Stewart Schuster:

Hey, everyone. Stewart here. This week's episode has a little bit of, let's just say, colorful language in it. Not much, but I just wanted to let you know in case you're thinking about listening in a place where it might be otherwise inappropriate to listen out loud. Whether it's work, or the little ones are around, or whatever the situation may be, don't be afraid to pause right here, throw on those headphones and enjoy. Otherwise, let's get into it.

Leila Hormozi:

You have to be really serious about what you want in life. And I think after we built Gym Launch and sold those businesses and we're like, it was a monetary success, in my opinion, like a large monetary success. But it didn't feel like an impact success to me. On an industry, many would say yes. But I was like, I want to have a bigger impact than that. And I think that's what the content allows us to do while also benefiting us from a business standpoint.

Chris Do:

Hey. Everybody, what's up? I'm super excited to be talking to my guests here today. I'm in Las Vegas just for this, so this is super important to me. I'm talking to Leila Hormozi. But in case you don't know who she is, I'm going to have her introduce herself. Leila, can you introduce yourself to people and tell them a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Leila Hormozi:

Gosh, I always get so awkward with these things. I'm like, Ugh, what do I say? No, I'm the CEO of Acquisition.com currently. I grew up in Michigan. Moved to California when I was about 20. And then pursued a career in fitness. I got into fitness and quickly realized that I needed to learn marketing and sales. And so, I pursued learning those things. And then randomly on Bumble, met my now husband who I started a business with called Gym Launch. And we built and sold that business along with two others, Prestige Labs and Alan. And then after we built and sold those businesses, started Acquisition.com. Now, those are all the things that I've done and business related.

I think underneath all of that, who I am more so is weird, I'd say. A little weird, quirky. I love people. And my favorite part and why I love business so much is just because I love creating environment where people really love to work. I love helping other people build that in their businesses. And I like creating a win-win for the customers, for the employees, for the business. And so, that's always been what I've really liked doing. I think ever since I was young, I've just been passionate about helping people. And I think what a lot of us aspire to, which I also do, is just being that person for my younger self that I never had.

Chris Do:

There's this thing that I'm sure a lot of people who are watching or listening are going to say to themselves, "I was in fitness, but I'm not running a multimillion-dollar company." help me connect those dots here. So, you're into fitness, you moved to LA, and I think I read that you became the top salesperson. How are those two skill sets related? And how does one become so good at sales when that isn't necessarily the training or the background that you have?

Leila Hormozi:

Yeah. I mean, honestly, dude, I think I learned by necessity because I got out to... It was Orange County, and I went and I had a degree in exercise science. And so, I'm like, oh, I think I can get a job as a personal trainer anywhere. Which was true. I applied at six gyms. I got offered at all six. But I had a couple thousand dollars in my bank account. My rent was a thousand dollars a month. And I had gas, food, all that. And so, I was like, shit, I need to make money. And I had had jobs before, but never commission based, anything like that. And the thing about the job that you could make the money fastest at, was that you had to sell. And I had always been so averse to anything like sales. I just thought, oh, salespeople are gross.

And I very quickly understood that every business sells. It just sells in different ways. And if I wanted to actually do what I set out to do, which was, the main thing for me was I really just really wanted to help people lose weight. I actually had been about a 100 pounds overweight, and I had lost it all, and then started doing bikini competitions. And so, I want to help other people do the same. And I realized that just because I was good at something didn't mean that people were just going to throw themselves at me and want what I had to offer. And so, I moved out there, got that job. And I remember there were 20 of us that they hired at the same time. And I want to say the end of month one, there were three of us left. And it was because it was hard.

There's a lot of preconceived notions about what sales is for one, and I think that deters people from even trying to get good at it. And then the second piece to it is that I think it requires a high capacity to receive rejection. And I think that I just have the capacity for that, and I developed that earlier in life. And so, that allowed me to be okay with failing so much so quick, and then also saying, you know what? This doesn't mean I'm a failure, but it means that I need to work and I need to get better at what I'm doing. I need to acquire skills. And so, I just use that as the opportunity of I don't want to have to move back home because I couldn't make money and I couldn't afford my rent. I want to prove to myself that I can do this. I don't need anybody. I don't need my parents. I don't need another person to depend on. I can make my own money.

And so, I remember reading probably four different books on sales, and the common thread that I felt after reading all of them was, I should be really good at sales, because I actually believe in what I want them to buy. And I'm trying to learn sales not to make money. I mean, this is a consequence of it, but because I actually want to help people lose weight and I actually want their lives to change. And it's like this is just something that has to occur in the in-between for me to get there. And so, I think it was realizing that and realizing that behind all of the tactics of sales is, if you really realize, if you pull back the curtain, everyone's trying to manufacture conviction. And I had conviction, so why do I need to use any tactics?

And so, instead, what I realized, I just shared my story with everybody. I was like, this is why I came out here. This is why I literally moved as a 21-year-old female alone to California, packed up my car, almost no money because this is what I want to do for people. And realized that in sharing that with people, that was what got people to be like, "I'm on board." And they were really bought in. They were more likely to be successful. They were like, "That's really cool that you actually did that yourself." And so, I think for a lot of people, I mean obviously you can make a lot of money in sales. But I got really, "Good at sales," because it was something that I wanted to sell. I really believed in it and I knew that I was going to be able to help people. I had the utmost conviction in it. And I think the same goes for today. It's like, I'm sure I'm good at sales. But it's because I would never sell something that was shitty.

Chris Do:

Okay, I want to pull on that thread a little bit. So, you have a pretty radical transformation story yourself. This is what you studied. So, you believe in the product because transformed your life, so your passion carries through in the way that you communicate. And I'm thinking about all our audience who are these introverts, these creative types. Maybe they work in branding marketing. I think they believe what they're doing is good too, but they don't seem to be able to transfer that same passion. And a friend of mine, a professor from art center, he said, sales is, "I have a passion and I just want to share that passion with you." So if you can peer into the weird awkward world of creatives and designers, what are they missing here that they can't become a Leila and be able to just kick ass like that? What do you think it is?

Leila Hormozi:

You know what's interesting, is that you say that really resonates with me because growing up, I identified as being an introvert. I felt like when I was in rooms of people I wanted to leave or could be there for a little bit amount of time and then wanted to go home. And over time, I realized that I think many people can be both introverts and extroverts. It depends on the context and the circumstance. Because I'm sure that there's people that claim that they're introverts, but in certain rooms, they would like to stay and they like being around a lot of people depending on who those people are. And so, as I've gotten older, I think I've tried to relinquish myself from any label. Even my own teen. They'll call themselves creatives and they know that I'm like, "Am I not a creative? because I make content." You know what I mean?

But I don't ever want to put myself in that box. And so, I would say the first thing is I think many of us could label ourselves as something within a context of a situation. But I don't think that we are never equal to a feeling or equal to a label. I am not creative. You can never be that. You can never be an emotion either. You can't be anxiety. You can't be anything. You can only be who you are. And so, I think that by taking on those labels of like, "Well, I'm an introvert, so this is going to be tough for me. How am I going to sell? Well, I'm a creative, so how am I..." You are you. You can be a creative and sell. You can be an introvert and sell. You can be an introvert, and be passionate, and loud at times.

And I just found that to serve me so much more because what happens when you label yourself is that it's almost the placebo effect, which is you take on this label, and you might have a few attributes that within certain situations you label yourself as this thing, but then it generalizes to the rest of your life. And you start to show up as that label within all facets of life. And then you actually start to take on all the rest of the attributes of that label as well. There's a lot of studies on this.

And so, I would just say that within the question you asked itself, that's where people are ultimately starting from, I would say it's just not true. Even the statement I am something like, no, you are not. You cannot be. It's not physically possible. And so, I think starting from a place of when I'm in these certain situations, I tend to act in a way that exhibits these behaviors. And I think just even the language in itself changes how you see yourself. For me, when I am in large rooms with lots of people who are very loud, I tend to want to leave. When I am in a large room full of people who are having quality conversations and maybe sitting and having coffee, I don't feel the need to get out and leave.

And so, I think that the first place is just starting with how we speak of those situations. Because for me, I had a lot of, I would say really unhelpful assumptions about myself going into that situation that made it hard at first to realize that it's not or it's and. It's not that I have to be an introvert or an extrovert, I can be both. It's not that I have to sell or not sell, I can do both. It's not that I have to be good at one thing or the other, I can do both. And I don't know, I'm just more of a fan of and. It's like I can be a creative and sell my shit.

Chris Do:

So, it sounds to me like what you're talking about is a mindset issue or a challenge that once you reframe how you define yourself, then you can open yourself up to more opportunities. Is that...

Leila Hormozi:

Yeah, I mean because-

Chris Do:

Okay. I like that.

Leila Hormozi:

I think the best thing I ever did for myself was say that I'm never going to label myself. I'm never going to subscribe to the... Even now people are like, "Well, how does it feel to be a female?" Shut the fuck. I don't care. I don't subscribe to any labels of anything because I might want to change tomorrow because it serves me, and it serves my life and my happiness. And so, that's worked for me. It's not what's works for everybody, but I don't see as many benefits to labels as I do cons. I'll put it that way.

Chris Do:

Okay. So, the question I have for you then is, I think you said you were in your early twenties, you moved to LA from Michigan,. Where did this mindset develop? Where did this philosophy come from? Because a lot of people have labels that were put on them from childhood that they can't seem to escape. It doesn't really matter how old you are, they just can't escape this box that they put themselves in or someone's put them in. I hate to ask it this way, but people always assume, were you always this way? Were you born this way? Or did you have a moment in your life when, "Hey, I don't want that anymore. I'm going to change today?"

Leila Hormozi:

Yeah. I think a defining moment for me was my parents divorced when I was like, I don't know, I was eight or nine. And my mother fell into alcohol and drugs. And I lived with her. And she developed this habit and it snowballed. It's at first she's drinking, she's going out, she's getting drunk. Then it's like she doesn't come home until 3:00, 4:00 AM then all of a sudden she's gone for a day, two days, three days, four days. And I was young and I had been raised mostly by my mother, and so I didn't want to tell my father. Because it almost felt like I didn't even know him well enough. Now he has a girlfriend who has kids that they're in the house. And I was like, I don't want to go there. And so, I lived with my mom while she was going through whatever she was going through.

And I remember there was a night. And at this point, I'll give you some context, I was a very, very shy kid. Made fun of, would sit alone at lunch, overweight. I had buck teeth, not cute. And I just remember intense anxiety going to school every day because I was constantly made fun of. I didn't feel like I fit in. Physical appearance, all those things. And I remember my mother didn't come home for a couple days and I was calling her. And I probably called her 18 times. And I was just worried she was dead. I was just like, I just wanted to pick up the phone so she can just say that she's alive. I don't even care if you don't come home. It's like, "Let me know that you're alive, so I don't need to call the police."

And I remember just all of a sudden this voice in my head and it was like, "Stop calling." And then I realized, I was like, "There's no point. You're not going to change what's happening here." And then the one thought that came through my head, and I just remember crystal clear, I was sitting in the guest bedroom with this cord phone. I was staring out the window. It was like pitch black 3:00 AM. And I was like, you've got to just make it worth it. And I just remember thinking to myself, it's been so shitty for the last few years. Every day, insane anxiety, feeling all sorts of feelings. It's not fun when you're a kid and you're alone. And I just made this promise myself. I was like, I want to be a better woman for my future kids and the future generation than this woman has been to me. And I thought about in that moment, everything that she represented to me. Victim, depended on others, weak, succumbing to vices. And I was like, I just want to be the opposite.

And in that moment, and I was so young, but I remember so clearly, I was like, my motivation changed. I was like, you know what? I'm going to start... As a young kid, I think at that point, because they got divorced, I was eight or nine. I think by this point I was probably 11 or 12. I had this new vision of what I wanted to be and how I wanted to show up. And that was how I looked at everything. And I was like, I can't be this shy, scared, fragile girl if I wanted that to be my life. And I think about that a lot because even the other day my dad was saying, he was like, "I was talking to your sister about your mom and I just have these insane feelings of guilt that you ever went through, what you went through and that I didn't know."

And I was like, honestly, I'm so grateful for it because I probably would've still been that type of person. And I think that was probably the most pivotal moment I can remember. Why I had that thought, I have no idea. But I just remember so clearly having it and I think that it's stuck with me since then. I mean, it's been like 20 years, but it served me.

Chris Do:

You're 12 years old, your mom doesn't come home for days. It's hard for me to process what a young teenager... You're not even a teenager at that point. The emotions you must be feeling at that point, I don't know if it's okay, but I'm going to ask you, did you cry? Did you feel abandoned? Lonely? "Why has this happened? Why is this my life?" Because I can't even imagine. I have two boys that when we leave them alone, they're 17, it's like, "Oh my God, are you guys going to be all right? Do you even know how to put yourself together in the morning? And here you are, you go to school, your mom's not around." Help me understand that. It's like how does that impact you as a child?

Leila Hormozi:

I think people are so much more resourceful than you think. I had friends and I would go stay at their houses. And I would go get food from their houses and bring it home. I would entertain myself with playing with kids in the neighborhood. I think in the beginning, it was incredibly hard when it first started happening and it was out of the norm. It was unexpected. That was the hardest because once it became a pattern, you just expect it to happen and it becomes your life. When it wasn't and it was unexpected, I think that was when it was the hardest for me. And the way I can only describe it is when you have that feeling of anxiety before you step on stage, I just had that all the time. Because I felt like I was living with somebody who was very unpredictable. And so, I was never sure when the next shoe was going to drop.

And then once I saw over a long enough time what her new patterns were, then it was just how am I going to take care of myself? And I mean, that is where I think so much of actually my leadership has come from, is that I learned to dress myself, take care of myself, take care of the house. She ended up bringing home 13 animals and then not taking care of them. And so, I took care of all the animals, did the dishes, made sure we didn't have rotten food in the house. Started taking care of things, noticing we had past due bills, like forging your signature, doing all that stuff as a young kid. Because it's funny, we treat a lot of kids. They're not capable of all these things. But so many of the things that I did were things that some adults can't even do. But by necessity, I just started doing them. And I think that you just adapt.

I mean, after that, it was really interesting because then when I had to go and back and live with my dad after years later and the police found out, it was a whole thing, that was really hard to have basically been taking care of yourself and then go into a household where people start to try and take care of you. That was incredibly uncomfortable. But I think a lot of kids are more capable than their parents think they are. And I don't really know. I've read a lot of books on nature nurture. I have no idea what goes into it. I don't know why, but I think I made the best of it at the end. I think at the same time, there's a lot of stuff I dealt with later because it causes some adverse behaviors, like just being angry. But I figured that out later on. So, that was fine.

Chris Do:

I have this theory and I am really into comic books, and graphic novels, and fiction. And I think the difference that defines a hero and a villain is how they deal with adversity and trauma. So, in this case, somebody else could have shut down, could have gone down their own dark tunnel, and repeated the same behaviors versus emerged, more reliant, empowered, and made promises to her young self that, "I'm never going to be this kind of person. I'm going to be the antithesis to this." I'm curious, what is your relationship with your mom today?

Leila Hormozi:

We don't speak. I've tried for a long time. I didn't speak to her for a few years. And it's really interesting because a lot of people, they're like, "Oh, do you want to talk?" I'm totally fine talking about it, because I think a lot of people carry a lot of guilt for not speaking to their parents. But if every time you see your parent, there's an incredibly punishing event and they make your life worse. Would I let somebody else treat me that way? If for the last 15 years that I've tried to have a relationship with her, it has been a series of punishing events, whether it be emotionally punishing, physically punishing, mentally punishing. And so, I just decided, I was like, just because you were great for a period of time in my life, it doesn't work for me anymore. And just because I'm your daughter doesn't mean I need to stay in a relationship out of obligation, because I have higher standards for how my friends treat me and how strangers treat me. I wouldn't even let a stranger treat me that way.

And I'm not talking about being rude or something like that. It goes far beyond that. So, I don't have a relationship. I probably would take spurts of a couple years, try, a couple years, try. And the last time was, I want to say four and a half years ago. And then I let her know that I was no longer going to attempt to try because I'd tried so many times and I'd given so many chances, and I said, I've just realized by this point it's been 12 years and nothing's changing. And she's tried to reach out. I mean it people think that I've got some deep... I have nothing. I'm just like, what's the benefit? I have so many amazing people in my life who bring me so much joy. I have so much in my life that I love doing, so many people that are so great, and you just make everything worse. So, why would I want a relationship with you? So I just choose not to.

Chris Do:

My wife was raised by a mom who's too young to have her mom hat on. So, she's gone through a lot of her life raising herself and her sisters, and has similar things. It's a little bit different. But there's this thing, they have a great relationship. She's fine. But I think there's something deep inside of her that is very sensitive to the feeling of not being loved. So, whenever I show anything where I'm not pleased with something, it's way more than what that is because it's like a sign that I don't love her. And of course I do love her. Do you have all the love that you need in your life?

Leila Hormozi:

I think I have a lot of love. Yeah. I wouldn't say that my whole life I have, but I feel like right now is probably the happiest I've ever been. I think it comes down to a really simple sentence that I've just learned is, life is so overcomplicated. It's like, do stuff you like with people you like. And do more of that. And so, I just try to follow that. It's like even when it comes to work, because I think that if you like what you're doing, you like the people you're doing it with, there's nothing more enjoyable for me. And so, I do feel that way. And I think I'm lucky because I have friends that have become like family and then a really strong father. My father and I became super close through that experience because after everything became exposed to him and I moved in with him, I don't know if I ever would've gotten that close to him.

And still we're very close. We talk every day. He now works in my company. I don't know if that would've happened if everything with my mom hadn't happened. My dad is one of the most genuinely amazing people that I know, that I truly have ever met in my life. And it's not because he's my dad, it's just because of who he is. And so, I feel really lucky. I think when I was young, I had a lot of feelings of envy towards people who had a strong mother. And that was tough for me. Watching people go shopping with their mom and watching them... It'd be movie night and the mom comes down, she's talking with us about guys and all that. And it's like stuff like that when you're a teenager and you're growing up and becoming a woman, and not having a woman to talk to, that was hard. But as I've gotten older, I think I've been resourceful enough to find people that have been able to supplement in that way.

And I think that I miss the love that the mother I had before she turned to alcohol was, but I don't miss what I got after. And I'll be honest, dude, I don't spend any time thinking about it because I'm like, it might be true that I'm missing a mother's love, but is it useful to think about? Does it benefit my life? Does it make me feel better or worse? And if it doesn't make me feel better and there's nothing I can do about it, I don't know. I'm so blessed compared... I grew up here in America because my dad came from Iran. It's like I genuinely am like there's just so much that could be so worse. I have nothing to complain about.

Chris Do:

Yeah. It's really wild for me to hear you say this and describe your thought process because this is how I think. And I describe it to people and they're like, "You alien. Nobody thinks like that." I'm like, no, I know somebody else who thinks just like that. Here's the example I would give to people. I don't know for a fact that we have free will. I don't. We could just all be cause and effect machines that we just don't understand.

Leila Hormozi:

I actually agree with you a 100%.

Chris Do:

Right?

Leila Hormozi:

Yeah.

Chris Do:

But I choose to believe that we have free will because it's a better idea than to say, "I am not responsible for my actions than my thoughts." And so, when something bad happens to us, we get to choose what is an empowering idea? What's going to move us forward? What are we going to learn from this experience? And you sound like you got that part worked out because you're saying, "I might not be me today had it not been for those tough times." So you've gone past the point of blaming and being angry to the point of... I think it sounds like gratitude that made you who you are. I think, right? Or no?

Leila Hormozi:

Well, I think what it is that I've stuck around long enough and enough time has passed. I've seen the benefit. And I've been able to correlate skills I have now with what I learned then. And I think when you're in the messy middle of it, you're just feeling shitty and you don't feel grateful because you haven't yet recognized the benefit it brings your life. And some things that happen, you don't see the benefit for five or 10 years. And I feel like that's how it was with that. I don't think I saw the benefit for about 10 years. But then when I saw it, it was so clear to me and I was like, this is why all of that is going to benefit me. That developed skills that I'm now using here and it's giving me a huge advantage for my age. And I think my gratitude is only amplified over time probably because of that. It's like I've just recognized the benefit of it.

Chris Do:

Now you said something, and I'd like to revisit this part of it. When you're a young person, you're like, "That's not the mom I'm going to be. I'm fix myself so I don't repeat these patterns." And it's an incredibly powerful idea because I think what people do is they just wind up repeating the same patterns over and over generation to generation. So, I have this question asked you because people ask me this. Okay, so in this environment, the Leila that we know today is here. So, if you were to have kids, would you want them to be like, "Hey, go take care of yourself, figure out your life, because I'm not going to take..." Because that's what made you? Or do you say, "Let me take care of you so that you don't have to deal with that?" And then how does that shape their thinking? I'm curious in that thought experiment what you would do.

Leila Hormozi:

I think there's a difference between having kids and parenting. And when I think of parenting, I think it's very similar to... There's a lot of similarities between parenting and mentoring. Mentoring younger people. And I think that I would look at it like, I'm this person's mentor. And I've thought about this a lot. I don't let my emotions dictate my actions enough for me to not do what I know is ultimately right by a person. I mean, I have so much care for the people on my team, but I will not baby them because I don't see how that benefits them. Even if I want, even if I'm like, they're crying and I'm like, is that going to benefit them the longterm? And if it's not going to, I'm do it because I feel like that's selfish. Because it only makes me feel better, not them.

And so, I view kids the same way, which is I would do what's best for them in the short and long term. And I think that that's a good frame for parenting. It's like how do I act in a way that benefits my children both in the short term and long term? Because a lot of the times it's one or the other. And I think the best is when you can find it that it serves both. To be honest, I would just never hand my children anything because again, I just don't see how it would benefit them. I think that that doesn't mean I wouldn't teach them and give them advantage by educating them, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to give it to them. "I'll teach you how to build this. I'm not going to give it to you."

Chris Do:

There's something that Alex wrote and he said on stage, now I'd like to get your opinion on, he said something like, successful people have these three traits. I hope I'm getting this right. They have something like a God complex. They think they can fix the world to make it better. They have some form of crippling insecurity and they're willing to delay gratification. But the thing that I want to focus on is this insecurity thing. Alex is a super yolked guy, very successful. I'm like, what do you have to be insecure about? And then I saw on your Instagram, you're like, "I have insecurity." You're a super successful, fit, beautiful person everybody's going to be watching. It's like, what can she possibly be insecure about? And what is it and where is it coming from? And how are you dealing with it?

Leila Hormozi:

I mean, I think insecurity comes from, if more of my life than not, I was a certain way, then it will take longer to acclimate to the new conditions. So, it's like if for a long time I was overweight, then it's going to take me a long time to feel confident even if I've lost the weight. Because the circumstance can change. But my behaviors of acting like a fat person do not. So, even to this day, it's so funny. I was talking to one of our good friends, Dr. Cashy ,was here in town, and I was saying something and I was like, "I just want to lose four more pounds so I can look really fit in this." And he was like, "You do, but you wear baggy clothes." And I was like, "Oh." And he was like, "Yeah, you don't dress like you're fit, but you are fit." And I was like, that's so funny. I still don't to this day. I still feel weird wearing tight clothes because for so long I was so fat.

And so, I think it's almost like the circumstance changes, but we don't adapt our behaviors to match. And I think that's why there's just a lot of things that have changed very quickly for me in my life and happened on a fast time horizon. And it's almost like you don't catch up to it. I think that's the first thing. And I think the second thing is, I'm always comparing myself and looking at people who are so far ahead of me that I do feel like I have a lot of deficits and skills to work on. Now, let me put it this way, I'm not beating myself up over it. That's old. Old Leila would do that. Maybe I was like 21, 22. But I don't beat myself up over that. I'm just like, oh man, I've got a lot to learn.

But I think the insecurity, it's probably more now. What's most relevant to me has been since I started making content. Because running a business, I felt very insecure in the beginning. The first few years I was like, "Oh my God, I'm 23. These people probably think I'm a fucking idiot. Who's this 23-year-old bitch running a business?" You know what I mean? Seriously. I mean, I'm like, "It's not what business you have doing this. You don't have any experience. And now I got to work for you." And so, that's what I would play out that they're thinking when I hired them. And I was like, I have no actions that support that, but I'm like...

And I will say, it drove me to try so hard and work my fucking ass off to make sure that I would be really good at what I did. And I don't think that I felt, I don't think I recognized, I don't think that my confidence matched my competence until probably five years in. And I think with social media, and posting, and making videos, and all that, even now you were telling me before you're like, we're going to talk about brand. I was like, oh. Because I'm like, oh my gosh, I just started two and a half years ago at the most, the very beginning. It was two and a half years ago. I'm, I feel like I'm barely scratching the surface and I feel like I'm awful at all of it.

And so, I think that a lot of times it just takes time for you to recontextualize where you're at. And especially if things happen quickly, our business grew quickly. Some people might say, my brand grew generally quickly compared to others. And so, it's like you don't catch up necessarily. And I think it's like you're still human. I think just because I act a certain way, I don't let insecurity drive my behavior, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But I hope that that can be aspirational for people rather than... Because I used to always look at people and think, oh my God, I've got to get rid of all my insecurities until I can build a business, until I can make content, I can do all these things. And then I realized that that never fucking happened. And I did it all while having all those feelings at the same time. And that was relieving to me. It still remains relieving because I'm like, oh, I can make room for all these emotions and I can still get this shit done.

Stuart Schuster:

Time for a quick break, but we'll be right back. Welcome back to our conversation.

Chris Do:

I've not achieved anywhere near the level of success that you have, but when people ask me what's the secret to success? I pause and I'll tell them this answer and they're not expecting it. And I'll say, choose a good partner in your life because they'll lift you or they'll drag you down. They'll make you feel guilty for working or they'll be right there next to you working with you. And so, I have to say, and I've done a little research in your story. And I think there's something quite remarkable about your relationship with Alex, because I think I cannot imagine two people who are more suited for each other than the two of you. It's like you're the female version of him and he's the male version of you. It's like you're mirrors. You love to work. It's so weird to say, "Hey, what are you doing? Let's work." I'm like, I don't know any woman who would do that. And you're the one again.

It's like the anomaly in the matrix. And you guys find each other, and you support each other, and you lift each other. The question I have for you is this, Alex tells a story and it's pretty well documented. He's like, "I'm a loser. I've lost everything I've made. You quit your job. You've come and live with me." My question for you is, why were you so loyal to him? What did you see in this person that didn't even give him himself credit? And I think in the book that I read, it's like if you left him there, I think he would've been a broken human for the rest of time because there was not a lot going for him. And I think everybody, if they're so blessed in his life, to have one person who could look him fricking eye and say, "I believe in you before you believe in yourself." I'm just curious what you saw because there's a lady or a man out there and you have a partner, let's learn to identify these things because we can't abandon these people too early.

Leila Hormozi:

Yeah. When I first met Alex, and this is just to give context, I remember the fourth day having met him and he had to go out of town for something. And I was at work and he was like, "Hey, can you pick up all the cash from all of my gyms and deposit it into the bank for me?" And I remember I called him and I was like, "What the fuck are you doing? You just met me on Bumble and you asked me to pick up all your money?" But he was like, "No, you're loyal." And I was like, "How do you know?" He was like, "I can just tell." He's like, you would never do that. And I was like, he's fucking right. You know what I mean? I was like, I mean, he's right. I would never steal a penny from anybody. That's just not who I am.

And so, I say that to demonstrate I am loyal to a fault. And I had been loyal many times previously in my life just to people who maybe didn't reciprocate it back to me. And when I met Alex, I think that there's two drivers of that, which is one, I think I value loyalty from others. And so, I want to exhibit it to others first. I also, I think I genuinely have always strived to be as good of a person as my father is. And he's the type of person who will stand by someone no matter what. You know what I mean? And so, I think I'm really grateful to have him as a role model. But when I met Alex, I think bringing that into the relationship. And then when I met him, I saw a man who was so incredibly strong, the most persistent person I've ever met. His work ethic was, and still is higher than anybody's I've ever seen.

I mean, his ability to actually have high output for 14 hours a day, just sitting there, not needing reinforcement. It's crazy to me. But I saw that he was in a place where I think there was two things that I felt, and he might not agree with some of this because it has to do with other people. But I felt like he didn't have the right people surrounding him to let his strengths shine. I felt like he had some really strong... He had very special gifts, I would say, that he had cultivated in himself, and he didn't have the right people around him to showcase those gifts. That's the first thing.

And the second thing is that what a lot of people also don't know is that Alex is incredibly giving. He will give more than the other person always. And that's how he is in all relationships. And I felt like that was the place he was in, which is like he continued to be giving to people and giving too much. And also I didn't feel like there was anything that he was doing that was wrong. I just felt like he didn't have the right people around him. And I remember thinking to myself and telling him, I was like, "I feel like we can make such a great team. I really feel like I see exactly what you're fantastic at. And I think I have a complimentary skillset. And I think if we keep cultivating our skills, we could be unstoppable together." And I'd always had the vision of wanting somebody who amplified me as a person rather than suppressed me as a person. And he was the first man I met that actually voiced that he wanted that.

I remember even just the way he said it, he was like, "If I want somebody to cook and clean for me, I'll hire a maid." And I was like, "I get it." But I had had a lot of people that had been in relationships with who wanted me to be more quiet, to stand down, to not be so opinionated. And I'm like, I am loud and I'm weird, and I work really fucking hard and I'm trying to be successful. You know what I mean? So it just felt like they wanted me to be less than myself. And I understand that that's not for everybody. I have no judgment upon that either. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's just not what works for me.

And so, in that moment, honestly, the thought that came to mind was I just remember the first thought, I was like, "Shut the fuck up. I'm not going to leave. There's no way after all of this that we've been through, after this last year. We're going to turn the story around." And that was the biggest thing I had in my mind. I remember after that talk, we had, we went to the Cheesecake Factory, I think. And we were in the parking lot and it was dark, and the stars really pretty. And I remember walking, I was like, "Do you see what this could become?" I was like, "we can be so great together. And I just know it. I can feel it. It just makes so much sense. And we have so much shit working against us right now, the moment it's not, I just know that this can be something so great." And I saw glimpses of it at times.

It's funny because it's like, I don't know what that is because I'd never met anyone like him, so it wouldn't be pattern recognition. But I'd also never met anyone that I was so compatible with. And so, I think that was also part of it. I'd never met someone who we had so many shared interests, so much shared history, family history, heritage. I mean, everything was just weird. And we met randomly. And so, it was the feeling of this is not how the story ends. I'm not that person who walks away when it's hard. I fucking get in there and buckle down. I'm like, I'm in this too, dude. I just made all my friends quit their job to come work for us. We are both risking shit right now.

And I also was just like, I'm never going to be that partner that brings my man further down when he's already down. I want to bring him up and remind him how great he is. And I think that that's been something that has been incredibly useful for us as a couple, has been a lot of times in a relationship and one is down, the other gets brought down by that person. And then you're both in the [inaudible 00:38:39]. And we've always been like, if one of us is down, the other one's selling them on why you're so good and bringing them back up. And I think it's been really helpful for us over the years.

Chris Do:

That's really beautiful. I feel like if we're listening very carefully right now, there are 10,000 people listening on the internet crying because they don't have somebody like this in their life. I mean, if I understand the story correctly, please correct me if I'm wrong here, I think Alex was feeling super down on himself. He's like, "I blew it again. All the money's gone. We're in a deep place." And he's like, "We're breaking up." Did he say that? Or did I read that...

Leila Hormozi:

He said, "I'm a sinking ship. You should leave me."

Chris Do:

Yeah, "You got to leave me." And I don't know a lot of people who would be like, "Yeah, no, I'm going to stick to the ship." When you watch Titanic like, "Gentlemen, it's a pleasure playing with you." No, I'm looking for the boat. Because what are we doing? Are we going down with a ship? I don't know many people who would say, "No, no, no, no. Hold on. You're in a low spot. I've seen you at your high. Let's get back up there and let's double down again."

Leila Hormozi:

The biggest accomplishments in life and that people hear of and know of, it's not like one person does it alone. Even if you look at the most successful companies, it's three founders. And I think it's because of that. It's because you need people around you when shit is not working that are going to be like, "I've got you." And I want that from a partner. And so, I'm going to show it to them. I don't don't know.

Chris Do:

Yeah. What do you guys have is so rare, and I wish everybody has an opportunity to find this, where the other person only wants to see you in your best light, to never to feel intimidated by your success, by your beauty, or by your fortune, whatever it is that they're just, please be more of you because more of you is what I love. And then for the other person to feel the exact same way, it's always, something's off. "I'm jealous. I'm envious. I feel guilty." And you guys do this. And it's when you see that and you see the sense of both you and how much you've achieved in such a short period of time, it makes perfect sense. And it's a beautiful thing.

Leila Hormozi:

Yeah. And I think from a behavior standpoint, the more autonomous the person, the more freedom they need to have in a relationship, whether it be in a job, or in a partnership, or friendship. It's almost like I think a lot of people wish for a partner that they can control, but also that has all the attractive features of somebody who's autonomous. And you can't have both, because when people feel like they can control their partner, because maybe they're a little less something than them, it gives a feeling of security. But I've just never wanted that. And I've always wanted someone to feel like when they're with me, they can be completely themselves and I can be completely myself. And that we are together, not because we feel like we have to be, but because my life is better with you. It would be great on its own. But with you in it, I like it more.

Chris Do:

Okay. Business stuff, if you don't mind.

Leila Hormozi:

Yeah.

Chris Do:

And branding. I heard a staggering figure when he said this on stage, and the hilarious thing is, it's way crazier than this number now. I think he said that you guys spent like $20,000 a month on your media content branding stuff. And then I told somebody else like, "Chris, you monkey, they don't spend that. They spend this." What is the current number that you both spend individually on media and content?

Leila Hormozi:

I think in total it fluctuates anywhere between $80,000 and $130,000 a month.

Chris Do:

Each?

Leila Hormozi:

No, in total.

Chris Do:

In total. Okay.

Leila Hormozi:

And then that's without travel and all that stuff. Yeah.

Chris Do:

Okay. So, let's say for round numbers, $50,000 each.

Leila Hormozi:

Sure.

Chris Do:

Okay. That's you guys doing math. I think that's $600,000 a year, that lay list. Is that right? $600,000? Yeah, $600,000 a year, which is more than what most people make in a year. And you guys are spending so much money, you're shrewd business people, what is it that you're getting by investing so much? And I think you guys keep saying, we're going to double quadruple down on this because it's working. What is it that you're getting? Can you tell us the tangibles and the intangibles?

Leila Hormozi:

Yeah. I mean, when we first started making content, there's, I think two reasons, which was one, we just wish we had documented sooner what we were doing in Gym Launch. And we felt like it would've been really helpful for people. Right when we were selling Gym Launch, I was like, man, I saw Alex started making more general content for people that didn't have gyms. Because people always ask me this question, they always say, what woman have you looked up to in business? And I always blank because I don't have one. It's always been men. And so, I've always been like, damn, you can't be that for other people unless they know who the fuck you are. And I know there's a lot of 19, 20-year-old girls out there who looking for a woman to look up to, and I make it my mission to be worthy of somebody's admiration.

But you can't do that unless you put content out there. So, I think that's half of it. The other half is, I see no world in which anything I want to build in the future wouldn't benefit from people from having a brand personally. And if I can learn how to build a brand personally, I think I can also learn how to build a business brand to build many other brands. Because I think a lot of people look at the brand and they say, "Wow, it's so valuable, their personal brand." But the formula for building the brand is actually more valuable in my opinion. And so, it was something I felt was worthy of understanding because even in business prior, it's like I understood paid ads, outbound, email marketing, affiliate marketing. It's like referral marketing. I understand all of that and how to do it, but I've never understood brand.

And so, we said when we sold our companies, we were like, whatever we do next, I think we should start a brand. And it required us to make a decision that we would also give up a lot of privacy, which I think we both really liked at that point. It was a very different life we had. We lived in a big house in a suburbian neighborhood. Didn't make content, didn't leave our house much, didn't do much social stuff. And our life is completely different now. And so, I think how it's changed my life has been, I think, a net positive because I think that it's made it, for me specifically, not Alex, my ability to build a team is so much easier. Because now when people go in the interview process, they can go watch all my content. I get people that have shared values with me much earlier than before.

Whereas before, I would have to vet people out much more on the interview side. Now they vet themselves out by watching my content. That's the first piece. The second piece is that Alex was the face of Gym Launch. And so, people always thought I was his secretary. And so, people would come because they wanted to work for Alex and then be like, "Oh, Leila runs everything? I report to her?" And I was like, oh my God. And so, it's been really helpful in that there's, I think, a more balanced culture and team because there's some people who were attracted to Alex and some that were attracted to Leila. And I think that makes a much stronger team because we balance each other out, therefore, the team balances each other out.

I would say from a business standpoint, deals come to us rather than us going to go get deals. And if we do want to pursue a deal, like approach them, they answer because they know our brand or one of our names. Same with talent. Maybe the person isn't coming to me that I'm looking for, it's a very specific skillset. If I reach out to them, they answer. And so, it's made a lot of things much easier to do when it comes to business. It's made a lot of, I would say, being on social media more positive because you can see the impact you have on people. And getting to run into people and them telling you how much you've changed their life, that's really cool. I would say on the other side, I have a very large lack of privacy now. And I don't feel like I can leave my house without seeing somebody who's seen me on the internet who snaps a picture. Especially if I'm with Alex because he wears a costume.

We probably get stopped six to eight times every time we go on a walk. So, I think it's made me, I would say in many ways, become a better person because you realize that you can't afford to be in a bad mood. One, we now have an in-person headquarters. I can't afford to be a bad mood in front of my team. Poor Jason, probably sees it more than anybody. But me and Alex, I might be in a bad mood or him in a bad mood when we're out just at the mall, or at the grocery store, on a walk, and then you run into somebody and they just want to like... This is their one time they meet you and you're pissed the fuck off about something. I have just learned to just completely turn it off. Just forget whatever's happening with me and just be like, they deserve better.

And so, I think it's had a lot of benefits for me. I think sometimes I miss being able to walk out of my house and not be looking like hit as fuck and someone take a picture. Because sometimes that happens and I'm like, "Fuck, you want a picture of me in my pajamas? I was walking to CVS." But I think it's overshadowed by the benefit. And I think more than anything, it's like getting to see people avoid the mistakes that I made while building a business, while navigating my way through my early life. That's the coolest part. I mean, our businesses could work in different ways. We wouldn't have to have a brand, but I think it's cool to see the impact. And I think the only reason somebody should even pursue it is if they want to have an impact and they have to mean it.

Because again, I know a lot of people who will have a brand and then they start getting the notoriety, but then they start losing the privacy and losing the autonomy, and they're like, "This sucks. I hate this." And I can see how somebody might feel that way some days. That's why I think you have to be really serious about what you want in life. And I think after we built Gym Launch, and sold those businesses and we're like, it was a monetary success, in my opinion. A large monetary success, but it didn't feel like an impact success to me. On an industry, many would say yes. But I was like, I want to have a bigger impact than that. And I think that's what the content allows us to do, while also benefiting us from a business standpoint.

Chris Do:

I don't think I'm alone in saying this. I think it'd be cool for you to be out there with no makeup, with curls on, and in your sweaty pants, and a stain on the shirt. I think that'd be super cool. That'd be a Leila I love as well. I'm just saying. So, if you wanted to go do the CVS run, I think it's pretty cool. And somebody's like, "Look, she's so real. Look at her."

Leila Hormozi:

To be fair, I do. I just wear sunglasses. And then they're like, "Hey." And I'm like, "You recognize me?" They're like, "Yeah, I can tell it's you."

Chris Do:

Let's talk about the costume a little bit.

Leila Hormozi:

Oh, yeah.

Chris Do:

Again, okay. Everything is in alignment except for the way the two of you see style and fashion. I'll say this to Alex when he's here. It's like, bro, I don't get it. I just totally do not get it. It's the strangest vibe. And then here you are all put together top to bottom. It's a total style mismatch. How did that work in your world? I'm just curious.

Leila Hormozi:

Alex really likes to be functional. And by the way, when I say costume, I call it his costume because he literally wears the same thing every day. And if he doesn't wear that, people don't recognize him nearly as much. But if he wears that, he's always recognized. So, I'm like, it's a costume almost now. He's always been just function. When he wants something to be this certain way... I mean, we probably have in the house currently 55 pairs of shoes that he's tried. We've probably thrown away 150, 200 pairs from the last year because he's like, "I got to get the perfect shoe." Same with pants and shorts. "I got to get the perfect short. I want them to be versatile. I want to be able to go to a wedding, go to a pool, get into a restaurant, work out, go to sleep." And I'm like, "That's gross. How about you take a shower?"

Chris Do:

Stay in your half of the bed.

Leila Hormozi:

Yeah. Oh, 100%. And he's just always prioritized function. I would assume it's probably also because Alex went to private schools and he had to wear uniforms. And so, I would also imagine it's like, it's probably... I mean, if you do that your whole life, where you wear the same thing, you never have to think about an outfit, you probably see that it's beneficial. And so, I've thought about that. I'm like, I wonder if that's where it comes from too because then you never have to worry about your wearing.

For me, I have always, and I still don't feel like I've nailed down anything when it comes to style, but I've just found what you wear as... It's just fun for me almost. So, it's not that I'm always dressed up because I'm not. Sometimes I come to the office, I'm just in workout clothes and whatever, or sweatpants. But I like dressing up and I think part of it is also that in the last few years, I finally realized that I'm not 220 pounds and I also am like, I'm proud of staying in shape and looking nice. And, I, for so long, wanted to wear things. It looked awful on me.

And so, I think there's a sense of freedom in choosing clothing, and seeing something that's cute, and then putting it on. It's still looking cute rather than looking like you're busting out a bag. And so, I think that's part of why I dressing a certain way. There's nothing that I'm deeply attached to. I mean, I might go a week with not dressing up at all. I might go a week with dressing up every day. I just do what I feel like. And I think it's just fun for me. Literally, I think it's just turned into a little bit of a hobby and fun. It's just understanding, also just probably understanding the world of fashion, getting to talk to fashion designers, getting to speak to people who design clothing, come out with some of the top people in the industry. Getting to understand the intent behind it. It's much more interesting. Yeah.

Chris Do:

Do you like to go shopping?

Leila Hormozi:

I don't like to go shopping. I like people to bring clothing to my home, and then I try it on and then keep what I like.

Chris Do:

Okay. Most people I know is like, "I need a second opinion." My wife say, "Hey, is Alex in that?" Or he is like, "No." He's like, "Stay out of this."

Leila Hormozi:

I wear a lot of clothing that I would say is clothing for women more than clothing for men. Women would be like, "That's so cute." And Alex would be like, "No." Alex, any day would just pick... If you've heard of a bandage dress, it's just skin tight with your popping out, he'd probably pick that every time. And I'm like, I can't wear that to work. That's not my style necessarily.

Chris Do:

You call that a bandage outfit?

Leila Hormozi:

It's called a bandage dress. It's like a band-aid, it's skin tight.

Chris Do:

Never heard of it before. Skin type. It's a thing.

Leila Hormozi:

I also am like, I'm married, and happily married, and I run a company. I have lots of people who work for me. I would never want to dress in a way that made anyone feel uncomfortable. So, I think there's a difference between fashionable and sexual. And I don't think there's anything wrong with women who want to dress that way. I'm like, go for it. I don't think it serves me for the goals I have.

Stewart Schuster:

Thanks for joining us. If you haven't already, subscribe to our show on your favorite podcasting app and get a new insightful episode from us every week. The Futur Podcast is hosted by Krista and produced by me, Stewart Schuster. Thank you to Anthony Barrow for editing and mixing this episode, and thank you to Adam Sanborn for our intro music. If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor by reviewing and rating our show on Apple Podcasts. It will help us grow the show and make future episodes that much better. Have a question for Chris or me, head over to the Futur.com/heychris, and ask away. We read every submission and we just might answer yours in a later episode. If you'd like to support the show and invest in yourself while you're at it, visit the futur.com. You'll find video courses, digital products, and a bunch of helpful resources about design and creative business. Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time.