Creating Demand: Sell Out Every Time!

[Music] foreign everybody in case you're just tuning in Welcome Back to the Future podcast and my guess is no stranger to this channel you've seen them on YouTube you've listened to his podcast we've been very fortunate to bring him back it's Daniel Priestley and here's the weird thing since the last time we've had this episode Daniel and I have been globetrotting and running into each other in lots of different places now that's going to make sense in a little bit but as I'm reading his book over subscribe which is what we're going to be talking about today it clicks it totally clicks and I'm gonna I'm just gonna testify right now one of the ideas that Daniel talks about an over subscribed is this idea of 7-Eleven and I believe four yeah did I get that right 7-Eleven yeah seven it takes about uh seven hours of being around someone where you start to move away from strangers into friends according to a study that Daniel cites and then according to a different study by Google he says it takes about 11 points of interaction or touch points for someone to potentially buy from you that's pretty significant in itself and he shared this last time with when we were discussing key person of influence but then in oversubscribe he adds another variable the four where we feel like if we see someone in four different places there's something that happens and that's why I bring up at the beginning of this conversation I've seen Daniel now first on Zoom as we're talking maybe I've seen you as I read the book okay I didn't really see you but I got a sense of Who You Are and then I met up with you in the UK in London yeah and then we went to Amsterdam Amsterdam yeah and then we went to Dubai yeah and then I saw you in Newcastle oh my God I think Daniel's stalking me or something we have 7-Eleven for each other we have and here's the thing here's the thing I want to point out and then we're going to turn over the show over to Daniel which is now when I see Daniel he's not the guy who wrote the book He's not the guy with curly crazy wavy hair that is just I want to run my fingers through he's the guy when I see him my my face lights up like yo Daniel Priestley what is up what is up and I never feel like even though we haven't spent a zillion hours together I feel like I know you I like you I trust you like we're not friends and like we're not attending each other's bachelor's party or something but we're in a different category yeah we're in the yeah we're in the friend zone so Daniel just to jump in on on is kind of cold what is happening to me psychologically emotionally when I'm spending this much time with this many points of interaction with you well this is so interesting if you're a marketer because this really goes back to a few different research studies that triangulate around the same idea so research study number one is Professor Robin Dunbar and Robin Dunbar is a professor in why people fall in love why people Bond why people feel connected and he invented these things which are called dunbar's numbers and they are think of them as like circles friendship circles or um associate circles and he basically says you've got five people who are in the close family Circle 15 people who are in the really really close Friendship Circle and then it goes out to about 50 I think and then 150 and then 500 and then 1500 and once you get out to 1500 you're really in a category of people that you can put a name and a face to you know one or two things about them and that includes people like celebrities uh so you might say oh yeah Elton John I know uh you know what songs he sings and I would recognize his name and his face and you know so he'd probably be in the top 1500 especially if you've you know recently seen him on television or something like that so our brains essentially only have a certain limited amount of space for remembering names and faces and facts and figures about people if you want to sell to someone if you want to be in in their Circle you've got to clock up a certain amount of time and interaction so Professor Robert Dunbar he basically says you got to spend about seven hours with someone before you're in that trusted Circle that trusted sphere and one way to accelerate this in one of the studies was about being in multiple locations and they did a thing where they took people into four different locations I think if I remember correctly the study was two people sitting down and talking to each other for 20 minutes versus two people who had to move around four different locations and the people who moved in four locations had a heightened sense of bonding and one of the implications and I have actually tested this I'm not a professor but I'm anecdotally gonna say that I've tested this if someone is connected with you on LinkedIn Instagram Twitter and Facebook they somehow feel a lot more connected than if they're just connected on one platform even if you see the same amount of posts if you see them on multiple locations it somehow feels more significant um so so that's dunbar's numbers Google's did it a different way Google were a little bit sneaky they said okay let's have a look at what people buy then let's go into their browser history and let's have a look at what they were looking at in the lead up to a sale so if you imagine someone's buying a handbag and they're basically they've bought it on this day when you go and look through the history they've had 10.7 interactions with handbag related information and it seems significant to Google that you can't just simply say oh I want this thing I'm gonna just go and buy it you have to stalk it like an animal and you've got to creep up on it and you've got to sniff it and you got to get close to it and by the time you've had 10.7 interactions in the lead up then you're ready to pounce on it so uh essentially that's how we buy stuff so when you know this you can sell more stuff because you can help people to go through their 7-Eleven for Journey their seven hours 11 interactions four locations that's why some of my fans already pounce on me you've explained the whole phenomenon Daniel when I see them like Chris come here I'm like uh am I being stalked like an animal right now yes right use 7-Eleven for them it's weird right because you see them in the hotel foyer and you go I don't know that person but they see you and they go oh I've spent hours with this guy and uh their brain because brains don't know it's digital we don't know we just don't know the difference between digital and analog we just go oh yeah it's all the same the same reason we get upset when somebody passes away who's famous and we never met them but we feel like we know them Brains Brains aren't really evolved to know the difference between digital and real life so um yeah it's true 7-Eleven Ford millions of people [Laughter] you know there's Neuroscience that supports what Daniel's saying it's not just one man's opinion because I've interviewed other experts who talk about that your brain can't tell the difference between a dream and real life so if you rehearse a golf swing for example in your dream and a lot of coaches help their clients do this to visualize and continue to do the swing over and over again their their actual golf score increases or decreases depending on how you look at it they improve and so you're saying also like as we're watching a piece of content our brains can't tell like that's a two-dimensional image right now versus you and me absolutely sitting in a cafe talking I'm connecting with you it's a different experience but the way we record it feels familiar to us yeah I mean do you remember what it felt like when Prince died and you heard that you heard that Prince had passed away and it's like ah what you know it's like that's you know you feel this like thud on your chest we've never spent time with Prince Right but it feels it feels like a loss yes the same thing happened when Steve Jobs passed away thousands of people around the world mourned you never talked to Steve you didn't even share the same room but people were like doing vigils outside of Apple Source which is a strange place to do one and they were emotionally impacted people cried and they felt a deep emotional connection okay so this all sounds great if you want to be a celebrity or a famous person but there are practical business applications to this why don't we just jump into the book okay there's been a concept that you shared with with everybody who reads the book which is this is it doesn't take a gigantic amount of people for you to reach a state of being over subscribed before we get into that what does over subscribe mean and how is this concept relevant to anybody who is in a marketing space okay if you're in the marketing space you've forgotten lesson 101 of microeconomics right I have and the reason I'm saying that I have right but here's the here's lesson one of microeconomics demand and Supply sets the price and demand and Supply creates profit so it's an imbalance between demand and Supply so think about an oversubscribed business is a business that has limited or constrained Supply and there are more people who want that Supply than is available so pretty simple it's a hot day there's lots of people out in the in the park there's one little ice cream van and it's got a limited amount of ice cream they are not doing discounts on that day right because there are plenty of people lining up to do you know to buy the ice cream so there's constrained Supply and there's excess demand so what we forget in the digital world and what we forget when we're marketers and we're creatives is we forget that it's a simple simple game that demand and Supply set the price and demand and Supply set profit let me just give you a little example if there was a profit God sitting up on the cloud handing out profit fairly and the profit God says I'm going to give profit to the companies that take the most risk that have the most on the line that have to get everything right they probably would give profit to Airlines they would say well if you're an airline you've got to be safe you've got to be have amazing customer service massive capital expenditure huge risks uh Innovation all this sort of stuff and it would be fair that Airlines should make 50 60 70 profit because of all the things that have to go right in order to run an airline but they don't they make like five percent um if the profit gods were Fair they would say no profit for Rolex watches because Rolex Watchers haven't really innovated in 50 years and Rolex Watchers don't do customer service very well and Rolex watches uh like a simple device that nobody actually needs anymore so we should definitely not have profit for Rolex watches but what happens in reality what happens is Rolex is massively profitable and airlines are not and why because Rolex constrain Supply and has an 18-month waiting list and Airlines have plenty of supply and they're fighting to try and get people to take the seats because those planes have to fly every day anyway so um essentially this is the principle and the principle that needs to be applied if you're a creative is you need to create an official capacity where that is your official number you need other people to know that that's the official number and you need to let other people know that that official capacity is in hot demand that there are plenty of people who want to buy from you that there's a waiting list and the demand and Supply tension is Rife hmm okay so somebody's gonna be listening to this uh yeah genius applying domain I get it you want to have greater demand and Supply but how do we apply this in the real world in the book you write about this and that you produce many events before and then there's one thing that you cited where you you were just thinking about doing a workshop in London or wherever and then you just floated the idea and you said you know unless we sell this a number of tickets we're not going to do it how you got people to be in this over subscribe State can you walk us through that so then people can understand how this works so in that example I wanted to run a workshop and the workshop tickets we wanted to sell the tickets out and we wanted to sell I don't know it was about 100 tickets I think and if we had a rang through and tried to sell the tickets over the phone or if we had sent out an email and said the tickets are available by the tickets then it probably wouldn't have been able to easily sell those tickets but here's what we did instead instead of just trying to sell the tickets we first sent out an email through our partners and through our own database and said we're going to be running an event the tickets are going to be on going on sale next week and the only way to get those tickets is to join a Facebook group that will be the discussion group in the lead up to the event and that's where we're going to drop the tickets now we'd told people there was only going to be 100 tickets and when we emailed all the databases they all joined the Facebook group and hundreds of people joined the Facebook group so there was something called demand and Supply tension created and it was uh transparency so this is a this is one of the principles in the book called uh transparency of demand and Supply tension basically transparency is anytime the market can see that you're oversubscribed they can see that there is a lot of a lineup they can see people want to want to buy from you so what happened is that people could see that three four five hundred people had joined the group in order to get tickets but there was only going to be 100 tickets so when those tickets went on sale they got snapped up within like 20 minutes and that was leveraging demand and Supply tension uh in with transparency you've explained a concept that we're all familiar with when there's a cue for a movie a restaurant or in in my case sometimes to go into a luxury store like luxury goods I'm like what the heck is happening here you're going to make people have money who are important weight like you can't have what it is that you want so it creates that tension that you're talking about and you can literally see with your eyes a line in front or a 40 minute a two-hour cue or a two-month waiting list yep and this is an important concept so you've introduced a concept for anybody who's like well how do I create a line for my my business it's not so easy you're saying there's a kind of a pre-staging area where you can see quite literally how many other people are going to be active customers so you can see the line so to speak in a virtual way in a Facebook group that way when the tickets actually do go on sale you can see that they're three times as many people in this room who are interested in buying to every one ticket so therefore when you announce they're going to have to pound so they're going to lose their opportunity which is incredible one of the key ideas that we talk about in the book is the idea of marketing for signals for first and then sales so first signals then sales and there's a whole chapter called uh market for signals nod sales and what we're trying to do here is what most businesses do is they go out to try and get the sale what we're going to do is we're going to just go out to get excess signals so once we know official capacity let's say your official capacity is 30 clients who can pay 60 Grand right so that's your official capacity so rather than go out and trying to find 30 clients who can pay 60 Grand we're going to go out and try and get people to Signal interest in being one of those 30 clients and we're going to go signal collecting first so we're going to maybe approach companies and say in 2024 right the year ahead we're going to be um taking on about 30 clients and what we're doing is just getting some soft interest in what projects you might be interested in if if you're interested at all at the moment we're not taking on new clients or we're not taking on projects but we're just wanting to make contact with the market and just sort of start organizing Rising our year ahead so that we can deliver the most value to people would you be interested in applying or would you be interested in just filling in a survey or would you be interested in completing an online scorecard or would you be interested in attending a mini event that we're going to be running anything at all that is a signal some of the classic signals is to attend a workshop so attending a workshop means it's a signal of Interest filling in a survey or a scorecard joining a WhatsApp group or a Facebook group or a LinkedIn group joining a virtual waiting list or a waiting list of any sort so these are all signal collecting campaigns so first signals then sales and the most incredible example of this was when Elon Musk did cyber truck and he basically puts a cyber truck there's only one example on the stage and he says we're going to do this in three years from now uh we haven't even built the factory but if you want one you're gonna have to put down a hundred dollar deposit a million people put down 100 deposit and they were then able to go to I think it was JP Morgan and raise all the money that they needed for the factory and all that sort of stuff so first they marketed for signals long before they wanted sales in that case that that seems pretty clear like to be put on a waitlist since less and less people I know are using Facebook groups what is the the 2023 version of getting people pulled together in their space and saying we're ready to purchase so they can see each other do you have any modern interpretations on how to do this so what type of group look well um and actually I've seen some WhatsApp groups for some extremely high net worth individuals the other one that it's not necessarily a group but scorecards right so you and I we've been exploring scorecards and how they work and people can't necessarily see how many other people have filled in a scorecard but they can get a sense that there is a process and there is also something that's created that I call with or without you energy so when you get to about five times over subscribed you end up with this magical special quality called um with or without your energy or I mean I guess it's called kutzpur or like you've got this confidence about you so With or Without You energy what I mean by that is that I'm going to be fine with or without you right so I don't need you anymore uh I'm I have with or without you energy and when we let's say let's say for example you had a visual capacity of 30 clients and you had 1500 people who'd filled in a scorecard and signaled that they're interested in working with you like you'd feel ten foot tall you'd be bulletproof you'd be walking down the street right yeah yes you've got with or without your energy I'm gonna be fine next year with or without you um and um and and customers can pick up on that they can smell because when they say things like oh you know we really need to get this done urgently you just say hey look I might not be your supplier I've got plenty of people who want to work you know who want to work with us and we've got a particular way of working and anyone who doesn't want to work that way we just recommend them to somebody else and it's like really it's like yeah totally that's just how we work and it's you can only genuinely do that if you are genuinely oversubscribed and you have that with or without you energy um I want to ask for your feedback on something that we started almost at the same time as I was reading the book on on the plane ride home I have a workshop in Miami and we think we're going to sell 50 tickets it's kind of where we want to hold capacity but the the event page isn't ready because we're in negotiations with the events page company right and so I can't even direct people to that so I just asked people on the internet if you're interested comment like RSVP and so then they're doing this on Twitter and on LinkedIn I said as soon as the link is available I will send it to you and then I read the book I'm like wait a minute this is similar concept like I just done LinkedIn so now you can see RSVP RSVP and you can see who's saying it and it's actually more people than I thought would already be committing to the concept they haven't put down any money yet they're just saying please let me know they can see each other right and they can see the activity around this so I'm like as I'm reading a book I'm like wait wait I think I'm doing the same thing I'm doing the same thing here yeah is that right am I doing the right path yeah yeah I mean I mean you you and I I school I swear we're just cut from the same cloth like the way our minds work um you know we've had previous conversations but yeah I mean that's just intuitively perfect here's what you could do if you wanted to ramp it you could say I've only got 50 spots and I'm sticking to my 50 spots and I want it to be a really super specific Workshop so I'm going to get you to fill in this uh online survey or scorecard and once you fill it in based on how you answer I'm gonna I'm not telling you what the criteria is because I want you to answer honestly but based on how you answer I'll either offer you a ticket or I won't and I want you to I want you to fill this in answer the questions honestly and then you'll find out whether you've been offered a ticket in a week from now um and and then it's like a week of tension will I or won't I be able to get one of these tickets and that is also added value because who wouldn't want to be in a room that's been screened who would want to be in a room where it's super specific to their needs where they they know they're going to get extra value because it's going to be crazy focused on a particular set of problems that that I know that I want to solve so that would be another signal collection so signal collection one would be RSVP in the comments signal collection two is fill in the scorecard and then you've been selected and then boom you know the whole thing is full with the right people um you mentioned a couple of things you mentioned the difference between an airline and Rolex watches I presume you know a couple things about their business I'd love to talk about this because we talked about an event this makes sense so people are like well I don't do events or don't apply this maybe make a product let's try to understand products because I'm fascinated by how luxury brands are able to sell essentially a commodity at super high premium prices at everything they do to trigger those kind of responses in you Rolex is one of them when I get when I graduated school in 1995 a couple years into my business I was doing well enough and it was always one of my things like I want a nice timepiece so I went to the store and I bought myself a Rolex Submariner at that time I can't remember what I paid I want to say like 3 500 bucks which for me was a lot of money back then yeah and I did not buy the one with the the date I just got the one with time because along with date cost believe this or not 500 more and I'm like I don't really need to date Daniel I'm going to leave to regret that decision but fast forward something has happened where now you cannot walk into any store and just say I want the Submariner here's my money take my money they won't even sell it to you okay tell me what's happening and what do you understand about their business because I've heard different stories and I want to compare notes with you what's happened is they've decided to play by their own rules right so there is no law that says you have to meet the marketplace demand you can make as much of your product as you want you can keep Supply constrained if you want to there's no law that says you have to sell something to someone the day that they ask for it you can put people on a waiting list if you want to so what happened is that Rolex either by Design or accidentally figured out that if they keep Supply at a limited capacity of whatever the supply is and they keep that slightly below the level of demand that they've got if they always religiously put the price up by three percent every single year which they do and also if they make sure that the reset value of a Rolex stays high they realize that essentially this would create tension in the marketplace and if they could maintain that tension then um then they would have a business that's massively over subscribed and stays over subscribed but I'll tell you here's what Rolex does really really well they figure out what works and they keep doing it even after the fact that they're oversubscribed so even though there's an 18 month uh wait list for a Rolex they still take out the back page of all the men's magazines they still sponsor The Wimbledon Tennis they still sponsor the yachting Races they still do all the things that got them to be oversubscribed even though they are over subscribed one thing I see that's a mistake is I see businesses get themselves into a position where they have a waiting list and then they turn off the marketing they turn off whatever it was that they did that worked and then they get under subscribed and then they have to work really hard to get over subscribed again and then once they're there they go oh no I've got this three-month waiting list you can imagine a boat that eyes up its uh engines to get out of the water and then it starts to aquaplane and then as soon as it aquaplanes it turns off the engines and it sinks back into the water and it's like keeps doing that what you want to do is get out an aquaplane and then leave the engines on so that you keep you stay over subscribed and that's what Rolex have done they've figured out what works and they just make sure they keep doing what works I'm jotting down notes and things to Circle back on with you and I'm going to talk about how to keep your uh your your your prices higher and increase the resale value I want to talk a little bit about how much energy it takes to get something launched and then to turn off that engine seems crazy but people do this all the time I just want to stay in the Rolex conversation for a little bit and we'll just compare like what we know or what we've heard so I've read articles on this back in the day when Rolex figured out that they're losing luster in this brand that it seems like everybody has them and they've oversold the market is saturated so they woke up one day somewhere in the late 90s or early 2000s and realize they need to clamp down on Supply and so they implemented something I think is beautiful and if you ever collected anything that's collectible like Pokemon cards you understand how this works they're called like Chase packs or like extra rare cards like you have to buy so many packs and they're guaranteed in one of those packs is a hollow foil rare Pokemon thing that's worth a lot of money completely artificial completely made up so what I'm heard from people who are in the know with watches they said that Rolex makes most of their margins selling watches that have either precious metals or stones in them but the market doesn't want that so in order for you to get a Submariner which is what everybody wants the reseller has to buy something like eight of the precious metal ones in order to get two of the ones that everybody buys and so they're incentivized to sell the ones where they make a ton of money they already make a ton of money as it is but these ones with like white gold or rose gold are even more expensive and the margins are even higher so now they've created this demand for the ones that are kind of common which is bizarre because I believe you can walk in and buy one of the expensive ones you just can't buy the standard Submariner which is what I like so what happens is there's a secondary market and they give a lot of power to the reseller now to choose who their loyal customers are so if you go and you buy two of those expensive ones they're like do you want one of the other ones and of course you want it because as soon as you can buy it you can go out in the street on use or even use and sell it for more than what you've paid this is an important concept to understand in several businesses who've mastered this have skyrocketed in terms of the revenue you mentioned this yourself when you sell out your tickets you get this oversubscribe base you're sold out you're not you're not going to offer more seats when you write in the book you literally offer people more money for their tickets than what they paid for this is this is like mind-blowing to me because we hear about this happening for a rock concert but a workshop Daniel Priestley and you're doing this tell me more about that yeah so once we hit a point of oversubscribed what I want to do is really lock it in um so I end up with a waiting list and what I love to do is just email everyone who's got a ticket and say if you don't intend on showing up for any reason that's fine we're gonna buy your ticket back for a premium because we've got someone who's willing to pay the higher price and what's funny is it just locks people in right people people go like let's say I'm doing something that's only like 100 pounds a ticket 100 a ticket um you know you know what it's like people sometimes turn up sometimes they don't turn up sometimes they turn up late Etc so if I say hey we'll buy that ticket back off you for 200 um we've got someone else who wants it then they go no that stick it's mine and I'm not gonna give it up and then they turn up and they they value it now it's not a gimmick I only do this when I actually have a waiting list of people who would actually happily buy the the ticket you get super powers once you're oversubscribed you you end up with these superpowers there's something that's also happening with Rolex that I want to kind of peer behind the curtain and and sort of share a in in all the thing that you just described there's a there's a um like a principle that's really important and the principle is that people buy when the conditions are right and the conditions being right you need three ingredients that normally don't go together and the three ingredients is logic emotion and urgency so what's actually happening and what you're describing when you went through that whole story about the Rolex and you can resell it for this amount of money and you could go out onto the street and they only give you this amount of time and you have to buy this one and then that happens what's actually doing is they're weaving together logic emotion and urgency so the logic of buying a Rolex is that it holds its resale value or it even goes up in value that's the logic the emotion is it's a premium luxury watch that makes me look like an important person and I get to feel a sense of status and achievement by being associated with the brand and then the urgency is that I've been on a waiting list for 18 months I really want that Daytona but I have to buy three other watches to get to the Daytona and finally it's arrived the day is here I've only got a short window of time to buy this and then I get it and it's like so essentially what they've done is they've found a logic trigger an emergency an emotion trigger and an urgency trigger and they fire off those three in quick succession and then the conditions are writing people by so what I see entrepreneurs doing or Business Leaders doing or creatives doing is that they they're they're really only good at one out of the three they love selling On Emotion they want to build they want to build trust and stories and Rapport and they want you to fall in love with their creativity but they don't make the case for why it's valuable uh they don't put the ROI of the value of it they don't tell it to you like it's a spreadsheet they don't explain it to the CFO right and then also they don't have any urgency trigger you can take it or leave it or buy it whenever you like or come back when you when it suits you so um the other thing is I see lots of people selling on logic but they don't do the emotion or the urgency and sometimes people sell on urgency but they don't build the logic in the emotion first so you need all three the people only buy when the conditions are right and that people Stampede when all three of these happen so if you can fire off all three with a group of people there's a stampede I think one company that's mastered this probably more consistently than anybody else's Apple and Elon Musk too but Apple consistently like uh this uh Apple Vision thing that's coming out okay now there's some question marks about it right there there's it's not even ready you can't even buy it there's nothing to put your name on they announce it they they show you how it can be used to capture your imagination so that's all emotions but then my logic's like well it's an amazing display and I need it for business because I need to be kind of where people are at and be part of the conversation and the urgency is I'm pretty sure there's a finite quantity of these things and they're only going to make so many and I need to be there at the very front so the urgency is there so all the Apple Fanboys every time they have a new product announcement an update they don't have to do any PR they don't have to do any marketing or advertising they still do to your point but everybody's ready to share like apple farts and somebody writes that writes a blog post about what it smells like you know they're all there and I'm there reading that post like describe that smell again great great you know what I mean that Aroma is incredible so I can tell you behind behind the scenes I know someone who was actually at the Apple launch event for the Apple Vision Pro I think it's called how's this out of the couple of thousand people they invited only a very small number actually got to put the headset on and actually touch it or feel it or put it on and all that you had to be absolute top top top top you know like Tech reviewer for the New York Times or 20 million followers on on this thing you had to be super super premium if you were just that one little tier you were allowed to look at it from a distance but you weren't allowed to touch it and you weren't allowed to put it on your head and and it's like they're building so much tension even with the people who set the trends uh they're they're incredible when they do PR the number one PR story that Apple releases is always that we're not going to be able to satisfy demand that's their number one PR story they always run with that so like here in the UK I can guarantee you a year from now they're going to be saying uh we're going to be sending only 40 000 units to the UK and you know that's that's all we can send and there's only going to be 40 000 of them available and there'll be people camping out for them there will be for sure they limit the allotment of any retailer or reseller that they could have and they communicate that down the line until it gets to you or I like we better wait the night before if we really want this thing because in the previous launches of their phones it's been lines out the door yeah blocks people can't be out quite literally they know that this is a new product and they know that you're still unsure about how you feel about it what are they doing they're 7-Eleven foring they're going back to what we started the conversation with so they know that if they try and get you to buy it straight away you're going to have mixed feelings you're not going to be ready they have to build a relation you have to build a relationship to this product with seven hours 11 interactions for locations so here's what I here's what I imagine they're gonna do there will be another series of announcements that come out between now and Christmas there will be a few Apple headsets that actually go to the stores but they'll be behind glass and you'll be able to look at it but not touch it and they'll actually have that available in certain stores and you'll be able to just kind of walk past and have a look at it and see it but not but not get your hands on it then they'll say that you can try it on in store but we're not selling them um you can actually like have a have a have a play for five minutes but then the next person wants to have a go and we're not selling any of these you can't have it just yet so they're going to go through this song and dance of 7-Eleven flooring and Signal collecting getting you to fall in love with it uh before they actually put it on sale that's my prediction okay we'll keep watching it I think you're right about that and it's kind of interesting from a marketing standpoint that maybe they understand that not many that many people will buy it so instead of saying like we only sold so many units well we only made so many units so that certain number of people buy it's just changing the narrative right and therefore increasing demand so something that might not be considered Successful by an electronic company like apple this will be seen as a ginormous success who knows we'll see what happens next year okay I have a question for you and before I do that I just want to welcome everybody in case you're just joining us I'm talking to Daniel Priestley he's written a number of books uh We've we're talking about over subscribed I'm holding the book right here which I paid for with my own money by the way and Daniel gave me another copy which he wrote in like read this you sucker no he didn't use those words but all right so oversubscribe we've talked to him before in the past with key person of influence we may talk about how to raise entrepreneurial children he's written a book called 24 assets and the entrepreneur Revolution am I missing a book here uh the most recent one is scorecard marketing oh yes okay how could I forget that scorecard marketing of course all right it's hard to keep track of all the books you've written I have to ask this question then how do we build this tension if we're a service provider if I design and build websites let's say how do I use the same principles of oversubscribe because we talked about products we talked about events sometimes people have a hard time figuring out that jump in imagination is it okay if I get quite technical or please um or prescriptive yeah so here's what you do you set your official capacity for the year ahead right and you literally say all right what do I want my official capacity to be and you map it out and you figure it out down to the exact amount of clients and exactly what they're going to pay and all of that sort of stuff so you do the you do the mathematics around your supply and the way that you do this is that you factor in your holidays you factor in taking time off to go uh you know on on dates with your your wife or your husband you really basically say if I had a really good year this is what it would look like and you set your official capacity and you you set that in stone you write it down and they say that is my official capacity now once you have that here's what you do you're gonna break it up into 40 weeks of the year and you're going to figure out what is my official capacity divided by 40. so for round numbers let's say your official capacity was to take on 80 clients and there's 40 weeks of the year so you need roughly speaking two clients per week um to to meet your official capacity if you're working on 40 weeks of the year so here's what you're going to do you're going to end up with three campaigns that you're going to run in the year ahead campaign number one is called the perfect repeatable week and the perfect repeatable week just like it sounds you're going to repeat a few Key activities that collect multiple signals for every unit of capacity like if you've got two units of capacity for the week you want 10 people to Signal interest that week so you need a perfect repeatable week that collects those signals that's going to be your perfect repeatable week you're just going to do it over and over and over and I can give you some examples in a minute the second campaign you're going to schedule is called the spotlight campaign Spotlight campaign is every quarter you're going to do something big and exciting and you're going to align yourself to a bigger brand you're going to have a professional speaker come in or do something like that you're going to do something special something exciting it's either going to be product LED personality LED it could be experience LED but there's going to be some Spotlight campaign that happens every 90 days and then you're going to do what we call the annual big message and the annual big message is you're going to basically have a big message that spreads far and wide the buying belief and the buying belief is if you believe this then you will buy this so if you believe that 10 000 steps a day is a good idea then you will buy a Fitbit to track your steps if you believe that companies that have a purpose outperform companies that don't then you will buy a start with Y consultant right so essentially you you have a big campaign that does the buying belief so you broadcast the buying belief so now you've got three campaigns the big message that goes out on social media the quarterly Spotlight event that is something exciting and then the boring money making perfect repeatable week all right so those are your three campaigns and you schedule those out that is your demand generation engine and that sits on top of your official capacity and it basically gets you so far over subscribed that you can't even switch the damn thing off you you literally end up swamped so if I design websites and I design and build websites for clients in the fintech space what does my perfect repeatable week look like how do I generate because everybody needs to know this part how do I generate 5x the demand of my capacity so I would do this I would have a perfect repeatable week that is an online assessment and it would basically be that um I would promote an online assessment uh where someone goes online fills in an online assessment to see is my digital strategy for my fintech uh top tier right so it might be an online assessment that says do you have a top tier uh digital strategy for your fintech business fill in this online assessment and Benchmark yourself against the best practices in the industry so that would be something that you promote pretty actively and you promote it every single week you run ads to it you might have an outbound call team might have a DM strategy direct messaging strategy so you just kind of push that and push that and push that and push that now I'm guessing that if you're that Niche you probably only need I don't know 15 20 clients per year so your official capacity is you only need a couple of clients a month so you might say well we only really need to get 10 to 20 to 30 people to fill that assessment in every single month and that basically is a perfect repeatable week so if we break that up and say 10 a week right if we can get 10 people a week to fill in the assessment that is going to be and we call them up and talk to them that's going to be our um perfect repeatable week so online assessment would be a great way to do that uh any other ideas and I want to Circle back to that in a second but uh so include yeah it could be a boardroom presentation could be a lunch and learn an example of a financial planner um so when I was growing up as a kid there was this ad in the paper every single Saturday it was a quarter page ad and it basically said are you ready for retirement um and it said uh come along and do a retirement Readiness Workshop I think it was or something like that and I went along to it as a 15 year old and I basically sat there and in the room there was a boardroom table there was about 20 of us 15 20 of us sitting around the table and the guy goes through and he does the presentation it was a Wednesday night so Saturday newspaper Wednesday night and he just does the the presentation and it's all about like dollar cost averaging and investing into a portfolio of funds and blah blah blah blah so he does the presentation and then he just pushes his diary around the table and he says if you want to have a one-to-one with me or my team put your name in The Diary now he did this every single week every single week and I went to it twice I went once when I was 15 and once when I was 18 and it was word for word exactly the same um now this guy 10 years later sold his company for 30 million dollars and he had no debt and he had no outside investors and he he made the Australian Young Rich list when they interviewed him he basically said it wasn't a complicated strategy I just ran the same thing over and over every week um I like ran the same ad in the same paper and every Wednesday night I did an introduction Workshop so that is just an intro workshop and you just basically do that perfect repeatable week 40 weeks of the year um at least so Workshop um it could be a dinner could be a lunch I I know someone in Dubai who has a permanent booking on a Thursday um for a private dining at a really nice I think it's Buddha Bar or one of these nice restaurants and it's a private dining with 12 seats and she makes sure that she's got 11 people at the table every Thursday and she reinvites the biggest brands and she invites all the people and she contacts her team contacts them through Instagram and they say hey would you love to come along to our little private dining that we've got and that builds a really big agency real fast the dinner part is the hook so then she's doing something that where she's exchanging value with them like in the case of the guy who ran the are you ready for retirement he taught to people in the room something so that they would it would provoke interests create tension demand and then they would schedule an appointment yeah for most businesses It's a combination of educate and Entertain You know you've got to find the blend that's right for you but essentially in the example of the person in Dubai what she's doing is she's bringing together people it's a lot of social proof that the big brands are always there um and she's got the opportunity to say what we actually do is we manage these Brands and we do these types of things and she can showcase her work but she can also get everyone else to introduce but the key is that it's a perfect repeatable week it's something that you do every single week you just do it and do it and do it do it you don't have to think it's every Thursday we've got a lunch with 10 people around the table right that's that's just every Thursday so that's the key to the perfect repeater week it's like yep every week we get 10 people to fill in the score card every week we do an introduction event every week we do a little lunch and learn event whatever whatever it is for the business you find something you can just crank the handle and repeat uh every every week so that's the that's the perfect repeatable week so I I imagine it would take a little trial and error until you found the thing that works and then once you find something work works you you might refine it but you're quite literally doing the same thing over and over again so it doesn't become this heavy load for you right yeah it's set and forget I don't need to think I can just literally just do the same thing and I would say most businesses I come across if I ask a few questions they almost always can tell me something that they did that worked that would be repeatable and the the just the crazy thing is they just don't do it they just don't repeat it it's like someone who goes to a well puts the bucket down the well it comes up full of water and then they go oh that's well I won't do that again it's like why you know repeat what works yeah okay so you said at the the very top of this which is to provide an online assessment and it's a way for you to give someone some value at scale so they they can do a health knowledge fit check and you and I are talking about working together for your score app so everybody's listening to this that doesn't have to be painful either because I think Daniel's scratching his own itch he's realizing people need this so you built the tool and from what I've seen so far the integration with AI it's super elegant it's very easy you removed most of the pain points around this and in a future episode be on the lookout for that where we're going to use this exact same strategy to have people signal to us that they're interested in enrolling in something we'll show you how it's built we'll show you the Practical applications of it we'll be using it all through this technology that makes it super elegant it's called score app and we'll Circle back on that later so if you're listening to us or watching this and you're super interested just comment score app and then we'll make sure that you're notified of when that happens see I'm applying what I'm learning in real time here signal collecting signal collection you know what we'll do when we do the score up one we'll build a scorecard live and we'll launch it and collect leads and literally it will take 10 minutes and it'll it'll be 10 minutes and we'll we'll just literally we'll build we'll come up with a concept have ai write it have ai coded up and then we'll just go launch and we'll use the AI generated uh post on our Twitter and we'll generate leads all in under 10 minutes It'll be epic wow okay and I've seen him do this this is not an exaggeration it's all being done in real time I've seen him do it multiple times so as as the Skeptics of you are like nice as possible well if you had to do before and one of the reasons why we haven't utilized it as much is because it is painful to write like a meaningful quiz and to be able to give meaningful answers to people and he's removed most of the pain around this so you're going to want to check that out okay Daniel what other big concepts are in the book that we haven't yet touched on because in full disclosure I've read about a third of the book I'm bluffing my way through the rest here so I'm just going to ask you what else is important for me to understand well we talk about the different phases of a campaign so when we get into the um the spotlight campaigns we talk about campaign planning tension building uh signaling that you're oversubscribed releasing the the supply and then following up with sales sales calls so we we'd literally talk about what can you be doing to like break that down into its steps the spotlight campaigns are interesting the spotlight campaigns are basically like every quarter you're going to have all these leads sitting around and you want to have like something for them to re-engage around so it could be an online Zoom event it could be taking people off to some special concert it could be like private box seats at a at a sporting event it could be that you do a product launch or a feature launch you know so any of those kind of things some some like a closed door sale or like some it's something special and you want to have a build up to it you want to like ramp it up and say oh this is happening now and like register now and here's your tickets and uh yeah so that's that sort of stuff um so those are those are all important I talk about campaign teams a campaign team should be four people uh that there's typically for a four-person campaign team and essentially you've got uh the key person of influence who's going to be the face of the campaign or the compare or the host of The Campaign you've got the head of sales who's going to make sure that the actual leads turn into sales the head of operations is going to make sure that it all runs smoothly and someone who's going to manage the finances or the money so I talk about these little four-person campaign teams and basically assigning this to a four person or if you're an entrepreneur getting a few car you know collaborators uh on on this stuff can I ask you a very selfish question of course okay here we go I I need help Daniel and I I'm going to set this up so you're going to be the hero and I'm going to play the fool and I'm totally okay accepting whatever judgment you may render okay so we have a coaching Community called the Pro Group which you're familiar with I don't deal with any of the marketing anymore and we're trying to grow this group to be like a thousand or two thousand people and so I have a marketing team there's two people on the marketing team there's designers to support them and tech people and writers and all that kind of stuff what do I need to do to be able to create an over subscribed State because we do run webinars where I give value I teach I educate and entertain I think and then people will show up to the webinar signaling that they're interested but they're actually not because we've discovered that quite a few people aren't ready to spend that kind of money it's not even that much money and to join a professional development group because their mindset mindset isn't there they're just there because they want the free lesson so I don't know if you need more information than that but what are we doing wrong because we're definitely doing things wrong so the first thing is set official capacity so when you said a thousand or two thousand you need to pick an official capacity so you want to say you want to say this is a group for 1600 people that's it and when we hit 1600 where that's it we're not after that it's a waiting list right or maybe it's 2 000 but it's like as soon as it's 2000 it's not going to be 2001. um and then you want to say this is a group for ex-type of people who want to solve x type of problem or who want to be around you know these types of things or there has to be some sort of criteria and then essentially what you want to do is say it you know it's application the first step is an application to be selected for the group so what you might do is say we're currently we have a thousand people we're capping it at two thousand so what we've decided to do is bring in a hundred people a month for 10 months um and that's how we're going to do it we're gonna we're gonna ramp it up over 10 months and we no matter how many people apply we will only take on 100 a month and we'll onboard those people properly and we'll get to know them we'll have a special onboarding session and all of those sorts of things we do that in the first month and we'll give you a little directory of all the newbies and we'll like look after you as you come in come on board so then the goal is as well okay if the if we need to hit 100 a month let's say we have 400 on the webinar and we let people know the official capacity is 2 000 we're bringing on 100 but we're already at a thousand we're bringing 100 a month for 10 months um or 83 a month for 12 months um and fill in the application and if you're not successful this month we'll roll you over to the next month and we'll let you know the key is you want to create some rules around it so you want to create a game and you want to be real about it you want to say you know what if you have to be doing 500 Grand to get in like 500 Grand revenue and above then as soon as someone says I do 490 it's like we'll come back when you do the last 10 000. um you know you've got to get over you've got to hit the criteria so you might have some criteria around tangibles like revenue or you might have some criteria around intangibles like are you willing to give back with your business or you might say um you know there's some sort of like personality test or some sort of thing that you have to go through first so you might do all of those things to make it a buying experience and then stick to your knitting stick to your guns when you hit 2000 that's it it's a wait list you keep doing what worked you keep running those workshops but you build and build and build the wait list and it becomes more exclusive and more exclusive and then once you've got a big waiting list you tell all the people in the group if you want to stop if you want to quit that's totally fine we will buy back your membership we'll we'll give you a refund plus 10 or plus 20 or plus 50 we want anyone who doesn't want to be here we want you out because we have a waiting list of people who want in that's lovely I would love to be at that place where I'm like I'm gonna pay you to leave I'll pay you more than you've invested because more people want to get in oh I love that and it's great I have paid people to leave yeah um I had a guy who was really annoying at one of my workshops and I said um I said I'm going to ask you to leave and he said uh he said no no I've taken the day off and I said what's your day rate he said 400 pounds a day and I said I'm going to pay you 800 pounds for the day and I'm going to pay you 200 pounds for your ticket and that's a thousand pounds and you're gonna leave did he leave yeah he left yeah but it's a smile on his face no he was a bit cross um yeah he was he was being disruptive he was being a a technical term called being a dick and um you know but but it was we were in a position where we had so many great people there it's like I'm not gonna let someone if someone's not right for the group um I'm not gonna let someone uh ruin someone else's experience yeah you know so anyway a separate a separate story but guess what I left with a smile on my face it felt really good I bet you did I bet you did okay well you know he can't be that cross because he got everything and some back and so he wasn't really out of pocket for anything mostly probably professionally embarrassed and probably has to do like a quick check-in with himself at that point I finally had to do it once I'm pretty tolerant guy yeah yeah okay I want to be respectful of your time but we've been talking to Daniel Priestley about his book over subscribed I think he's given you a pretty high level summary of the big Concepts in the book and I hope you're all able to kind of map what he's sharing about being over subscribed having greater Demand versus Supply and one one of the clear principles here and I'm just kind of taking note myself which is just figure out what your finite capacity is and just stick to it don't let greed get in the way and then as soon as you do that now you've controlled this the the supply of whatever it is that you're doing Service Group coaching events products whatever you're doing and then you can really realize the benefit of having too many customers or buyers of the thing that you have a finite Quant quantity in doing now people who are say in the nft space already understand this concept everybody you guys understand this and I hate to draw to this but I see it I see the parallel you you can get this free nft great but only the people hold the free nft can then be allowed to buy the next tier nft and it keeps going on and on and on right so some nfts the initial drop is a dollar or very little or even a hundred bucks but you need to have that as your ability to buy the next thing so that thing that you get for free or for no money then becomes super valuable because if your nft were to blow up the only way you can buy into the program is through this and so you're creating inherent value for people who own things Porsche does a great job with this Rolex does a great job so you can actually increase value that's the logic part which we need to address a lot of times and we're not clear on the ROI of that so I see this now Daniel you've laid it out really clearly now people are going to get pissed off I'm just going to say this you're going to get upset because you're like wait what happened to the raising entrepreneurial children episode that you both promise because the internet has been hammering both of us like when when when and you know what not now because I want to have a full-on conversation with you about raising entrepreneurial children but tease us a little bit Daniel what can we expect when we're going to talk about raising entrepreneurial children let's just start with the idea that the school system was created in a time where what the world needed was component labor we needed people who could fit into local local geography jobs and they could fit into the local nursing you know hospital or the local police station or the local Factory and essentially you needed a very standardized set of skills that would fit into any number of standardized work environments and that was the that was the schooling system and it's done a great job of getting us through the Industrial Age and extending life expectancy and you know growing GDP and improving quality of life for billions of people I'm not against the schooling system but I am aware that we're now moving into a different economy a different way way of thinking a different way a different Paradigm so the schooling system is a very slow to react institution because it's so large so essentially what we have to do is say hey we need to think about what kind of world do our kids grow up in with AI and technology and jobs that are like all over the world and all this sort of stuff how do we raise kids for that world now the one thing I do want to say is that this is not about forcing children to be entrepreneurs it's about encouraging those natural Sparks of Entrepreneurship that are already in them so simple things like when a child wants something they have to learn how to communicate it effectively and we just give it a word called a pitch we say you need to pitch that better right that's a that's a great idea but you haven't pitched it effectively let me introduce you to how to pitch an idea properly or if a child wants to negotiate rather than just saying no means no and I will never change my mind on that because I said no I mean no you say I'm not willing to change my position because you haven't negotiated effectively and maybe if you negotiate better then and I'll talk to you about how to negotiate better but if we negotiate then I'm willing to change my position because that's what happens with good negotiation right so we're just starting to say hey wait a second maybe some of the home truths of how you raise kids like no means no and all that sort of stuff in terms of like your bedtime is this maybe that needs a little bit of a rethink maybe we need to introduce them to some of the entrepreneurial paradigms and kids love this like you've you know my kids on a cold day they make hot chocolate they stand out the front and they yell at the people going past get your hot chocolates one pound for hot chocolates they love creating a product and taking it to Market they love seeing people sip the hot chocolate and say that it's delicious um you know all this sort of stuff they're only four five and seven four five and eight right so they're they're like at all ages they love negotiating they love pitching ideas you create an environment where they're kind of being trained to think and work like this and understand how later on when they get out of school or everywhere they go actually they can apply these skills how to pitch how to to negotiate and everything's negotiable and I got to ask you this question because of course as a parent you work and you get tired and they want to ask for something unreasonable your instinct is just to say no how do you practice the patience to be able to sit down well you haven't presented a compelling case enough for me to change my position on this how does that work in the in the Priestly household well they've got to still interact with the real world I'm not creating a false environment where things are just easily negotiable like if they catch me at the wrong time then the answer is going to be no and maybe I just say hey look this is the wrong time to ask me because I'm busy doing other things maybe if you ask me later um then the answer might change it's it's basically saying can I create an environment that's a little bit more like the real world where you can get ahead if you do certain things it's having an agreement about school right so kids need it to have an understanding that you know and they know that school's not the be all and end-all right that you've got an agreement around it it's like hey look we both know that school doesn't teach you how to be great at life but it does teach you the basics and it does have value and I know and you know like you know when they come to you and they say oh I I don't like these things like my kids at the moment they don't like phonics there's this thing that they do called phonics and I say hey look I agree with you phonics this is boring as hell and you don't like it um but let me explain to you what it's a building block for something let me tell you what it's a building block for so we have an agreement about if we can get through phonics you know we understand where that's taking us there's also little tiny things like kids break stuff all the time they build stuff and break stuff and one of the things that I love saying to my kids is the fun part's building it not having it right so once you've finished the Lego it's boring at that point right it was really fun building the Lego but once you've got it it's really just sitting there so I keep saying to them the fun part is building it not having it it doesn't matter if it gets broken because you get the chance to rebuild it or build something different and that is a really interesting Paradigm because in life stuff's going to break they're going to get disrupted their careers are going to get changed four times five times a decade so so every decade for the rest of their life they're going to get disrupted and disrupted and disrupted and disrupted if they have a belief that the fun part's building it not not having it they're going to go actually you know what I'm just going to get on with rebuilding um and that's going to be a you know positive attitude to to the disruption to come so little things like that um tend to be tend to be good I cannot wait to have this conversation with you I love how you're reframing with them that you know no isn't always no no is negotiable and not to be discouraged and so I think some of the things that scare people in adult life is to hear the word know and you're you're kind of priming them and conditioning to say no it's just the beginning of the negotiation and it's awesome you're also teaching them to want to build things to create things and and kind of becoming detached with the ownership of that thing so they're going to be much more flexible in how they see things like okay that didn't work but I'll try a different thing and it doesn't really matter and it's not to chase the success but it's to love the Journey of it so I think that's enough of a tease everybody I'm super sorry I'm I know you're still angry because right now you're like what he's going to end it there and guess what yes I am that's where we're gonna end this Daniel Priestly it's been a pleasure talking to you as always I'm not sure where we're going to cross paths again but I know we will other things that are coming other things are coming everybody it's just hang tight everybody and I know if you're listening to this and you've gotten as much value as I have and I've been hanging out with this guy so I've had more exposure than you tell a friend share this episode with somebody let us know in the comments or wherever you're able to share this how we did today Daniel Priestley is there anything else you want to talk about or promote before we get out of here well you know what I just love your stuff I'm geeking out on all things Christo and I enjoy um our uh our friendship and I enjoy what we're talking about the thing that um you and I are really connecting with at the moment is this AI stuff this data um you know both of us are very much creatives but it's like how do we interact with data and Ai and our personal human creativity and I love where that conversation's going and you know we hinted at the fact that you and I we're going to be talking about some ways to use AI in marketing and and leverage more data and turn that into creativity I'm really on the edge of my seat about about what we're going to do with that look at this we're killing people we're gonna tease three things on this episode scorecard the app and the marketing part of that and being able to run quizzes at scale using ai ai itself is a topic on how that's going to boost our creativity and what we can do when we're in Newcastle you had said something and somebody had asked like what's your opinion on AI and you said it's going to be something that's going to generate massive wealth except for it's not going to be distributed evenly and that's the trick you want to be on the right side of the distribution of that we're going to be talking about how to raise entrepreneurial children there's just too much stuff it's going to be like 55 episodes with Daniel Priestley or something like that thanks so much for doing this Daniel I love it thanks Chris it's good to see you foreign