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    Podcast 14 min read

    How to Niche Down and Grow Your Business w/ Matt Lakajev

    with Matt Lakajev

    Chris Do and Matt Lakajev explain how a specific niche makes a business easier for the right clients to recognize.

    Chris Do

    Chris Do

    Founder, The Futur™ · June 17, 2026

    A broad client list can hide a marketing problem

    A business can be good enough to earn referrals and still struggle to explain why a stranger should hire it. The work is not necessarily the problem. Matt Lakajev, who coaches business owners and runs the LinkedIn marketing program Six Figure Creators, locates the gap in how a business becomes recognizable outside its existing relationships.

    His perspective comes from working with founders and helping them market their services, particularly on LinkedIn. In conversation with Chris Do, he describes a familiar contradiction: the varied client list that proves a business can deliver also makes it difficult to tell prospective clients exactly whom it serves.

    A referral arrives carrying someone else's confidence. Before the first meeting, another person has already vouched for the provider. The prospective client still needs to assess compatibility and competence, but the introduction has done some of the persuasive work.

    Lakajev calls that remaining assessment a “weirdo test.” The phrase is deliberately blunt. A referred prospect is not necessarily encountering an unknown business with no reason to believe its claims.

    Online, that borrowed confidence is missing.

    A stranger scrolling past a post does not have the context of a recommendation or the patience of a scheduled conversation. The message has to establish relevance before there is an opportunity to explain the business in detail. A description that accommodates every previous client can fail to address any particular reader.

    This is where the resistance to specialization becomes expensive. Creative businesses often hear a narrower positioning statement as a restriction on the work they are allowed to accept. They imagine a smaller opportunity pool before considering whether the larger one currently produces any inquiries.

    Lakajev challenges that assumption by asking whether the business has actually won clients through its online marketing. If the answer is no, the supposed audience being sacrificed has not yet become a source of business.

    The trade is not necessarily fewer leads for greater clarity. It can be an unfocused message that produces nothing for a focused message that someone finally understands.

    Do approaches the same tension through the feeling of being chosen. A prospective client wants evidence that the provider understands their situation, not merely that the provider is available for any paying assignment. Universal interest can read as indifference to the details that make a particular engagement difficult.

    That distinction separates delivery capability from public positioning. A business can possess broad skills while choosing to make one application of those skills especially visible. Its marketing does not have to reproduce its entire portfolio.

    The aim is not to pretend other capabilities do not exist. It is to stop making an unfamiliar buyer assemble the case for relevance alone. The positioning statement should do work that the referral once did: provide an immediate reason to keep listening.

    The offer has to survive contact with the buyer

    Before a business chooses a narrower audience, Lakajev puts a more basic issue on the table: whether that audience would buy the offer at all. Precision is not proof of demand. A description can be extraordinarily specific and still identify people who have no interest in purchasing the proposed solution.

    His example is personal. He describes his father as a Christian panel beater from Sydney's Northern Beaches and imagines an offer for group therapy directed at someone exactly like him. In Lakajev's account, that offer would fail because his father already turns to church for that kind of support.

    The point is not a general claim about religion, occupation, or therapy. It is that demographic accuracy does not establish commercial relevance. A seller can correctly describe the person while misunderstanding what that person considers a solution.

    The buyer's existing behavior matters more than the elegance of the audience profile.

    Lakajev also describes the problem of selling coaching directly to managers who expect their employers to pay for professional development. A need can be genuine without the person experiencing it being the person prepared to purchase help.

    That is a different problem from weak copy. More persuasive language cannot automatically repair a mismatch between the beneficiary and the expected payer. Before promotion comes a practical investigation of how the purchase is supposed to happen.

    The distinction sits alongside the editorial premise of You Don't Need a Personal Brand. You Need an Offer. Visibility and a commercially coherent offer are separate concerns. Lakajev's argument begins with the latter because recognition without willingness to buy does not solve the business problem.

    He treats these buying conditions as interdependent rather than interchangeable. An attractive outcome cannot compensate for an audience that does not recognize the category. Evidence of interest cannot compensate for a payment arrangement the buyer rejects.

    To discover those mismatches, he returns to direct conversation. A post produces limited visible feedback: a reaction, a comment, or silence. A conversation exposes hesitation, confusion, competing priorities, and the language people use when an explanation does not land.

    That feedback changes the offer, not merely its presentation.

    Several apparently similar problems need to be separated:

    • The audience does not understand what kind of service is being sold.
    • The audience understands it but does not actively want it.
    • The promised result is too vague to evaluate.
    • The audience expects someone else to cover the cost.

    Treating all four as a marketing problem encourages the seller to publish more of a message that has not earned its premise. Lakajev instead asks the business to learn what buyers already consider legitimate, desirable, and worth paying for. That work precedes the confident positioning statement.

    Recognition is more specific than an audience label

    Lakajev's definition of niching is not simply making an audience smaller. It is making the right person recognize themselves. The test happens on the buyer's side of the screen, not in the seller's spreadsheet.

    An audience label can be narrow in a database and meaningless in everyday life. His example is a mid-market professional: a classification that may help someone organize a market, but does little to evoke a lived identity.

    A CrossFitter, a gamer, or a creative has a different quality. These labels can connect to activities, habits, language, and relationships. They offer material for communication because the people described participate in something recognizable.

    But a shared activity is only a starting point. Lakajev combines it with location and a particular life stage. A person who has just finished university is not necessarily navigating the same constraints as a new parent, even if both belong to the same professional or recreational community.

    That is how a category becomes a situation.

    His example of CrossFit dads on Sydney's Northern Beaches makes the distinction concrete. The content is no longer about fitness in the abstract. It can address training after little sleep, avoiding injury, and the frustration of not lifting the weights someone once could.

    Those details make a person's circumstances visible. The desired outcome is not merely greater performance. It includes continuing to participate in an activity while living with responsibilities and limitations that have changed.

    Language then becomes evidence that the seller understands the situation. Lakajev points to terms CrossFitters use, including WOD and box. Within his example, those words are not decorative jargon. They are signals that the message belongs to a familiar setting.

    Do introduces an important distinction: whose language is being used?

    A provider can sound sophisticated to colleagues and remain unclear to buyers. Do describes the challenge of titling educational content. An expert's description of sales objections can be less immediately legible than a buyer's desire to get more clients or lose fewer bids.

    The lesson is not to eliminate specialized language everywhere. It is to distinguish the customer's vocabulary from the provider's professional shorthand. Familiarity depends on the person receiving the message.

    The same audience-centered concern gives context to Know your audience. Here, the demand is especially concrete: the business must identify the words its prospective clients already use, rather than assuming its own terminology communicates value.

    Lakajev still leaves room for personal stories. A niche does not require every post to describe the buyer's problem. The provider's experience can make the service more credible or reveal qualities that the audience respects.

    But the seller cannot select an audience as if selecting keywords. The public identity has to be sustainable. A performed personality requires continued maintenance; actual experience gives the business something more durable to communicate.

    The proof was already in the client list

    The strongest practical example begins with a video production business that already had clients. Lakajev describes coaching an operator who worked with a partner, traveled from Newcastle to Sydney, and helped people produce personal-brand videos.

    The service was tangible: shoot days, concepts, edited videos, and assets for social platforms. Its challenge was not an inability to explain the production process. It was deciding whose situation that process should address in public.

    Referrals had brought in different kinds of clients. That variety made an undifferentiated description feel accurate, but it did not give the business an obvious audience for its own content. Lakajev's response was to examine the work already happening.

    The questions were not abstract exercises in imagining an ideal customer. They concerned existing relationships:

    • Which clients had been most successful?
    • Which clients were enjoyable to work with?
    • Where were those clients located?
    • What did those clients want to change?

    According to Lakajev's account, roughly 70 percent of the business came from people in finance, including mortgage brokers and financial planners in Sydney. That concentration supplied a starting point the broad service description had concealed.

    The next distinction concerned readiness. These clients were already posting on Instagram and TikTok. They were not being persuaded that personal-brand content should exist; they wanted to move beyond self-recorded videos toward more professional production.

    That transition made the offer easier to place.

    The prospective buyer could already recognize the activity, had experience with the platforms, and had reached a stage where production quality mattered. The provider's task became helping a particular group make a particular upgrade, not selling every business on the general merits of video.

    This is a useful companion to the broader client-attraction subject of Proven Strategies to Attract Your Ideal Clients. In Lakajev's example, specificity emerges from a pattern in actual work rather than an invented portrait of an attractive market.

    The focus also creates editorial material. The business can address the content concerns of finance professionals, the logistics of filming in Sydney, and the practical shift from informal recordings to organized shoot days. It has real assignments from which to draw examples.

    Importantly, this remains a coaching example, not a documented revenue result. The transcript establishes a clearer positioning direction. It does not establish what the agency earned after adopting it.

    Nor does the new focus require rejecting every other inquiry. Lakajev explicitly separates a public specialty from the decision to accept suitable work outside it. A referred prospect can ask whether the business also handles another kind of assignment.

    The answer can still be yes.

    That flexibility addresses the fear beneath much resistance to niching. The business is choosing what to become known for, not signing away its ability to judge opportunities individually. Its outward message becomes selective without making its commercial decisions automatic.

    Credibility lives in the details nobody advertises

    Identity and language can be identified on paper. Cultural understanding is harder to compress into a positioning exercise because some of its most important signals are not formally stated.

    Lakajev illustrates the problem with shoes. He describes settings where expensive shoes would be unremarkable, then contrasts them with his experience of casual breakfasts on Sydney's Northern Beaches, where people may arrive barefoot.

    The observation is local and personal, not a universal rule about Sydney. Its usefulness lies in the mismatch: a signal intended to communicate success can communicate unfamiliarity when it enters a different setting.

    Professional context creates similar problems. Lakajev imagines a lead-generation provider speaking with a financial planner without acknowledging the constraints surrounding approvals and regulated communication. The prospect does not need to deliver a detailed critique for trust to weaken.

    Something simply feels wrong.

    The business has claimed relevance without demonstrating awareness of an important operating condition. That is different from omitting a fashionable term. It suggests the provider has not considered what working with this client actually entails.

    Do pushes on the practical difficulty. If understanding depends on participation, how does someone enter a market where they do not already belong? Telling an outsider to become an insider is not yet a usable answer.

    Lakajev's response is honesty combined with usefulness. Someone entering a new niche should acknowledge what is new rather than performing fluency they have not earned. That admission gives the other person an accurate basis for the interaction.

    He offers a hypothetical cybersecurity practitioner leaving employment after years in the field. Instead of presenting an inflated business identity, the practitioner can explain the transition, point to relevant experience, and offer a short video identifying issues noticed on a prospective client's website.

    The introduction establishes what is known and what is still being built. The useful observation gives the recipient a reason to engage beyond generosity toward a beginner.

    This requires tolerating rejection. Lakajev does not offer a message that makes every stranger receptive. His point is that a request grounded in something useful has a different character from an attempt to extract attention or opportunity without contributing anything.

    Do reframes the associated free work as an exchange. Experience, a testimonial, or a better understanding of the market can be valuable even when money is not involved.

    “So there's a value exchange,” Do says.

    That distinction also belongs beside Free Work That Actually Pays. The relevant question is not whether an interaction has an invoice. It is whether the contribution creates meaningful value for both parties.

    A newcomer cannot manufacture belonging by copying vocabulary. Participation creates encounters with the inconvenient details: what needs approval, what clients hesitate to publish, and what they assume a competent provider already knows. Those details turn a selected audience into a market the business can credibly serve.

    A positioning framework grounded in actual conversations

    Lakajev's practical framework has two distinct jobs. First, establish whether the offer belongs in the chosen market. Then establish whether the audience can recognize itself in the way that offer is communicated.

    Offer viability comes before audience recognition. Reversing the order produces polished messages for services the intended buyer does not understand, want, or expect to purchase. The framework is most useful as a set of claims to test in conversation, not blanks to fill with confident guesses.

    For viability, Lakajev names four conditions:

    • A category that they buy. The buyer recognizes the kind of service and considers it a legitimate purchase.
    • Latent demand. The intended audience is already looking for the kind of help being offered.
    • The outcome that is promised. The buyer understands what changes when the work succeeds.
    • Payment normalization. Paying for the solution, including who pays, fits the buyer's expectations.

    He describes the relationship as multiplication: if any factor is zero, the equation returns zero. This is his diagnostic model, not a measured law of buyer behavior. Its value is the insistence that a strong element cannot automatically rescue a missing one.

    A compelling outcome does not solve the manager's expectation that an employer should pay. A precise audience label does not solve the father's preference for a different source of support. Each condition demands its own evidence.

    The recognition side begins with three identity decisions: a subculture, a location, and a life stage. These establish who the message addresses and what is happening in that person's circumstances.

    Recognition combines identity, language, and cultural rules. The identity decisions locate the audience. Language and cultural understanding determine whether the business sounds and behaves like a credible participant.

    The working sequence is straightforward:

    • Name a subculture whose members recognize the label themselves.
    • Choose the location that gives the offer a relevant setting.
    • Identify the transition or stage that makes the need timely.
    • Learn the words people actually use to describe their situation.
    • Observe the expectations and constraints that shape how work gets done.

    For an established business, past clients provide a starting point. The video producer did not need to invent a market from scratch. Reviewing successful relationships revealed a concentration of clients, a shared location, and a common transition.

    For someone starting out, the evidence has to be gathered through contact. Useful conversations and modest contributions create opportunities to learn what a polished audience profile leaves out.

    The distinction matters because a framework can create the appearance of certainty faster than experience creates understanding. Lakajev's method depends on returning its answers to real people. If the audience does not recognize the description, the worksheet is not finished simply because every field contains text.

    A believable promise beats an extravagant one

    The final obstacle is the temptation to make the offer more dramatic than the audience can believe. Lakajev describes sellers promising to double business revenue while halving working time. The apparent value is enormous, but the prospect can reject the claim before considering the proposed mechanism.

    The issue is not whether improvement is desirable. It is whether the buyer believes this provider can produce it in this situation.

    Lakajev calls his way of examining that decision the trust utility equation: the perceived likelihood of the outcome multiplied by its value, minus the perceived risk. Again, this is his explanatory model. It is not presented as a validated numerical instrument.

    The useful implication is that increasing the promised reward does not necessarily increase willingness to act. If the claim destroys belief, the larger reward contributes little. The seller has improved the headline while weakening the case.

    A smaller useful interaction can make a more credible advance. It lets the other person observe judgment, relevance, and competence rather than being asked to accept those qualities as assertions.

    Lakajev offers his own account of helping Ali Abdaal with LinkedIn and providing coaching to Abdaal's community without charging. He later asked for an introduction to a podcast. In that account, help preceded the request.

    The story does not establish a guaranteed return on free advice. It shows how a relationship can contain evidence of usefulness before it contains a proposal. The introduction was a possible result of that exchange, not an entitlement created by it.

    The same standard applies to content. A post that explains a specific problem accurately can demonstrate understanding before a sales conversation. A post that makes sweeping promises asks the audience to supply confidence the business has not yet earned.

    For the video producer, credible material already exists in the work: the questions finance clients ask, the decisions made before a shoot, and the difference between recording casually and arranging professional production. Those subjects need less inflation because they come from an actual service relationship.

    The tactical challenge is therefore concrete. A business relying on referrals can inspect its client history, identify a recurring situation, and test whether prospective buyers recognize it. It can clarify the purchase conditions before multiplying its publishing schedule.

    A business entering a new market can stop claiming familiarity and start earning it. Honest introductions, relevant observations, and useful contributions reveal what the audience expects from someone qualified to help.

    Neither route requires rejecting every opportunity outside the chosen niche. Both require making a clear choice about the audience the business will understand well enough to address in public.

    The constraint is not the number of people a business can serve. It is the number of people who can recognize a credible reason to choose it.

    A niche is not a smaller claim to fame. It is a more believable claim to relevance.

    Just a quick note before we continue on today's episode, a warning if you have young kids in the room, this may not be an episode for you. Matt drops a couple F and S bombs in here and there, but he's just who he is. I just want to let you know. And then please enjoy the rest of the episode. He's back, ladies and gentlemen. Matt is back. His previous recording with us, his appearance on The Future, was a big hit. And that's why we invited him back, because he gets real, he gets tactical. He knows a lot about how to grow your business, especially on LinkedIn. My name is Matt Lekaev, and you're listening to The Future. Matt, what are we going to talk about today? Cool. Chris, time to chat again. Always look forward to this as well. So today, I wanted to run through for people something really, really tactical. So you can actually, even if you somehow download the transcript of this, you'll be able to create it into a do -it -yourself document. But how to actually niche down your business in a way so that when you market and produce content, your ideal clients will look at your stuff and think, holy, that's me. And they will want to talk to you. This idea of niching down scares creative people all the time because they think, I'm going to limit the options, the number of people I can speak to. Isn't that a bad idea? This is what they all say. How do you respond to that? Yeah, definitely. I think it's a really common fear that human nature is ingrained in us to actually think. So I think it's not weird to have that fear because you don't want to limit your options because if you limit your options, you would think you would get less. The difficult part about when you're marketing yourself online versus referrals is most businesses build up in soft referrals. But with a referral, when the referral comes to you, all the person's really doing on the call with you is they're doing a weirdo test. They're just saying if you're a weirdo because the trust is already built through the referral. And so they're saying, is this person weird? Do I get along with them and do I think that this person can help me solve the problem? And if so, you get the deal. But what happens over time and years is like you build referrals and then you say yes to clients who are from completely different niches and different areas. And then you don't become a specialist. You kind of become a general. Because the trust is already built through the referral. And so they're saying, is this person weird? Do I get along with them? And do I think that this person can help me solve the problem? And if so, you get the deal. But what happens over time and years is like you build referrals and then you say yes to clients who are from completely different niches and different areas. And then you don't become a specialist. You kind of become a general at all these things, which is really difficult. Now, when you market yourself online, you don't have half an hour to chat to someone in a conversation to build trust so they think that they can understand to buy your stuff. So online, you've got like half a second of like someone's eyeballs to see your stuff. And so that's why I'll run you through like the exact formula of how to niche today. Why if you run through a niching formula itself, you'll actually attract people to you as well. But it is basic human nature that you'll be like, oh my God, whenever I get a lead, this is from a small business scarcity mindset. That when I get a lead, I have to take it because I don't have enough leads. But when you generate so much demand that you can say no to clients, that's the position that you actually want to get in. None of us can be like the people online, like Justin Welsh, a really great dude, but he's a unicorn. He's literally a unicorn. Unicorns don't exist. And so he's like, I sell to solopreneurs to do this. It's such a broad, vague thing of what he actually does. But because he was like the number one first to market person, he can do it. But for all of us people, we have to pick a very specific niche. And the only way to attract people is to signal to them and for them to look at your stuff and think, holy, that's me. I'm going to confess. I watched this show to study human dynamics. I want to put it out there called Updating. I don't know if you've seen this, but it's a blindfold dating show. And it's an interesting format. It's mostly it's a little sexual and a little raunchy here and there. And what amazes me is they have a segment where two blindfolded people decided they want to date each other and a thumbs up and thumbs down. And then they take off the blindfold or do we still have a physical connection? And they say, yes, here's the twist. Some person in the audience, usually a woman, inevitably makes a play for the guy. And then they ask the guy, are you more interested in that person or the person next to you? And then he shows a little bit of hesitation. And then he decides, well, I'm really attracted to her, even though I really I'm attracted to this person's personality, I don't really know you. And in that moment, he fumbles the bag. He loses the hot girl he has and he loses the hot girl over there because she's like, make up your mind. This is just. Are you more interested in that person or the person next to you? And then he shows a little bit of hesitation. And then he decides, well, I'm really attracted to her, even though I'm attracted to this person's personality. I don't really know you. And in that moment, he fumbles the bag. He loses the hot girl he has. And he loses the hot girl over there because she's like, make up your mind. This is just a sample of two people. Imagine if you were to multiply this across a room full of women who are interested in you or a room full of men just to flip the roles here. I kind of feel less than when you say, I'm interested in everybody and you just happen to be here, just a warm body or yours, an open checkbook. And I think that's the problem when you're not niche because you can see the impact. I keep dramatic for TV, YouTube kind of thing, but I'm almost screaming at the screen. Just stick with the one that you got. She's into you. You're into her. And if it doesn't work out, you can play the field again. But now you're going home empty handed. And that's probably what's happening to a lot of people who are marketing. You're not Justin Welch. You're not dominating a market space. And you make the mistake like, well, if they're doing it, why can't I do it? Well, are you first to market? Are you dominating your space? And that's the second part with their logic. It doesn't quite follow through. All right, let's dive deeper into this then. What are we supposed to do? You said there's kind of a framework or way to think about this. Yeah. So I think there's kind of a framework that I've kind of built around this on how to actually think about it. Really, the first thing that you have to think, and this is maybe more for people first starting out, but even for people that actually have built their business of referrals, the first thing you have to figure out is your offer even viable in the market that you want to sell to. I'll give you an example of an offer viability. So my dad is a 59 -year -old panel beater from Sydney's Northern Beaches who's a Christian man. So if you made the perfect nation, you said, I sell to 59 -year -old Christian men from Sydney's Northern Beaches who are panel beaters, and I sell them group therapy. My dad would never buy it because he buys church. That is what he does for that thing as well. But if you tried to sell that to maybe my sister, who's a 28 -year -old English teacher, who's more like progressive, she may actually buy it. So the first thing is, is the offer even viable? Is it even a thing that I can run you through the sequence they would even pay for? Is it even a category that even exists? And so if you don't have this kind of four -step formula in place anyway, number one, you want buy it. So the first thing is, is the offer even viable? Is it even a thing that I can run you through the sequence they would even pay for? Is it even a category that even exists? And so if you don't have this kind of four -step formula in place anyway, number one, you won't be able to sell online because no one actually see it. But also a lot of people build their business off referrals with an offer that's actually not viable in the market. It's only viable because you had conversations with people and they believed you could help them get it, not the actual offer itself. So the offer isn't actually doing anything. Do you think people go into a market kind of blindly thinking their offer, as good as it might seem to them, actually is no good to their prospect? 100%. People think and make guesses. The only way, I wrote an article on this as well. And it's like, excuse my French, but like it's, I wrote the only way to work out your offer is speak to a f*** ton of people. It's the only way. I've worked with like 2000 founders in total, and I've watched the most successful people who kill it. And then the ones who don't. The thing that must occur is you must speak to lots and lots and lots and lots of people. Because when you create content, the only feedback you get is a like and a comment. But when you speak someone in a conversation, you get hundreds of micro feedbacks. And so when you think about teaching kids, I'm watching my brother teaching his newborn kid right now, it's feedback loop, feedback loop. So when you're trying to like create an idea and sell to something or someone, if you don't know the person and you haven't gotten this feedback loop, it doesn't actually matter in the first place. Like you can't chat GPT your way into a niche. It's impossible. You don't know the little micro nuances that are between the different things, which I'll kind of share later. Like what is their identity? What words they use? What culture? What are the rules of the culture that aren't even written rules that actually even exist as well? And so it can't actually, I think it cannot occur unless you actually speak to lots and lots of people. And so I think that's like, that becomes like more of an impossibility standpoint. So it's a lot of assumptions and then they go forward and they don't know why it works. What is that? What is the solution? What do we do next? So the first few things like just around offer viability is when you're selling something, you have to pick a category that is a thing. Let's talk about 30 years ago, coaching wasn't even a thing, but it is now. Coaching is a thing. But if you try to sell coaching works? What is that? What is the solution? What do we do next? So the first few things like just around offer viability is when you're selling something, you have to pick a category that is a thing. Let's talk about 30 years ago, coaching wasn't even a thing, but it is now. Coaching is a thing. But if you try to sell coaching to my 57 -year -old father -in -law, to him, it's not a thing. Doctors, accountants, and lawyers are a thing. And so you've got to pick a category that this person actually buys. The second part is you have to pick something that actually has what's called latent demand. Are people searching for this online to get it? It then has to have an outcome of what are you going to get if you do the thing? It has to have an endpoint. And then it has to have payment normalization. It has to be normal to pay it. So a really classic thing I say here is when someone tries to sell leadership coaching or they try to sell coaching to managers. So there's a big problem in organizations where a manager gets promoted, they don't know how to manage. But the problem is that a manager is not going to pay for their own coaching because that's the job of the company. So someone's creating an offer that that's the company's job to pay for. Kind of like in Australia, healthcare is free. It's actually free. And then they brought out $80 to see the doctor. Everyone went crazy. But when I went over to the US and I had to get my ears unplugged because I stuck a thing down and it clogged the wax on my ears so I couldn't hear. It was like $500 US dollars, which is like a million Australian dollars. And I was like, whoa, what am I doing this for? So there's kind of these four things that must occur in a formula. But if any of these things are zero, then the offer isn't viable in the first place. So you have to tick off these things one by one. So the four are category that they buy. There's latent demand, the outcome that you promise, and then payment normalization. Now, one of the things that you had mentioned during the latent demand part is a lot of us talk inside baseball. That's a term when we use language only the people in our space use. And it's a dangerous thing. I'll tell you the most practical application of this, which is when we go to title a YouTube video, we know what it's called. My editors know what it's called. But everybody who needs this help does not know what it's called. So you say how to overcome the people in our space use and it's a dangerous thing. I'll tell you the most practical application of this, which is when we go to title a YouTube video, we know what it's called. My editors know what it's called, but everybody who needs this help does not know what it's called. So you say how to overcome sales objections in the buy -sell cycle, nobody's typing that in. Get more clients, that's what they want. Lose fewer jobs, they understand that. Or lose fewer bids, those kinds of things they understand. So it's one of these things that's like the curse of knowledge that we have. It's a cognitive bias that we forget that we used to struggle with this concept. So we have to bring ourselves back to that place in which your prospect, the person's ultimately going to buy your services. What are they thinking? What's the language they're using? We're messing this up in so many different ways, everybody. So where do we go from here? That's the first part is offer viability. Now, in order to find out if your offer is viable, you have to do it by talking to people. Like, and so it is an impossibility. Picking a niche, knowing if an offer is even viable, it only exists through certain market research. And there's different ways to kind of shortcut that, but you can't chat GBT your way into a niche. It's actually impossible. But like, if we're looking offer viability, you've got to make sure that in that equation, offer viability equals category, demand, category, outcome, and then payment normalization. But they're all a time. So this times, this times, this. But if any of them is zero, the equation goes to zero. So it has to be correct, but only happens through talking to people. We're applying the rules of math here. Any number times zero is zero. It doesn't matter. It's 3 billion times zero is still zero. So you can't score zero on anything. Can't at all. Because otherwise it just breaks the formula. So everything must occur within that. Then I'd go down like the niching part past this point, but that's like the most important where people get wrong, where I'll give you an example of what is considered outsider. So these shoes, they're like Louis Vuitton shoes. No, I did not buy them myself. My father -in -law has the same foot and he loves shoes and he bought them for me. And so in certain certain settings, it's okay to wear these shoes to breakfast. It's fine in certain countries, in certain cities. But where I come from in Sydney's Northern beaches, people go to breakfast with no shoes. The only way to know that is you have to experience it and be there in order to actually know that. But if you went in Sydney's Northern beaches to meet someone in a meeting and you wore nice shoes to breakfast. So I did see what a resource that comes to where you wanted me to show them to my certain countries and certain cities. But where I come from in Sydney's Northern Beaches, people go to breakfast with no shoes. The only way to know that is you have to experience it and be there in order to actually know that. But if you went in Sydney's Northern Beaches to meet someone in a meeting and you wore nice shoes to breakfast, that's an immediate distrust because you haven't assimilated into that culture of that micro culture of the local area. And so in order for offer viability to exist and for you to unravel what's actually happening to actually create the equation itself, those things must be present for that ideal client you want to sell to. So you could even pick the perfect offer viability from target market and market research. But if you break a single thing in the next part, there's zero trust and everything is destroyed. Let's go there. Cool. So the next part of the equation comes around what I think niching truly is, I think it's recognition. So I think the KPI of getting your niche correct is when someone looks at your stuff and they think in their mind, holy shit, that's me. Now, when I'm thinking about niching, I think it's a cross -section of three different things that you want to get to get a niche really, really correct. The first is identity. What identities like are you? The second is what's the language or the words that you actually use? And the third is the cultural rules. I understand so far. What do we do next? So next up is we need to talk about the first thing to label as identities. And I'll run you through the three different types of identities that you need to label. The first one is you need to choose the subculture that you are selling to. The subculture. And there's very specific rules here to abide by. Now, a subculture could be a CrossFitter. A creative is a subculture. I got a good friend, Laura Higgins, who she works with creatives, similar to yourself. So creatives is a subculture as well. There's different subcultures of different areas. Like people do run clubs. That's a subculture. People paint Warhammer. I used to do that in high school. That's a subculture. Gamers. So you need to pick a subculture to market to. Now, an example of something that's not a subculture is a mid -market professional. And so it needs to be a label where if someone sees that, they recognize themselves. culture. People paint Warhammer. I used to do that in high school. That's a subculture. Gamers. So you need to pick a subculture to market to. Now, an example of something that's not a subculture is a mid -market professional. And so it needs to be a label where if someone sees that, they recognize themselves in the label of the subculture. The second thing is, is you need a location that you're selling to. Because if I run a sales process and I try to sell someone who's German, Australian, Indian, Singapore, Japan, UK, US, everyone's completely different. Completely different cultures. And so it's why local businesses, they already niche themselves down by a location. They force themselves in a location so they get to know people. So they don't have to worry about someone thinking, is this for me? People just go there. The third one is you need to sell to someone at a certain stage of their life. Where are they at? So what is the thing that they're going through? So someone may really hate their job. Someone may be a new parent. They might have just finished university. What are they going through right now that creates the transition of like, who do I actually sell to? So it's picking one subculture, which is number one, picking one location, and then picking one stage of life. So when you're marketing online, you need this unique combination so that people see your content and they recognize themselves in you, in your stuff. And they think, holy shit, that's for me. Okay. What do we do next? Do we do language or do we do cultural rules? Language. The overarching theme of this is like, the goal is to, for someone to see your stuff so they can consume more of it and trust you more before they even talk to you. So you really want to be like recognized. Now people can pick niches, which is fine. You can use this formula, but there's specific language and words that each of the niches use as well. And so when you're going towards the language that people use, for example, a CrossFitter says the word WOD, which means work out of the day. They say AMRAP, which means as many rounds as possible. They say BOX, which means gym. And so in order, when you're communicating your content, you need to be using the language. And so when you're going towards the language that people use, for example, a crossfitter says the word WOD, which means work out of the day. They say AMRAP, which means as many rounds as possible. They say BOX, which means gym. And so in order when you're communicating your content, you need to be using the language that these three types of avatars, or I call them three unique identities fitting into your avatar, these three people actually say. And then you're adding a unique combination of these words that these people, when they see the words, they'll know that you're an insider into their community. So then when they read the words that you write, they're going to think to themselves, these are words that I use every day. And when you're consuming content, you want to consume stuff that you recognize and you resonate with. And so when you get the language correct, it means that when you write content, if you use words CrossFitters use, people in Northern Beaches use, and then say dads use, it will then push that content to that person in the algorithm. And even if it's really badly written content, like some of our clients write just straight AI content. But because it's so familiar and it's exactly for them, they feel like it's like this was written for me. So there's a couple of different components here. And the thing that I'm trying to wrap my head around is the first part is the avatar that you're speaking to or the identity you're speaking to. It's not your identity, it's their identity. The language, is it the language that those people use or the language that you use that then bring them in? You want to say the words that they're thinking in their head and they're already saying, but you want to add the spin of your own story within that. Of like, how can you be within that? So when you're talking about marketing, like if I'm marketing to CrossFit dads in Northern Beaches, they care about being able to train and not get injured, or they care about how do I keep training even though I had five hours of sleep and I still can't lift the weights that I used to lift. And so I'm just, I actually just want to be doing this because I want to be like Grant over there, who's a 60 year old in the gym, who's not injured, who's doing muscle ups. But at the same time, not every piece of content has to be about them. It should be about like you and your life and then what you're doing. That's something that's aspirational around like, you know, what's something that makes people respect you? know, I've gotten leads from just personal story posts. You probably, everyone does. It's like, because they're seeing a unique combination of these things, but. At the same time, not every piece of content has to be about them. It should be about like you and your life and then what you're doing. That's something that's aspirational around like, you know, what's something that makes people respect you. know, I've gotten leads from just personal story posts. You probably, everyone does. It's like, because they're seeing a unique combination of these things, but you can't just pick the niche. You've got to be someone that the niche would want to buy from. We have to be the person that this person would believe. I guess I'm trying to figure this thing out with how much of you can you show up as while still maintaining credibility or believability? So what is your guidance on this? Yeah. So give advice people on this, because I think there's certain levels of what people are open to be sharing on social media as well. You want to be sharing what you actually feel comfortable with sharing. And then if you just don't be yourself, then you will be inconsistent. Authenticity is very hard to fake forever. It's like you can be yourself forever. But if you do authenticity, it's like you're wearing a mask, but you're holding it up. Eventually your hand will get tired that it will actually drop. Very cool. Let's get to the third one, the cultural rules. I think the cultural rules is the hardest because cultural rules are not written down. There's no written document on Sydney's Northern beaches that says you can go to breakfast with no shoes on. The only way to understand the culture is to be there. You could pick the perfect niche, the perfect language, the perfect viable offer. But if you get on a call and you're a lead gen agency and you speak to a financial planner and you don't mention the fact that they have really strict regulations within their culture and how they have to get things signed off, et cetera, et cetera, they won't think this person didn't mention that. They will just think something's off. As we go around this wheel, this overlapping Venn diagram, I suppose, it started really concrete, starting to get a little bit more abstract here as you're talking about cultural rules, but they're not written down. You can't even articulate them. And the only solution is to be there. For a lot of people, that's not possible. So what now then? Can you give me a situation where someone's at? Sure. Let's use one of the more common identities. It's a person who makes videos. They go on site, they shoot videos, multicam shoot, 4K, high production, high value, and they edit and deliver you assets, whether it's a mid to long form videos and cut downs for social. That's what they do. I just. Sure. Let's use one of the more common identities. It's a person who makes videos. They go on site, they shoot videos, multicam, shoot 4K, high production, high value, and they edit and deliver you assets. Whether it's a mid to long form videos and cut downs for social, that's what they do. I just, I had a guy on the coaching call the other day who does his exact thing so I can run you through what I told him. That's fine. So he has a personal brand content creation agency, which does videos. He does like shoot days with people so they can post. He's in Newcastle in Sydney, but he works with clients in Sydney. He's been growing his business and he's grown it from referrals for a period of time because he's good at what he does. And he has my friend, Laura Higgins as a client. And I know that she's spoken highly of him without me even knowing who he is as well. Now, the issue that he was in with, which he does it with his partner is because he's grown his business from referrals. He wants to start marketing himself online, but he's worked with many, many different avatars, which makes it really difficult. So we had to drill down what is the avatar that he's going to work with and who's he going to position himself to be targeting online again. And there's a fear around if I have an existing business that if I do niche down, I'll lose things and I'll disprove that as well at the same time. So I walked him through, I was like, first, okay, let's go back in time. Where are your most successful clients right now? What niche are they in? And we just walk through who they are. Who do you like working with? Who do you like? Who do you enjoy working with? Where were they located? Where did they come from? And what we worked out was about 70 % of his business came from people in finance. So a mortgage broker, financial planner in Sydney. And so I was like, okay, cool. And what do these people want to do? Where are they at? He's like, well, they're posting on Instagram. Usually we're doing Instagram and TikTok. They're posting on there, but they want to take their content up a level because there's a lot of financial planners posting content now. It's actually a big thing that's happening. And he's like, they're on Instagram and TikTok and they now want to actually get professional with their videos because they're doing selfie videos. They've got some traction and all that kind of stuff. And now they want to go like professional. And so they want professional videos. And I said, do you post the content for them? No. How does it work? We do a shoot day every two weeks to two months. We do like 20 or X amount of videos. We help them craft the concepts and stuff. And I was like, cool. Well, your niche then can just be people in finance in Sydney who are actually at that stage where. videos. And I said, do you post the content for them? No. How does it work? We do a shoot day every two weeks to two months. We do like 20 or X amount of videos. We help them craft the concepts and stuff. And I was like, cool. Well, your niche then can just be people in finance in Sydney who are actually at that stage where they're posting a bit, but they want to look to go professional and they actually want to do a shoot day. Primarily more business owners as well. But if you're a financial planner, you also get commission. So a lot of people who are in a financial planning job, like a real estate agent, they'll do it themselves for their own marketing as well. And so for him, that gives him a thing that he can speak to online now because he can then communicate to people. What are the things that these financial people can and can't do on social media? Obviously they can't talk about numbers as much. How do I position case studies? Cause I can't break these things. The lingo of Sydney, Harbor bridge, where to film what's like, what's a new restaurant that's opened up. And then people who are already bought into personal branding being a thing. And they're posting on Instagram and Tik TOK as their primary platform. And so now for him, he can use that. And then he's looked back in time from the data set. Now, the key thing that people most get scared of is they're like, okay, if I start positioning this online, well, aren't I going to reject people? So the first question I usually ask is, have you gotten anyone from online? And they say, no. And it's like, cool, cool. We're starting from a basis of zero to start off with. And then I say, look, when you do that and you position as an expert who does something online and you are the best at the thing, you will get people from other industries and other things reach out to you because like you're the best there. And so for me, I'm similar to you. I coach people with usually less than five employees, et cetera, et cetera. I've had clients from like massive businesses on massive boards reach out to me and they're like, we've seen what you're doing here. Can we pay you 50, 100 grand to like coach our executive team? Usually actually just say no, because like I don't have time, but like they will come to you because you become known. So you've got to become known as the thing, but you can still accept the referrals because if someone reaches out to you, whatever, Hey, I saw you only do this. Do you do this too? And you just say, actually I do. And so you just like open up into it, but then he's going to become him and his wife. Cause their husband, I think husband, wife or girlfriend, boyfriend duo. Now they can create content. That's going to talk about the issues these people in finance have, what the issues are in Sydney and what the issues are with building your personal brand, Instagram and TikTok, which creates unique content. actually, I do. And so you just like open up into it. But then he's going to become him and his wife because their husband, I think it's husband and wife or girlfriend, boyfriend duo. Now they can create content that's going to talk about the issues these people in finance have, what the issues are in Sydney, and what the issues are with building your personal brand, Instagram and TikTok, which creates unique content. And then they can talk about the stuff that they're actually doing right now on the shoot days. And they have case studies and they have all this kind of stuff. And so that was actually really easy. And so he was the person that I used as an example in a live workshop that I did. This was totally coincidental as well, where I spent 30 minutes coaching him live in front of everyone else. And he's like, oh, fuck this. Now I know what my issues kind of thing. And so it just becomes easy because now when someone goes online and they're looking at LinkedIn and looking at his content, there's no other option. There's other videographers that do personal brand, but there's no one that does finance people in Sydney who are on TikTok and Instagram who want to get cropped. When you've got a job to do, Lowe's knows how to help you keep it moving. My Lowe's Pro Rewards members save more with member volume discounts on eligible orders through a quote of $2 ,000 or more. Plus save time with job site delivery on select purchases. Not a member? Join for free today. Exclusions, more terms and restrictions apply. Can't be combined with any other discount, including but not limited to contract and or special pricing. Loyalty program subject to terms and conditions. Details at Lowe's .com slash terms. Subject to change. What happened to the cultural rules and the language and the words and the believability part? So identity is the first thing to do. Yep. Which we got. That was clear. Now for him, when we're talking about language, for him, it's easy because he's already speaking the language because he's already working with the people. So he already understands the language because he's immersing in the concept. And for him, he lives in Newcastle. He travels down to Sydney. He understands the cultural rules of Sydney. He understands the cultural rules of doing personal brand. And he also now understands the cultural rules of financial planners because he started working with that niche and he's understood the concepts of the niche itself. Once you have the identities completed into the Venn diagram, like who you're going after, then it comes into how do I actively use the language? And as I'm immersing myself into the culture, the culture is the unwritten rules, but the culture is like the big thing with if people don't have a niche and they start reaching out to people, you've just got to be honest with people and say, you're just starting because then they will realize that you don't understand the cultural rules. So then that's okay. And then you say, I'm learning about it. And as I'm immersing myself into the culture, the culture is the unwritten rules, but the culture is like the big thing with, if you don't have a niche and they start reaching out to people, you've just got to be honest with people and say, you're just starting because then they will realize that you don't understand the cultural rules. So then that's okay. And then you say, I'm learning about it. And then it's actually fine. But if you go in there and being like, I just assume I know everything, then people will like, this feels a bit off. Like I don't actually know. So the challenge is if you don't understand your market, even if you can identify a niche to go down, because you're not there, you're not present, you're not listening in, you don't have access to that. What can you do? You have to speak to people and you have to offer to be useful and offer to help them. So you have to reach out to people. Like I tell clients this all the time. Like, how do you reach out? and say, Hey, I know this is a bit weird. I'm actually just starting my business. I've been in cybersecurity for the past eight years and I'm looking to exit my role. I've worked with these types of companies in my job and I'm wanting to help people like you. I looked at your website. I saw that there's these things. Would you be open if I sent you a three minute loom video just to explain to you what the issues are? Just be honest with people and you have to go through a series of rejections. Of course you do, but you have to be useful to the person because unless you're useful, if you're trying to extract, nothing will happen. So you have to just be useful and do something for free. And I think there's this big hesitation around free stuff as well. But like, we're not getting paid for this podcast. We obviously know that by giving this value to people, it's going to create something in return. Most likely we couldn't probably track where it's going to come from, but like YouTube creators create so much free content. I want to briefly mention something. I'm not opposed to people doing free work because it's not really free work. You're exchanging it for experience, a testimony, or there's something there. So there's a value exchange. So you give them something valuable. They give you something that's valuable. And what's valuable to you right now is something called experience. So I think sales is about building trust. I want to build trust with people through different interactions. And I think about the trust utility equation. That's my thought process around it. So trust utility equals, it's just the perceived likelihood that the outcome will happen. So that's part of the equation times the value minus the risk of what can occur. interactions. And I think about the trust utility equation. That's my thought process around it. So trust utility equals, it's just the perceived likelihood that the outcome will happen. So that's part of the equation times the value minus the risk of what can occur. So I think whenever we make decisions subconsciously, we're weighing this equation up. Is it even going to happen? What do I get from it? And what's the risk if I don't do it? At the same time. So like a huge issue, right? Having online right now, right? If you use this equation is everybody watched $100 million offers and it's amazing book, but everybody reads that and thinks they need the craziest, biggest offer of all time to get clients. And so what they do is they make a big, big promise and they say, I will get you, I'll double your business revenue in six months and I'll half the time you're working. So if we look at the perceived likelihood, the outcome will happen. Zero. You read it and you're like, there's no way. This is impossible. This is not even a thing. And so zero times a million value is still zero as well. And so in each process of the sales process, but everything we do, we need to make sure it aligns up so that the person feels safe in taking action, which I call the trust utility equation. So they want to take action to actually do it. And I've found that you can fit most things within them. Every podcast I've ever got on, I've cold DMed, but I've spent like the 505 podcast, which I'm going in next week. I spent long time researching and then I used a mutual connection, Ali Abdaal. And I only got onto Ali Abdaal because I got on a call with him, helped him for LinkedIn for free for an hour and coaches community for free for an hour. And I asked for nothing, nothing. And he was like, thank you. And I said, can I just get an intro to this podcast? And he's like, I'd be happy to do it. Send me the pitch. And I spent a long time grafting the pitch, but you can do it, but it has to be coming from a sense of being useful as well. Cause like, if you don't do that, then it's like, people are going to just be like, you're just trying to take from me. And like, no one wants to be taken from. I want to land the plane on this whole trust utility equation. You said, be useful. And I asked you, and I think you gave us a very meta answer. You're like, well, let's take example, the thing that I'm doing with you today. I'm thinking about the people I want to reach will be useful for them. They don't have enough leads, but they do need is clarity on who they're selling to. So you shared with us your framework and you talked about the importance of language and whether or not. Give us a very meta answer. You're like, well, let's take example, the thing that I'm doing with you today. I'm thinking about the people I want to reach, what would be useful for them. They don't have enough leads. What they do need is clarity on who they're selling to. So you shared with us your framework and you talked about the importance of language and whether or not in that world, can you be credible or believable? And then you have to learn the cultural norms of the rules so that they don't feel like you're an outsider and you're breaking all norms that then erode trust. So you've thought about today's conversation to try to deliver as much value as you can. So everybody will have to listen back from the beginning to see if that premise was met or not. That's what you're talking about. You understand the needs of the person that you're talking to, their pain points and their challenges, what's a win, what's a loss, and you're going to do your very best in as many ways as you can, whether it's conversations, DMs, content, or content like this that's distributed to many people. I get it. That was a useful answer. Thank you. No problem. Good to share it. Matt, this is episode two. And if you've made it to the very end and now you're really intrigued, I want to remind you all to go check out and listen to episode one, where Matt goes really deep on other things that you need to know if you want to excel and grow and get clients from LinkedIn. And Matt, if people want to find more about you, where do they go? Where do we send them? So first place is just go to my LinkedIn and then just click on that. Look at my content there. Second place is YouTube. So I'm going live every single day now, teaching things every day for free. So you can just go there completely for free. And then we also run a program called Six Figure Creators, which is essentially it's a LinkedIn marketing gym. So we run calls every single day, especially during challenges, super active. And the entire goal is to help you make as much money as you possibly can using LinkedIn as a platform to market yourself. And we have like a leaderboard and a tally thing on just seeing how much money you make. So we're gamifying it and we add rankings and all that kind of stuff because we just want to make it fun because marketing is hard and you want to, you got to do it with other people. Okay. And the name of the YouTube channel? It's just my name, Matt Lakayev. You're going to have to look at the spelling guys. Every time I look at your last name, I'm like, Hey, I just said Matt. that's all I can say because the way you say it versus how it's spelled is a little bit different. Okay. We'll provide the links to everybody. All right, Matt, super awesome to have you. Thank you very much for doing this with me again. I enjoyed our conversation. Best of luck to you. And. Look at the spelling, guys. Every time I look at your last name, I'm like, hey, I just say Matt. That's all I can say. Because the way you say it versus how it's spelled is a little bit different. Okay, we'll provide the links to everybody. All right, Matt, super awesome to have you. Thank you very much for doing this with me again. I enjoyed our conversation. Best of luck to you. And I look forward to talking to you maybe a third time on something else. Appreciate it.
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