[00:00:00] Jodie Cook: Your customers are telling you what they want. People are telling you what the demands are. They're telling you what they need, and it's just up to you to listen. And that's when you can find the truth of what your path might be. When you just listen and then you process and then you follow.

[00:00:21] I'm Jodie Cook and you're listening to The Future.

[00:00:27] What is up everybody? Jodie reminded me that it's been almost a year or maybe a little over a year since we last spoke. I enjoyed our conversation so much that I invited her back. Welcome back, Jodie.

[00:00:37] Jodie Cook: Hey, thank you so much for having me back.

[00:00:39] Of course. Now, since then, you've written at least two articles about some things that we've done and created some really incredible AI prompts.

[00:00:46] And I think it's really helpful and useful if people actually just do it. Can you tell us a little story about how the Forbes article thing came about?

[00:00:53] Jodie Cook: So, it was because I met the editor at an event, at a Forbes [00:01:00] 30 Under 30 event. And she said that she was launching a contributor And I got her email address and followed her up and followed her up and followed her up and followed her up.

[00:01:11] And so she let me be a contributor, but I was at that event because I'd made the Forbes list. And I had made that list because I'd written a series of children's books or co written a series of children's books around giving six to nine year olds entrepreneurial role models so that when they got to the right age where they were deciding about their career, they could.

[00:01:34] choose self employment as a potential career in their future, rather than just get a job like everyone else is doing.

[00:01:40] I want to talk to you about children's books in a second, but in case people didn't catch that first episode, can you give us a quick refresh on who you are and give us the update as to what has happened in the last year?

[00:01:49] Jodie Cook: Yes, absolutely. I am founder of Coachbox AI, and we make AI coaches based on real coaches and real consultants, [00:02:00] and they generate leads from their audience, they coach their clients when they're not around, and some of them actually charge for access to the AI version of them, which seems like, you know, We're somewhere in the future.

[00:02:09] I did, we did not think that that would be possible, but it is. And then I'm a senior contributor for Forbes on the topic of AI and entrepreneurship. I previously built and sold a 20 person social media agency. So that was between the ages of 22 and 32. And I wrote a book called 10 year career, all about that.

[00:02:27] journey because it was kind of a lifestyle business at the same time and then I compete internationally in powerlifting which is squat, bench press and deadlift. I'm fully nomadic and I've lived in 35 cities in the last 10 years.

[00:02:40] Now I want to circle back with you on this whole children's books thing.

[00:02:43] And I just came to this realization recently that I was enamored with books as a child. Just the smell, the design, and because they're mostly illustrated children's books, it was very easy to consume. And I guess I lived in the world of my imagination between [00:03:00] the pages and kind of filling it in. More recently, I've, I've thought about it this way, that children's books actually aren't for children.

[00:03:06] They're adults who are trying to send a message back in time to their younger self, and trying to impart some life lesson, wisdom to them, especially the books that are really, really good. One shining example for me, The Gold Star, Shel Silverstein, or Silverstein, his book, like The Missing Piece and The Giving Tree, I feel like so deeply therapeutic.

[00:03:25] And I was thinking about how content creators tend to overcomplicate their messages and put too much in when in fact, if you could just reduce it down to that, to the point in which like a seven or nine year old child could read and learn a life lesson, I think you've done something really good. I just wanted to get your reaction to that thought.

[00:03:44] Jodie Cook: Yeah, I totally agree with reducing it down to what a child can understand. It's actually a prompt that I will use if I'm in ChatGPT or in Claude. I will say, explain this to a six year old or write at a fifth grade level and trying [00:04:00] to get it as simple as possible because I think what we were taught at school about how to write, it was all formal and Use big, complicated words and try and sound more clever, but for online writing and for getting your real message across, you want to be as simple as possible and you do not want to use complicated words or things that you wouldn't say in real life, so it's big.

[00:04:22] What do you think that is besides the way that we're taught to write? There's something else going on that we're carrying into adulthood that allows or gets us into the rhythm or a habit of writing in a way that no one talks like that. If you read your words out loud, it's just like, who's talking right now?

[00:04:36] It doesn't even sound like me.

[00:04:37] Jodie Cook: Yeah, stop it, you always want to hit someone over the head and say, regenerate, it's wrong. Well, I guess writing is communication and talking is just communication. And the whole point of it is that we get on a level with people and we find things in common because it's an evolutionary thing.

[00:04:51] Like we work in tribes and we, we look after each other. So I feel like if you use complicated words, you're almost saying, well, I know this word, but do you know this [00:05:00] word? And maybe they don't. So it's, I think it's kinder to use just simple words for everyone and also because I travel a lot, I'm often in different countries where people, where English isn't their first language or where I'm trying to speak Spanish and failing miserably.

[00:05:13] So you kind of do simplify your language and you realize just how much faster it is to get on with someone when you speak compassionately and you say something in the way that they're going to understand, even if it makes your, your accent sound a bit silly because you're trying to say it in a way that makes sense.

[00:05:29] the most sense of someone where English isn't their first language. So I think it's all a communication thing.

[00:05:34] Oh, I never thought of it that way. If you're a citizen of the world, kind of a digital nomad as the term is being used, you're encountering lots of different cultures. And it's quite interesting how much we can communicate with gestures or nonverbal cues, but then we have to make sure what we're saying is being received.

[00:05:50] Perceived in the way that we intended. So if we use big $6 words, then all of a sudden it's like, wait. They don't understand, and we're just flexing on people and the communication breaks [00:06:00] down. So that's a great exercise. Get out there in the world, meet people from different cultures, and it'll change the way that you communicate.

[00:06:05] Right?

[00:06:06] Jodie Cook: I think it's in the book, the Alchemist, where they talk about the language of the world. And I feel like I experience the language of the world all the time because right now I'm in Barcelona and in the gym, most people speak Spanish but fairly good English at the same time. I can speak a bit of Spanish.

[00:06:22] And so when we're communicating, it's kind of Spanglish. The mix between Spanish and English, but it doesn't really matter what you say. It matters more how you say it. And because everyone's so friendly and it's like, do you need this bar? Do you need these weights? Are you using this area? Can I use this after you?

[00:06:37] All that stuff. It doesn't really matter the words that you're saying because you know, like you're in the gym. There's only you. It's only a set of things that you actually say. But what matters the most is that the, is the energy that you are conveying while you're saying the words so much more.

[00:06:51] Yeah. So the, the depth of conversation that you're having in gym is limited to, are you using this?

[00:06:55] Can I use this? Are we good? Am I in your way? So they're not going to ask you about [00:07:00] your personal success system, are they?

[00:07:02] Jodie Cook: They are not, no. It's very much like, it'll be kind of Spanish, Spanish, Spanish, Spanish, deadlift, Spanish, Spanish, Spanish, Spanish, handstand walking. And you kind of know roughly what they're saying, so then it's fine.

[00:07:13] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:14] Okay. Well, let's get to the topic at hand here. What you want to talk about. The thing I'm excited to, to learn from you is this idea of your personal success system. What is that and what does it entail?

[00:07:25] Jodie Cook: I believe that everyone has a personal success system. I think no two systems are the same, but I think once you find yours, you can apply it to every area of your life and you can achieve anything you want.

[00:07:40] That's a bold promise. That's a big claim there. Oh my goodness.

[00:07:44] Jodie Cook: Okay, so billionaires have success systems. People that you have definitely heard of have success systems. So I'll tell you about a few of them. And then you might start thinking of yours as you're hearing theirs, but Taylor Swift, start with Taylor Swift.

[00:07:56] Her success system is that she goes on dates. [00:08:00] And funny things happen. So guys say silly things to her, funny circumstances happen, and she talks to her friends about them. And when her friend goes, Ha! That happened to me too. I didn't realize it happened to you. Or when her friend goes, like, oh my goodness, I can't believe that happened.

[00:08:14] Like when they're kind of amazed at it, then she will write a song about that thing. So she kind of makes fun of herself in songs. And that's pretty much how she knows that the song will resonate. And it's how she's had hit single after hit single after hit single just by following that exact process.

[00:08:30] Okay. I have to ask you about that.

[00:08:33] Jodie Cook: So then Jeff Bezos has got a personal success system and his is, or his was when he was CEO of Amazon, that he would think of an idea or someone in his team would think of an idea. They would reduce it down to a single press release before they built it. And then they would tell a certain subsection of their audience about it.

[00:08:51] They would only build the things that got a reaction. And then when they built them, they wouldn't mind if they failed. So you know the Amazon [00:09:00] successes, I don't know, Kindle and all the things that have gone well for them and then you've got like the fire phone and that little button that you stick on your washing machine to remind you to order detergent like the things that just didn't work at all but he doesn't care if it doesn't work because part of his success system is that some things will work and some things just won't.

[00:09:16] And then I quite like thinking about Elon Musk as well because I think overall his success system is just be a bit crazy, but at the same time it's like think big, reduce everything to first principles and then only be constrained by physics and then keep going and sleep under your desk. All the people that you can think of who have had success after success after success, they've got their way of doing it that replicates every single time.

[00:09:40] All right, I want to follow up with Taylor Swift. So part of her success formula sounds like is to be a serial dater and seemingly to date famous people also in her sphere and then tell that story to people and see what sticks, right? The question is, What happens when she gets married? [00:10:00]

[00:10:00] Jodie Cook: Yeah. She'll have to find a different success system.

[00:10:02] She'll have to close that chapter of her life and be a different Taytay.

[00:10:06] Yeah. And I've heard this before about some women who sing about heartache and, and misery and sadness. And it's a strange thing for me to say, but I think art is better when it comes from a deeply emotional place, mostly a dark place.

[00:10:18] And so when people get successful and happy and their relationships are stable, the art. And this is probably a correlation and not causal, where it seems like it falls off. So people are like, Oh, now that they're happy, watch how the songs suffer. And it does tend to fall out formally. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[00:10:34] Jodie Cook: I think you could almost fabricate drama to keep your art going. And I think artists. Probably in the past have really done that. Everything could have been fine, but they needed material. So they made something not fine. They lit the fire so they could write about the fire. That's probably happened again and again and again.

[00:10:53] And maybe it's quite a strange existential crisis when you realize that the life you're living [00:11:00] has to keep going in a certain way to sustain your art, but you want to make a change. But then what happens to that? I think it's quite a big, bold move to say, no, hang on, I'm going to be a different person.

[00:11:09] And therefore, my art will change as a result of that and it will just be different. I don't know the right answer.

[00:11:14] Yeah, well, like I imagine if Van Gogh was happy and everything was working out in his life, we wouldn't get the incredible art that we got. Because there's so much suffering and pain and emotion and what he's trying to share with you and the acts that he'll take.

[00:11:28] And it creates beautiful art, but it doesn't last very long. In terms of like, a person's life or that kind of, You can only live in anguish for so long before you tear yourself apart, I think.

[00:11:38] Jodie Cook: I read about an artist who I think was a writer who would get paid for a big piece of work and then when he got paid he would go straight to the casino and he would put it all on red or black and he would just keep going until it was gone because he needed that.

[00:11:55] rock bottom to create his art again and keep doing it.

[00:11:58] Yeah. So is that what you [00:12:00] mean? Like they'll manufacture it one way or the other to get back to that place?

[00:12:03] Jodie Cook: Potentially, but I guess it kind of does come back to the success system thing because if your success system starts by going on a date and then it doesn't work when you get married or if your success system works a friend is about adversity.

[00:12:15] So when something comes up where she goes, hang on, that's not fair, or she feels this sense of injustice, that's when she knows that something good's about to happen because that's how she thrives. So when that is taken away, then you've got a whole different system that you have to follow, which isn't the one that you've been doing the whole time.

[00:12:33] Well, you said something big at the very beginning, which is everyone has a personal success system and if they follow this, they can achieve pretty much anything that they want. So, if somebody is listening to this or watching this episode and saying, I don't feel successful, so what do you mean I have a success system?

[00:12:49] Even those that are struggling to make ends meet have a success system?

[00:12:53] Jodie Cook: Yeah, for sure. Caveat on the word success is a big word and it has to be your success, [00:13:00] your truth, your version of success. And I feel like before coming up with your success system, Define what success means to you. Cause it's, that's also different to everyone.

[00:13:11] One person's hell is another person's heaven. So that has to come first. And then after that, it's about going back through probably your entire life and thinking about when you achieve the version of success that you stand by as being your true version of success. And then really digging into that moment that you achieved it.

[00:13:33] So think about who you were at the time, what you had to do to get there, who you had to be. Maybe if there were certain people who were involved in that success and then keep doing that with all of them. Even if there's, there might be two, there might be three, you might be able to start thinking of loads of them, but find the patterns through all of them because there will be patterns.

[00:13:55] And chances are those patterns are the things that create success for you. And it might [00:14:00] be people, places, practices, processes. If something happens external and how you react to it, there'll be patterns in there for sure.

[00:14:07] What is Jodi's personal success system?

[00:14:10] Jodie Cook: So mine very much starts with setting an intention, a very definite intention.

[00:14:15] And that's either, I don't know, I'm, I'm going to sell my agency or I'm going to win a medal at this competition, or I'm going to get a publisher for a book. And the next thing I will do is I will speak to people who have done it. So some people learn from. YouTube videos, some people will learn from writing books or going to mastermind or whatever, but mine's just find someone who's done it and just talk to them about what they did.

[00:14:35] And not really talking to them about, about it in such a way that they're teaching me, but more that they're just telling me their experience of doing it. So then I'll try and find multiple people who have done the thing, and they might not be in my immediate network, but I would probably just reach out to people and say, Hey, you did this cool thing.

[00:14:51] I'm trying to do it too. Tell me more. And then after that, I would make myself a plan based on all that information. And then what I [00:15:00] do is split this plan into things that I can do on repeat every single day. So that might be 30 minutes a day working towards something like when I wrote 10 year career, I split my plan into 90 minutes every single day working on it just without fail.

[00:15:16] It was like this idea that, well, I actually had a, I made myself a little spreadsheet and I colored in the cells of the days in order to make sure I didn't skip a day. And then my fifth step in the success system will be just visualize it. So fully shut my eyes, imagine it coming true, feeling it. this thing happening almost with like every part of my body and kind of being the person who has made this come true.

[00:15:45] So fully visualizing it. Like when I saw my agency, I wrote myself a pretend check and it was like one social media agency to the perfect buyer. And I wrote the date and I signed it and I looked at it and I stared at it and I was just like, this is going to come true. I like it. I'm going to make it come true.

[00:15:59] And [00:16:00] then number six is just persist. And that's the absolute relentless bang on all the doors you need to do whatever you need to do. Keep stringing the good days of action together to make it happen. I first realized that I had this success system when how I wrote my book and got a publisher was exactly the same way I sold my agency.

[00:16:16] And so now I'm like, if I need to do anything, I'm like, go back to the system. Look, how can I follow these exact steps with anything else that, anything else that might come up in the future?

[00:16:26] When you said about the check, you literally wrote yourself the check or you visualize the check?

[00:16:29] Jodie Cook: Yeah, I wrote it down.

[00:16:30] I just got a notebook, pretend wrote a check. Since I've told people this, some people have written their pretend checks about a big thing that they want to sell. And then they visualize theirs coming true as well. There's something about it for sure that makes it happen.

[00:16:44] There's a very famous version of this.

[00:16:46] idea by Jim Carrey, who wrote himself a check when he's a broke struggling stand up comic. And I don't remember the exact details, but it was a very specific amount of time for a very specific amount of money for doing something. And sure enough to the day, I guess [00:17:00] when, when that happened, he was like, there it is.

[00:17:01] I can cash this check now. And I wrote it to myself.

[00:17:04] Jodie Cook: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe that's where I got the idea from. I don't know. But yeah, the date I wrote on the check was within two weeks of meeting the buyer.

[00:17:12] Isn't that weird?

[00:17:13] Jodie Cook: And we sold for the exact amount. Just

[00:17:15] wow. 10 million for being an amazing standup comic or something like that.

[00:17:22] And then he started in some film. I can't remember what it was. And sure enough, that's the check that he got from his fee for being in the film. So incredible idea about visualization, planning your abilities to talk to other people, to kind of see what they're doing. What they were able to do so that you can formulate your own plan and making sure that you don't just talk to one person because it might've worked for them, but it might not work for you.

[00:17:43] So you're building a composite of different ideas. And it's sometimes real interesting when we do enough research and we talk to enough, maybe like five people. I don't want to say that, like you need to talk to 3000 people, but you start to see patterns and where it's overlap, it's hard to dispute that that's some kind of anomaly.

[00:17:58] It still could be an [00:18:00] anomaly, but then you're, you're limiting the edge case stuff. It's like people are saying over and over again, I keep doing this thing and it keeps working, and you're like, wow, I think there's something there. It's like you now are saying, I want to formalize my recipe so that if I have a hit dish, I can serve that dish at a party without stressing out if I've got the proportions right.

[00:18:21] Jodie Cook: And I feel like when I'm asking the other people as well, the reason I don't need them to give me a step-by-step guide is because really what I'm missing out for is their beliefs. So that's all that matters. The how isn't so important because the how might change. But if I can understand what they believe to be true, then I know the beliefs that I have to adopt in order to make that thing happen as well.

[00:18:42] And so I remember before I sold my agency, I spoke to someone who had an agency probably about, um, It might have been about five times bigger than mine. And she said something like, Oh, it's easy to find buyers. They're everywhere. And I was like, okay, so I need to believe that. I need to believe it's easy to find buyers.

[00:18:57] They're everywhere. And then that's the belief that then [00:19:00] serves you and lets you do the rest of it. All the plan.

[00:19:02] There's something that you said, and I want you to respond to this. And you said, I'm really listening for beliefs. Because the how can change. And I find that kind of real interesting. One of my team members went to Tony Robbins, like four or five day business mastery class.

[00:19:18] And one of the things that he came back with, the only thing I can remember from what he told me was don't get caught in the tyranny of the how. I just want you to respond to that because there's a lot of people who ask me, Chris, what do I need to do? And what they want is literally step by step by step.

[00:19:33] And I keep telling them, that's not what this game is about. Understand the big concepts. Then you'll figure out the how.

[00:19:39] Jodie Cook: I think so much of it is not about trying to copy someone else's blueprint. I think it's about finding the one that is right for you. And so it's so much less around which exact steps did you follow?

[00:19:54] And it's more about what beliefs did you need to hold? But then, What I think I like to do [00:20:00] is just try and get clarity of thought and not try and add things in that I have to do, but try and take things out that I shouldn't do. So then you clear space. And then when you clear the space, then you can use your own ace cards and you can do it your way.

[00:20:15] And you can listen to what everything is trying to tell you, because that's the crazy thing as well. Like your customers are telling you what they want. People are telling you what the demands are, they're telling you what they need, and it's just up to you to listen. And that's when you can find clarity.

[00:20:28] the truth of what your path might be when you just listen and then you process and then you follow. And then I feel like achieving success then feels so much. more natural. It feels more like you're flowing and you're going with it rather than you're pushing against something or you're like fighting hard.

[00:20:46] It's like here, it's very busy around Barcelona. And if you walk down the street in a rush and pushing people out of the way and trying to get past people and huffing and puffing at people that are going slowly, you would have a horrible experience. Whereas if you just kind of, [00:21:00] you flow, you glide, there's a space there.

[00:21:01] So you kind of go there and you glide down the street. And that's, I feel like, a more happy, in tune with yourself way of achieving success, whatever your version is.

[00:21:12] I want to get your reaction to something. I'm just like, the things that you're saying echo some of the things that I'm thinking, but maybe we might not have the exact same read on this.

[00:21:21] I think sometimes people will ask you for the exact how to steps, like literally every step of the way, because they're afraid of making a mistake. And so much about leadership and entrepreneurship and finding your own way is like, there's no way for you to avoid mistakes. And if you try to, you probably wind up doing nothing.

[00:21:38] So I have a really good friend and she told me, Hey, Chris, I'm doing your plan. I'm like, what plan? Well, I'm doing what you've done. I said, But you can't do what I've done because that time doesn't exist anymore, and you don't have the resources that I have, so this is a plan for failure. When we try to copy someone else's how, like literally their blueprint, we don't take into account the [00:22:00] time and place in which those opportunities happen.

[00:22:02] Ten years from now, there will be many millionaires and billionaires who capitalize on what's happening with AI. And to say like ten years later, let's, let's rush in on the gold rush on AI, It's like the time has passed, friend. If you did the exact same thing, it's not going to work. So I really resonate with this idea of figuring out the belief, maybe some of the bigger ideas, and then adapt the how to the time and place that you're in.

[00:22:26] So my friend was like, yeah, so I'm building a big audience, Chris. I'm going all in on giving generously. I'm like, that's fantastic. I love that. But do you realize one thing? I don't have to work for a living anymore. I didn't sell my company like you did, Jody, but I have made enough money that that money sustains me and my wife and family for the rest of our life.

[00:22:44] So I get to play now. And if you have to make money, copying this same plan is going to send you to the poor house. And they don't think about those things. They're like, I'm just doing what you're doing, but you don't have what I have and you haven't done what I've done. And that time doesn't exist right now.[00:23:00]

[00:23:00] Cause that was like a 10 year old plan. What are your thoughts or reaction to what I just said?

[00:23:04] Jodie Cook: I think it's very dangerous trying to copy someone else's plan because ultimately, you're not them. And not only might it be very, very outdated, but it plays down. your own ace cards. It completely plays down who you are because your friend has probably got all their own talents, skills, things that they could use that might send them in a very different direction, but would still ultimately lead to her version of success.

[00:23:26] And she's just completely ignoring them. I had something quite similar when I Actually the podcast that we recorded a year ago, I was on another one that week and I was preparing for it in the worst possible way by watching his previous episodes with other guests. And I watched Daniel Priestly's episode and I was like, Oh, he's got all these stats and stories and, and all these things.

[00:23:49] Maybe that's what I need to do to make a good podcast episode. And I watched another lady. He was very, very like American. And she kind of did like short, sharp hand gestures. And she was like, directly down the camera and that kind of [00:24:00] thing. And I was like, Oh, no, maybe I need to be like that to succeed in this podcast.

[00:24:03] And, and then I think the message I ultimately got to when I realized that he had like 400 episodes and I couldn't be like every single guest was just be more you. And that's what I just tried to get back to. And so in preparing for that, rather than watching any more different episodes or trying to be anyone else, I just meditated.

[00:24:26] Got my eyelashes done, got my hair done, napped all day, and then also read my own website, because I was like, I don't need to remember someone else's concepts, I just need to know mine, I just need to remember mine, and then we can talk about that. And then it ends up being good, because you're kind of leaning into who you are yourself, rather than trying to be someone else.

[00:24:43] Is this the ace card that you're talking about?

[00:24:46] Jodie Cook: Yeah, I think so. So yeah, someone's ace cards are just pretty much the things that they have that are some kind of, I don't want to use the word advantage because this isn't about competing in any way. This isn't about you having something [00:25:00] over someone else.

[00:25:00] It's just those things that you've got that you may be underplay, but they're really big. They're really big factors. They underpin your success and they're just, awesome and you should use them more. And not everyone knows who they are, but there's ways of, there's ways of finding what your own ace cards are.

[00:25:16] What are your ace cards?

[00:25:18] Jodie Cook: I should have seen that one coming. I like being put on the spot. I like going live. I like doing live recordings, live presentations, that kind of stuff. I would say one is extreme empathy. And just understanding the other person, sometimes to a level where it's uncomfortable, because you can feel so much what they're going through.

[00:25:35] In between businesses, I coached agency owners on how to sell their agency. And that was cool because I'd done it and I could teach them kind of roughly how to do it and the belief that you needed. But, It was tough because I remember being, it took me back to the stage of, I really want to sell my agency.

[00:25:50] And that's where they were. And I was feeling all that, just really wanting to get it done. And that was tough. And then, so another one is customer service. [00:26:00] And I at first thought this was a massive weakness when I went from agency to software, because When you run an agency your clients are worth like thousands and thousands but CoachBox is 99 a month so it's like oh no I've got this like agency baggage and I'm going to over service I'm going to look after people too much and I'm going to be too busy but really that's a massive strength and if you can apply agency care to a SaaS product then you're just winning so some of them take a bit of reframing before you realize they're ace cards.

[00:26:29] And then maybe a final one is seeing the funny side and not taking myself too seriously and be able to laugh about stuff, which I think maybe comes from just having perspective, getting perspective.

[00:26:39] Very interesting. I thought you were going to say a couple of other things and I have to ask you about this.

[00:26:44] You don't think one of your ace cards is your focus, determination and persistence, especially when it comes to your physical fitness?

[00:26:50] Jodie Cook: Yeah, I'd say that. I'll have that one as well.

[00:26:52] Okay. You don't think one of your ace cards is that, uh, you're British, right? You don't think that's one of your ace cards?[00:27:00]

[00:27:00] Jodie Cook: Yeah, it can be. Being British can be a big advantage, especially when you're in America. I think the lowest ROI you get for your British accent is in the UK because everyone else is British and no one cares. But when you go to America, they're like, Oh my God, your accent! And they just love it. And then they think you're really clever.

[00:27:17] Yeah. So yeah, I would say in America. Internationally, my British accent does probably open doors. Yeah.

[00:27:24] That goes to something else that I think about a lot, which is when we talk about brand or personal brand, we talk about being different. So in amongst a bunch of Brits, you're kind of the same. And maybe you have a more or less posh accent than someone else, or you're grittier when you need to be or whatever.

[00:27:39] But in America, The chances of you hanging out with a bunch of Brits are a little bit lower. And so you're going to stand out just by default. So there's this other expression, like you can't be a prophet in your own land. And it's kind of true. Like in a lot of places, people look up to me at home. No one looks up to me.

[00:27:57] Everyone just talks down to me the whole time. It's like, [00:28:00] you're just called dad or my husband. at home, right? But in the world, I'm like, Hey, I have some information. I'd like to share it with you. It's like, we're so excited to see you. You know, when I come home, like, Hey, can you take out the trash? I'm like, yeah, okay, sure.

[00:28:12] I can do that. Fix this thing. I'm like, okay.

[00:28:15] Jodie Cook: And in other countries, they're like, what? You're asking Chris Do to take out the trash? Like, no. He's far too important for that. I think being the odd one out and getting comfortable with being the odd one out is a really good thing. And I have, I have this sometimes, sometimes in the gym, because often if you're a powerlifter training at CrossFit gyms, which I normally train at, then you will, you will often be very, very strong because you just train in a different way, you train for like one rep maxes rather than for high volume and, and kind of more endurance sessions.

[00:28:44] So often when I deadlift, people would just look at me. And so I had to kind of get over that. But then you get over it by thinking, what's the alternative? The alternative is that no one looks because you're unremarkable and you're not doing anything exceptional. So then you're like, okay, well, [00:29:00] maybe I'm okay with people watching then.

[00:29:01] And then you kind of reframe it as a good thing. And then you're okay with being the odd one out.

[00:29:05] So I don't know anything about powerlifting. So when it comes to powerlifting, the idea is to hit personal best personal records. That's powerlifting.

[00:29:12] Jodie Cook: Yeah, when you compete, you're trying to lift a squat, a bench press, and a deadlift for one max.

[00:29:18] So you get three attempts at each lift, and the idea is to lift as much as possible, and then you're scored as a kind of coefficient of your body weight. So, I'm like against people who will weigh the same as me, but then there's a kind of overall, everyone, it's all leveled out depending on how much you weigh and how much you lift.

[00:29:35] Right. It's strength of mass ratio, right?

[00:29:38] Jodie Cook: Yes.

[00:29:39] Yeah. So you compete with people in your weight class and you're trying to push that limit. This is something I've always wondered because, you know, Olympics being, you know, right behind us and ahead of us is I always think like when you're practicing in the gym, don't you already know what your max is?

[00:29:55] But it seems like when they go onto the stage. They're able to shock [00:30:00] themselves, which is mind blowing to me. Like, I thought you were, like, ready to do that weight. What happened?

[00:30:04] Jodie Cook: Yeah. I know. It's crazy. Well, people handle competing in a very different way. Some people love the audience. Some people love the lights, the stage, the cameras, the preparation.

[00:30:16] Some people just don't. They just do better in the gym. It's very, I think being able to handle a competition is a skill just like squat bench and deadlift is a skill. But I have a video of me lifting both of them like my, my max deadlift number in the gym in a competition. And they were two weeks apart.

[00:30:35] If anything, I was made, yeah, I think I was probably about the same rest of both. I was about the same hydrated, everything else, about the same body weight. And in a competition, and in the gym, I just took ages. And it's because I love the crowd. I love the people shouting. I love being, it being a really big deal, but not everyone loves it.

[00:30:54] Some people will just, they'll, the nerves will get to them.

[00:30:57] So you're getting, I assume, a little bit of an [00:31:00] adrenaline pump. And then you could just push beyond what you thought you could do, right?

[00:31:04] Jodie Cook: Yes, I think so. But also I feel like because before a competition, I visualize everything so much in my head.

[00:31:12] I try and get it to the point where it feels less like I'm going and lifting the weight and more like I'm stepping into the version of myself that's already done it. As strange as that might sound, I try and get so familiar with it that it feels like it's already happened.

[00:31:27] You've already seen the reality, now you're just waiting for it to catch up to that timeline.

[00:31:31] Jodie Cook: Kind of. Because I think the thing that kills a lift is not really strength or nerves, it is your confidence. Like you, you believe you can do it and you, you can, I mean, within reason, but then if you believe you can't, you definitely, definitely can't and you won't cause you can't get over the mindset of it.

[00:31:48] Yeah. It's interesting when I exercise, I have a home gym, I'll say to myself, I'm not feeling so strong today. I don't have a lot of energy and I'll just do five. And when I get to four, like the fifth one is so [00:32:00] hard, but sometimes like, man, I am going to crush today. I'm going to do eight. And then you do eight and it's not a problem.

[00:32:07] Same way. Yeah. Exactly. The psychology of it really does affect you. You kind of commit something and then your body responds accordingly.

[00:32:14] Jodie Cook: Yeah. So what you just said about the difference between 4 and 5 and how you feel going into 5. We call it last rep syndrome, where you just, even if it's not hard, even if the first four have been totally fine, you act like the last one's going to be hard and then it is.

[00:32:30] So the, the counter phrase to last rep syndrome is just last rep, best rep, just like say it last rep, best rep, and then do it like it's the best one and then leave on a high rather than thinking, oh, it's the last one, it's going to be hard and acting accordingly.

[00:32:44] Okay. I like that reframe.

[00:32:47] Jodie Cook: Let's go.

[00:32:48] Your whole thing about powerlifting and visualizing is consistent to your success formula.

[00:32:54] That's the, I think, step seven or eight there in that thing. The last one being persist, right? So [00:33:00] visualization is an important part to your success formula.

[00:33:02] Jodie Cook: Yeah. Yeah. Really big. I feel like I want to have seen it. Maybe that's the thing. Maybe if you, because I almost feel like it's a cheat code because you can visualize anything you want and no one's going to stop you.

[00:33:14] Yeah. Whatever you want to achieve in your whole life, you could just shut your eyes and you can imagine it happening right now. And no one, you don't need to get permission to do it. You can just do it. So if you just keep doing it over and over and over again, I feel like you get a sense of familiarity with it.

[00:33:27] And then it means that you do have the confidence to believe that you can do it because you're like, well, I just did it. Like I saw it, it happened. And then it does happen in real life. What's your success system?

[00:33:38] Well, I'll get a second. I want to share one more goofy story with you and get your take on it.

[00:33:42] I was in Beijing, part of a. some kind of documentary film I was a part of. And we had this moment, there weren't many moments on our trip because we're traveling and shooting all the time, where we had a quiet moment. So my cinematographer and I, we went up to the whatever floor, pretty high up in the gym, and we're on [00:34:00] the treadmill.

[00:34:00] And I don't like running on the treadmill. I'd rather run outside, but treadmills, like, whatever. And we're looking out on this massive street. I feel like it's an eight lane road or something, with these skyscrapers. And I'm running and everything, and later in that day, we get into the van, because we're going to the next location.

[00:34:16] And my cinematographer asked me, Chris, I saw you over there. And when you're running on the treadmill, What do you think about? And I thought to myself, should I edit what I say to make it more palatable for everybody in the car? Because there's like seven or eight of us in the car. And I said to him, I think about greatness.

[00:34:33] And he smiled and he's like, me too. I said, because I was sitting there running on the treadmill, overlooking the skyline in Beijing on a shoot that I shouldn't be here for. Just thinking like, what did I do in my life to be here? You know what? Frickin I did a lot of right things to be here. And I need that motivation to stay in that treadmill versus to like, that's enough running.

[00:34:55] Now I share that with you because people will judge you for thinking crazy things like that. [00:35:00] And it was shocking to me that he's like, Yeah, I think about the same thing too. This is crazy. So I'm curious. What you think about when you're doing one of these endurance things that you just don't like.

[00:35:09] Jodie Cook: I think about greatness.

[00:35:12] So thinking about greatness very much comes from the hormones that you are releasing while you're doing exercise. Because it's, I think they're called hopeful hormones or they're called something that, you know, when you're not really feeling it that day, and then you're like, okay, I'm going to go for a run or I'm going to go to the gym and you always feel better without fail.

[00:35:27] And it's because of those hormones that pick you up and make you feel like that. I think if I was doing running or cardio of some sorts, I'm really trying to think about nothing because I'm trying to get that clarity of thought. So I'm trying not to run through the day and what I need to do and stuff.

[00:35:42] I'm trying to clear the noise, focus on space. And trust that my default mode network is wearing through stuff and it's working it out and it's doing its job, but then I think greatness, probably I felt a sense of, [00:36:00] that you also think about gratitude, like you're grateful for stuff right there and then, but I think that comes from being in the moment at the same time.

[00:36:06] So yeah, I feel like it's all, it's all one and the same. It's the same kind of nice, it's a good feeling.

[00:36:11] Okay, so I'm not some freakazoid, egomaniac person. I do feel a great sense of gratitude, like what is going on? Like where am I? I'm on a treadmill on the 30th or 40th floor on this building I've never been to.

[00:36:24] And this whole experience has just opened me up to all this. And it's like, you know what? I'm not going to beat myself up over this. Like I deserve this because I earned this. And then it kind of just, I'm living in that state. I'm just like, let's keep running. Let's just keep going.

[00:36:37] Jodie Cook: So also it's height that does that for you as well.

[00:36:39] So do you know when space men and women go up to space and they see the earth and they get that sense of cosmic oneness when they're like, oh my goodness, the earth is so beautiful and everyone's amazing and we all want the same things and everything's just all about love, that kind of feeling. So if you think of the opposite of that, the opposite is that you live on the first floor, And [00:37:00] you can constantly hear people walking past you and they're chattering and you can hear the cars and they're beating their horns and it's really annoying.

[00:37:06] So there's something about when people are very close to you, you feel like they're kind of, they have the potential to annoy you. Whereas the higher up you go, the more you get perspective and the more that you see your place in the world and how you're all the same. So there's probably something to do with that as well.

[00:37:20] If you were on the 30th floor that you had that sense of gratitude, cosmic oneness. And that probably links to greatness and everything else.

[00:37:29] Ellie: It's time for a quick break, but we'll be right back.

[00:37:40] Are you committed to making 2024 your best year in business? We want to help you make it happen with expert guidance, a supportive community and exclusive trainings. The future pro membership was created to give you everything you need to take your business to the next level. Go to the future. com site.

[00:37:57] Slash Pro to learn more and join us inside. [00:38:00] Okay. Back to the conversation.

[00:38:07] Ellie: And we're back. Welcome back to our conversation.

[00:38:10] So you're getting perspective and you're starting to feel where you fit into the world quite literally, because you can see things that you can't see. And also for me, 'cause I'm afraid of heights to a degree. A lot more when I was a kid. When I look over that and I look down, I get the weird heebie jeebies, the weird sense of, uh, what is that, vertigo?

[00:38:29] I'm like, oh, am I going to fall? No, I'm safe. Everything's good. But then you can see things and you feel like you have clarity and calmness. And then the sense that there's a lot of us out there and we're kind of reducing people down to whole groups versus like individually, that neighbor's bothering me.

[00:38:46] That kid is doing something I like or don't like. It's that, that sense, right? I didn't know that astronauts had the same feeling of like the cosmic wonder, like our place in the universe and how we're all one really big tribe.

[00:38:59] Jodie Cook: I think so. You [00:39:00] just see you as being the same as everyone else, which I think, I feel like whenever someone makes a good decision in business and leadership and anything, it's because they've managed to.

[00:39:13] Lead with love and not fear. And that all comes from the perspective side of things too.

[00:39:18] When you asked me the question about my own personal success system, I'm not sure I know what it is. I've not sit down to think about it.

[00:39:25] Jodie Cook: So let's try, see if we can find it. All

[00:39:28] right. Buckle up.

[00:39:31] Jodie Cook: First question. Don't think about this too much, but what's the thing that springs to mind as being Your biggest success as defined by only you, probably a business success is a good one too.

[00:39:42] Okay, let's start there. I have a problem with the only, the only defined by you because I've, I have a team and the team helps make things possible. Is it okay to think of one like that?

[00:39:53] Jodie Cook: I mean more like your version of success. So it has to be one that like truly meant something to you. Not like it felt like it [00:40:00] should mean something to you.

[00:40:01] Okay, let's say being a public speaker.

[00:40:05] Jodie Cook: Yeah. Okay. So kind of realizing that you had got to a certain level as a public speaker.

[00:40:10] Yes.

[00:40:11] Jodie Cook: Was that a specific moment when you had that realization?

[00:40:15] There are stages and there are different moments and the moments keep getting bigger. So I'm like, maybe this is the new marker.

[00:40:20] I'm not quite sure.

[00:40:21] Jodie Cook: So go to one of those moments.

[00:40:23] Okay.

[00:40:23] Jodie Cook: What had led up to that point?

[00:40:26] Do you want me to retrace it to the beginning or just the moment prior to this?

[00:40:30] Jodie Cook: I would retrace it to the moment. That you knew that you were working towards that specific milestone. And then the moment that you felt like you'd achieved that milestone.

[00:40:41] Almost so it has a start and an end. Because that's a long journey. Because the, being a public speaker is quite a long journey. But the, the whole like, this is my one goal that I've got right now. And then this is the, This is the moment I knew I achieved it.

[00:40:55] Okay. I might mess this up for you because I'm not even sure I wanted to be a public [00:41:00] speaker.

[00:41:00] I'm a reluctant public speaker. And the moment that started it for me, that was the catalyst for all of this is that my business coach at that time said, stop being the world's best kept secret. You have things to offer, and I'm sure people want to hear from you. And as an introvert, socially awkward kid, I'm like, everything I don't want to do is packaged up in what you just asked me to do.

[00:41:20] But he said, go do it. And so I went on this long journey. Couple of highs, couple of lows.

[00:41:27] Jodie Cook: So I'm kind of cheating because I've already read a lot of your stuff and like, I, I feel like I know more of the backstory. So you've just, you just said reluctant public speaker, and you also describe yourself as a loud introvert.

[00:41:40] So what is it about these complete opposites? Like the, it's like the shadow word thing right? You find the things that people are calling you or you find your weaknesses and then you reframe them. Is there something in that that forms part of your success system maybe? Is there? Mm. Yeah, what's coming up?

[00:41:58] Okay. Okay. All right.

[00:41:59] You, [00:42:00] you, you have my permission to lead the witness on this because I don't know what I'm doing here. I did not describe myself as a loud introvert for a really long time. I'm just an introvert, super socially awkward person, rather shy. And if I don't know anybody in the room, I'm the guy standing in the corner, wallflower looking at the floor.

[00:42:16] I don't know what I'm doing at all. I'm not making this stuff up. Okay, so the idea of being in the spotlight for a long period of my life would be the worst thing it can do to me. I remember in grade school, if I had to raise my hand because I thought I had to answer, I like debated with myself, should I raise the hand?

[00:42:32] Because if I do, the teacher's going to call me, people are going to hear my voice, they're going to see me, I'd rather just remain invisible. So that's my default. And I've had to work through that.

[00:42:42] Jodie Cook: There are other moments where someone else has said, Hey, you should do this, or someone else has said.

[00:42:49] Someone else has identified a talent that you have, that you clearly have, and you've reluctantly gone along with it.

[00:42:55] Yes, there have been many moments. So when I was in high school, I was in a commercial [00:43:00] art class, that's what it was called back then. And my table partner, I think there were four of us, she said to me, Chris, you're really good at this.

[00:43:08] You should do graphic design or commercial art. And I said, thank you. But in my mind, like commercial art equals poor for the rest of your life. You So I, I felt like she was just pandering to me. Like, why would I do that? Are you trying to salvatage my future success? I accepted the compliment, but I just didn't pursue it at all.

[00:43:28] So there are many moments in my life when people are like, you're good at this. You should do this. And I just resisted. Eventually I do do it, but I resisted initially.

[00:43:36] Jodie Cook: Could be the start. The start of this could be not intention, not adversity, but the start could be someone else discovers something about you that you don't believe at first, but then you think, ah, yeah, maybe, maybe that could be true, maybe I could.

[00:43:50] I think you're onto something.

[00:43:52] Jodie Cook: I suspect something else that might come into yours somewhere. So we're just testing a theory. It's something about giving. [00:44:00] So you sent a tweet out the other day that I feel like spoke to my soul. And it was about how, it was about how people always say to you like, Oh, why do you give so much?

[00:44:11] Aren't you scared about people taking advantage? And you said, well, actually I'd rather that if they were going to take advantage, I find out really, really quickly because then I see their true colors. And I, oh, I love that so much, but the whole giving game, the give before you ask, the, the whole like, I guess it kind of leads into sell without being salesy or it's lead with the thing your clients care about the most and reciprocity and paying it forward.

[00:44:35] Like what's, does that come up in your successes as well? Like were you on the stage as a public speaker because of some kind of giving system that had happened? in that situation as well.

[00:44:46] Oh man, this episode's getting deep, everybody. Hold on, let me uh, let me check it. I'm wearing, am I wearing deodorant?

[00:44:52] Okay, we're fine. Okay, we're fine. I remember in college between getting into art center and [00:45:00] going, I went to community college at De Anza and I took a philosophy class. It was a beautiful class. And the weird thing is my younger brother by one year was in the same class with me. And we got into this whole debate.

[00:45:10] The instructor, who's a beautiful instructor, like the way he taught the class was so amazing. And he asked us this question, if you could give up your life to end human suffering, would you? And how many of you would do that? And in a room of 30 or 40 people, I think I was one of two people who raised my hand.

[00:45:27] And my brother looked at me like, are you trying to get on your high horse to get credit with this room? I said, you know what? I love my life. I think my life's important, but it's not enough to love it more than all of it, entire like human suffering. And I was curious, like why everybody's not raising their hands.

[00:45:44] And it kind of bothered me. And we had this whole discussion afterwards because he was questioning my motives as to if it was true or it was virtual signaling. Of course I didn't know what that word was back then. And I said to him, you know what? My world view is such that I would rather be hurt [00:46:00] than to hurt people.

[00:46:01] And it's just kind of formed and manifested itself in many different ways. It was formed early on in my life. I see a lot of people hurting people. In small and big ways, like the bullies picking on people, and I was more often the time on the other end of the bully stick, you know, the wrong end of that.

[00:46:18] And I just thought, like, why are we so vicious to each other? What is it about you that hurts so much that you have to hurt other people so that you feel a little bit better about yourself? And I definitely didn't want to become that kind of person. So I try to lead with that and there's a much deeper explanation about whole reason why like I will leave money on the table I will give you all of what you think you want from me and depending on how you resolve that or handle it I know what category of box to put you in And what people don't realize is I have a lot more to give.

[00:46:47] So if you played the long con, you'll really win. But people are not that smart. They play the short con, which I can see.

[00:46:53] Jodie Cook: I love this. There's so much in there. So I feel like firstly, maybe the reason that your success [00:47:00] has come true is just karma. Because you've been giving for so long that then something has happened where something's being repaid.

[00:47:08] And of course, you're not keeping score. You're just doing that because it's in your nature. And then something's being repaid. And that has meant that it's given you some kind of. They break opportunity thing that's come up. Don't know if there's anything in there

[00:47:19] in terms of karma

[00:47:20] Jodie Cook: or maybe the things that you count as being your biggest successes, have any of them come as a direct result or as a indirect result of someone repaying a favor of something that you've done in the past.

[00:47:33] Okay, okay, okay, I see what you're saying now. All right, I have another weird theory that I haven't tweeted about yet, so I'm going to share it with you and see what you think. You notice how you look at people and you can, just by looking at their face, feel like they're up to no good or they're very kind or trustworthy?

[00:47:48] And I started thinking about that and I was talking to my wife about it, like, is that just prejudice? Is that just us saying, in my life, people who look like this I can trust and people who look like that are kind of shady? And [00:48:00] in, in some cases, I think it is, right? Like if a police officer pulls you up because you match a certain profile, they're just matching you up with old experience and not looking at you as an individual.

[00:48:09] However, put that aside. When I look at you or I look at somebody else, I'm like, I think they're really kind. And the people who look a little shady in my life, even though some of them are my friends, I'm like, you're kind of shady. You're trying to shortcut everything. You're trying to take maximum advantage of the situation.

[00:48:26] And I know who you are, I know your character, but does it reflect in her face? And I think that. I have this weird thing where, I don't know why, People want to help me. People are very kind to me. The reason why I met my business coach who changed my life was because this gentleman, his name is Hugh, Hugh invited me to lunch, and he was telling me about his personal success.

[00:48:52] And then I just had the guts to ask him, who is this person that you're working with and can I work with them too? Now, in that [00:49:00] moment, I think it was just like a split second, but it felt like a long time. I could see him processing, do I want to give away my secret to you? And he made a quick calculation, and he's like, yes, here it is, here's the phone number.

[00:49:11] And I think if my energy, whatever my facial features were, such that I feel like I'm a little snake or a weasel, I don't think he would have told me.

[00:49:21] Jodie Cook: What you're talking about? This isn't all of it, but it's a bit of it. It's actually a scientific thing, and it's called microexpressions. Have you heard of those before?

[00:49:30] I have, microexpressions, yes.

[00:49:32] Jodie Cook: When they flash up on people's faces, and it's for such a tiny split second, and you probably wouldn't see it consciously, but your subconscious catches it. And that's probably what it is when you think, oh, they're shady. It's because they've got these little micro expressions that are just shady, not very nice expressions.

[00:49:50] There's a, I think there's a TED talk on it. And there's, there's something like, there's a lady who got accused of, of a crime of killing someone. And then there's [00:50:00] another lady who got accused of killing someone. And the person who actually did it, they filmed her answering questions about how she's saying she didn't do it.

[00:50:09] And they slowed it down to the point where you could at some point see this smirk on her face. And it was like, that's it. She did it. But you wouldn't see that in a normal situation. You wouldn't process it. But you are processing it when your subconscious is going through and deciding whether to work with someone.

[00:50:25] Maybe you're really tuned into micro expressions.

[00:50:28] I think I am. And when you say subconscious, I can see them. So even if you say something and there's a tiny little pause, or you stretch out the word. Sure. Just that little bit, I know there's something behind it. Not always that I know exactly, but I know it's not an emphatic yes, let's go forward.

[00:50:47] So then I know there's something that's holding you back and I want to ask you about that. I think that comes from 20 plus years of being on conference calls with advertising agencies. Pre Zoom and when you're having a dialogue with [00:51:00] them like and you're pitching ideas and you're listening for these most subtle cues of whether they're into it, if it's a fake excitement or they can't wait to get off the phone.

[00:51:10] And those little nuances, I think if you're going to be in business for any period of time, you either learn it or you lose and you're out of business. So I translate that out into the real world too because I look at people And, luckily for me, I don't have too many voices in my head, and I'm kind of trying my best to be present, I actually do see them.

[00:51:29] You know, like, okay, for example, if you smile a lot, you're going to have lines here, like I have lines, and you might have lines here. So before we even talk, I always feel like you kind of must like life. You must like to laugh. Or something like that. And we can see that versus people who maybe wear the mouth here and they have deeper jowls because they're always like frowning or like showing displeasure.

[00:51:51] And so before they even speak, they have these dark things or deep lines here. So we start to see certain patterns, I think.

[00:51:58] Jodie Cook: So we've got [00:52:00] someone else identifies something that you're not sure about, but they say, Hey, Chris, why aren't you doing this? You should really should be. There's something in there about reciprocity somewhere that might be over the long game.

[00:52:11] that you are kind of getting something paid back to you almost that gives you an opportunity or something. There's something in there about truly seeing people. Maybe that means that you know which opportunities to go for because you know who's genuine and you know who's the real deal and you know how something's going to work.

[00:52:28] So the other theories that I have around what might be in your success system, something to do with learning, never feeling like you have all the answers. I think I've heard you use the phrase, I have so much more to learn or like learn before you scale and the being hungry for knowledge side of things.

[00:52:45] That's definitely in there. My therapist told me you're a constant improver. People need to understand that about you. And my friend who is much more into astrology says a Capricorn is a goat. A goat scales a mountain. They can do impossible things. They stand on [00:53:00] these ledges like how do they get up there?

[00:53:01] This is ridiculous. And they're very sure footed. And then they just little kind of hopping, hopping until they get to the top of the mountain which protects them from the mountain lions. But then they can graze on whatever trees or shrubs that are up there. And I am a constant approver. Here's what I think now you're giving me some insight here.

[00:53:18] I think step one for my success formula, I have no idea what the other steps are, but step one is I realized this in my life. That good things are on the opposite side of discomfort. So whenever somebody says something to me, I have a physiological reaction to it, like, Ah, I don't want to do that. There's a moment that switches over, like, Wait a minute, chill out for a second.

[00:53:38] What is this idea? And why are you reacting this way? And are you sure you don't want to do this? I don't always say yes right away, but it starts to eat away at me. So when Keir says, You should do public speaking, I'm like, I wanted to vomit. And then I let the words sit in there. And what he's done in the past is always wanted the best for me.

[00:53:58] So he wouldn't send me to [00:54:00] a death squad. He would want me to do something because he sees something in me that I have yet to recognize. So that discomfort is the thing that I need to get over. And then there's a lot of other steps, but I know that's the beginning to really good things.

[00:54:12] Jodie Cook: That's a really nice place to start because then you could replicate that going forward.

[00:54:15] Every time, every time someone you trust suggests something that makes you feel uncomfortable, it's gonna, something really good's about to happen.

[00:54:23] Yes, so I think Ryan Holiday wrote about this and the obstacle is the way, I'm not sure if he said it exactly like this, but it's the sentiment of obstacles are opportunities in disguise.

[00:54:32] And that's part of like my mantra and everybody wants things that they don't have, but nobody's willing to do what they haven't done. They just think doing more of the same will get them a radically different result. And I know in my life that doesn't seem to be true.

[00:54:44] Jodie Cook: I think you've got the whole learn everything thing and you've got the Capricorn, you've got the goat, you've got the wanting to learn, wanting to do the stuff.

[00:54:53] You've also got the do the work side of things like the real being a doer and how [00:55:00] I not how to and getting serious. So it's not because I think some people get debilitated by the learning. They do all the learning. They do all the research. They never feel like they're ready because they never feel like they know enough.

[00:55:11] But you've got this way of very quickly turning it into action and not feeling like you have all the answers hold you back from from taking action.

[00:55:19] Okay. I'm building my map out here. So step one is to realize that obstacles are opportunities. Step two would be to try before you decide. Just try it. No matter how dumb it sounds, just try it and accept failure as part of the process.

[00:55:33] Step three is to lean into the discomfort, knowing that all good things come from a little bit of pain. Step four is do your deep dive, to research, to read, to watch and study, to be the super crazy analytical person. Become a dolphin, go deep, and then just keep repeating it and make incremental improvement and just love the journey.

[00:55:52] Jodie Cook: I think there's two more tiny things that might come into it. So one, I think. Is you using your introvert [00:56:00] superpowers? Because we talked last time on the RFSA a year ago, we talked about the difference between knocking on doors and building your own house. and creating your own art and getting people to come to you and that kind of side.

[00:56:13] So there's, I feel like it might be linked to being an introvert because it's almost like, no, I don't want to go talk to people. I just want to do my art. I just want to create this thing. So is there, there's probably something in that there.

[00:56:22] Yes. Where do we put that in there?

[00:56:25] Jodie Cook: I don't know. I think it's somewhere to do with leaning into your introvert superpowers and figuring out how you do the work yourself rather than needing to rely on other people.

[00:56:35] Which is a nice place to come from. And then I think abundance comes into this quite a lot as well. Because of the stuff you teach around, don't lower your prices, there's an infinite amount of money in the world, like, love yourself for who you are today, play the long game, all these kind of quotes, it's all about abundance.

[00:56:52] So it's like the framing of everything is also around abundance. The fact that there is not an end to the [00:57:00] success that you can create from this as well, which probably comes into every success that you've ever had.

[00:57:05] Yes. I really believe that there's an unlimited amount of money you can make is as infinite renewable resource money is.

[00:57:12] The question is, you got to find what makes your heart happy and sing with joy. And when you can figure that out, then you can actually achieve it while not feeling like you're, you're like living someone else's life.

[00:57:23] Jodie Cook: So then I wonder if that sense of abundance then means that you find your way forward because you're not settling for opportunities below what you think you're capable of, because you're willing to hold out for the better ones.

[00:57:39] And because you're willing to hold out for the better ones, you never have to. You don't lower your prices. You don't take on clients you don't want to work with. You don't do things you don't want to do because you're like, Nope, there's a better opportunity around the corner, which then fuels even higher successes from there.

[00:57:53] It's actually really fun. I'm going to turn this into a post later today. This is fantastic.

[00:57:57] Jodie Cook: So what I would do is, we're testing a [00:58:00] theory. This is just a theory on what your success system might be. So I'd map it out and then I would look at other things other than the public speaking that you've done and see if it fits.

[00:58:09] move them around a bit and add in other things. And then I would come up with the way of applying it going forward. If you were like, okay, imagine if I'm going to do this whole new thing, which I guess is actually harder for yours, because it relies on someone else saying, Hey, you should really do this thing.

[00:58:24] So it's slightly different, but play it forward and try and replicate it with that exact system. Join the Olympic team for something. Hey, Chris, you should really be an Olympic weightlifter. Why are you wasting your talent?

[00:58:41] Are you tricking me into wanting to work out more? Maybe.

[00:58:46] Ellie: Yeah.

[00:58:46] Okay. You know what? There's a step in here that I know I need to address somehow where I have to enroll others who believe what I believe. Because part of my system is I don't want to do this alone. I realized I have certain ideas and I'm [00:59:00] not great at doing all the follow through.

[00:59:02] And that's where you or somebody else might be really good with customer service as one of your skills. That is not one of my skills. I'm already moving on to the next idea. And so somebody has to go through and make sure we're delivering on the promises. And the, like, I'll do the framework, but I'm not going to do the workbook.

[00:59:17] And I won't write the article or the PR release. It's just that's I'm bored by that kind of stuff. So I need to enroll others who believe what I believe.

[00:59:23] Jodie Cook: Assemble the dream team as part of it.

[00:59:26] Okay. So this is a hypothesis and we have to go and test this against our own life to see if it holds true, make tweaks to it and adjust things.

[00:59:33] And if it turns out it's a one off, it doesn't work, then start another hypothesis. Right?

[00:59:39] Jodie Cook: For sure. Yeah. And anyone listening to this, if you've come up with yours, if you think you've come up with yours, all you have to do is test it. Like don't put any pressure on it being the right one. Cause it will just, it'll come out as you keep going.

[00:59:50] Well, they don't have the benefit of working with somebody like you poking and prodding knowing enough. about the person. How do they do this by themselves?

[00:59:59] Jodie Cook: Yeah, [01:00:00] journaling, go on the treadmill and don't listen to any music, stare into the abyss from a high floor, and hopefully you'll get there. You'll find enough stillness, quieten all the noise, and it'll surface.

[01:00:15] Okay, I like that actually. I know, I know you're saying a bunch of things there, but if you're stuck and you can't work with Jodie or somebody like her, And you're really stuck and you really want to figure out your success system. How much does it cost to like rent a room in a high rise building close to where you live?

[01:00:32] And then your commitment is you're going to go to the gym and you'd only select that hotel if they have a gym. A lot of them are on the top floors, I think. And then find a treadmill and commit to it. Just commit there and just like, I'm going to be on this treadmill. I'm going to get some clarity, empty my mind and see what the universe has to offer me in terms of some guidance.

[01:00:53] And just try it.

[01:00:54] Jodie Cook: And then message us and tell us what you came up with. Tell us your success system, your five or six [01:01:00] point success system. Get it down, committed to the internet and then see what happens going forward.

[01:01:06] I think a lot of creative folks hate this idea of a system or a recipe because they just think that really boxes them into like a formulaic thing and they think of themselves as much more creative.

[01:01:18] And I'll, I'll say this to folks, because I've had this debate with my friends who were creative before in that we love movies. multi billion dollar industry. It's one of the most formulaic industries in the world. We are almost quite literally watching the same movie over and over again, sometimes in remakes, but movies that you only think are related, have the exact same story structure, the exact same character conflict, crisis of conscience, and goes forward.

[01:01:46] There is this hilarious comedian who talks about Tom Cruise. I'm going to say a little bit of it. And if you know what I'm talking about, you will know exactly what I'm doing here. So he goes, okay, so Tom Cruise. [01:02:00] He's in the same movie in every single movie, so he's in Top Gun, he has certain natural gifts and advantages, and then he has a crisis of conscience.

[01:02:09] Then he meets a woman, and then he has some clarity, and then he becomes the hero. And he goes, okay, so, in Cocktail, he has some talent, has a crisis of conscience, meets a woman who restores his confidence, and then becomes the hero. And he just goes on every single movie, and then the audience is laughing so hard.

[01:02:28] And then he has one twist at the end, because he does this four or five times, and he does this one twist, and it's, it's so good. You have to look it up. Yeah,

[01:02:36] Jodie Cook: everyone has. There's something like, there's only like seven stories. Yes. Seven stories at all. And yeah, you, it's just your story. It doesn't, I don't think it necessarily means that you can't be, you can't be an artist.

[01:02:48] You can't be creative, but a lot of creativity does follow patterns. Like nature follows patterns like it all does. And it's just, I don't think finding your own pattern means you're any less of a creative person. It just means that you [01:03:00] can recognize your own strengths and apply them going forward. I think it would make it easier to be a successful creator, but there are plenty of starving artists out there, but there's no reason to, to be one of them.

[01:03:10] Yeah. It's the difference between being a one hit wonder and the Beatles or the Rolling Stone or Elton John. They know how to make hit after hit. More contemporary update to that would be like, I think 21 Pilots or Post Malone or Taylor Swift. They just know how to crank out the hits because they figured it out.

[01:03:30] They become a

[01:03:30] Jodie Cook: machine, a success machine.

[01:03:32] I think so.

[01:03:33] Jodie Cook: In a nice, in a really, really good way. I think if being 21 pilots or Taylor Swift or someone of that level is your version of success, then yeah, definitely find a system to get you there.

[01:03:43] It's pretty clear in every industry that you look at, regardless of the market or whatever niche that they're in, the people at the very top clearly are able to repeat it.

[01:03:51] I've wondered this myself a lot. Mark Cuban, like is Mark Cuban a success machine? And it turns out he quite is. At first, when he started his company, I think it's called [01:04:00] broad net. He was just the right place, right time created videos and then sold that company, but his ability to turn that into more and more success is.

[01:04:08] true sign of his talent and his gift in being able to repeat the success over and over again.

[01:04:13] Jodie Cook: I wonder if he knows. I wonder if we should just get Mark Cuban on the show and say, Hey, let's find out your success system. And I wonder if he knows the six steps that come into it every single time. Cause it may be, it's not written down as a formula, but he would know like.

[01:04:25] Oh, I know when I meet a founder who's got this set of traits that this is something good and I know when it's this kind of opportunity that fits these different parameters, that's going to work. I know if it's in this industry or if I'm introduced to them by this person, there'll be patterns there at the same time.

[01:04:39] Yes,

[01:04:40] I think so. And I think you should start a whole series of interviews where you, you say, I'm here to identify your success system and just work it out just kind of like the way we did it. And when you're done, you're done and it's awesome. And you could just do this over and over again. You'll be like the viral sensation.

[01:04:58] Jodie Cook: Yeah, that'd be fun. Well, [01:05:00] let me know if anyone wants me to do that because that would be totally fun.

[01:05:03] I think you just have to go to the top. I have a theory in Mark Cuban. The two companies that I'm aware of with the first broadcast company and then Mavericks and selling the Mavericks, right? I think he looks for underserved or undervalued ideas.

[01:05:18] So the Mavericks, before he bought them, weren't doing great. And slowly but surely, he built that into this giant, successful machine. And it was remarkable what he was able to do. So he has an eye for seeing either underserved or undervalued things. So he moved early on this broadcast internet thing, like videos on the internet, sold that company.

[01:05:36] That company didn't go anywhere. So he also knew that the opportunity was gone. And so he needed to get out. And then he used his money wisely to create yet another successful enterprise. So I think that's got to be one of his step one.

[01:05:48] Jodie Cook: Like Moneyball, but for business opportunities. Yeah, I think I had something slightly similar at my agency when I was hiring people.

[01:05:57] I had a sense that I [01:06:00] kept hiring really good people and I was like, what is it? What is the thing that ties all these people together? And it was that they'd all worked in hospitality before and they all had these things that I just looked for in people that was that they were good at. multitasking.

[01:06:13] They could hold a lot of information in their head. They were very personable. They could problem solve. They didn't think something was a big deal because they already dealt with a situation where the pizzas dropped on the floor and they've got a million tables to serve. And there's something about that kind of person that really worked out.

[01:06:28] So it felt like a bit of a money ball situation as well, but they probably, they probably come up in, there's patterns in every, every single thing.

[01:06:36] Yeah, our mutual friend, Daniel Priestley was talking about this. He goes, I think I figured out this success formula for myself. He said something like build a business that SAS, that you can get, I can't remember the exact numbers, 200 happy customers paying month over month.

[01:06:52] And it will take a couple of years to do that. Cause you have to work out a lot of things to keep them on there. And once you do that, give a portion of your company to people who can [01:07:00] drive a lot of customers to you and then grow that to a hundred million dollars and sell it and everybody's happy. He's got it down.

[01:07:10] But it's really interesting how he thinks about systems and then is able to say like, yes, this would work. I think his whole mind is geared towards that as a serial entrepreneur to see different systems.

[01:07:21] Jodie Cook: And potentially has a bit of the Jeff Bezos thing in there as well. The thing about write a press release, send it out, see how it goes down.

[01:07:28] And if it doesn't go down, don't build it. It's the same thing around the oversubscribe thing. It's like, hey, we're starting this thing. Do you want to join the waitlist? And if enough people join the waitlist, then you know that a certain proportion will buy. But if, if the waitlist doesn't take off, then don't build the actual thing.

[01:07:43] Easy, easy, success after success, yeah.

[01:07:46] Well, I know how our last episode ended, so I will say to you again, I will see you at the top.

[01:07:53] Jodie Cook: I will see you at the top.

[01:07:54] Right? Now that I know what my success system might be, I'm gonna have to say, well, [01:08:00] where did I deviate from this? That's the beautiful part of it.

[01:08:02] Where did I screw up if I'm not where I'm supposed to be? And that's a great thing. It's like, Oh, I use too much egg in the batter or I didn't let it rest for long enough and it wasn't the right temperature. That's right. So let's repeat, go back to where you messed up, fix that part, and then you can move forward.

[01:08:17] And I think I'm in that state right now.

[01:08:19] Jodie Cook: Nice. See you at the top.

[01:08:21] See you at the top. It was a real pleasure talking to you again, Jodi.

[01:08:24] Jodie Cook: Yeah, so good. Thank you so much for having me back.

[01:08:27] And I want to ask you this question before I get out of here. How's the coaching, the Coach AI thing going?

[01:08:32] Jodie Cook: Yeah, really good.

[01:08:33] Yeah, I think since we last spoke, we've quadrupled. Coaches and consultants are using our platform. Being very happy. The customer service is excellent and yeah, it's good. We, we've entered the future. We found our place. AI clone marketing was just not a topic before, but we're teaching people exactly how to do it and getting some really cool results.

[01:08:55] So yeah, it's really good.

[01:08:58] And I want to mention this real quickly. If you [01:09:00] haven't done so, please read the article that Jodi Penn featuring yours truly, there's two articles on Forbes. We'll put the link in the description. So please check that out. And we'll also link everything about your programs and your social accounts in the show notes.

[01:09:14] So check that out as well, everybody.

[01:09:16] Jodie Cook: Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much. I'm Jodie Cook and you're listening to The Future.

[01:09:27] Ellie: Thanks for joining us. If you haven't already, subscribe to our show on your favorite podcasting app and get new insightful episodes from us every week. The Future podcast is hosted by Chris Do and produced and edited by Rich Cardona Media. Thank you to Adam Sanborn for our intro music. If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor by reviewing and rating our show on Apple Podcasts.

[01:09:52] It will help us grow the show and make future episodes. If you'd like to support the show and invest [01:10:00] in yourself while you're at it, visit the future. com and you'll find video courses, digital products, and a bunch of helpful resources about design and the creative business. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time.

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