I wouldn't do to be a fly on the wall in the producer's room, in the creative director's room and just to witness what was going on, so that I would have a fighting chance.
It was one of those weird moments in my life that a few years out of school, I'm going against the biggest, most established, most decorated design firm in our space ever, ever in the history of companies. I was flattered that we were being considered in that same conversation, but I was so bummed that we kept losing and it's disheartening. If you talk about like testing your mettle, going at it like again and again for really big jobs, for brands that you love and would love to work on like Nike and Nissan and losing every single time what I would have given to be a fly on that wall.
Years later, we get to pay it forward to send the elevator back down to the ground floor for people who are in that exact situation where they're going up against the big player in their space, whether it's in a city or that state or that country, but we get to help them. We get to share this and I want to encourage other people in the creative space to follow suit. I'm still waiting for them to do this, Greg, but they haven't followed our lead on this for whatever reason. They don't want to share this kind of information.

Greg:
It's a lot of work. It's a lot of extra work. I'm sure a lot of them are still in love with the craft and the business itself and navigating that. It's hard. I like, in a weird way, letting go of that, to move and transition to The Futur and become a teacher, become an educator. I think it's awesome. I love that you decided to do this. If you would have asked me even three years ago that this is what we'd be doing right now, also in pandemic, I'd be like, "You're out of your mind. No way. That sounds completely bananas."

Chris:
Here we are.

Greg:
Here we are now. We just talked about where the podcast came from. It's changed and morphed quite a bit. What do you think about what we do now? What have you learned along the way?

Chris:
I think in the beginning, we were just looking for warm bodies to join us on the podcast, so friends and friends of friends. It was just through that kind of network. I think there's something really wonderful about that because there was some kind of connection with every person that's on the show. The way that the show has evolved now is that we get decent amount of downloads per episode, relatively speaking for a design specific channel that talks about design, creativity, mindset and business, that authors and their agents are reaching out to us. Greg, you have to deal with that because they're requesting to be on the show all the time now.
Something strange is happening where I don't have that initial connection to this person that I'm about to talk to, so that's a little different and it's required me to watch their shows or read parts of their book or the whole book or read their blog or interviews from other things. It's a strange thing. It's not naturally, "I wanted to talk to this person there further on the show." It's through some vetting process that you take them through, Greg, and you and I decide, "This will be nice for our audience, our community to have this conversation." That part has changed a bit, but I'd actually love to get back into this conversational part when it's you and I talking or some of our friends getting together to talk about what topics are most compelling to us in this moment in time.

Greg:
Agreed. That must be strange to just meet a stranger over Zoom for the first time and then try to get deep with them over the course of 50 minutes. For what it's worth, I think you do a pretty good job, especially relative to a lot of other interviews that I listened to. I think also that, like, we did this one episode, "Hey, Chris," a few episodes back because you constantly get asked questions. I'm like, "All right, let's just find a place to capture this stuff and then maybe we can use it." I really enjoyed that episode. From what I can tell on the downloads, so did our listeners, I see a couple of heads nodding, so okay, that's a good sign.
I would love to do more of that too, maybe like topics centered and bring some other voices into the mix too. I think that'd be great. Maybe some Pro Group members that kind of makes sense.

Chris:
We have some plans.

Greg:
I hope you guys will be up for that.

Chris:
Yes, we do.

Greg:
I think we can wax poetic about what we've done for a while, but I really like to talk about the future of The Futur Podcast and what we have in mind and also hear from everyone who's joined us on this Zoom call if you have questions or thoughts or anything you want to discuss. I'm okay with keeping this pretty open ended, Chris. I don't know if you want to put some guide rails on the conversation, but-

Chris:
I do. I think it's a good time to bring our live audience in. There are I think about 40+ people on this call with us today. Many of them or most of them are from our future pro community. They know me quite well and I hope that there's a comfort level to talk. The one parameter I would like to put on this is I don't want to turn this into a pro call necessarily. It's not necessary for business coaching, which I'm happy to do by the way, but for us to have a moment where we can talk about the things that we don't normally get a chance to talk about, let's go there. Let's go to that deep place where we have to be vulnerable and open and share. I'm happy to go there. Whoever wants to kick it off, I'm all ears.

Greg:
Chris, do you mind if I kick it off?

Chris:
Go ahead, please.

Greg:
I just remembered my question that I was going to ask you and then I promise I will shut up and everyone else can jump in. While we're here on a podcast, talking about podcasts, after working on this for a while and then doing more research and really getting to know the world of podcasting and as a failed musician, myself, I'm like, "It'd be cool to start a podcast. I understand the benefits and I have some ideas, but let's say someone's out there listening to this and they're also interested in that. How do you think that might help their business? Do you have any advice or suggestions for a way to use a podcast as maybe a content or education tool for someone to work in their own creative business and how those two relate?

Chris:
Yes, absolutely. Something that my English literature teacher told me way back in the day was that you we all should participate in journaling. Write down our thoughts and I didn't really understand why that was important, and in different classes, they would say, "Go by notebook and then fill at, write in it every single day, write the beginning of the day, write the end of the day, just reflect on what's happened." Of course, you would start there for class, but I have to admit, I wasn't very good at keeping a journal. I don't know how many people listening to this in high school or junior high started it and never stopped, but later on in life, I came upon people who I really admired and looked up to people like Stefan Sagmeister who is a design superstar.
He's known for his thinking, for his ideas, for his books and the way that he's able to interpret and mix design with some kind of philosophy. I read in his book, one of the most important things is to journal. Now, I'm an adult, a professional and I'm still not journaling, Greg, and I still don't know why it's important. As I'm approaching 50 years old now, I start to realize, "What a mistake I've made most of my life," which is I've not wrote down my thoughts to know what it is that I'm thinking. That's really why you write, to have a conversation with yourself and it could just be a way of being grateful to have that mindset, right?
I also grew up in a very religious Catholic family and I prayed every night. I also wasn't sure what was the benefit of praying, but praying in a way, whether you are spiritual or believe in God is a form of meditation, to have a conversation with yourself, to reflect back on the day and to remind yourself of what you're grateful for. You pray before you eat. You pray before you go to sleep. You pray whenever you need help, when you're feeling down and low. This habit I think is good to have. Now, how does this connect to your question about businesses and why people should have a podcast?
Well, if journaling is not your form of self-expression, if writing a blog post is not your form of self-expression, perhaps recording your voice and speaking out loud and just thinking about what you think about will help you learn about who you are and what you want to do in the world. If you can do this consistently, you can build an audience who shows up to hear these thoughts. They'll help to confirm some of your thinking as, "Wow, this is really helpful and I didn't know it was helpful to anybody else. What happens slowly as you start to develop some kind of authority to be a thought leader or to have some kind of expert status and I think that's really beneficial to you, especially if you want to be seen in that light and I don't know who doesn't.
I don't know who starts design school or business school only to want to be remained a hobbyist, an amateur their whole life. I think that's the path we work towards, right? If you join a gym, if you take a boxing class, you want to keep growing and progressing. The end degree or the where you get to the end is to achieve some level of mastery. Of course, the learning never stops. Articulating yourself through words, through spoken voice, through visuals, through video, through stop motion animation or drawings or doodles, however you express yourself, do it. Podcasting relatively speaking is so easy.

Greg:
I never thought about podcasting like that. I think that reflects the kinds of podcasts I listened to but I sympathize with your journal because I've tried it so many times and I'll go for a week and then just give up and I'm like, "I'd rather do anything else." Perhaps that is a great purpose for podcasting.

Chris:
I think so.

Greg:
I'm done talking.

Chris:
All right.

Greg:
Who has a question for Chris?

Annalee:
I have a question. Can I ask a question?

Greg:
Yes, absolutely.

Annalee:
I listen to a lot of the episodes. I love it. I love to listen when I drive car. It's the best thing to do. I want to ask Chris, if you have a special moment you remember from one of the episodes like one special moment that you really can think of and for what reason?

Chris:
There are a couple. I don't have one special moment, but I'll talk about it in generalities first, [Annalee 00:19:46], which is like when I feel like the other person is lowering their guard and letting me into their world, I think it's a very special thing when they open up and maybe that's not their normal way of communicating and moving through the world. I find that that's such a precious and rare thing that that this gift that they're giving to me and then our audience, it's so wonderful and I savor those moments, when Joey talked about his struggles, Joey Capone, and when Errol Gerson shared stories about how his student had a breakthrough moment, the bed story, when he asked him to be thankful for something in his life, and he finally thanked his bed and his girlfriend walks in. It's like, "I wish you talk to me the way you talk to that bed."

Annalee:
I remember that thing. I cried.

Chris:
Right?

Annalee:
That was beautiful.

Chris:
It was really beautiful and I get choked up just thinking about it. Those are really wonderful. Sometimes when you hear me emote like a 14-year-old child, it's coming from a real place. When I talked to Michael Bungay Stanier and he said he sold I think 800,000 copies and I said, "Please tell me you're self-published," and he did, I was just like, "You know what? That's one for the nerds. That's one for the creators." It really is because if you do the math on that, it's like he's a multimillionaire based on his idea. The best part of that story or one of the amazing parts of that story is that he was turned down by his publisher. I love that.
It's like, if you could be the publisher who turned down JK Rowling and then later on said, "You still work here?" you know what I mean? Sometimes it's that self-determination, that belief that you can do something and what you have to say is worthwhile and you get market validation and you get the financial reward from that, oh, and I'm just really happy because it's like I wish that for everybody.

Annalee:
Thank you for sharing good episodes. I remember them all.

Chris:
Thank you. I think we're going to then bring in order of hands being raised Alicia, Sabrina and then Rachel. You guys, this is a conversation. If you want to ping pong back and forth a little bit, I'm happy to do that, okay? We haven't done this before in this format. I'm interested to see how this turns out. Alicia, go ahead.

Alicia:
Hello. Can you hear me?

Chris:
Yes, loud and clear.

Alicia:
One of the things you mentioned was learning about yourself through sharing. If you're doing that in a public forum, something like a podcast or even on social media in general, there's often a fear that you'll learn something about yourself that you may not like, although there's value in learning and through sharing. How do you get over that nerve-wracking feeling of doing this publicly where not only could you be criticized, but also you could learn something that maybe you realize you have to work on for yourself?

Chris:
Right. That's an excellent question, Alicia. Thanks for asking that. First of all, I have to say your microphone, everybody on this call, your mics are really, really good, I have to say, compared to many of my guests who are professionals. Alicia, there's a couple things there. This idea of learning something about yourself, even if you don't like it, I think is a powerful idea. If it's true, if it's real, there are only two choices here. It's either you can live in denial and ignorance of this thing that is about you that you need to address, that you've buried away for so long and/or the other option is to actually bring it to surface, to recognize it and then to make a decision about what you want to do, to either wholeheartedly embrace that to say, "That is something I'm not very good at. I don't like that about me, but it is me," or to decide to change."
I don't think holding it in and keeping it buried is actually good or healthy. I wonder who told me this before, I think it was my business coach, Keir, who told me this. He said that when you don't listen to your body, because it knows what you need, it knows what you don't want, it knows what you don't like, it will tell you one way or the other. For example, if you have ulcers, there's something about your life that's not in balance. Most likely, it could be your diet or it could just be that you have toxic people in your life and the acids that build up inside your body are reacting to this.
His theory is that one way or the other, it's going to let you know. It's going to let you know in the form of a stroke or some other kind of health issues. When we keep bearing that voice and not listening to it, I actually think we do ourselves a lot of harm. If you have this conversation in public and you say to yourself, "Oh my gosh, I just don't like how I came across." It's your moment to recognize that and either accept it and love that part of you that you've never liked or to choose to change. Here's something else that you probably want to realize. If you record an episode, typically they're not live. You can edit those parts out if you're not comfortable sharing that with the world, but at least you have that for yourself.
The second part to your question is, "What if you get criticized for this?" I think that's the fear that most creative people live in which is even when you're doing something good, you're afraid that people will criticize you and it will have an emotional impact on you. They think that's a pretty natural reaction. We're vulnerable people. That's what makes us good artists, but at some point in our life, we'll have to develop this thick outer skin and let ourselves be governed by the things that we believe to be true versus what other people tell us to be true. I'll give you an example. I was meeting with my executive producer. His way of reacting to the work was really driven by what our clients said after we presented.
I had to challenge him on this because his opinion was so wildly influenced by what they had to say because here we are, and I'm talking about the team and this story could include Greg, where we're working on a pitch for new business, and we've worked really hard. We've used whatever resources we thought we needed to win this pitch and we felt good going in. It was demoralizing after the fact. If the clients didn't pick us for a thousand different reasons that we're not fully aware of, for then somebody on our own team to turn around and say to us, "That work was not very good. We did not try hard enough. We missed the ball." "What? What are you talking about? We are on the same team. There's not a you and us. It's just us because I don't know how you can win without us. I don't know how we can win without."
I said, "Here's what we want to do. I want you to weigh in at a point in time in which the team has enough time to react to your feedback and you need to commit, 'Is this work good? Is it lacking?' before you hear the external feedback." Of course, he said, "Okay." I had to test this theory. We put together a pitch because we pitched a lot in our company's history. He said, "This work is really good." We're one of five companies and we did not get the work because you have a 20% chance of getting work if you're one of five, less if there's a favorite that you don't know about.
At this point, I said, "Was the work good?" and he said, "The work was good." That's something we need to know like, is the work good? Are your ideas and your intention good? Is the part where in the story you revealed something about yourself, is that genuine? Is it real or is it manufactured to create or elicit a certain emotional response from the audience? If all those things are true, the best advice I can give you is not give a flying F what anybody thinks after that point. Just stop caring. I think then it's like you start to grow really strong. Alicia, do you have any thoughts or questions about that?

Alicia:
No, I think that that's a really inspiring story. I think that a lot of people resonate with that and I can 100% attest to the vulnerability that creatives feel especially when sharing and opening up and sharing our art with people and potentially being open to criticism of any kind. I think that pretty much sums it up.

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Chris:
Let's move on to Sabrina.

Sabrina:
Hi, Chris.

Chris:
Hi, Sabrina.

Sabrina:
I don't have a question. It's more addressing some fears. I just started a podcast or at least I announced it. I already recorded and now I'm in the middle of, let's say, cutting and getting everything ready, but there is not a real, let's say, strategy about that. I thought about just bringing value, making interviews, giving as lot of information as possible about design sprints, but listening to all that, I think it would be very valuable, also to have more let's say in deep thoughts about let's see what I think or maybe also letting a bit more topics to talk about, more topics because that's why I'm here as well. In my heart, I'm still a designer, but also design sprinter.
Let's say I'm half-half but I'm really leaning into design sprints, but I think these two worlds may be fit very good together. I'm not sure yet, but maybe that's also just the journey. It also it was I just did it as well because we have this 100-day challenge, so I thought, "Okay, what can I do now I had just started my podcast?" I just announced it and then I thought, "Okay, then I have to do it as well," because I was thinking about already one year ago, so I wasn't sure, "Should I do something with videos? Should I just start the podcast? What should I do?" but now I just took the decision and started.

Chris:
Well, congratulations.

Sabrina:
Maybe you can talk about your journey, if it was already clear, what you want to, let's say, bring, how you started and where you will end.

Chris:
Yeah. Happy to share a couple of things with you. First, I think this idea of publicly committing, it's called a social contract, right? It's when you admit or confess or pledge to all your friends and family, people you care about in your life, "I'm going to do this thing," because when it gets difficult, when you're feel tired, you're going to stop. It's really good to do this and also to cut yourself a little bit of slack in case you missed the deadline by a little bit, but not to let yourself entirely off the hook. I think creating a podcast is wonderful. One of the things about podcasts is it could be any length. It could be two hours long. It could be 10 minutes long.
I've enjoyed some that are super short and I also enjoy the ones where I was like, "Wow, this is 90 minutes and I could listen to this for another hour and a half." One of the great perks of creating content is it gives you a really good excuse to research and to learn more yourself. I'm about to record an episode about going past the sale. I wanted to know what that term really means because I've used it many times. I looked that up. Then I was like, "Well, what is sales anyways?" I started researching sales. As much as I talk about it and teach it, there's always an opportunity to learn more. I found an article called The Six Steps in Sales. It didn't exactly line up with what I was thinking, but I was able to scrape a lot from that and so that now I'm better for it.
For any of you, it's just a good reason to go and learn more. You get to share your findings, your learnings with other people, which is even better, so you're learning on behalf of everybody that shows up. Even if you have only 100 downloads, that's 100 people whose lives are better because they listen to this research that you did. I'm a fan of TED Talks and I watch a lot of TED Talks. Many of them are researchers. Brene Brown is a researcher. She's helped a lot of people, right? I think that's a great way to approach it to think about I'm learning for myself and I get to bring a few people who show up along the journey with me. I think that's really cool.
I'm going to encourage you to do this. In terms of my own personal journey, in terms of creating content, I want to draw an analogy for you or a metaphor. Imagine yourself at the top of a mountain range where it's like dipping into the clouds. Your visibility is very low and you know from basecamp where you need to be at the end of the day for the next milestone. You know the direction, you know what it says on the map, but you can't actually see it because your visibility is only six or eight feet. It's enough to keep moving forward and maybe I'm exaggerating here because it might be actually very dangerous, six to eight feet, but that's the general idea.
Most people won't move until it's totally clear, even though they have a map, even though they have a compass and they know what general direction they need to go in and there's no real threat to them. I think in reality, it's like this. There's a constant fog around you that's keeping you from your goals. My wife and I, we talk about this a lot. She goes, "Honey, everything that we want to do in life, that first step is murder." It is the hardest thing to do, that first step. She knows that she wants to create Carousells for Instagram. I'm still waiting. Because that first step is just crazy scary and hard.
Then she and I, we like to walk and to go on hikes, but it's been challenging during these times. We are now doing like urban hiking in our neighborhood, right? We both have a thousand reasons why we don't go hiking, "It's too hot. It's too dark. It's too bright. We have other things to do. I'm too tired." I have too much energy. There's a thousand reasons, "I don't have the right clothes," but we hold each other accountable and I just know that I don't want to let my partner down. Sometimes when I'm thinking, "I need to be working on this presentation deck," I think that can wait. We say to each other, "You want to go?" She looks at me like, "Okay."
I'm not sure she wants to go, I'm not sure I want to go, but I just don't want to let my partner down. We get in our outfits and we start walking. Then halfway up the hill, we're sweating like pigs at this point, we look at each other like, "Yeah,
that commitment, that first step to say, 'We're going to go,' is always the hardest." In your journey towards creating a hundred days' worth of content, whether it's on Instagram, LinkedIn, podcasting or YouTube, just go for it. It'll be okay. You'll get a little bit further in your goals. You're still as deep in the fog and to this day, 20+ years into running two seven-figure, one of them is eight-figure business, I still don't know what eight to 10 feet out look like, but that's never going to stop me. I hope it doesn't stop you either.

Sabrina:
No.

Chris:
Your lighting looks incredible by the way.

Sabrina:
Thank you.

Chris:
Podcast people can't see this, but, man, everybody's got their game on. Let's move on. Let's go to Rachel.

Rachel:
Now I have a microphone inferiority complex.

Chris:
It's okay. You sound good.

Rachel:
Great. I know that you have a hundred or now this is the hundredth episode and you've covered a huge range of topics from business to mindset, design, but if you had to share one key message that your listeners walk away with, what would that be? What would be the most important thing to you that your listeners would understand?

Chris:
I get that question a lot, Rachel, so I have an answer prepared thankfully because that one thing is always the hardest thing to answer, right? You guys know this. Like, "What's your biggest regret? What's your biggest love? What's your favorite color? Your favorite movie?" It's always very difficult to answer these kind of questions. The way that I interpret your question is, what would I tell my 19, 20-year-old self, given 30 years of knowledge or 30 years of experience, right? The thing that I would tell myself is, "Get on the content creation game ASAP. There's this thing, you don't know about it yet, it's going to be called YouTube, you need to get on it, you need to be one of the granddaddies on that thing and you're going to just kill.
Get over all your fears about your own looks and your voice, your crooked face and whatever else. Just go and do it. People are not going to show up right away, but if you keep at it, if you don't quit, if you keep learning and growing and adjusting as you go, they will eventually show up and it's going to open up all kinds of doors that you can't even imagine in your life." That's what I would try to tell everybody. You, as many of you are a part of the Pro Group, know how hard I push on this thing, about getting on the content game. I'm like a broken record when it comes to this, but I'm telling you right now, we started in 2014, that six years ago with Jose saying, "Let's get on the interwebs."
At that point, I had accounts on Instagram, on Twitter, on LinkedIn, but I didn't know what to do with them. I literally asked them like, "I don't understand Twitter. What do you do with Twitter? I don't understand what to post on Instagram. What do you do there?" At that point in time, Jose had a much, much bigger following than me. I was like, "God, I just don't get it, man," but once I begin that question of, "How does one create content on this platform?" the way my little brain works is like, "I'm going to figure it out. I'm going to try lots of things. I'm going to read some articles. I'm going to watch some videos. I'm going to keep working at this until I figure it out," because I'm just really possessed that way.
I know I have a problem. I have a problem. I'm addicted to learning. I don't play to come in second place. When I start to realize I want to get good at something, it is all consuming. When I was much younger in my teenage years, I used to love fishing. I would subscribe to every fishing magazine, or if I couldn't afford it, I would go to the library and check them all out. Every single one. Every time we drove by a body of water, I'd be like, "I bet there's fish in there." I would order catalogs. I would dream about tying my own flies. I told my mom, "Mom," and she hates worms," is it okay if I grow a worm farm on the side of the house?" and she's like, "No way," because I was ready. I was ready to order my starter kit and start a worm farm and just sell worms to people that love fishing as much as I did.
That's how crazy obsessed I am and typically that's how I do. I go all in to a point in which it drives everybody crazy and then I feel like I hit a saturation point and then I'm done and then switch gears. I'm on to the next thing. If you look throughout my garage, in my house, in my room, in this room, you see artifacts of all these different hobbies and pursuits. Of course, my wife wants to throw everything out. It's like, "No, you don't understand. That's really important to me." When I was into mixed martial arts, I probably bought over 100 pay per views from the UFC consecutively every single one without fail. I'm probably one of the most loyal customers.
I was so insane in fact that I went on eBay to track down the original VHS tapes of UFC 1 through 20. I would watch them, rewind and watch them and rewind and just that was it. I probably still have that boxset around here somewhere. That's how crazy it is. That's what I would do. I would go in and start making content around the things that I'm most passionate about and share that with the world. I almost forgot to the part of the story here is that, what if we had started in 1995 instead of 2014? Could you just imagine? Almost everybody that dominates in our platform, from podcasting to YouTube, to Instagram, was in early and Twitter too.
One of the reasons why Gary Vaynerchuk has such a big following is because he was in there very early. He's an investor, but they just recommended his account as one to follow. Millions of followers later, it's like, "That must have been nice." That's what I would want to do.

Rachel:
Thank you.

Chris:
You're welcome. [Moosey 00:43:49], what's up?

Moosey:
Hey, guys. My camera is messed up, so it looks like I have a permanent filter on, but I don't know what's happening there.

Chris:
It's a pretty awesome filter, man.

Moosey:
Thanks. I have a question for you. I started with the hundred-day challenge and I've been trying to create content, I would say, since 2018 to mid-2017. That's when I was in the group and that's when I actually made my first video. You were the reason that I made it and I published it. That was that. Ever since then, it's been a struggle because there's the discipline side of things and there's the learning side of things. I feel like I need to learn how to be a better content creator to just be able to ... By be better, I mean to create on a daily like the hundred-day Challenge, even if it's not perfect, just put it out.
I find that wasn't happening with my chosen platform which was YouTube because it's too hard to be consistent. When you're running a startup business and you have to really put all the hours that you have in, that was like a big struggle. I find that with Instagram, it's a lot easier because you can do it within an hour to two hours per post. Do you think it's better to go through that for a good year before going on YouTube and to actually just get better at the process of videomaking and storytelling and actually make valuable videos, not just videos about, "Hey, this is my day and it's boring"?

Chris:
Great question. Somebody told me before, not somebody tell me this, I think I watched watch the video on this. Maybe with Seth Godin and he said that, "You can't learn to play baseball by reading a book on how to play baseball. You just play baseball and you get feedback." Now, when it comes to you creating content, there's this thing that a lot of us fall into which is you want to research the heck out of it and you want to watch a ton of videos but it's all getting in the way if you're making content. We can become addicted to learning and it becomes part of our illusion of mastery. We've learned a lot, we feel like it, but we haven't ever applied it. It's really important to apply it.
Now there are very realistic constraints on your time and resources and barriers to you creating video content, right? Mostly you have to shoot, you have to write, you have to produce and edit. There's a lot of stuff you need to do to get a video out. Your learning cycle is actually going to be very long. What we want to do is to shorten it because the more iterations you can get in, the faster you can learn. The more doing, the more at bats, right? The reason why I got really good at fishing was because I spent days on the water, not just an hour here, an hour there, and I got good at it.
For you, creating Instagram content is a perfect way of doing this where you're learning really fast and the constraints of time and what you can actually do on the platform itself. Those are good constraints. What's really cool is you'll get validation from people who engage with their content as this being worthwhile to share. I'll give you an example there. Matthew was looking at my Carousell content. He said, "Chris, you should immediately make a video on this one and this one and this one." He pointed a few out. The first one he pointed out was the one on costs, price and value and I turned that into a whiteboard session.
After having already done the work for the Instagram Carousell, I videotaped that and that episode has done really well for us. It's got over 100,000 views. Human beings, we don't want to put in a lot of effort and energy, only to get no result. That's heartbreaking. It's just like the early days of pitching, pitching and getting no clients. That's really, really tough, right? I think it's a great way for you to try ideas, and hey, if it doesn't work, if it's a total dud, at least you only spend an hour on it versus two weeks on it and I'm all for that. To speed up your process, to speed up your workflow and to get many iterations out there before you can feel like liked what's going to work for the audience, I think that's an excellent strategy. I encourage you to keep doing it.

Moosey:
Perfect. Thank you.

Chris:
Now, before we take the next question here, I remember the story I wanted to tell Alicia. Sorry, guys, my brain is weird. The story I wanted to say is connected to this idea that if you reveal something about yourself that you're like, "Oh my gosh, I don't like that about myself. That's ugly," I'm going to share a story with you when that actually did happen. Many of you have seen these videos. We still try to find them and remove them, I think, when we spot them, but there are videos when I'm on camera, live stream and I'm not being a good person. I just say it like that where for a number of different reasons I'm very short with my team.
In that moment, it was just like, because I was angry. I was angry and I don't like that about me. I was angry because if some of you have visited the studio before and you see our live stream setup, there's a lot of things that I'm doing. I'm talking to guests. I'm running the keynote. I'm writing notes. I'm reading the comments. I'm hosting the show. I'm running the soundboard. There's a lot of stuff I'm doing. That's a lot of in my shoulders and that's totally okay because I'm used to that. When I have my team, especially when they're younger or less experienced, I'd ask them, "Can you just read the comments? Can you just handle this one part?" and they don't do their job, I just lose it.
I know this is not the kind of person I aspire to be. This is not how a leader leads and I give them a really hard time on camera live because I'm frustrated and I'm angry. When those things happen, I have to have a hard conversation with myself and I know this is in there. It's in me. It's not like some somebody possessed my spirit and my mind and just I became something else. I have very high expectations. I run at a very high level, so I expect everybody to be at that level. Maybe that's just not fair. I made some changes. I made some changes. I moved people to roles and positions that were better suited for them. Them not doing what I wanted was reflection on me not being a good leader and saying, "I put a square peg in a round hole."
I move people around and I also just wanted to share with the team, "This is live. Let's have fun. Mistakes are going to be a part of it and it's totally okay." Those are the moments when I think it's an opportunity to change, to realize what you're doing and to try to just be a better human each and every single day. Let's move on. Let's move on to, [Yuwana 00:51:12], I think Yuwana.

Yuwana:
Hi, Chris and Greg. I hope my audio is okay. I find it befitting that this podcast is about finding, using and owning your voice. You talk about naysayers and then you ask, "Did you actually do what I told you to do?" and I'm a bit of skeptic and also there is a lot of fear involved and I go, "Baa, who's going to see my content? Who's going to look and care?" and I start jumping on the content challenge. I'm in day three and I just drew person, I made a tiny illustration and it was good. My only fault was I'm going to do this because I admire this person. In day three, that person replied to my illustration and I couldn't believe it. At the same time, I'm getting a lot of nice comments and I don't react on the moment or very emotionally and it feels like I can't repay their kindness as much as I would like to. How do you repay kindness, Chris?

Chris:
Well, first, I have to say, Yuwana, I'm glad that you're actually doing content and saying, "Screw it. Who cares? I'm just going to go for it, right?" You're just telling the imposter syndrome monster, "You know what? You sit down for a little bit because I'm going to play for a while. You just chill. I know you're there. I know you want to say something, but I need you just relax for a little bit. Mama is going to go get something done." You just put that little one there and say, "Okay, cool." Then you go make some stuff. I know exactly what you're talking about because I saw it. I'm just going to say it. I'm going to say. I think it was with Emily Cohen, right? She shared that and she's like, "How wonderful," because it's extremely flattering for a content creator to have an artist reflect back as fan art.
Designers and people like us don't have a whole lot of fans. It's not a natural part of our way of being. It's quite remarkable when somebody actually does something good or bad, it doesn't really matter, because I've had my share of really bad fan art, but I'm still happy. I'm still like a proud parent like, "Gosh, I'm going to put Johnny's drawing on the fridge." It's just like, "I know it sucks. I know the proportions. I look like an idiot with like weird lopsided eyes, but I'm just going to put it up because I'm just happy." I thank the person and the debt is paid, "We're done." You don't owe any more after that, you understand? Because you know what you did, you gave as an expression of joy through the lens of generosity, nothing else needs to be done.
If you walked down the street and there was a pothole and you put a sign up, you went back in the house, you made a sign like, "Avoid this pothole. Please be careful. It will ruin your suspension. It might get you into an accident," that was it. You weren't expecting a medal or to be written up in the papers, but when it does, you just have to thank the universe and say, "Awesome," and you just move on. That's it. No more debt. The balance sheet is even. We're done. If people say, "Thank you. I love it. It was inspirational and I'm so glad you did it," all you do is just keep saying thank you.

Yuwana:
Thank you.

Chris:
You're welcome. Let's move on. Let's go on to our-

Speaker 10:
Hey, hey, what's going on, Chris?

Chris:
Hey, buddy.

Speaker 10:
First of all guys, congrats, Greg and Chris, for 100 episodes. That's a lot of work. I know that is, so thank you for that. Congratulations to you guys. Quick question. Ever since I joined The Futur, I've been putting out a lot of content, man like on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, right? I made a commitment to myself, especially on YouTube because I'm particularly enjoying that. I made a commitment that I'm going to put out at least 100 videos. Now I don't have a timeframe or whatever, but I'll at least put out 100 videos and then see what happens from there, right?
When do you suspect like, "You know what? I'm really working hard at this, but I think I just naturally suck," right? For example, I love basketball, right? I played basketball growing up, but I know for a fact I'm never going to get to the NBA, right? When do you kind of realize that, "You know what? I should probably use my time somewhere else"?

Chris:
This is an awesome thing, an awesome thing to make that kind of commitment, "I'm going to do something for a hundred times and then I'm going to evaluate later." By the time you do your 50th video and it's not getting traction, you don't give up. There's one critical part to this, when you just talk about it, is I don't want you to make content and just put it out there and totally ignore the feedback that you're getting. Look at it through the lens of, "How can I improve based on the feedback that I'm getting?" and only that. How might I do this better? What else can I try? Because I wouldn't want you to make a hundred episodes in a vacuum and drop them because the amount of what you've learned by doing 100 will be almost the same as when you started.
See, for us, we make content all the time and we're having these conversations. Now I know we've done over 800 episodes on YouTube. We've deleted removed a bunch, so I have lost count, but it's at least over 800 and soon will be a thousand videos. A thousand videos in, I'm still asking my staff, my team, "Why do you think this one connected?" Almost always, their answer will surprise me. They'll say something, "It was the title," or, "It was the thumbnail," and of course, these are our educated guesses. We don't really know, but then we say, "Okay, if that's true, I'll try it again. If you think that thumbnail is the thing that's doing it, I'll make another thumbnail that's almost like it. If you think that title is working, I will switch around a few words and make another video."
We keep testing and we learned so much by doing that. Part of you’re a hundred-day or a hundred-video experience should be, "After release one, I'm going to ask myself, 'What did I do well? What could I do better?'" By the time you hit them, 100 episode, you will not naturally suck anymore. I don't know how you could do something a hundred times like that and not be exponentially better if you approach it that way. I see you posting, man. I just want to cheer from you from the sidelines, "Keep going. Don't stop." Then maybe Episode 20, you'll join a group on Facebook where they talk about how to grow on YouTube.
You might also join a different group where it's a bunch of videographers trying to up their cinema game. To me, I look at this as all an excuse to go and learn more. Some people who are friends or even my parents who are here right now, they walk into the studio and there's like lights everywhere. There's negative field cards and there's microphones. They asked me, "Who set this up? Who did this for you?" "Well, I did." At the beginning of this journey, I didn't know any of this stuff. I just start plugging stuff in, reading, watching videos on YouTube, calling some of my team members who know a lot and they're literally walking me through the process over the phone because I'm pushing buttons, like, "No, not that button. The other button." I'm like, "This one?" and they came and see what I'm doing.
This is what we do. It's an opportunity to learn. I taught myself photography, editing, color correction and motion design. It's an excuse to learn. Luckily, you're with friends, so there are a lot of people here who know how to create videos, who know how to post things on YouTube, who can help you, so stick with it. You'll figure it out. I'm very confident you will. Let's move on to Matthew.

Matthew:
Hey, Chris. I just wanted to say thanks so much for all that you guys do on the podcast. I really enjoy listening to them on my mindfulness walks in my neighborhood, like you're talking to us about your family. They really mean a lot, so thank you.

Chris:
Thank you.

Matthew:
My questions is this, for myself and the other extreme overthinkers in general, how do we go from not caring or over-caring to finding that sweet spot, caring just enough because I have the caring too much problem constantly and it's crippling?

Chris:
Tell me more about this caring too much. How does it manifest itself?

Matthew:
Well, I know you've talked to us about mind maps and how we map out data in our thoughts. That's how my brain just goes on a tangent. It's like flicking the first domino and then seeing a million start to go after. I'm just trying to figure out how I can pull out one of those dominoes to keep the chain from continuing, so I can just focus them and not overcomplicate every step of every process.

Chris:
Is it one of these things that you look at the action that you would like to take or that's posting or calling a client or doing whatever it is that you need to do and the action is surrounded by this moat of diagramming and figuring things out so that you never get to take the action? Is that what it looks like in your mind?

Matthew:
I think it's that, but I think it's also wanting to, I guess, be there for my community. I care so much that I'll get to that 90% mark and then I won't hit the go button because I want it to be a certain standard for that community because I respect my community and I have a deep connection to them. I think-

Chris:
I hear you. Let me ask you something. Oftentimes, when we have to make a choice of doing something or not doing something, we're almost always focused on one option, which is, if I do this thing and it's 90%, "Oh, what a disappointment to that community that shows up for me. What's the alternative?" The alternative is not to post that thing. It's either to do it and to be 10% shy or not to do it and be 100% shy.

Matthew:
When Alicia talked with you earlier, this is what I was directly relating it to. She's actually been working with me a lot this year, but her push for me today was, "Matt, just get in front of the camera and start doing it. Quit worrying about the how and just get out there." That's easier said than done for a lot of overthinkers, hence how do we pull out that domino to keep the chain reaction from occurring.

Chris:
I think you to live with your lizard brain a little bit more. You know what I mean? The lizard just does, he's like, "Whatever, I don't really care."

Matthew:
Hearing just enough. I don't want to be someone who's just like, "Oh, screw it. I'm not going to care about anything," but-

Chris:
There's a couple things here-

Matthew:
I think-

Chris:
Go ahead.

Matthew:
I was just going to say I've been burned so many times too and I know a lot creatives, that happens. It puts a guard in front of that shell that we need to make or it makes it more confusing, I guess.

Chris:
Do you care? Are you comfortable enough to share how you've been burned before?

Matthew:
Sure. I'll keep it anonymous if that's all right.

Chris:
Yeah.

Matthew:
Long story short, I've come from a different background within my work bubble of storytelling, photography, etcetera, just different branches of that industry. I wanted to branch my business and wanted to build out some sample work for other industries and in the process of doing that, you have to create spec work at all before it exists to get the new work. There's finding this balance of having conversation with different potential clients who are maybe just case study  interactions at the time. It's really interesting to see the difference because last year, I tried to ... I met a new friend this year. Last year, I had three groups that burned me essentially, but this year, I met a new friend.
He and I got to know each other. Annalee was talking about this in her call earlier today in the brand and workshopping strategy. It's just getting to know people for themselves, getting to know human to human who that person is before they're even a client. That way you can relate to them on just personal levels, not to the point that it's nonprofessional, but just generally speaking, it doesn't feel so formal. It's not so pitchy or a call isn't a meeting. You're just catching up and getting to know each other.

Chris:
Hey, Matthew. One second. I'm not hearing that clear example of how you've been burned before.

Matthew:
That's the overthinking.

Chris:
Just the lizard brain to me is like I'm still listening for the burn, so I just want to know what the burn is, so that I can help.

Matthew:
Sure, a surprising burn. I was accepted into a stock agency years ago, major one and went through all the hoops to get in was really excited, uploaded all my best work from seven years. And it ended up on the royalty free market for $30 and I would get 30% of each sale. Essentially, pennies. It was really strange for me to have that happen because there was no conversation on their end, on the client's end as an agency. They just did it and said, "This is how we do things." As the little guy out here in the ether, like many of us, I actually took a stand and this is something an organization that is really cool, but at the same time, I was like, "Hey, this doesn't fit my business model, much less my mission as a human being."
Right now the work behind me, you see, was one of the images that was in that royalty-free market. This is one of my favorite works. It was a piece of my soul. I think a lot of us creatives, when we create things, we have such a deep attachment to them that it prevents us from like you say, seeing outside the bubbles, so to speak. Can't read the label from inside the bottle, I guess.

Chris:
Right. This seems like a contractual issue where you agree to something that may or may not have been spelled out the way that you thought, right?

Matthew:
Correct and the fish was too big for me to strike out legal to say, "Hey, well, this needs to be like this." I actually severed the relationship and said, "This isn't working. This doesn't fit," and it felt really crappy at first. It felt like the wrong move, but the longer time went on, I gave myself the space to just reflect on that decision and it was one of the best decisions I've ever made.

Chris:
All right. Let me try to address this a couple different ways. The first thing is there's such thing as just rushing in to do things blindly without any kind of plan and I would consider that kind of foolhardy. Then there's the thing where you stare at a contract for like four years and never move beyond that. That's the overthinking part, right? One is foolish and this one is just never taking action. I think there is a middle ground where you do due diligence and we can talk about in legal ways because I've foolishly have committed the same sin.
I've signed contracts without thoroughly reading them, good faith and all, excitement and all and it's come back to bite me in the butt to the tune of $30,000. Literally like $30,000 which is not a check I wanted a sign for somebody being unethical in my opinion, but it is the contract. This is where they say like an ounce of prevention. This is where you really need to read your contracts. With contract, it's very black and white, "What do we agree to? How do we get out of this if we want to sever our relationship and then we move forward?"

Matthew:
How do we approach it if we've read the whole contract, but the fish is too big and we're just the little guy? You know what I mean? That was the sticking point, was I read the thing and [crosstalk 01:08:43]-

Chris:
Right, I'm about to get to that part, that the contracts are only as good as the people behind them and there's a lot of people that you don't know when we listen with happy ears, that we assume they're going to do right by us, but even though the contract says no. This is where you have to act with your conviction to say, "You know what? As much as I want to work with you, if I can't redline these things, I'm out," and you're going to walk away. Ultimately the same outcome happen which is you walked away. Better to preserve your sanity and your emotional health by walking away at the beginning.
I can tell you, on many occasions, where the really large companies, like multibillion dollar entertainment companies have sent over contracts that are basically screw-you contracts. We say, "We're not going to participate," or, "We redline every single thing." Greg knows because we look at these all the time. They're boilerplate templates that come over, that take over all of your rights and give you very little in exchange and give you no transparency or control. You just have to say no. This is not a situation overthinking. This is just doing right by Matthew and you need to do that every single time.

Matthew:
To come full circle, if I can walk away from big clients like that, I'm confused to myself as to why I'm having such a hard time just opening up and being myself to my audience. If they're not that big fish, they're here to help me. They like my work. They want to see more. It's myself that stopped myself.

Chris:
I'm not clear about the connection between a contract with a client and putting out content for your community. That's the part that I'm missing. Can you explain that quickly?

Matthew:
I'm not sure. I'd rather be concise. Thank you so much for your thoughts, Chris.

Chris:
Let's just sum that up really quick here. It's like anything, man. If you and I go into something and you want to sell me an image or a logo or something and I make some kinds of promises with my mouth that I can't back up in writing, I think you just got to walk away. We've walked away from and I'm going to say we've walked away from Disney, from major cable networks, from all kinds of entertainment companies who have who've asked us for too much in the contract that is just, "This doesn't make sense," and that's how corporations work sometimes. They have an army of lawyers and a corporate interest and they just don't care about the little guy. As much as that might be a cliche to say, there's some truth in there.
This is, I'm painting with a very broad brushstroke here, companies, corporations tend to care about bottom line and investor reports than they do about human beings. That's like why in some industries where it's very dangerous and volatile, they just send human after human to stop whatever hazard. They don't care if 30 people die because the cash must flow. I think then when we're dealing with humans, not corporations, I don't think we want to apply the same set of rules, although we want to be just as disciplined. I think it's a much deeper issue, Matthew. I'm going to hit pause on this. I could feel it, right? I could feel your energy right now.

Matthew:
I think it ultimately relates to pricing, but that's something I'm reflecting on long term, but thank you.

Chris:
One of these things is I just don't want you guys to sell yourself short. That's it, bottom line, because you got to be able to do and feel good about yourself that you don't go to bed thinking, "Why? Why did I do that? I hate that person. I hate myself." That's not the outcome that you want. Marshall Rosenberg talks about this and he's like, "If there's request that's being made of you and you can't do it because in a way that gives you joy, just don't do it. Everybody pays." All right. Kenny, you get the last question and then I'm going to bounce because I need to catch my breath before my next thing.

Greg:
Chris, sorry to cut you out, really quick. We had a question from a while ago. I was just trying to jump in ...

Chris:
I see.

Greg:
... but if you can quickly address it because I know we're short on time. I'm going to butcher their name and I apologize for that, but the question is from [Levon 01:13:01]. Essentially, they have been an accountant for the last 10 years and they're going through a career change or maybe even a pivot, which I imagine a lot of people might be doing right now, given our circumstances. They want career change from accounting to UX/UI and they're a follower. Their question is, "What is the importance of content creation?" Also, is that even helpful right now for them to achieve their goal of making this career switch? How might that play a role in what they're trying to do?

Chris:
All right. I think you have a very interesting story that there aren't many accountants who are going to become a creative person and that your story isn't interesting to you, but it's interesting to a lot of other people, for people who are considering doing the same thing or people who carelessly want to live through you. I think when you tell that story like, "Okay, so here goes. I've been working as an accountant for 16 years and I decided this wasn't my purpose in life. For the next X number of months, days, years, whatever, I'm going to dedicate myself to becoming a creative person, specifically to become a UX/UI designer. If you're interested in following my story, I'm going to post something once every two weeks. I'm going to update you on my progress. I'll let you know what I learned. Let me know what you guys think."
Then you enroll your audience into this journey with you. Now you can get people who are just at the beginning of their UI/UX journey themselves or former "creatives." That's a much more compelling story in my opinion. "Well, I went to private school. Then I went to an amazing design school and graduated the top of my class and got hired by Google when I was 21. I'm going to teach you how I became a UX designer." It's almost like there's no struggle there. There are no mountains for you to climb and digging into your soul and figure out who you are.
Yes, they have the credentials of going to X School and working at X Company, but I'm much more interested in your story. Stories need conflict and your story is full of conflict, the obstacles that get in your way. All stories follow basic formula, character, want and obstacle. Character, the accountant. Wants, to become a creative. The obstacle is you're not trained to be like that. None of your life experiences line up with that. You're a little older. You have a lot of obstacles in front of you. Talk about them. Embrace them. Embrace your story and the parts that you might not even like about yourself and tell it in a transparent, honest and genuine, authentic way. I think you got something.
I remember a while back, there was a viral video that went off and I can't remember, but I think it was the person who's working at Microsoft who decided to make a video to quit. That video went bananas. Now, there's a bunch of people that work at Microsoft, they're not quitting, but they're secretly cheering her on and it was awesome to see. Now she's a video content creator and I love her content, by the way. All right, Kenny, you get to have the last comment or question.

Kenny:
Thank you for giving me an opportunity. I'm a little bit addicted to books and the reason why I'm in The Futur Pro Group is your book and I'm pretty honored that I got one and I would like to ask you, what book are you reading right now and what learning did you get from it?

Chris:
You and I have a similar addiction. Somebody needs to take my Amazon account away from me. Here's the problem. Every time I interview somebody on my show and they're like, "Oh, yeah, this person is really important. Did you know this person?" I'm like, "Shoot." I'll write their name down, and boom, it's in my Amazon cart. Two days later, it's in the front step. I'm like, "Dang." You guys can't see this, but there's a massive bookshelf here of books I've not read. I take pictures of this. People think, "Oh, you're so amazing." I'm like, "No, I just bought them. I literally just bought them. I have even read them. I love the title. I love the cover. That's as far as I've gotten."
The books that I'm reading right now, they happen to be right next to me. The one I'm reading right now is the New Rules for the New Economy by Kevin Kelly, who wrote a very influential piece called 1000 True Fans. You may have heard of this. He was the founding executive director or editorial director for Wired Magazine. I want to hear what he has to say because as somebody who's in that position that see a lot of technologies or ideas changed the world, I want to read this book. It's an older book.
The other book that I'm reading right now, it's actually quite fascinating. It's called StoryBranding 2.0. Very interesting. It's written by Jim Signorelli and he's going to be on the show at some point, but he's got a rich history in advertising and he's studied storytelling like you can't believe. The parallels that he's pulling are just really amazing. I'm fascinated by stories and branding and I think this is a really interesting counterpoint, potentially to Donald Miller's book, StoryBrand. This is what I'm reading right now, but I'm reading stuff all the time. I was listening to The Two Bobs Podcast yesterday because I was talking to Brett Brown who's also in the group.
I was listening to it and Blair and David C. Baker were talking about how to read books and Blair had a wonderful tip. I'm going to do it this way. He said, "Read the introduction. Then read the final chapter. If you're interested in it, read the rest of it, but oftentimes, the most meaningful insights happen at the end where the rest of it is just story and evidence. If you don't need that, don't read it." I think of myself as a topline reader which is I get the big concept right away. The stories are nice to have, but after a while reading story after story after story, I get really bored and it makes it hard to get to the end. From here on out, I'm reading the introduction which generally I skip because I'm like, "I already bought the book. I don't need the introduction."
This may change the way I read and the way I'm able to get through books. When I talked to Seth Godin, he said he reads like a thousand books a year or something like that. I'm like, "How is that possible?" I know I have the numbers wrong, but he says, "Once I read a book far enough, I get the idea and I'm done." These are expert readers. It's a fascinating way. I'm still trying to become a better teacher and a learner. I think those two ideas are interconnected, so I'm going to keep working on my game.
Kenny, thanks for being part of the group. Thanks for your comment and your question and I hope we could be reading together and we'll be sharing our learnings, right? Thank you.

Kenny:
I'd love to.

Chris:
Kenny, where are you based out of?

Kenny:
I'm from Germany, a little bit close to Berlin.

Chris:
Great because I see it's very dark there, whereas it's bright here. I get a sense it's different time zone. It's super dark outside. Greg, I think that that's 100 for us, isn't it?

Greg:
It sure is. I think that's a great place to end like what are you currently learning and what we can hope to hear about.

Chris:
What else? How do we end this show? Is there a way that you rid us off?

Greg:
We could try to sync up our, "You are listening to The Futur." It's always great. It's cool if we can nail it, but it's even better the worst we mess it up. I think it's funny.

Chris:
I think I understand what you're saying. I'm going to do it and tell me if I do this wrong. Everybody unmute yourself. I don't care how loud it is for you right now, okay? We're going to try to do this in synchronicity. It's going to be a disaster. I already know it. I'm going to do this one, two and on three, everybody say, "You are listening to The Futur," just like that, okay? "You are listening to The Futur." Everybody that's brave enough to do this, go ahead and unmute yourself.

Greg:
Hold on. Are we doing on three or one, two, three, go?

Chris:
It'd be like it's, one, two, go.

Greg:
One, two, go.

Chris:
Then when you see, it's three, you're supposed to start with, "You are listening to The Futur." Okay, well try this, boy. I know this is going to be total disaster, cluster F, but here we go. Everybody who wants to say something, go ahead and unmute yourself. This is it. Is everybody ready?

Greg:
Let's do it.

Chris:
You ready? Here we go. I'll count us off. Here, we go, ready, one two.

All:
You are listening to The Futur.

Greg:
Thanks so much for joining us in this episode. If you're new to The Futur and want to know more about our educational mission, visit thefutur.com. You'll find more podcasts episodes, hundreds of YouTube videos and a growing collection of online courses and products covering design and business. Oh, and spell The Futur with no e. The Futur podcast is hosted by Chris Do and produced by me, Greg Gunn. This episode was mixed and edited by Anthony Barro with intro music by Adam Sanborne. If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor and rate and review us on iTunes. It's a tremendous help in getting our message out there and let us know what you like. Thanks again for listening and we will see you next time.

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