Is Value Based Pricing Dishonest?

My question of theweek, Chris, youmentioned thattransparency builds trust,but how could I havetransparency and a value basedproposal like thisone and not hidethe fact that a price beyondhours spent on the work?I love this question because thequestion almost answers itself.I see.OK, Yes.OK, now your questionabout transparency.And you think that Ithink in your heart,you just believe that valuebased pricing is not honest.Well, so this comes at areally good time I should haverecorded yesterday I just hada for the second time in 2and 1/2 hour meeting witha potential client whois a friend, but he's, youknow, wants to hire me.But he is just squeezing me tothe point and I try to have.I try to remember all the thingsI'm learning in this group,and I said, well,what's your budget?I don't work with budget.That's not how I work.OK, so then I tried anotherapproach and he's like,I'm not talking money.No so he was just me.And basically myfirst proposal to himwas value-based, myfirst value-based.But it was a number that like4,200 and forty, for example.And he's like, I wantto see everythingthat goes into that numberand I'm thinking, why?Why do you want to see that?So I was, and he's takingme through the wringer, but.In three degrees agree my him.You know, there's alot of problems with.This is fantastic.So I think you're lookingat this as an opportunityto test ideas in apretty safe environment.But you've brokenmany rules already.Many, many rules.Let's get into it.Ok?number one, don't workwith your friends.Well, OK, but hecalled me I can'tsay I don't work withmy friends, right?What's the point ofyour ability to sayno if you never exercise it?OK, well, he haswhat you said, that'sexactly what yousaid for one second.Right?OK, I understand the role.Chris never worked forfriends, but if a friend calls,then I have to say Yes.No, that's not how that works.That's not howthat works at all.You understand that.But we're not close friends.Yeah well, no, no.You're right.Like, well, we didn't date.So it was OK.No, you can't.No, don't work with friends.It's the number one rule.Do not work with friends.Friends use you in ways thatnormal strangers do not tell.Your family will abuse you theway that strangers will not.OK they take things forgranted like you'll secondrule you broke is 2 and1/2 hours for a meetingthat it's not paid for.Holy cow, I brought it up.I told him, I have givenyou way beyond, you know?No, no, no, it isn't.This is not aboutyou bringing it up.You know, it's like you punchedme in the face four times.No, you're not therefor the first punch.You just can't do this, so yousay and everything, I thinkyou need a tiny box this ok?Yeah all right.The first thing that you do inone of these kinds of meetingsis to say, look, howmuch time do you have?Like, I'll have all the time inthe world like, that's scary.Already successful people don'thave all the time in the world.They have finite amount of timeand you send that same messageto them if you alsohave infinite time.it's not worth anything.She's got all thetime to talk to me.This cannot be valuable becauseI'm not being charged for it,right?OK, so you then say if theyhave all the time in the world,it's like, well, that's great.What I can do is to spendthe next 40 minutes with youtalking about your problem.I have to run.So you just createa false timeline.It doesn't really matter.I got a call at got a meeting.So what happens isif you are so engage,engrossed in the conversation,you think it's going greatand you want to spend more time.You can then say, holdon, let me just doublecheck to make sure I can stayin this meeting with you.Mm-hmm Now you're saying tothem, I'm really important.I'll cancel my other things.So you still have torespect your own time,even when you'regiven away for free.Right, OK.Right now, when yousay there's 40 minutes,there's a goodreason why you saythis is about timemanagement, because whenthe conversation goessideways and it always does.And they ramble on and on,you're like, all you know,can we just save that for later?Can we put a pin on thatbecause I want to make surewe're going to coverthe important partswith an open agenda?It's hard to say that, right?You feel uncomfortable to say,I think he's rambling, right?I think she's going crazy hereand I can't stop them, right?OK, so those are thethings that you need to do.All right, now thatyou're getting into thisand they're like, well,I don't work like that.When you get to say, I'm sorry,I don't work like that either.I mean, and you can usethe whole, it's our policy.Yeah, Yeah.All right.So this person soundssomewhat abusivealready from theget go, and theymight be your like mostlovely friend from collegeand everything's great.So the way it'sbeing communicatedto us is differentbecause there's nuance,there's body languageand there's tonethat we're not getting.So let's get into this part.OK, so you get to the pointin which you give thema value based price, right?Mm-hmm You talked about whatthe desired future state is.Yeah, you did.You mean, well, theyjust have they justhave an immediateneed for something.They don't wantto know anything.I mean, I did a greatpresentation about strategy.And let's defineyour goals things.No, we need a brochure.We need trade show booth.And this rendering, that's it.Like they were just.We don't want anythingelse right now.This sounds like ahorrible relationship.I know, I mean, to behonest, I came home yesterdaylike I went through thewasher and I thought,I don't know that Iwant to work with this,but at the same time, I'm takingthis as a learning opportunity.OK, you're in for thelearning lesson of your life.Well, yeah, but that'show we learn, right?I mean, if I don't putmyself in a situation,then how am I going to learn?Yeah, but thereare good situationsand there's terrible situationsand ones that are terrible.They tell you up front, thisis going to be terrible.Oh, well, I mean,I don't I don'tsee this as aterrible situation,but I've already had anopportunity of applyingwhat I'm learning here.This is what I'mtrying to do with him.I'm applying what I'm learning.OK, I get it right.Can I ask you a question?Well, yeah, you always giveyour kids what they want.No so you have noproblem saying no.Well, but then they turnaround and do it anyway.OK because they'rechildren, that's fine.That's but I'm justsaying in the real world,do you have a problem saying no?Yes, and that's somethingI need to learn.Yeah, I'm picking upon that right now.That's somethingmy mom has told meis she apologized fornot having taught,taught me to respectmyself because I alwayshave to please people.So, yeah, I mean,that comes into.Yeah, shrink thing, but.Well, no, I mean, that'sa hard time saying no toor I used to write, but I'mtrying to take this opportunityto apply.Apply to really applywhat I'm learning here.OK, that's fantastic.You're going to apply a lotand this is not the best dancepartner for you to learn todance with, and that's fine.And I just want tomake sure that you'rebeing honest withyourself, that youdon't make this sound likesomething better than it is.No, I mean, as I told youwhat I'm saying, yeah,but I also toldhim yesterday, I'mnot going to be yourcheapest option.He's like, I wantto work with you.I'm like, that'sfine, but I'm notgoing to be yourcheapest option.You can't squeeze me.I'm not going to match thefibers in the 99 design.Go to the Russell.Oh my god, you may be hearingthe things that I'm saying yes,but you may not beexecuting it the wayI want you to execute it.OK, OK.So this is great learningbecause, yeah, itis, but OK, becauseI'm bringing valueto him, that's what I'm doing.Well, so here'sthe thing, right?Shoot let me figure out how tosay this so I don't get myselfinto trouble.OK, let me just say this.Why would you want to hire me?I'm going to be the mostexpensive option you have.Is a lot different than.I'm not the cheapestoption you have.You're anchoring yourselflow when you shouldbe anchoring yourself high.And they sound very similar,but they're not the same.OK, so when you enter theword fiver and 99 designs,he's thinking $100.I said to him, I will notbe these people, right,but the fact is youeven brought them up.Now we've now have a rangeof money, OK, but you OK,well, hold on now I'mconfused because you mentionthat when you see that the wrongthere is a wrong line in frontof you, you say, go to thesepeople, go to this website.I'm leaving now, right?This is not anegotiation, right?I'm at the point in whichI'm saying that I'm leaving.That conversationis about to end,and that's the most politeway for me to say no.It's not a negotiationtactic at this point.What I'm trying to do is.And that's why we regret assoon as I got home, I was like,I should have recorded thisbecause I didn't say it exactlylike this, but whatI was trying to sayis position the fact thatI am not this cheap sites.You know, I bringmore value to you.OK, watch this watch this.All right.Let's say you and I aregoing to go on a date.OK you know,Priscilla, I haven'tslept with a lot oflike, really loose women.OK what are you thinking?What are you thinking?I'm thinking you shadyimmediately, why wouldhe even bring that up?What?that's what you did.You're like, well, you know, alot more expensive than fiverand those are like theprostitutes or prostitutes,and why would youeven bring that up?I'm trying to make the parallel.I hope I didn't offend anybody.Oh, I see what you mean.Like, you're bringingup all the trash.Like, you know, I barelycommitted any crimesin my life.You're like, why wouldyou bring that up?Got it.OK, I see your point.You see, you're anchoring low.Now, I know you guyshave heard the story.I know you've heard the story.I'm working withthis, this brand.And they're like, Chris,we only have $10,000.We don't have$15,000 to do this.And now I can't get that$15,000 out of my headwhen I know I shouldbe asking for 85.The bias the anchorbias is very powerful,you do need toknow this, rememberwe are in constantcalorie preservationmode for our brain.We operate on way toolittle information.So the first piece ofinformation you hear you.Hold onto and it'shard to get rid of.This was.You understand.Yes OK, so whenyou throw out 99.You're thinking, hey, I'mgoing to leverage high,but what's the most you're goingto pay at 99 Designs or fiber?What's the most?Nine, 99.Yeah, or 400.Let's just say it'san amazing experienceand you pay 1,000 on99 designs, right?So you switch outthe word 99 for 1,000so you're sayingto him, essentiallyI'm a lot moreexpensive than $1,000.He's like, fine, I canafford five, right?You've reversedanchored yourself.Do you understand now?OK what does that mean?What is that?It's just like I caught thebeginning of the call today,and then I had to leave.But the beginningof the call, Abbywas saying like she needs towork on her presentation skillsand how she loses ground.This is how I feel when I'min, like when he was there.And he would throw thingsat me and, you know,when I was trying thisstrategy, what's your budget?I'm not going there.I don't have a budget like,who doesn't have a budget?You need to know.How did you respond?Well, I said, you needto have some kind of ideaof how much you're spending.And he's like, I don't wantto go there like, oh, OK, Igot it, I got it.This is lovely.I tried to give itthe situation to say,well, I'm not goingto be, you know,I'm bringing you ahands on service.I'm not going to be a 99design person out of somewhereready to role-playwith you right now.Oh no, this is myI'm in boxer mode.I'm like, OK, I'm ready.OK, OK, do the Muay Thai thing.All right.Are you all stretched out?You're good to go.Yeah, I'm taking my jacket off.OK, let's not strip poker.We're not doing that.OK, here we go.You ready?So who are you?Of course.You are me.OK so you are theyou're this jerk client.OK, OK, OK, OK, you guys.This could be entertaining.This could be disastrous.I have no ideawhere this is goingto go because I'venever in my lifespoken to a person like this.Or maybe I have,but I was like 20.OK, so here we go.All right, you guys ready?Are we ready?Well, limber and loose.We're good to go.All right.So what should I call you?Should I call you, priscilla?OK, I call you, Bob.What should I call you?Call me Chris.No, my name is Chris.One thing about thatsorry, his name is Chris,but I want to reallyget in his persona.OK, that's fine.You are Chris.Then?then who are?Who will I be?Will I be Chris and priscilla?You'll be Priscilla.OK with the deeper voice.Yes, that's fine.OK, here we go.So Chris, what's your budget?I don't have a budget.That's fantastic.I'm here to help youfind your budget.No but you know, I'm a startup.I have a lot of expenses,so I don't think about that.I don't think with budgets.Chris, are youflustered right now?Are you angry?No, no.I just want to get things done.I have a tradeshow in one month.OK, so you want toget things done?Chop chop.The way we get thingsdone is we needto make decisions fast, right?We're going to move fast.Yes in order for meto do work for you,I need to know if you canafford to work with me or not.Well, I want to work withyou, I know you do a good job,I know you and youknow what, priscilla?I'm going to bringyou a relationship.I want to be reference.I want you to startbeing a partner for us.Great that's what all ourclients are so fantastic.We're in alignment there.But before we canproceed, I mean,I got to know whatkind of money youcan spend because I need to knowif you can afford me or not.Well, I don't want that foryou, I want you to know.Well, how do we buy things ifwe don't know what it costs?Are you going tosign a blank cheque?What I'm trying to get doneis this beautiful Tread show.But on the as cheap as I can.I want the rolls-royce.But for 20% of theprice, don't we all?And How's thatworking out for you?I'm making it work.You're able to get a Rolls Roycefor 20% I get as much as I can,yes, but that cannot be arolls-royce now, can it?Well, maybe it's a BMW then.OK, so you want aBMW for a BMW price?No, for 20% Have you beenable to do that as well?I make it I make it work.You do.Let's go.Let's go into the carbuying and selling businessbecause if you canbuy a BMW for 20% off,we are both in thewrong business.But how can you help mewith your great design?But as you know, I want agreat relationship with you.I can give you lotsof work in the future,but I just right now I'm tight,but I want something great.So you know what?One person small budget isanother person's big budget.So let's just do this becauseI can see we're not makinga lot of progress, Chris.I see we're not makinga lot of progress.So let me just throwthis out because wegot to go chop, chop, right?Here we go.Can you for $20,000 to do this?Absolutely not.Oh, I thought, you'regoing to say absolutely.Yes no, I'll come crazy.No what can you spend?What can you give me?I want to know whatyou can give mefor I need my brochure, atrade show and a rendering.That's what I can give you,I can give you a brochure.How much will that cut?I just said $20,000for the Bronsted.The the trade show andthat that's too much.I'm sorry, then wecan't work together.OK, lovely.So you have other options.I appreciate you talking to me.Goodbye it's a bummerbecause I really want to.I know my heart's brokentoo, but you can't afford me.That's just cannot doanything better for me.I can do a lot better foryou, but it's actuallyeven more money.No, can you do?Can you do something?Ok?what if I see whatyou're saying?Five grand.What could you dofor five grand?I could do a.I mean, we're stillbreaking character here.What can you do for five grand?Can you do anything?Well, see, that's a Yes orno, Thanks to the future,I'm trying to upthat, but before Iused to do a lot ofthings like name one thingyou could do brochure andstop it one, you guys.You know what I meanwhen I say one thing?OK, Chris, you know,from five grand,we just got to cutthe other stuff out.I think I can do abrochure for you.What did you say?I think?Well, I'm not sure.I mean, you want to do this?Maybe I can makethat work for you.OK, now that's not a lot forbrochure, because I know that,isn't it?Huh?it is, isn't it?You can't squeeze in that.I mean, it takes nothingto do a trade show.It's just one panelin the background.That's all I'm asking you.I agree with you.It takes nothing to do it.So why do you needsomebody to do it?Because I don't have Illustratorand InDesign and whatever youget.OK so later today,I'm going to send youa coupon for Creative Cloud.It's free.Really, it's free.How to use it?Oh, OK, so OK.OK, let me get thisstraight, Chris.Actually, nobody can do it.And it's not about thesoftware, the tools.And because you can,you have the toolsavailable to you fornot a lot of money.Right? so you know what?I'm getting a sense of Chris.You have a tendency to diminishthe amount of work somethingrequires to justifypaying less money.Is that true?I don't think that'swhat I'm trying to do,I just I'm a startup,I have a little money.I'm going to chargefor your services.Well, that's not what I do.I'm selling this.I'm inventing thismedical machine.So it hasn'thappened yet, right?Right so how didyou make the money?How do you normallymake your money?What do you do?After that, I'll makethe money, senator,how do you make your moneytoday, like what do youdo for a living?Oh, I write grants and getmoney from other people.I ask for money.You're good at gettingmoney from other people.Yes, that's what I do.That's a really cool job.I am to get money from you.We have a lot in common.OK, well, right now, you'renot being my friend, though.Oh, I really.I tell the friends the truth.No, I really need this at a goodprice and I value what you do.So I want to work with you.OK, well, I valueyou too, and I'dlike to work with you as well.It's $5,000.I can make you a brochure or youcan hire someone else to do it,you can do it yourself.You could put it up on a jobboard, you could do anything.And then maybe you can comeback to me if you are not happy.But what you've lost istime and money to thingsthat you don't have a lot of.What would you like to do?Breaking character here,you know, the thingis, I'm too nice.It's hard to be in.It's hard to be in his shoes.Like I wish I could ask him tobecome like to come as a guestto one day, and seea real, you know,fake real roleplay because he hasthis mindset that was very like,OK, can I tell you something?Yeah you know that people onlythey take as much as you give.Mm-hmm Same thingwith your children.Right?you know that soclear boundaries help.Right?I remember this frommy family therapist.She says that children findcomfort and safety knowingthat somebody is in charge.And it's the weirdest thing.Usually when you'rearound me, you know,I'm in charge, young andold, they know I'm in chargeand other people's kidswho are, like, reallybratty and undisciplined.For some reason, when I sayto do something, they do it.And when danger comes,they stand next to me,not next to their parent.What are you projectingin terms of your energy?And they're going tofind safety and comfortin because you're in charge.Or do I feel like I can justpush you wherever I want to?You indulge in thecrazy argument?The best way to dothat is to shut it downby acknowledging itand then moving on.I don't want todebate you on this.So when he says, Idon't give budgets,you start to argue with themwhy budgets are important.Like, I don't care.Well, and I think and Ithink it's like, you know.Then maybe the situationwould have been different,just like you said, neverwork with your friendsif it wasn't a friend.Because I don't think thata client that knows youdoesn't know youwould manipulate youlike that in a sense,because I felt manipulated.No clients manipulateyou all the time.Here's the thing whenyou're working with somebodyfrom the outside world, you'readding another dimensionto it, which makes thenegotiation, even more complex.The thing is this is that aclient that doesn't work out,you never see them again.A friend that doesn't work out.You've got to dealwith this forever.That's not a good place.And you're thinking aboutthese things, right?So when the friend clientasked you for more work,you're like, Oh mygod, if I do this,then that means every time Isee Johnny at the sports club,I got to look at his face andhe's going to say bad things.It's like, I just really don't.I'll just do it.You start to negotiateagainst yourself.Right?I need you to be moreresolved in who you are,what you want to be.Excuse me.And to say no, right?You don't have to say no, no.You can say it's not a good fit.Yeah, it's my policythat we don't do this.Your other optionsthat are fine for you.Right?OK.Yeah a client called me, thisis the most ridiculous thingI want to end the call on this.I'm sorry, I couldn't getthrough everybody's questionstoday, but this is the mostridiculous thing that'shappening to me right now.Clients are callingleaving messageson my voicemail at work, andI'm like, I never get voicemail.What the heck is going on?And two calls backto back voicemail.Chris, we saw your channel.We love your work.Can you help us dosomething, chris?We saw your channel.Love your work.And I'm like, OK, shoot.I know they can't afford us.I'm going to call them anyways.This is my attitudegoing into it.I just know nobody is going to.First of all, because wedon't even do this work.So I'm like, I'm going tofind the nicest way to say no.Pick up the phone talking tothis guy, he's like, Oh my god,I can't believeyou called me back.Like, of course Iwould call you back.I just feel like I'm talkingto celebrity right now.Like, well, you knowwhat you call it,you left me a voicemail.As long as your phone numberworks, I'm calling you backand he's like, I would lovefor it to get your help.I mean, what's the problem?Because I'm launchinga new company startup.He's got a new invention.And he's tried acouple of designersbefore on these very samesites, nine designs, fiber.And it's not workedout well, and he'sspent money he doesn't have.Said, well, look,before we get too deepdown this conversation, Ihate to break it to you,but I don't do a lotof client work anymore,and I'm getting the sensealready by just talking to you.You would not beable to afford it,even if I were just to starttalking to me for a logo.And you've seen the episode.It's going to be $30,000.It goes, Oh my gosh,I can't afford that.I said, I see.I knew that, and soI want to help you.What can you afford?He's like, oh, I don't know.And he's just hemming andhawing up, can you for ten?He's like, Ten's a lot.What about 5 is like, I couldprobably make five work.I said, OK, I saw I probablyknow somebody in my networkand one can help you for five.Is that what you want?It's like, well,will you be involved?Like, no, because I justcan't do it for that.You understand, right?And let me just do this.Send me all your logos, allthese logos you've had made.I'll look at it.If I think it's good, I'lljust tell you it's goodand move on with yourlife and save yourself 5K.Ok?I'll do that for you.Why?I'd really appreciate that.He sends me the logo.I'll look at it.I right back.I said, these aren'thorrible, but herehere's the five I'mgetting from these things.It's not that legible.It feels whimsical and playful.Is that the vibe you want?Is like, OK, I'm ready tospend the five, OK, fantastic,I'll connect you to somebody.And that's it.See how it goes.right.They can't chase you so muchif you're not going to run,that's the thing.This is not going to work.I'm telling you right now,it's not going to work.Right I think thewhole time thereare two people negotiatingwith you in this conversation.It's Chris and this otherperson named Priscilla.Mm-hmm And it's hard toargue against Priscillabecause Priscilla seems toalways know the right way.And so you're saying thatlike, hey, Priscilla,should we do this?Like, Priscilla is like, Yes.It's a learning experience,it's going to be fantastic.This is like the worstclient possible ever.You should have recordedit, but but you know, youdidn't mention somepeople learn differentlyand going throughthat, that needs.I know what, I know what?I don't know whichpersonality is which.There's city, Priscilla,and there's countries.Priscilla one isthe more agreeable,but I want to talk to the lessagreeable person that person.I need to come out andplay a little bit moreto step into thelight, if you will.Yeah Yeah.OK, so let's assumecountry Priscilla isthe Oh shuckssomebody called me.It's like, it's good to do work.And it's all a goodexperience in my lifeand I'm always growing.And isn't it.Life amazing?And Priscilla islike, you know what?Step back, step backright now because I'm notwasting my time.I'm not going to spend 2 and 1/2hours to be belittled by you.Right and you justcall people out.It's what I did,call him out on it.Yeah, yeah, right.Yeah like, oh, I'mused to gettinga Rolls Royce for 20% I'mlike, sure, let's do that deal.Oh, no, I mean a BMW, I'm likefor 20% That's amazing, too.Let's do that deal.No, no.OK, so that's all BS.Right?oh, you get moneyfrom other people.You have no problemgetting money right?Oh, I'm in thesame business, too.Why can't there besymmetry and logic?Do you always winor have you everhad a client that yourI want to say technique,but has not worked, basically.I always win becausemy definition of winis different than yours.Your definition of winis I get the project.My definition win is Ieither get the projector they walk awayor they walk away.Yeah, of course, I don'twant that kind of client.Right, right.And I can see themfrom 1,000 miles away.Now look at this.I'll give you one moreexample, because I saidthere's two voicemails, right?The second voicemail,similar situation started.Channel just found outabout you a few days ago.I'm doing a magazine.I want you to get your input.I call her up as well.I'm chatting with herand said, look, you know,here's the thing you'regoing to pay me to give youfeedback on your magazine.It could take some time,and I'm not that cheap.I think you might be better offjust hiring somebody to do it.And she goes, well,what do you charge?I said $1,000 an hour.You could just bookme on the site.She goes, oh, really?I said, Yeah.And for that amountof money, youcan hire a designerwork for you for days.Yeah and she goes, what?I think I want you.I'm like, OK, I'llsend you the link.You can book me and I'llgive you my feedback.It always works out either way.Right but see, I think for you,if they go away, you've lost.Well, I see what you'resaying and, you know,because he's manipulatingon the friend thinglike, I want to work withyou, but you're right,I need to stay trueto my business.And I think the reasonhe called me back is alsobecause I did agreat presentationand I had a great proposal.I was following everythingthat I'm learning here.I was putting everythingtogether and, you know,in the future ways.So that that's where I'msaying, I'm learning.I'm taking this as alearning experiencebecause I've alreadyupped my game there.You know, rightnow I'm applying,but now this isnot paper anymoreand it's not presentation.This is actually themindset which, you know,which is a differentbeast to evolve.I know, I know.So that's whatyou got to get to.OK, so I want I'm going toend the call pretty soon.I'm going to leave youwith this piece of advice.OK, for all of you guysthat are still here.45 of you guys either doit full price or for free.Mm-hmm So you have your number.And I want you to make thedecision, so some of you guyshave been watching the afterhours with the my team, Ricky,Aaron and Jonah,and I'm realizingfor them their lifeis this kind of blur.It's just this graduated scaleof values and tones, right?So I told them, Iwant you to thinkof things in amore binary fashionwhen it comes tomaking decisions.It'll help you inthat gray space,in that gray space, whoever'sgot their alerts on,can you turn those off inthat gray space in between?You lose yourself.You lose the clarity.Right so in your example,if it's 20,010 thousand,it doesn't reallymatter that amount.And then there's allthis gray in the middleand then there's free.And in the middle, youjustify to yourselfit's a learning experienceas a relationship,there's my friends, Iwant to help them outand then everythingbecomes a Yes.So there's a hard no orfree and then everythingsounds like a Yesto you in between.So if you just remove allthe things in the middleand you're left withfull price or free,what would you doin a situation?Would you work withthis person for free?No, no.And I do have a limit.I do have a limit.Your limit seemsquite flexible to me.Well, it's probably much,much lower than yours.But there is a pointwhere I'm not going to go.No, no, no.But you see, so ideally what?You charge this person, whatwould you charge this person?For for whatever who cares,whatever you've talked about,what would you charge them?Well, I just I want toget I want to at least,you know, and I don't wantto fall back into hourly,but if I have tothink of the lowest,I need to make myhourly at least.Oh my God.Oh no, no, no stop.Stop, stop.OK, I'm just asking youbetween you and me right now.What is your price,not what you'regoing to negotiate down to?What's your price?For this work, how much?All this work, Imean, I don't wantto go lower than five grand.OK OK, so let's say fivegrand is your number.Yeah there's no hourly,there's no nothing in between.Are you going to chargeyou five grand or areyou going to do it for free?So I know you're notgoing to do for free.So nothing else inbetween is acceptable.All right.Can you start to understandthings like that?Come up with a price, right,grab what you want to charge.Yeah, OK.There's no hourly anymore.We're not doing that.That's not an option, right?Right it's not an option.It's this price or free.And if it's free, doyou want to do it?If you love theperson, go for it.If you don't.I'm not doing it right.There's no point in sayingno if you never use itor as a conceptpracticing no right.OK yeah, and you shouldhave recorded that call.I know, I know.Then then back in there.But if I do, I will.Don't go back there.Just say, you know what I mean?Chris, I've beenthinking it over.I just think you needsomebody else who can do thisfor a lot less money than me.And you deserve that.I'm just not thatperson for you.OK yeah, I'm sorry.You know what?We've just had someclarity on something.Yeah, not good.One of two options will happen.One of two options will happen.Option number one,we'll say, OK, fine.I'm just whatever.OK, great.Thanks referred me tosomebody or to Cubato come back to the tableand say, OK, you know what?I actually just dowant to work with you.I want to work with city,Priscilla, right, country,Priscilla.That's it.So you get what youwant, that's why you say,does it always work, I'mlike, it always worksbecause I get what I want.I mean, don't you?But I do have a question.When you do a proposal.Yeah and OK, and that's the onething that we didn't get to.But he wants to see allthe things in there,like all the details,like why are youtelling me that mybrochure is goingto be OK if somebody asks you?I mean, cavities, do youhave you want to tell them?If somebody asks you how old youare, do you want to tell them?So, but do you give thatanswer to the ask you,have you showered today,would you want to tell them?Some things I don'tcare, but what I meanis, would you do youanswer that to your client?What do you answer?You know, OK, I'll playthat one more time.We're way, way, way,way over time right now,but I'm going to dothis with you, ok?Because David Cole wantsthere to be a show with youand me on it.OK, so we'll talkabout that later.I saw that in thecomments there.I don't ignore the comments.OK, let's do this one more time.OK, go ahead.Chris, what do you want to know?I want to know what, what you.You price me $5,000for a brochure.What is in this $5000?I want to know exactlywhere every penny is going.Why do you want to know that?I just I just like toknow where my money goes.Your money goes into what?What can you tell you?Your money goes into myaccount that I spend in the waythat I need to, andI deliver a product.I want to know, whatare you spendingit this five grand onbecause you're not evenpricing out the printing?I need this printed to.I need three separate costs.I understand that, but I wantto know what goes into 5,000.OK, I'll just makeup a number in there.Will it matter to you becauseI'm not charging by the hour?And that's why I'll tell you whyI'm not charging by the hour,because I'm not selling my time.By the hour, I'mselling the results,which is a deliverableof the brochure.And that's what youultimately care about, right?So if I actually spendmore time than an estimate,should I build you more?Well, no, no.And all you care is if you getthe brochure done right, right?I just want to know why youcan't just like because maybe Ican find those photos for you.I don't work like that, if youcan find the photos for me,I'm still charging you 5,000.What can you just give me this?The breakdowns,like, where are yougoing to spend this five grand?Don't work like that?Well, I'm asking youto work like that.Like what?Like you just giveme your breakdownfor what purpose iswhat I'm asking you.I really want to know howI'm spending this, ok?I just need to break downthe breakdown right now.I'm going to spendone hour on this.What?Yeah.No, no, no, now you'rejust pulling my leg.And what differencedoes it make to you?Let me ask you something.Do you value me more if Ispend longer working on it?No, but I'm thinkingthat, you know,I think that you'rejust making too much.You know, they don't hire me.I just want to makesure I want to hire me,you know what, I feel likethis is an unproductive call.To be honest with you,Chris, because you'refocused on things that just inthe real world, don't matter.Let me ask you a question.Ok?right?When we were watchinga soccer game,do we value the player who'srun the field the most?Do we value the playerthat yeah, do wemeasure the success ofplayers by how much they'reon the field, running back andforth the distance they ran?I mean, don't we?I know nothing about sports,but don't we value a playerbecause he makes goals?So the more goal?OK, so all we careabout is if you onlyplay 1 minute in the gameand you kick the ball in,you're the most valuableplayer on the team, right?HMM, probably, Yes.So you want to ask me howmany hours basically you'reasking me, how long doyou run on the field?How much playtime do you get?How many?How many miles have you ran?All you care is, did I kickthe ball and the goal or not?Troops that's why Idon't work that way.Well, do you understand?I understand.You care if you'rewatching basketball,how many shots so many takesor how many that goes in.Yeah, I care aboutthat when you'retaking a test, how mucheffort somebody puts inor the percentageof correct answers.I get your point.I say, well, let's put thisto bed then to do the details.What is the bed you care about?Results?yeah, OK.That's what I care about, too.But breaking characterChris, you neverhave this discussionwith your class.No, because I don't deal withlowlifes like this, right?See, that's the problemwe're all dealing with.No, no, no.No lowlifes come to you becauseyou open the door for them.Oh, you need to acceptthat this is a harsh truthmoment right now.They come to you becauseyou open the door for them,you know, vampires can't enteryour house theoretically,unless you invite them in.That's all you do.You open it up like,hey, welcome in vampires,suck my blood.I want to be your slave.That's what you're doing.I see a vampire.I close the door.I'm done.what am I doing here?Now, you see, here's part ofthe trick about positioningnow is I position myself sothey don't even dare to call me.Because they see xbox,they see Oculus rift,they see Sony Playstation,they see league of legends,they see things thatare like, Oh my god, wecan't get inside that house.And that's why that guy ishaving this reaction to it'slike, I've seen your work.I can't believeyou're calling me.I want to make apledge that in one, Iwish it was one month,one month, I don't know,I was going to say oneyear sentence for you.I was going to say one day,but maybe one month you'regoing to make apledge in one month.You no longer talk like this.This is it.We're done.Yeah yeah, because youget what you put up with.And unfortunately,you put up with a lot.Right, right.And I understand themindset and the positioning,and I'm making these slow steps.It doesn't happen overnightand I'm working on that.But do you have anold pair of boots?I probably, Yes.But you don't use anymore.Probably I wouldn't.You put next to your desk andonce you stare at those boots?Yeah, because what thoseboots are for and for walking,they're made from walking.That's what you're going to do.OK, that's going to beyour new theme song.You know that songI'm talking about?Yep, Yep.Yep, that's what you got to do.OK, put on your boots.So we all need totems sometime.And if you're like, I don'twant boots on my desk,dirty, that's fine.Take a picture of it.Make a giant print out of it.Put it on your wall and youjust keep looking at those bootsand remind yourselfthey're made for walking.That's what you're going to do.OK, then dun dun dun dun.That's the song.That's what you'regoing to hear.Ok?are you going to use them?You're going tojust keep walking.Ok?Yeah.And I think we will haveto do this episode togetherin the future.OK I need to.I want to see him.And I see.So here's the thing, you guys,you don't understand this.You think all of a sudden,I'm going to be differentand I'm not.What happens is people willeither leave because they'relike, he's rude.He's whatever I don't want.This is BS I'm goingback to Priscilla,who says, yes, everything,and that's fine.You're right.Or you'll see them acttotally differently.And I want to prove thisto you really quickly.You know, myex-girlfriend, she and I,we just didn't have thebest of time together.And I was like, why areyou treating me like this?Why don't why do I feellike a doormat with you?Why am I picking youup from everything?Why do I have to goand help you move?What am I doing all this stuff?And then as soon as Isee what another guy?She's a whole differentperson like God.Why do you treat me like that?You know?You know what?I'm talking about.So much.You know, especially as a wife,your husband is one way at homeand another in the office.Right, right.People don't put upwith stuff, right?Because you can'tget away with that.And she couldn't getaway with the other guy.So when we meet peoplein the first few minutesin which we meetsomebody, the rulesof engagement, how wetreat each other, how wetalk to each other, ifwe respect one anotheror establish right away.And unfortunately, the energy,the words that you're using,the mindset that youhave invites themto keep walking all over you.Mm-hmm Yes yes, you're right.You're right.So if those bootsaren't walking,they're walking allover you, right?That's it.Oh, just sometimes itcomes together for me.There it is.OK, that's it.I got to run.OK, goodbye, everybody.