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Unmesh Dinda

In this episode of Deep Dive, Chris talks with Unmesh Dinda, but you might know him better by his YouTube moniker, PiXimperfect. He teaches people everything there is to know about Adobe Photoshop and with over 2 million subscribers, he seems to be doing something right.

Deep Dive: Teaching on YouTube
Deep Dive: Teaching on YouTube

Deep Dive: Teaching on YouTube

Ep
94
Aug
10
With
Unmesh Dinda
Or Listen On:

How to get everything you want in life.

In this episode of Deep Dive, Chris talks with Unmesh Dinda, but you might know him better by his YouTube moniker, PiXimperfect. He teaches people everything there is to know about Adobe Photoshop, and with over 2 million subscribers, he seems to be doing something right.

But as you will soon hear, Unmesh does not consider himself a YouTuber. He is a teacher, first and foremost. Through this fun and transparent conversation he will explain why helping people will get you everything that you want in life.

Unmesh wasn’t interested in playing outside with friends as a kid. At the age of 8, he was already playing around with Photoshop and learning how to use the program. Over time, Unmesh realized his passion for teaching and his gift of explaining concepts in a simpler way. Fusing the two would eventually lead him to create his YouTube channel, PiXimperfect, where he gives detailed Photoshop tutorials.

But the success of his channel didn’t happen overnight. It took a lot of trial and error for Unmesh to grow his following and for his channel to receive the recognition it holds today. He had to figure out things like marketing, determining his audience, and what to publish on his own.

One of the things you’ll notice about Unmesh is that he’s extremely humble. (You’ll hear it at the start of this episode where he notes that his 2 million subscribers is “just a number.”)

He attributes a lot of his success to the connections he’s made along the way. He doesn’t try to hide the fact that he’s reached out to people for guidance, mentorship, help, or advice. In fact, he encourages his audience to do the same; to lean on the support of others because it will lift you up in some way.

For more on Unmesh’s story and the true power of connections, listen to the full episode.

This episode is sponsored by Framer - framer.com/thefutur

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Episode Transcript

Greg:
Hey, it's Greg. Welcome back to another deep dive episode of The Futur podcast. This conversation comes from a live stream we hosted with Unmesh Dinda. He runs a YouTube channel under the moniker PiXimperfect. He teaches people everything there is to know about the Adobe Photoshop. With over 2 million subscribers, he seems to be doing something right. But as you will soon hear, he doesn't consider himself a YouTuber. He's a teacher, first and foremost. Through this fun and transparent conversation, he'll explain why helping people will get you everything that you want in life. I loved listening Unmesh and his thinking and I think you will too. So please enjoy our conversation with Unmesh Dinda.

Chris:
Hey everybody, what's up? Today I've invited Unmesh Dinda to come back on our channel. The reason why is because I want to catch up with him. Lots have been going on in the world. You may not know him as Unmesh, but you may know him much better as PiXimperfect. Currently, and congratulations on this, last time I checked, you're over 2-

Unmesh:
Oh thank you so much.

Chris:
... million subscribers. That is crazy.

Unmesh:
Well, that's just a number. It's just love from the audience. That's what I appreciate, man.

Chris:
Yeah. I'm going to share a couple of personal stories and I'm going to try to see if I can get some of your history, your mindset in terms of how you got here because here's the story I hear a lot in the world. When I say you guys can take control of your destiny, you can work beyond where you live and you are not limited by the geography in which you're currently residing in. So, I love to point to you as one of my examples. I refer to you as one of the heroes of the resistance. People who are rewriting the rules of what it means to be a creative human being in the 21st century, who are able to live a meaningful purpose driven life while making the kind of money that you need to make to live.
You are living right now in Mumbai and you have this wonderful channel. I hear this message on your channel all the time, this will always be free. So, this is pretty interesting. I've asked you, will you author a course with this? Because I think you're such a master at using Photoshop. I think I'm good, but then I'll watch your videos, I'm not good. You know the little-

Unmesh:
Oh, come on.

Chris:
... nooks and crannies, you know some.

Unmesh:
You do so many things, man.

Chris:
Seriously. There're filters and techniques that you use that I didn't even know that button existed, so-

Unmesh:
I didn't even know either, trust me. I didn't even know either. I got to find that for the video and then I forget it after making the video. So-

Chris:
Oh, wow.

Unmesh:
... [crosstalk 00:02:32].

Chris:
You're so humble about this, and you're so granted. My wife has a secret crush on you, but I'll keep an eye on her a little bit. Okay, let's talk about this.

Unmesh:
Tell her I love her.

Chris:
Will you stop that? Stop it because she's like, "He's so mature. He's so well-spoken, he's so composed. He's so grounded." It's like, "It's so attractive." I'm like, "Hey, what about me? I'm not chopped liver, am I? What's going on?" Okay, let's talk a little bit about that. Since appearing on the show, I guess it was in November 2019 at Adobe MAX where we live streamed. What has been the feedback for you and how has this impacted your life at all?

Unmesh:
You got me a lot of street cred, I got to give you that.

Chris:
Really?

Unmesh:
So much street cred. You wouldn't believe, my classmates from the college that I graduated and so many other places messaged me like, you were with Chris, the Chris Do? Oh my gosh. They were also, wanted to talk to me. They just-

Chris:
Oh, wow.

Unmesh:
... went crazy from there. You know what we talked about before doing this live.

Chris:
Yes.

Unmesh:
Anyway, yeah. It was amazing. Thank you so much.

Chris:
You can say it if you want. I'm very happy for you. Here's the other side of it, which is this. I have messages like, oh my God, our two worlds have collided, amazing, PiXimperfect and The Futur. Their like, Unmesh is god. It's like, wow, okay. So your fans showed up for you too. It's been very good, I think for both of us. All right.

Unmesh:
I'd like to call them friends because they are the one who make us who we are.

Chris:
Absolutely. Okay. I know you're still a relatively young guy, but I look at how much you've learned, what you've been able to do in relatively short period of time. I want to dive deeper into your story a little bit if we can today. Is that okay?

Unmesh:
Absolutely.

Chris:
Okay. Now, I-

Unmesh:
Who doesn't like to talk about himself?

Chris:
... I'm going to disclose a few things and if it turns out you don't want to, hey, we'll edit it out of the video, but here we go. I-

Unmesh:
It's okay.

Chris:
... know this from last time. You are living and working at home. Are you a one person operation, do you write, produce, edit and do all the content yourself?

Unmesh:
Absolutely, 100%.

Chris:
Have you thought about maybe getting somebody else to edit the videos for you?

Unmesh:
I have thought about it to be honest, but the way I edit it, it's like ... I just love the editing process. To be honest, I just love adding music, adding different tracks of music. If you watch some of the videos, I don't just simply add, just copy and paste the music, there are different tracks to it. There's the drum track, there's the bass track, there's the guitar track. Let's say when I'm speaking something, the drum track just goes silent, and I love doing those intricacies myself. That's why I don't want to let anyone else do it because I love doing it. That's the one reason.

Chris:
Okay. That's incredible. Before I continue on this thread of thinking, I looked back at some of your older videos because I'm like, who is this guy, where did he come from? I watched your music video.

Unmesh:
Oh my God, embarrassing it was.

Chris:
I watched your music video. So, you have some kind of musical background, right?

Unmesh:
No. I have a musical background right now, but-

Chris:
I see it.

Unmesh:
No, I just-

Chris:
I saw you, it was a cover of Speed, right? Speeding?

Unmesh:
Speeding, Speeding.

Chris:
Speeding.

Unmesh:
I didn't even know what I said in that video. Anyway, I tried a lot. A lot of people say ... Like you saw my YouTube channel and you saw that I've been doing it for three and a half years, but it's not actually three and a half years. It's about 2008, 2009, 2012, and those times, I don't exactly remember the year, I started with putting up piano covers, I started with music videos. Then I tried to do different. I started a radio. I started teaching other things. I started with teaching HTML and then Photoshop just worked. It's just that. A lot of people don't see the things that I did before on other channels, they just look at PiXimperfect. Wow, in two or three years, he got to 2 million subscribers and so many viewers. It's not just that, I've been just trying to do different things for a long time.

Chris:
Yeah. That's what a lot of people don't realize that they find out about you after you've built an audience or made some friends, as you say, but you try many things. It's pretty cool actually to watch you in that music video. Is there an opportunity for us later in the show for you to sing?

Unmesh:
Yeah, it's pretty funny, say it. Come on, say it.

Chris:
No, I thought it was actually really cool because it confirmed a belief of mine, which is you don't find your audience oftentimes on your first shot, you try different things. You say like, I like this, or I'm inspired by that and you make a bunch of different things, like the piano cover you're talking about, or the HTML tutorials that you ... I don't think you no longer do because as I'm scanning your channel now, it's almost all Photoshop stuff, right?

Unmesh:
It's everything Photoshop.

Chris:
Is there a chance that you can sing for us karaoke style later today?

Unmesh:
Not with the current voice I have.

Chris:
Okay. I'm going to ask, okay. All right. So here. Let's get back to it. I have even lost my own thought. There's a fire engine blaring off in the background here, we'll edit this part out. I don't know. I was just having a good time just watching the old video, the ones that you shared, but it takes a lot of trial and error. While we're-

Unmesh:
Absolutely.

Chris:
... while we're off air, before we had all our friends join us here, you were talking about, there are things that you like about making these videos and doing what you do and some things that you don't like. Can you tell us some of the things that you don't like doing?

Unmesh:
It changes from time to time. What I love is being in front of the camera and teach stuff. With YouTube, there's this thing that you always have to find something new and you know that. You have been on YouTube for long. You always have to just research and find new topics. Sometimes, all I want to do is just turn the camera on and speak to the audience. If I were an actual teacher in a university or a college, I would be teaching the same thing for years. That's not the case here. I have to find new content every day just research, just look for what's new, what's going on, what's trending, what do people want to learn and all of that. It's a lot of work and that's something I sometimes like, but mostly I do not like. So I have to research and find something new to teach.
Then we need to create a lesson plan. And then we need to find the images that would work the best with that technique. We need to find images that would show the technique to the fullest. Once we find the image, we have to just plan how the shoot is going to be. Then shoot the video, shooting is fun. Then editing the video. Sometimes editing is not fun, but it's okay. If it's a long video, if it's more than 30 minutes, it's not fun. 10 minutes, it's such a breeze. I love doing it. After the editing, I have to think of a catchy title and I have to think of a thumbnail. So thinking of title and writing the YouTube description, these things are the things that I don't like. There are other things as well because as you work, you got to do your taxes. Of course, now I get someone else to do it, but there are certain things you got to do. Some ins and outs of works that just hurts to do. It's just too much work, checking emails, replying to emails and all of that.

Chris:
Okay. Some questions around this. I agree with you that that's the stuff that people don't often see or understand that in order to make a really good video, you have to work. It takes work, it takes research, it takes writing it, taking ... you practice and you, you test what it is that you're going to do. And then the recording part is fun. And then everything else is not fun again. So there's a lot of-

Unmesh:
Absolutely.

Chris:
... work before and after.

Unmesh:
There's a lot you would do, as you said. I would work alone. I would work so many days into it. We'll put in so much effort into it hoping that this video is going to go off the charts, maybe this will get a lot of views. And then when you release it, it doesn't. And then when you release a video that I just woke up and recorded, somehow get millions of views out of nowhere, it feels good, but then again, it just feels unfair. I worked so hard in that video and that didn't get a lot of attention, and the other dead. That's what I want. I don't want my audience or anybody who's trying to succeed to get his or her first video or first content viral. I don't want that to happen because if it gets viral, it gets down easily. So gradual growth is always something I would recommend and I would hope for everyone to happen.

Chris:
If you have that first massive hit, it might be depressing because the followups-

Unmesh:
Yeah, it will go down.

Chris:
... it will go down.

Unmesh:
Absolutely. Where is Psy today? He's not doing anything after a Gangnam Style. He did-

Chris:
Very true.

Unmesh:
... but-

Chris:
He tried, it didn't-

Unmesh:
Yeah, he tried. He's still trying, he's doing great. But then I'm not saying he's a bad person or a bad singer, he's a great artist. But that's the way viral things work. It just goes up and then it goes down.

Chris:
So that's the fable, the Tortoise and the Hare. That you get that hare that runs off really fast, but it doesn't actually finish the race. Slow and steady wins. Since you mentioned this, what is a hit for you? When you produce something in the first 24 hours, the first week, and it hits a certain number of views, what do you consider a success for you and you can feel good about it?

Unmesh:
I look at 30 minutes. When I had 1 million subscribers, I had a different number. But when I have 2 million subscribers, I have a different number. Again, it depends upon channel to channel. For an entertainment channel, with 2 million subscribers, my views are very, very low because usually entertainment channels, they have 2 million subscribers, but they get about 5 million views a video. For me, I have 2 million subscribers, I get about 100,000, 80,000, stuff like that. For a learning channel, because there are certain things people want to learn and you create tutorials, you teach certain things, there are selective things people want to learn. It's not entertainment that they watch everything, it's not Seinfeld or ... For me in 30 minutes, if I get 6,000 plus views, then I know that this video is going to be successful.

Chris:
That's interesting. So the first 30 minutes is your benchmark, huh?

Unmesh:
Benchmark, first one hour. It's got to be more than 8,000. But 30 minutes, you can tell how the video's going to do. Plus if you have the YouTube Studio app, and I'm sure you have that, once you publish a video, it just shows you up in the dashboard how good this video did in comparison to the last 10 videos. That's a good benchmark as well. If it's above fifth position, then you're doing good. Then you're growing good, then you're just going in the right direction. If it's always going below five, then something's wrong. Maybe we need to try something else or change something.

Chris:
Do you do other things to promote the views once you release the video-

Unmesh:
Right now, no.

Chris:
Okay.

Unmesh:
No, I used to. This is a funny story. When I started with YouTube creating Photoshop tutorials ... do you know there's an app called WhatsApp. A lot of people in America don't know about it and they don't use it. But for the rest of the world, they use WhatsApp a lot. Then I used to make videos, I had less than 100 subscribers. I used to spam everybody, watch this, watch this in WhatsApp groups and just send links to everybody. Here's the most tragic part. I could see YouTube analytics, nobody clicked on that link. Nobody watched, none of my friends watched the video. It felt bad back then. But looking at it now, I was thinking if somebody sends me a link, I wouldn't watch it either if it is not of interest to me. So, I was sending stuff to the wrong audience. So that's something I did back then and it didn't work.

Chris:
Okay. Now you just release a video and you don't go on social and you don't try to promote it anywhere?

Unmesh:
As a beginner, I would suggest doing this, but not spam everybody. But this is a good technique that helped me a lot in the beginning. Post videos natively, natively. People make this mistake of posting the YouTube link on Facebook. Facebook is creepy not showing posts with links to a lot of people. So, you post your videos on YouTube. If you have the time, you make it a little shorter for Facebook. But I'm not expecting you to have 26 hours in a day. So, whatever you have on YouTube you just re-upload that on Facebook natively, natively. For a lot of people, the goal is to get more views on YouTube and get more likes and subscribers on YouTube. That is not our goal, that shouldn't be our goal. Our goal is to get exposure, however, we get it, we get exposure, that should be our goal.
Post natively, people are more likely to watch on Facebook. Then create a page, post it on the page natively. All right. The third thing is, and this got me a lot of longtime friends, find Facebook groups where you can post your videos or content. Facebook groups are the key. So, find Facebook groups, post you're ... If you're creating tutorials, I used to post them natively. I didn't try to create a manipulative funnel of people getting them to try to click on a link and get into and sign up somewhere, I didn't do any of that. I posted the video natively again on just the group. I just want to help people, that's it. That's my goal. I just want to help people. I don't want them to click a link and go somewhere, just to help people.
Post a video there. A lot of people watched it. A lot of people were curious, who is this guy? I love this video. They clicked on my profile. And then from there, they themselves found it. When people find stuff themselves, that's the best way to promote yourself.

Chris:
I see. Those are good tips, those are good tips. I hope everyone was paying attention to that. I think you are doing the definition of marketing the right way, which is a generous act of trying to help other people achieve their goals. I read that in the book, This Is Marketing from Seth Godin. So, beautiful. We have a lot of alignment in terms of how we approach things because when we make a video, we're not trying to get you into that funnel, we don't care. We're not going to just teach you everything. It's not an email trap or anything like that. That's typically-

Unmesh:
Absolutely.

Chris:
... how other people market their courses. No, obviously we do have-

Unmesh:
Exactly.

Chris:
... courses.

Unmesh:
Yeah, and that's a good thing. We need to look at things, not in a short term, but in a long term. That's what you have done with your audience. Now, you have about how many, 800, 900,000 subscribers on YouTube, right?

Chris:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Unmesh:
I think you have captured most of the designer's audience because every designer I talk to, knows you here in India. So, that's a huge step. A lot of people, I don't like to say a lot of people again and again, but anyway, so we look at YouTube subscribers only by numbers. We don't look it in a way of, let's say, market share of how much audience there is of that share. For instance, if you take 100 people at random, how many people out of them would like entertainment content? Probably 99, 100 people. How many of those 100 people will be into Photoshop? Probably less than one, maybe 0.2, 0.5 or something like ...
How many would be designers? Something of a similar number. So, what we have done with our audience, it's a pretty large number, it's not a small number, but then we compare it with entertainers who have got 30 million, 40 million subscribers. That's not the right way to compare. You really want to look at how many people are using or are in your niche.

Chris:
It's relative to the market that you're speaking to. We feel the same way. There are people will make amazing science videos or free giveaways, and they attract a lot of eyeballs and it's a mass audience. You and I, we're in a different space. We're trying to teach, we're trying to help people to empower them with the ideas and the tools that we know how to use. So, it's a different market and you're crushing it. I admire what you're doing.
I want to get back to one thing. You said that sometimes the painful part is the preparation. So, it got me to think, how long does it take for you to make a video? We see the 30 minute clip, what we don't see is all the before and after in terms of the recording. The recording everybody can see. So how much time does it take for you to make a video on average?

Unmesh:
Now, as a designer, I'm sure you would understand this, that, and this is an answer, which I don't like to give, but I have to give and that is, it depends, it depends. Some mornings you wake up and you have an idea and you want to shoot it right away without even scripting anything. You shoot it, it's the hit. Sometimes I'm just banging my head on the wall for 11 hours straight and there is no idea, or three or four days, there is no idea. I'm looking at every old video trying to add new spice to it, doesn't work. I'm reading people's comments, what they want, what is trending right now, but it doesn't feel like making it. So sometimes, it takes a lot more and sometimes you just have it.
But there is a process you can always follow when you don't have the idea. For instance, there's a process I follow. First, I would start by rereading people's comments. I get an idea usually there. If I don't get an idea, then I look at, what are people asking for these days, what is the effect or the filter trending? Then what are the new features? What's the news around Photoshop? There's a lot of things we can look at when it comes to teaching. You can create your own step by step procedure of researching and finding out a topic. But that does not guarantee that you will find topic.

Chris:
That is true. I saw the video that you did right after Adobe Max, I think, which was the top 10 newest tools or features for Photoshop. That thing got a lot of use really fast.

Unmesh:
Well, here's a little secret. I'm sure you are a part too of the beta testing of Adobe.

Chris:
Oh, actually we're not.

Unmesh:
Okay. I'm in the Photoshop beta testing. So we are obviously not allowed to share the new features unless it's released. This is before Adobe MAX two years ago, Adobe MAX. I created a video of new features two years ago, as well, and it got a lot of use too. Then I got the software when it was launched. Within a day, I had to rush in and create a video. But this time have been easy. I prerecorded it. I was in Adobe MAX, so there's no way I could have recorded it then. Prerecorded it, kept it unlisted, when the event was there, I just launched it.

Chris:
Beautiful, yeah. For those people who don't know, if you're an active user of a particular piece of software, you can get invited into the beta testing group. We used to do it with After Effects, but I didn't use it enough that I could meaningfully contribute and provide feedback to the team. So this is how creators like Unmesh are able to have access to the tools before you have them and then he can write and produce them. That's why it's not a magic trick that he's able to do it so fast. Okay, very good.

Unmesh:
We risk damaging our computers.

Chris:
Yes, that's true. Sometimes that can happen. You said that sometimes you're inspired, there's a spark and you make it. Do you know right away as you're making that this is going to be hot or sometimes you're-

Unmesh:
I'm telling you, I think a lot of things. I'm thinking, this is going to be hot. I'm going to just swim in a pool of money. But then the video drops and it gets about 2,000 views in the first half an hour and I'm just sitting here with $2, nice.

Chris:
Yeah. It's like, it was a hot piece of turd.

Unmesh:
Yeah.

Chris:
Okay. You know what I know, which is you think you have a plan, but it doesn't always work out. Sometimes it works and sometimes it totally surprise you like, that thing, really? If you could replicate that, you'd be making money all day long. But it's not predictable.

Unmesh:
But you cannot replicate viral, that's the whole definition of viral. You cannot replicate viral. If people could replicate viral, then it wouldn't be viral.

Chris:
Well, it does seem like some creators, some out there. Okay, I'll just mention it like Mr. B's doing these outrageous giveaways, it seemed like that's his formula. It does seem like he gets millions and millions of views. I have respect for him. But after a while watching these things, I'm like, okay, is this another free giveaway? Yeah, what else are we-

Unmesh:
No, I'm not into giveaways because here's the thing with giveaways, now you might have done giveaways before, I'm not trying to offend anybody. It is just the thing that when you get things on a giveaway, you're not getting it on merit. That's what I do not like about giveaways. Now, if you're doing giveaways, absolutely fine. But I don't believe in giveaways and we can disagree, it's okay. The thing is, if I have somethings to give, I would rather conduct a contest where the best work gets something or the best answer gets something. The people have to work hard for something and there is a merit basis on which we are giving things out. A giveaway is just like a lottery. I'm not into those things.

Chris:
I get it.

Greg:
Time for a quick break, but we'll be right back with more from Unmesh. Good design work should clearly communicate a message, the same is true for good designers. So, why present flat lifeless product ideas? Put an interactive prototype in the hands of your manager, client or CEO and watch their eyes light up as they buy into your vision. Framer is your secret weapon. Start from scratch or import from another design tool. Drag and drop powerful interactive components set of transitions and create your own stunning animations all without code. It's rich realistic prototyping made easy. Sign up for free or get 20% off any paid plan by visiting flamer.com/thefuture. That's framer.com/thefuture. Welcome back to our conversation with Unmesh Dinda.

Chris:
Okay. I want to do a little pivot here. I want to talk about the business of this, and we'll see what Unmesh is comfortable sharing with us. And then we're going to go to your chat and questions and comments in a second. Okay, everybody? Hang tight there. All right. I'm going to disclose this.

Unmesh:
All right.

Chris:
We'll see what happens here. Our channel, we have a little over 800,000 subs heading onto 900, as Unmesh already mentioned. We do about $10,000 a month in ad revenue. I think about this because that's $120,000 U.S. a year that is relatively painless for us, it's passive income. We make content to help people, YouTube figures out who wants to sponsor the video. So we don't have to do a lot of selling or anything at all and we make $10,000 a month. Now, I have a couple of questions for you because there's a lot of people out in the world right now where making $10,000 period a year would be a lot of money. So $10,000 a month, I understand that it's a very privileged thing for me to be able to say like, okay, that's $120,000 a year, you guys can do this. But let me understand a couple of things. You currently reside in Mumbai, which is a very expensive place to live in India.

Unmesh:
Yes.

Chris:
If I'm a designer and I've just graduated from school and I'm going to work in some design creative field, how much money can I make a year?

Unmesh:
As I said, 25 to 30,000 rupees a month. You know companies these days, they don't like to pay much, they don't like to pay a lot. So some try to get the students in that 20, 25 range. But if somebody is good, so really good, they can get up to 30,000 a month. Fresh out of college, probably with little experience while college, maybe you've done internships before, then yeah, about 25 to 30.

Chris:
Okay. We did the math ahead of time because I don't want to do math live on the channel because I screw it up all the time. We said that it's about $4,500 U.S. per year. I want to put that in context here because some of you feel like in your local market, people don't respect design, don't like design, your bosses don't treat you well. It sucks. And then you wonder, what else can you do? It turns out there's a lot of other things that you can do besides going to work and clocking in if that's not working out for you.
And then for comparison's sake, I also want to ask you, Unmesh, that if you're a doctor or a lawyer, pretty successful because I want to understand the spectrum. At the one end, a creative person is going to make $4,500 a year. What might a doctor or a lawyer make on the opposite side, if they're really successful, 10 years out of school, junior partner or something like that, how much money might they make?

Unmesh:
200 to 300,000 rupees a month. You can calculate whatever the number is, I know you pre-calculated it.

Chris:
10 times as much as a creative person.

Unmesh:
But then again, we are not considering the 10 years difference, right?

Chris:
That's true.

Unmesh:
The designer is just fresh out of college and the doctors would have to study more in college and after that 10 years or so. Yeah, they're in their 35s and understand that you cannot compare a person who's 35 and person who's 24 just out of college.

Chris:
Right, fair enough-

Unmesh:
There is that difference.

Chris:
Okay. We did the math also. So, it's about $36,000 a year in terms of the salary. So $4,500 a year to 36,000, that's the parameter. Now, let's move that to the side-

Unmesh:
I'm sorry to introduce anything-

Chris:
Do you want to add something to clarify, so we can-

Unmesh:
Absolutely.

Chris:
Go ahead.

Unmesh:
Now, this is the salary that I'm talking about. Usually what designers do, especially these days and some of the people ... You had a series called Young Guns. Young Guns, there was this girl, [inaudible 00:31:04] and she is from [inaudible 00:31:07], yes. We are friends. She, and a lot of other people in our group, they don't just work, she is independent by the way, but I'm speaking for a general audience, that a lot of people also work as a freelancer, a lot of designers. So they also work with clients from abroad. So that's an additional income as well. There are a lot of independent designers.
I was just talking about the numbers, which are related to people who are working in companies, major companies in advertising agencies as the designer fresh out of college, not considering the independent ones. The independent ones can probably earn way more than me, or way more than the average pay skills because the independent designers are working with clients from abroad. So that's a whole different story. Everybody who's working with clients from abroad, well, they make a lot more than the salary on the pay scale they give here.

Chris:
Yeah. Thanks for clarifying that. I just want to do this in ways that people can get their heads wrapped around because every local economies, different cost of living is different. So, we have to take that into consideration. So we're doing this for context. We're saying, you're going to make somewhere as a fresh graduate working in the creative service space as a full time salaried employee a little bit [notes 00:32:35] of $4,000 a year. And then if you're a doctor, like say, and you've been out of school for 10 years and you're professional person, you're going to probably make around $36,000 a year. There's a big difference there, that's almost nine times difference in terms of your salary.
But like I just said, if you were doing what we're doing, and I think we're a special, but we're not so special, we're some weird unicorn, we earn $10,000 a month on average, sometimes more when the ad rates are higher. So that would put us $120,000 a year, which is not quite four times, but three times what a doctor would make. I only say this because I think we've been trained. We've been trained to follow very traditional patterns of how to make our way in the world, where we go to college, we graduate and we get a job, then we stay in the salaried life and we get stuck sometimes. That's why I like to point to you as, hey, here's a young man in Mumbai doing it totally different way. And then we're not even getting into the freelancers out there, which I will talk about in a second.
I got to ask you, with your numbers, I know you're you got 2 million subs, so you got more than two times what we have, your videos get way more views than ours do, hundreds of thousands of views, sometimes millions of views. I think I counted, you have 17 videos right now that have 1 million plus views on your channel-

Unmesh:
Wow.

Chris:
Yeah.

Unmesh:
I didn't know that myself, I don't look at the stats. Wow, that's pretty good.

Chris:
What-

Unmesh:
That's amazing.

Chris:
Where am I getting to, what's the point of this? The point-

Unmesh:
All right, let me answer this.

Chris:
How much money do you make?

Unmesh:
It's absolutely different from your ... It's not like if you make, let's say, 100, if I have double the subscribers, I would make double, it is not the case. It depends upon where your audience is and where the ads are going, if the ads are going or if they are not going, depending upon the local advertisers. For example, when we were talking in the Adobe MAX, I had about 16% U.S. people-

Chris:
I see.

Unmesh:
... and 15% India. So India was at the second place. Right now, India is at the top because of the strict lockdown. We are in a lockdown, it's my 72nd days here, home not going out. It's crazy strict lockdown. So, India is at the top at 17%, U.S. is at 13%. Right now, my income has gone really low because the ad rates in India is pretty lower than compared to ad rates in the U.S. so it doesn't matter. To be honest with you, Chris, I don't look at the numbers as long as I'm getting adequate enough to just help me keep going, it's fine, it's all right.

Chris:
I love it, I love it. He's a young man. We're not going to say how young he is, but he's somewhere between 20 or 30, I think. He doesn't worry about money because he-

Unmesh:
You can say, I'm 23.

Chris:
Okay. He's 23 years old. 23 years old, okay, just think about this. He has no concern anymore about money, he doesn't even look at the money. That's a baller statement right there. I'm just going to say it's a baller statement because most people are just scratching to survive and you've created something very valuable for yourself. You told me before, everything that you do is out of your bedroom because I thought maybe your studio is different. It's the same one, it's just maybe a little bit different.

Unmesh:
It's a convenience, that's what people don't understand. It's a convenience because I am waking up, I have an idea, oh, let's go shoot. I'm in the other room, started shooting, done. If I had a studio, I would have to wake up, get to my vehicle, get to my bike, I drive a bike. Then go to the studio, then set everything up, then recording. In my room in my house, everything is set up. The lights are set up, I just have to turn them on. Camera is already there, start recording, done, boom. It saves a lot of production time, trust me. It does. Put a T-shirt on. Right now, I'm even wearing my half pants. I'm not dressed well down here. You guys probably do that as well. So-

Chris:
No, I'm fully dressed. Are you kidding me? I'm wearing shoes right now.

Unmesh:
Okay.

Chris:
He's saying, it's all business and we don't know, we'll just have to let everybody imagine what's on the bottom.

Unmesh:
Yeah. It's air.

Chris:
Okay. We'll probably cut in a weird graphic, you guys. It got a little hot in this room, am sweating a little bit here. Okay, all right.

Unmesh:
You want the secret to make a lot of money?

Chris:
Please tell me.

Unmesh:
Yeah.

Chris:
Well, you know what? I know we talked about this off air, you live very modestly and I like that about you in that people who make money fast, especially when they were young, and this is a broad statement, they can let it get to their head. They go and buy expensive things, they go and upgrade everything. They just go buy, buy, buy, buy thinking that the money will always be there. I love your attitude about this. You told me right before, this is unpredictable. You just don't know what's going to happen, so it would not be wise to go crazy and spend that money. What have you done with the money you've earned?

Unmesh:
I plan it very well, to be honest. Have you heard of Jim Rohn?

Chris:
Yes, of course.

Unmesh:
Yeah. He gave a brilliant lecture on what to do with money. There's a lot of intricacies to it. I would suggest everybody to watch all of his lectures on YouTube. There's a lecture, which is four or five hours, create the best life or something like that. It's a wonderful lecture. What he said was, don't spend more than 70% of your income. 10% of your income should be towards the help of the society and contribution towards the society. 10% should be active investment and 10% passive investment like stocks, mutual funds and fixed deposits and all of that. Active investments means investing into your business and just buying a cycle, giving it for rent and stuff like that.
Now, this person ditch might be different for everybody. For a person who's making a lower income, relatively lower income, for them, the percentage might be 90%. He would be spending 3%, 3%, 3%. That would be their division. For bill Gates, that would be different. He would spend 0.001% of his income and the rest would be divided. So, that's what I do. There are few couple rules that everybody can look up online, I'm not a money expert. A couple rules, save before you spend, invest before you spend. Simple things like that, that's not complicated. If you always put aside a certain percentage before spending, then you would never get into debt, you would never get into trouble.

Chris:
Mark, you see why he's so attractive to my wife now, Mark? You can see that? At 23 years old, do you know what happened? I was making the money, I was buying toys, comics. I was buying stuff I didn't even want. I love that about you, I really do.

Unmesh:
Though to be honest, I do that too all the time. I can actually show you things I don't need.

Chris:
Yes.

Unmesh:
No, I can't find that. Oh here is-

Chris:
Because you're not wearing pants, so you don't stand up.

Unmesh:
Yeah, I would have. But anyway, so that's a little thing. I was about to tell you a secret of making money.

Chris:
Please.

Unmesh:
It is something that I learned later. It's so applicable to you, to me and to a lot of people. That is, from Zig Ziglar, I also watched a lot of his classes and he said like, "You will get all you want in life if you help enough people get what they want." So, if you can do something to help a massive number of people, you can get a lot of money, that's easy. You don't have to worry about where you're getting the money from, you don't have to worry about manipulating them into paying you. You just simply help them without expecting anything at all and you'll get it, absolutely.

Chris:
I just love it, 100%, 100%. Okay. You said 70%, you spend 30%, you save-

Unmesh:
That's not my percentage.

Chris:
Right. I'm going to ask you-

Unmesh:
That would be-

Chris:
I know, I'm going to ask you right now. So what is your percentage?

Unmesh:
Let me see. It would be about 15%.

Chris:
You spent 15%?

Unmesh:
I don't spend more. Yeah. Not more than 15%.

Chris:
Probably more. I mean, that you spend less.

Unmesh:
Not more than 50%.

Chris:
That's incredible. So 85% of it, you're investing and doing things. I have to ask you, what do your parents think about all this stuff that our son, he's making videos on YouTube, which I have to say that, especially from where you live, that's a crazy, crazy radical idea because I live here in America and I'm still trying to explain to my parents I make videos on YouTube and this is how we build our business. What did they think about this? If they don't understand it, I assume they do understand it, it's hard to deny.

Unmesh:
Oh come on. They are some super cool parents.

Chris:
They're cool parents.

Unmesh:
Super cool parents, I got them into creating their own YouTube channel. You wouldn't believe it.

Chris:
No.

Unmesh:
Yeah.

Chris:
Are you serious?

Unmesh:
Yeah. My mother was an art and craft teacher for 20 years in school and then she taught in colleges. She's an artist. She's an artist who paints on canvas, not on rock and tablets. So is my father, both are artists. So, I got them to start a YouTube channel on arts and crafts. They're still doing it.

Chris:
Two separate channels or one channel for the both of them?

Unmesh:
Obviously one channel.

Chris:
Okay. What's that channel? Tell us what it is. We'll send some people their way.

Unmesh:
It's called Arty Krafty. Krafty with a K.

Chris:
Arty Krafty.

Unmesh:
Yeah. A-R-T-Y K-R-A-F-T-Y, yeah.

Chris:
I know we're in your bedroom right now. So do we see them in their bedroom in their videos?

Unmesh:
No, you're not in the bedroom. I have another room where I sleep. This is another room where I've set up everything.

Chris:
I see, I see. Do your parents use the same room to record their video?

Unmesh:
They use another room. We have free four rooms and a hall. So, it depends. Sometimes the hall feels right, the light is right, they shoot it there. It doesn't really matter which room they shoot in, it's all ours. So we don't separate ourselves in rooms of, this is my room, that is your room. We don't do that.

Chris:
Right. Okay. So you have super cool parents that you got onto YouTube, which I think that should be a new challenge. #getyourgetyourparentsonyoutube. Mark, what do you think? I think we have to do that. It's going to be a disaster and I'll probably be screaming like, "No, don't do it this way. What are you doing?" But we'll see what happens. I'm just trying to get my son to do it, all right.

Unmesh:
Wow. What are you getting him into, creating what kind of content?

Chris:
Yeah, he's 14 years old. He started making videos when I think he was 12 years old, but then he gave up. This is a Testament to you and sticking through, you had told me before you made 100 videos, you didn't even think about how many subs or views you've got. How many subscribers did you-

Unmesh:
I got to be honest.

Chris:
Yeah.

Unmesh:
I got be honest. It was upsetting, it was depressing. I'm not some the most patient guy in the world, I'm not that. I'm just a human as well and it was depressing too. There are a lot of things that I had to listen to to get through that. Now, what you listen to, also affects what your mindset is. What you keep listening to all the time, what your surroundings are, are very essential. I always, during those times, and still do sometimes, listen to people like Zig Ziglar, Jim Rohn, Les Brown. It's not always for learning what they say, which is also important, but to keep the positive video around. It's a real thing. It's not distinct people say that you need to have for the sake of seeing it, but it's just a real thing. It just affects directly what you do, it affects your decisions, it affects your productivity.

Chris:
100%, I agree with you. It was hard. You did it and you weren't getting the results that you wanted, but you did what few people do. You didn't quit, you stuck it out. You figured it out what the cadence was and how you have to be on camera and to talk about subjects that people care about. You developed a way of working a process, a research, titling thumbnails that would get viewed and you did it. Whereas currently, my son is like, "I gave up, Dad. I don't want to do that right now." That's totally okay because I don't want to pressure my children to do anything.

Unmesh:
Absolutely.

Chris:
Yeah.

Unmesh:
I'm sure he would do what he loves to do. Here's the most motivating part for me. I love to record myself in the camera. I love to speak to people. I love teaching. That's what keeps me going, even if just one person watches, I would love to teach. It's essential, we don't have to force people to get into something or do something. If they already love it, they'll do it anyway.

Chris:
Yeah, okay. I think we skirted or flirted around with the answer to this and not even get a chance to ask it. I'll ask you something, then I'll move on to something else. So we do about $10,000 a month. I have to imagine you're doing exponentially more than that.

Unmesh:
Not exponentially as-

Chris:
Tell us, how much are you making?

Unmesh:
Well, I cannot disclose it. I do well.

Chris:
Do you do five times as well or 10 times as well, or ...

Unmesh:
I do X times as well.

Chris:
See, X times means exponential. That's what X stands for everybody. Well, I do want to say this because-

Unmesh:
Well, you're just talking like, I got E in my math test, E for excellent.

Chris:
Okay. Well, look, ladies and gentlemen, everybody that's watching this, let's just understand something. He's 23 years old, he's been playing around with videos for actually a really long time, but where he hit his stride was about three years ago and is now over 2 million subscribers. He's working at home, he doesn't sell a course. He doesn't do anything else except for, I think, make videos. However, he makes money passively, this is he does. He doesn't have a concern about money in the world. He also, invest probably more than 85% of his income into other things. Next to the next question, we're moving on.

Unmesh:
Okay, cool.

Chris:
Okay. You have ... Go ahead.

Unmesh:
I got to give you a warning. I'm sorry to interrupt.

Chris:
[inaudible 00:47:36] time?

Unmesh:
Thank you for [inaudible 00:47:37] me. No, no, not on time.

Chris:
Okay.

Unmesh:
On YouTube, yeah. It all sounds wonderful. Like LA LA Land, it's so good. You get into YouTube and get a lot of money. But it's very uncertain. You know that already from your channel. Sometimes it just goes down like crazy, sometimes it might go up, you cannot tell. You already have established it. You do a lot of things, you sell courses, right?

Chris:
Right.

Unmesh:
I also have to find different things, have at least more than one source of income so that you can always have a backup. Just like you have a backup for your computer, you have a backup for your income as well. So besides YouTube, I do Patreon. You know what Patreon is. People support you and in return you sometimes give certain things, a lot of people don't give. It's just a crowdfunding supporting platform, that's what I do. On YouTube, sometimes there's some promotions we do where we say that this is a sponsored video and we go from there. Apart from that, there are speaking events, which this year, there aren't many, there are none actually. So, there are lots of sources, it's not just YouTube. It's not good idea to just rely on YouTube.

Chris:
Yeah. I agree with you. Maybe one day you'll make that a course. I hope to be able to lure you into making a course with us. But I understand totally that you want to make what you do free for everybody, so I love that about you. It's a wonderful thing to be able to do. All right. Let's switch gears a little bit here. Let's take some questions, Mark.

Mark:
Going back to your conversation about your parents doing YouTube now, someone's asking, do they edit or do you teach them to edit?

Chris:
Good question.

Unmesh:
Interesting story. My father is the one who introduced me to Photoshop. So he was doing a course in DTP back in 2006 or seven. He brought in the computer and had Photoshop six or seven installed and he got me into it. He learned a little bit of video editing, photo editing. So he has a little bit of a background into that, so he knows. My mother is the one who does the craft and my father shoots and edits the video and sometimes he just does that too.

Chris:
Nice. [crosstalk 00:50:07].

Unmesh:
Yeah, you know I have to take credit where it belongs. So sometimes they help her, what kind of title we should have or not thumbnail, what improvements you need to make. But I'm guilty that I don't usually get so much time to guide them properly, but they are excellent people.

Mark:
Trailing off of that question. A lot of our viewers are probably having some difficulty trying to explain what they're doing to their parents. I mean, to what Chris was talking about. Do you have any advice for the audience to maybe work together with their parents or even explain what they do so that it's not such a conflict, especially with parents that look to professional jobs as the way to do life?

Unmesh:
I'm not the right person to answer this question, to be honest because I've always had parents who have supported me in whatever I did. I wish that everybody gets a supportive parent like that. But I'm sorry, I don't know how to answer that because I've always had the good environment for me.

Chris:
I'm going to answer it then. I'm glad you don't have an answer because it gives me an opportunity to answer this. How long has the iPhone been around, Mark? It's 10 years? Over 10 years. So the iPhone is introduced and then it disrupts so many different industries from ... people used to by GPSes, people used to buy maps. So it displaced all those things. And then if you had a pager or an ability to text people, sometimes those are different plans, different ideas. So just in the last 10 plus years, brand new industries have been created, others have been destroyed and decimated. Oftentimes we look to the past to determine where we should go in the future, but that's not really where the future lives.
I mean, today we're dealing with AI, deep learning, deepfakes, all kinds of new things that are happening and that the rule book that your parents grew up with, worked in their era and you need to understand that and hopefully they understand it too. Ultimately, all your parents want to do if they're good hearted, good natured people, is to protect you from a life of pain and misery. But they're giving you like the Atari 2600, when it's the PlayStation 4 is out. It's not going to help you and you have to say it, "Mom and dad, I do love you and I cherish you for trying to look out for me, but I need to figure out what I need to do. Not only does it need to align with what the opportunities are now and in the near future, but also things that I love," because if you show up every day and do the job that you hate, the people who show up and love it, are going to outperform you every single day.
I'm speaking from experience here because I have a lot of cousins who are doing that traditional thing about studying law, dentistry, engineering, medicine. A lot of them are not happy and that's why they live for the weekends. So if you look forward towards the weekend as your escape from your everyday life, it's telling you something is wrong. So I'm going to tell you right now, the reason why I wanted to have Unmesh on the show was this, is because he provides a shining beacon and example of going your own path, whether you have your parents support or not, obviously he did. He's very fortunate to have that. He's able to create something entirely different and to benefit from that. We're hearing it right now. I want to continue to promote and champion people who have taken a different path because this is the time, this is your time. Of course, it takes work, it takes dedication, it takes a little bit of luck and it takes a level of commitment and it should take that.
Seth Godin writes about this in his book, in the Dip, he says this, if something is easy to attain, it means everybody will have it. Scarcity is the biggest driver of value. So, a different kid in Mumbai probably did videos just like Unmesh. But when they couldn't figure out how to make it click, they gave up. He did not, he kept going at it until he found something that worked. He pushed past the temporary set back, the pain that he was feeling, the depression, and he kept going forward. So he gets to the top of that pyramid. Right now, I just don't know if that many people on YouTube are producing YouTube tutorials on the level of which he's doing it. So that's the message I want to share with you.
If you have a parent that you, for some reason after hearing this, still need their approval, you need their support because your relationship is everything, have them call me, I'll talk to him. I'll tell them about the career that you could have, but you have to hold up your end of the bargain because it's not a guarantee.

Mark:
I love it. Unmesh, you're not a YouTuber, you're a teacher and I think that's what might be misconstrued by the generations above us because they're seeing this as a new media, but it's just a platform. You're an educator, you're a teacher and then maybe that's the differentiation there between what we explain as a YouTuber and someone that just making videos.

Unmesh:
Right.

Chris:
Good way to reframe that, Mark.

Mark:
In my observation, yeah. I think I experienced it myself too with my parents, so I could see how that works-

Unmesh:
General public, most of us, and I'm not saying that I'm better than everybody else, I'm not, I'm maybe might words, but most of us develop an idea of anybody who creates videos on YouTube as a YouTuber. But to be honest, I don't want to be put into that box because, as you said, I'm a teacher. If it wasn't for YouTube, I would have taught somewhere else, maybe even live. So, it's not, you put somebody in a box like he's la YouTuber. No, he is a content creator. Content creator for me is a better word.

Chris:
Yeah, okay. Sidestep question here.

Unmesh:
Yeah, sure.

Chris:
You have a very distinctive look. Do you get recognized a lot when you're walking the streets before the shutdown, before the lockdown, when you walk, when people are like, "Hey, Unmesh. I watch your channel"?

Unmesh:
In photography conferences, yes. Not here.

Greg:
Really?

Unmesh:
We got ... how many? 1.3 billion people here, so not much of a scope. But yeah, sometimes it happens in malls, sometimes when I'm walking on restaurants and airports. Yes, it happens a lot of times. But in the U.S. especially, and even in here, whenever I go to a photography conference, that's just boosts my ego a ton. It just makes me feel like a rock star. I wonder, I hope it happens more, but it doesn't.

Chris:
All this time, he thought he was so Zen and enlightened. He's like, nope. The rockstar life is actually pretty good.

Unmesh:
It's pretty good.

Chris:
It's pretty good. I love that. I love that you're being so real about everything. Okay. I noticed something too, which surprised me a little bit. When I saw you at Adobe MAX, it's hard to figure out what you're like in 3DD, but Adobe MAX, you're a fit guy, you work out. And then I watched the earlier video, maybe you were less fit before. When did that happen?

Unmesh:
Can I tell you something? Do why am I wearing a jacket right now?

Chris:
Please tell me.

Unmesh:
To hide all the fat that I gained during the quarantine.

Chris:
Your mom's been feeding you well, is that what you're saying?

Unmesh:
Hell yeah. There's a point where you just cannot say no, she will start making delicious food with all the fat, with all the fried stuff and the delicious meals and there is no activity. I thought in the lockdown of, let's say 60 days, I would exercise every day and maybe grow a six pack. But after the 10th day, I thought to myself, let this Corona go and after that I'll do something about it and start it.

Chris:
So instead of getting the six pack, you're working on the two liter?

Unmesh:
I got a family pack.

Chris:
That's real. That's real because you be like, you know what? I'm going to read these books. I'm going to work out like an animal. I got all this free time, what am I going to do? No, you binge watch TV shows and then you eat whatever is around. Yeah, that's the thing. A couple of comedians said this, "People have been describing this lockdown as almost like a prison sentence, as a concentration camp." They're like, "This is the only prison or concentration camp you ever go to where you get fatter at the end of it." That's what everyone is doing. Okay, we're hanging in there. All right, let's take another question. I think we need to wrap up pretty soon, Mark. Let's take another question from the group here. What do they got?

Mark:
We've got a question here from Dave [inaudible 00:59:15] and he's asking, Unmesh, what are your future goals? Are you looking at it just day by day, or do you have milestones in your head and what do you explore?

Chris:
Oh, good one.

Unmesh:
That's a really good one. That is something we say to buy time to answer the question. I don't know to be honest.

Chris:
We'll edit it together and it'll be like, oh my God, this guy has all the answers.

Unmesh:
No, you don't have to edit it, but if you want, you can. I don't have any plans at the moment at all. I just want to keep creating. Actually I can tell you what I have done in detail. I have divided my life into five parts right in terms of priorities and that's how I schedule my weeks, and that's how I schedule my days and my time. These are according to how much impact each part is giving me. Let's say I spend five hours making YouTube videos, and let's say it gives me, let's take an arbitrary number, it gives me $1,000. If I spend five hours making a YouTube video, it gives me $1,000. If I spend five hours doing email, it doesn't guarantee anything and might end up giving me some sponsor deals and might end up an average of probably $100. So, I'm spending more time in email where it's giving me less income and I'm spending less time on YouTube where it's giving me exponential income.
So we need to prioritize our lives, that's what I do. I might be wrong, Chris. I think we need to prioritize our life according to which part of our lives are giving us the most impact in lesser amount of time and of what you enjoy the most as well. For me, the first part is a YouTube, first priority. If you don't get anything done, get that done at least a few times a week, probably two pieces of content a week. Then the second one that's just giving me a lot of impact by investing little, that is Patreon. Replying to people, answering people, good income. After that, there is this business here and there, little business that I'm doing. I have made courses for companies in the past like [inaudible 01:01:44] and that's just comes into business.
And then the fourth one, which is important and that everybody should have that part in their life, and it's important that I ignored for most of my life and that is health. That's how I got fit, if you look at the later videos. Not now because of course, the quarantine thing. The fifth one is, I've just categorize that as opportunities because miscellaneous opportunities that might come and go and you just branch everything inside opportunity, right now, inside of that, I have Adobe MAX 2020. I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to discuss it, but Adobe MAX is not going to happen the way it was scheduled to happen, it's going to happen in another way. So that's one of the opportunities. I write for a Photoshop user magazine. That's another opportunity. There are few sponsorships that I'm working on. So that's all branched into opportunities. So those five parts of my life, I prioritize it. According to it, I plan everything.

Chris:
Now, you did say something, and I think I can't let this end without you saying this. You said you were working on some bigger plan-

Unmesh:
Did I say that?

Chris:
... before we went on air. Didn't you say that, or did I misinterpret that?

Unmesh:
No. Oh I didn't say anything like that, but one of my goals, and it should be everybody's goal is to be financially independent, is to reach at a point where the interests of your investment become your income and you don't have to work and the only work you do is by your choice. If you want to work, you can, if you don't want to work, you don't have to.

Chris:
Do you know what that number is in your mind?

Unmesh:
There is a number, but again, it depends. I don't think I can disclose it because I'm not an expert with numbers, but I do have a number in mind. The reason I can't disclose it is because it can be absolutely different for everybody. Somebody could imagine a luxurious life. For them, the number might be way higher. Somebody might want to leave a simple life. For them, the number might be lower. Again, it also depends on where you live and how many members are there in your family, how many people you want to take care of. So, the number just would change.
But then again, if you can determine, find out a number that you want every month that would just cover all your expenses and then figure out a number that you have to reach so that the interest would give you that number, that will give you financial freedom.

Chris:
Okay. Maybe we can take one last question, Mark, and then wrap this up.

Mark:
Sure. This question has to do with AI. I think people want to know your opinion on how AI is going to change Photoshop's workflow and if you think that it's going to replace design.

Unmesh:
First of all, we need to understand Photoshop is not the artist, you are the artist. Photoshop is just a tool and the AI is, again, just a tool. It's not going to give you creativity, it's not going to create anything creative. It's just going to make your life easier, that's what it's going to do. Even if it is AI, it cannot create and cannot think what humans think out of their own instincts. It might look at, let's say, 100,000 designs and maybe combine them to generate something, but it's, again, a generator. It's not something that humans can produce. In my opinion, it's going to make your life simpler, it's going to make it faster for you, make it easier for you, but it's not going to give you creativity.

Chris:
Very good. I like your answer. Photoshop is-

Unmesh:
Thanks.

Chris:
... not the artist. People forget that, people really do forget that and they get scared of failure ...

Unmesh:
Absolutely.

Chris:
Yeah, okay.

Unmesh:
Photoshop, you need to, most of us say, we need to learn that software, we need to do that. No, we need to learn that art, the software is just a tool, just a way to communicate with your art. That's it, it's a medium, it's an intermediate later between you and your computer.

Chris:
Okay. Before we wrap up here and get out of air, is there anything that you want to talk about that we ... I want to give this a platform over to you right now, is there anything that you want to talk about or mention, or maybe something we should have talked about?

Unmesh:
Maybe this is the thing we have talked about before, but then again, if you have no idea what you want to do and no idea where you want to go, or what should you do right now or what your goal is, and I was at that place and I am still at that place, I'm a beginner, the only thing that we can do right now is just keep creating. End of story. If you can just keep creating, you will get better, no doubt. You will gain a lot of, I don't want to say followers, but you'll network better. Most importantly, when you look back at your work, you will see a massive difference. With the works that you create, we will get more clearer as to what we want. The more we experiment, the more we understand what we want in the future and what we want as our goal.

Chris:
Fabulous. Just keep creating. I think that's how you sign off on most of your video, right?

Unmesh:
Absolutely.

Chris:
Yeah, great. Excellent. Unmesh, thank you very much for doing this with us and all of the people who tuned in live, who were able to do this to submit your questions. I wish you the best of luck, you don't need it. We're doing our best to catch up to you, but-

Unmesh:
Oh, thank you so much.

Chris:
... you're going so fast-

Unmesh:
Thank you.

Chris:
... and growing so much. It's incredible to-

Unmesh:
Thank you.

Chris:
... see you're an inspiration and-

Unmesh:
Thank you for having me. Thank you for giving me that push to grow up in my career and in my street cred. So, I appreciate.

Chris:
I understand you're single, right?

Unmesh:
Yeah. Thank you for bringing that up though.

Chris:
I'm just letting people know.

Unmesh:
Chris is my man.

Chris:
I'm your wing man. We did talk about this before, my wife adores you and I'm sure she's not alone in the world. Keep doing what you're doing because there's a level of maturity and humility about you that I think is super attractive, as well as all the things that you teach people.

Unmesh:
So are you. I'm not saying it's just for the sake of saying it. Talking to you and everybody at the Futur, it's just an enjoyable time. It's not like you're just answering questions or talking to a reporter, it's just talking to friends and that's what we are. You have to support the community and support each other.

Chris:
Absolutely. All right, everybody. I just finished having this wonderful conversation with Unmesh Dinda. His channel is PiXimperfect. There's no way that if you're using Photoshop that you don't know. But for the few of you that don't know, go check out his channel, you're going to learn so much. He's such a wonderful articulate teacher with some of the best little secrets. The nooks and crannies that nobody knows about, he knows about them, check him out. And then also don't forget-

Unmesh:
I forget about them too after making the videos.

Chris:
... do not forget to check out his parents channel, which is Arty Krafty with a K, Arty Krafty with a K. Check it out. That's it. Thanks very much. I will see you guys in The Futur.

Greg:
Thanks so much for joining us in this episode. If you're new to The Futur and want to know more about our educational mission, visit thefutur.com. You'll find more podcasts episodes, hundreds of YouTube videos and a growing collection of online courses and products covering design and business. Oh, we spell The Futur with no E. The Futur podcast is hosted by Chris Do and produced by me, Greg Gunn. This episode was mixed and edited by Anthony Baro, with intro music by Adam Sandborne. If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor and rate and review us on iTunes. It's a tremendous help in getting our message out there. Lets us know what you like. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.

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