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    Podcast 13 min read

    The Truth Behind Scroll-Stopping Thumbnails w/ Brittney Carlini

    with Brittney Carlini

    Chris Do and Brittney Carlini explain why compelling thumbnails need narrative tension, not just polished design.

    Chris Do

    Chris Do

    Founder, The Futur™ · September 23, 2026

    A beautiful image can tell the wrong story

    A thumbnail can become prettier and less persuasive at the same time. Brittney Carlini learned that while designing for her husband's YouTube channel, before becoming a full-time thumbnail strategist and designer in 2022. Her experience matters because the problem was not a lack of graphic design knowledge: it was knowing which instincts to keep and which to challenge.

    She had been freelancing in graphic design when her husband started making videos. Outsourcing thumbnails was beyond their budget, so she taught herself Photoshop and took on the work. By her own assessment, the results were poor for roughly a year and a half.

    Eventually, friends began asking who made his thumbnails. Some already knew and wanted to know whether she had room for another client. Attending her first VidSummit in 2022 helped turn that growing demand into a decision to specialize.

    That origin story is less about discovering a software skill than discovering a different assignment. A thumbnail was not simply a small piece of graphic design. It had to make a specific video feel worth opening.

    In conversation with Chris Do, Carlini describes an early client, Leon, whose feedback challenged her understanding of good work. He pushed hard on details she initially believed she had handled correctly. She knew how to clean up an image, but he was asking her to sharpen its premise.

    One concept placed a tiny pill beside a tightly cropped eye. Carlini remembers the video as relating to focus or dopamine, though not its exact subject. Her initial treatment improved the skin, color, and lighting.

    The revisions went in the opposite direction.

    Red veins and additional redness made the eye appear stressed or sleep-deprived. Those details supplied a condition that the pill appeared positioned to address. The image gained a before-and-after implication without needing to show two separate portraits.

    Polish is not the same as persuasion. In this case, making the face look healthier risked removing the very problem that gave the image its meaning. The less flattering treatment carried more of the story.

    Carlini's recollection also reveals a useful distinction between technical competence and conceptual competence. She could edit the visible elements. What she had not yet learned was how those elements could create intrigue together.

    That distinction gives the feedback its value. Leon was not merely asking for stronger effects or a more recognizable thumbnail style. He was identifying what the audience needed to understand before the video began.

    The exchange sits naturally alongside The Futur's Learning, Collaboration, Critique & Feedback: the relevant issue is not whether a designer receives criticism, but whether that criticism changes the criteria used to judge the work.

    Carlini had to stop treating cleanliness as an automatic improvement. A polished face could be wrong for the concept. An uncomfortable eye could be right.

    That is the first reversal in her approach: the image is not finished when everything looks better. It is finished when the important details make the premise clearer and the unresolved story harder to ignore.

    The detail has to earn its place

    A second assignment made the same distinction tangible in a different way. The image showed a hand holding a steel bar of soap against a bathroom background. Carlini does not recall the video's exact topic, but she remembers the visual decisions that shaped the thumbnail.

    One early choice worked: she intensified the texture of the soap so it read unmistakably as metal. The source image had not made that quality obvious enough. Without that recognition, the unusual object could lose its reason for attracting attention.

    Other choices needed more work. Leon wanted scratches on the palm and visible damage that would introduce tension. A bright pink bathroom supplied a recognizable environment, while steam between the hand and the wall suggested someone using the object in the shower.

    The changes did different jobs. They were not interchangeable decorations piled onto a photograph.

    • The metallic texture clarified what the object was.
    • The scratches introduced discomfort and a possible consequence.
    • The bathroom and steam placed the object inside an activity.

    Together, they shifted the image from an object display toward an implied event. The viewer was no longer looking only at an unusual bar of soap. The hand and setting raised a question about what using it would be like.

    Every visual detail should serve the story. That principle is more demanding than making everything brighter or more dramatic. It requires the designer to explain what an adjustment contributes beyond visual intensity.

    A scratch suggests something different from a reflection. Steam suggests something different from an empty background. Increasing either without understanding its role would copy the surface of Carlini's example while missing the reason for the change.

    This is also where her relationship with traditional graphic design becomes more nuanced. She describes having to unlearn some habits, including assumptions about breathing room. For the tightly packed thumbnails she discusses, unused space can weaken the relationship between the essential elements.

    But she does not abandon graphic design as a discipline. Later, she credits that background with helping her understand storytelling through posters, logos, and book covers. The training remained useful; its application had to become more specific.

    There is no contradiction in keeping one principle and questioning another. The assignment determines which visual decisions matter. A design vocabulary becomes valuable when it offers choices, not when it turns every previous preference into a rule.

    The broader territory connects with The Futur's Storytelling Is A Superpower. Here, storytelling happens through the relationship among an object, a body, and an environment rather than through a sequence of spoken explanations.

    Carlini's examples also resist the idea that thumbnail strategy is merely a set of recognizable effects. Red eyes and damaged hands are not universal prescriptions. They work in her account because they give those particular concepts a condition, a consequence, or a setting.

    Without that connection, the same effects would be noise.

    The practical distinction is between adding something noticeable and adding something meaningful. A viewer can notice bright pink without understanding the premise. The design becomes more coherent when the color supports a recognizable bathroom, the steam supports an activity, and the object remains legible at the center of both.

    The strongest image lives somewhere in time

    Once the details carry meaning, the larger question becomes which moment deserves to be pictured. Carlini does not approach every video by searching for a single impressive object or expression. She considers where the image could sit in the story.

    Do tests that thinking with a hypothetical video featuring a therapist and an alternative approach to therapy. Carlini proposes a person seen from behind, sitting in a peaceful outdoor setting. A beach is one possibility, though the exact location matters less than the feeling of calm.

    The concept is not offered as evidence for a therapeutic claim. It is a packaging exercise: instead of illustrating the therapist speaking, the thumbnail could visualize the emotional result the conversation promises to explore.

    That opens several distinct directions. The image could show someone struggling before receiving advice. It could show the advice being practiced, such as journaling. Or it could show the peaceful aftermath.

    Those alternatives change the question the viewer brings to the image. Distress emphasizes a problem. An activity emphasizes a method. Calm emphasizes a desired result.

    Carlini uses comparable thinking for her husband Jake's videos, which feature unusual vehicles, weapons, and gadgets built from trash. A difficult build becomes easier to package when she considers it before use, during use, or after use.

    Do recognizes the underlying move: the designer is effectively scrubbing a timeline to locate its greatest tension. The thumbnail does not need to explain the entire sequence. It needs to select the moment that makes the rest feel necessary.

    Consider Jake's small vehicle powered by leaf blowers. For one concept, Carlini describes a rear three-quarter view of him sitting in the vehicle, looking back toward the viewer. Ahead, railroad crossing barriers are descending.

    The scene contains a deadline without explaining one.

    The vehicle points toward an unresolved action. The barriers suggest limited time. Jake's glance back gives the viewer an emotional cue, while his raised helmet visor keeps that reaction visible.

    Do compares the setup to a slingshot held under tension. The image stops before the release. Its energy comes from what appears ready to happen, not from showing the outcome.

    Another concept for the same build uses the middle of the action. A low frontal three-quarter angle, a lowered helmet visor, motion blur, and debris emphasize movement. A red sports car trailing behind introduces a comparison: this improvised machine appears to be beating something built for speed.

    The alternatives are not simply different camera angles. One sells anticipation; the other sells apparent performance. The angle, expression, helmet position, and background all change because the underlying proposition changes.

    That is why a thumbnail idea cannot be reduced to its subject. Both images feature the same creator and vehicle, but they offer different reasons to watch.

    Neither concept arrives with performance data in Carlini's account. They should be understood as demonstrations of her reasoning, not proof that one arrangement universally wins. Their value is in making the design decision visible: choose the moment first, then make the visual elements support it.

    A promise is not a permission slip

    The red sports car introduces the hardest part of Carlini's approach. It did not necessarily appear in the video as the thumbnail suggests. The image expresses the excitement of the build through an embellished situation.

    Carlini describes clickbait as a spectrum rather than an automatically negative category. At one end sits underwhelming packaging. At the other sits a misleading promise. Her preferred standard is that the thumbnail should represent the experience of the video, not necessarily its literal outcome.

    That distinction requires care. Matching a video's energy is an editorial judgment, not proof that every invented event is harmless. A designer still has to consider what a reasonable viewer will expect after seeing the image.

    For Jake's channel, Carlini grounds her judgment in the content's tone. His videos combine building with animated performance, clone shots, and an ongoing fictional world. They are not presented solely as detailed demonstrations of tools and construction processes.

    A thumbnail for a mech suit pushes this logic further. The build includes a large punching arm and a projectile launcher. Carlini describes adding debris and signs of destruction that exceed the damage actually shown in the video.

    Her justification is that the opening and surrounding fictional story deliver action and excitement. The thumbnail is meant to communicate that entertainment experience. It is not meant to operate as a precise inventory of what the machine destroys.

    Do offers a comparison with movie posters, invoking the egg imagery of Alien and the looming shark of Jaws. His point is about the division of labor: promotional imagery condenses an attraction, while the film has to deliver an experience worth staying for.

    The analogy helps explain the approach. It does not remove the obligation to deliver.

    “It's like you still have to make a good cookie,” Do says. Better packaging cannot repair the product inside. A thumbnail that makes an ambitious promise transfers the burden to the opening, editing, and substance of the video.

    Carlini therefore recommends confirming the attraction early, especially when the project is unusually demanding or ambitious. A supposed record-setting attempt should not keep viewers waiting through most of the runtime before offering meaningful action.

    The video has to support the promise. Literal correspondence is one way to build that support. A convincing match in tone and experience is the broader standard Carlini argues for, but it demands a close understanding of the actual content.

    • A compelling thumbnail and title cannot rescue poor execution.
    • A well-made video can still struggle with weak packaging or an unappealing topic.
    • High click-through paired with low average view duration can signal misleading packaging or disappointing execution.

    These are diagnostic possibilities, not a formula that identifies one cause from a single number. Carlini explicitly leaves room for different failures. People can enter for the wrong reason, or enter for the right reason and encounter a weak video.

    The performance question also connects to The Futur's Why Some Videos Blow Up & Others Don't. Here, the useful boundary is clear: attracting attention and satisfying attention are separate responsibilities that must ultimately agree.

    A repeatable process, not a borrowed look

    Carlini's examples become most useful when separated from their finished appearance. Copying a damaged hand or a dramatic vehicle composition reproduces a solution to someone else's problem. The transferable part is the reasoning that produced those choices.

    Her starting point for developing that reasoning is ordinary viewing behavior. She asks designers to step outside their professional identities and examine YouTube as consumers. The task is not to assemble a collection of thumbnails that look professionally made.

    It is to notice the actual sequence between seeing something and deciding whether to watch it.

    • Identify what catches the eye.
    • Explain why the image feels interesting or uninteresting.
    • Record why the video ultimately earns a click or does not.

    She also recommends writing down the questions an image creates. That makes curiosity concrete. Instead of calling a thumbnail engaging, the observer has to identify the unresolved information that makes it engaging.

    The distinction matters because attention and interest are not identical in her exercise. Something can be visually conspicuous without creating a reason to continue. Something can be interesting without winning the final decision to click.

    Observation exposes those gaps before a designer tries to solve them for a client. It also produces a more useful account of personal taste than a simple preference for polished or raw imagery.

    For concept development, her timeline approach supplies another practical tool. The same subject can be considered through three moments, each with a different narrative responsibility:

    • Before the action. Establish an unresolved situation, an approaching consequence, or a visible problem.
    • During the action. Show the activity or mechanism in use, with details that clarify what is happening.
    • After the action. Make the result visible, whether that means destruction, a changed condition, or calm.

    These are options, not three mandatory thumbnail drafts for every upload. Carlini uses them to escape a difficult concept and find another entry point into the material. The method expands the range of possible images without changing the video's subject.

    Once the moment is chosen, style introduces a separate decision. Carlini describes a spectrum from raw, realistic screen grabs through a semi-stylized middle to highly stylized work associated with younger audiences.

    For Jake and for her work with HopeScope, she aims toward the middle because she describes their viewers as spanning younger and older audiences. That does not mean the human reaction should become equally exaggerated. She prefers expressions and body language that remain believable.

    The resulting distinction is subtle but important: an image can be visibly constructed without making the person inside it behave like a caricature. Stylization and emotional exaggeration are separate controls.

    That audience sensitivity makes Know Your Audience a relevant companion to the discussion. Carlini's position is not that one thumbnail style is inherently superior, but that its fit depends on the people and content it serves.

    Her working process therefore moves from observation to possible story moments, then toward an appropriate visual treatment. It is a way to make decisions before opening another reference image and borrowing its look.

    AI cannot choose what matters for the designer

    Carlini uses AI in her thumbnail work every day. She describes it as sufficiently useful that certain images would be difficult for her to make without it. Her concern is not that designers are accepting assistance, but that some are accepting output without knowing how to evaluate it.

    Someone entering the field with immediate access to image generation can produce polished material before developing a clear understanding of thumbnail concepts. The result can look competent while leaving the original strategic problem unsolved.

    Generation is not judgment. A convincing image does not establish that the right moment, audience, or emotional cue has been chosen. Those decisions still need an explanation that goes beyond the fact that the software produced something attractive.

    Carlini describes using Firefly within Photoshop for smaller edits and Magnific for upscaling or generation. The relevant lesson is her division of tasks, not a permanent ranking of software. Tools help her alter and assemble an image whose purpose still has to be decided.

    Do brings the discussion back to skills that outlast any particular application: composition, lighting, and storytelling. An expanding toolset does not make those concerns obsolete. It gives the designer more ways to execute decisions about them.

    The same distinction applies to hiring. Carlini acknowledges that some thumbnail designers offer execution rather than concept development. A client expecting original ideas can therefore be disappointed by a portfolio that mainly demonstrates the ability to reproduce a recognizable treatment.

    Those are different services, even when their finished files look similar.

    A useful portfolio has to make the designer's actual contribution legible. Carlini's own examples are persuasive because she can explain the role of the redness, the steam, the crossing barriers, and the trailing sports car. Each decision has a reason attached to it.

    For someone starting out, her recommendation is to make thumbnail drafts even without a client waiting for them. The immediate return is practice: stronger observation, a better-trained eye, and more control in Photoshop.

    • Create independent thumbnail concepts to build a portfolio.
    • Study the images closely enough to understand their choices.
    • Send a draft to a creator when there is a genuine case that it improves the existing concept.

    This is not a guarantee of employment or a prescription to flood creators with unsolicited work. The threshold she sets is qualitative. The draft should offer a better idea, not merely demonstrate that the designer can operate the software.

    She also reports encountering creators who want less uniform, less perfectly edited imagery as AI-generated thumbnails become more alike. That observation is not a universal market forecast. It is a reminder that finish can become a liability when it makes distinct channels resemble one another.

    The answer is not to replace artificial polish with artificial roughness. That would simply turn another surface treatment into a rule. The stronger response is to know what the particular video needs and be able to defend the choices that express it.

    Before the next retouch, the designer should be able to name the moment, the tension, and the promise. Before the next generated image, the designer should know what would make the result wrong.

    A better-looking thumbnail is not automatically a better idea.

    TRANSCRIPT

    be better than AI, because also a lot of people, which is like the emergence of AI in the last few months, everybody is kind of making thumbnails that look the same and there's pushback from creators happening for it. So I think there is still a chance like AI is super daunting, but I think there's still like going to be a need for thumbnail designers for at least a couple more years, I'm hoping. My name is Brittany Carlini and you are listening to the future. So for people who don't know who you are, can you please introduce yourself, say your full name and tell us a little bit about your backstory? Yeah. So I'm Brittany Carlini. I've been a thumbnail strategist and designer full time since 2022, because that's when I went to my first vid summit. And so like prior to that, I was freelancing graphic design. But then I found this like YouTube world because my husband started a YouTube channel and I had the graphic design background and we couldn't afford to like outsource that to somebody. So I was like, OK, I'm going to teach myself Photoshop. And then I started doing thumbnails for him and they were quite bad for like a year and a half. But then they started getting good. And when they did, his friends kind of came out of the woodworks and they're like, yo, like who does your thumbnails? And if they knew I was doing them, they would ask if I had availability to do them for them as well. And then it kind of just started growing like that. And then that's when I went to the 2022 vid summit, got so inspired because that was my first like real YouTube experience. And also there's just such a market gap for thumbnails. So I was like, I think I'm just going to go all in and like really niche down and do that. That's amazing. OK, a lot of different things going on here. Yeah. So your husband was essentially the guinea pig in the time in which you worked on his channel. What did you learn from doing that that made the thumbnails start to work? I think really with thumbnails, it's a lot of reps. niche down and do that that's amazing okay a lot of different things going on here yeah so your husband was essentially the guinea pig in the time in which you worked on his channel what did you learn from doing that that made the thumbnails start to work i think really with thumbnails it's a lot of reps and like even with the designers i train there's so much i can teach them and show them but like at the end of the day kind of does become reps so like for me it took a year and a half of reps i had no references no one to like help guide me he had like a decent eye for packaging at the time so he helped me kind of get better with it and then he introduced his friend leon to me who was one of my first additional thumbnail clients and he had a really good eye for packaging and so when we started working together he was like really really intense with his feedback to me and at first i was kind of like put off by it because i thought i was doing things right from like my traditional graphic design background but what i learned is i actually had to like unlearn some stuff that i learned from traditional graphic design to make like a successful thumbnail because like there are a lot of overlapping principles and things but there are things that change like negative space doesn't really exist in thumbnails that's like we want to close up the gaps we don't want any breathing room to some extent but yeah i'm curious what leon said to you do you recall any of the specific things he said to you which was like yo bro step back but then it would turn out to be true probably like increasing the texture on his skin so like we'll use this video for an example he was doing a video on like focusing better or something like that or like how to decrease your dopamine dopamine detox something along those lines and the concept was him putting this microscopic pill like up to his eye and then the composition is this really like zoomed in image of his eye and like the the comparison between that and the pill and at first i think what i did was i just edited edited it in like a clean way where like i probably made his skin look good enhanced the colors the lighting but didn't really like adapt the details of that concept so like after so many and at first I think what I did was I just edited it edited it in like a clean way where like I probably made his skin look good enhanced the colors the lighting but didn't really like adapt to the details of that concept so like after so many revisions and notes from him we added like a bunch of very red veins to the eye we added additional redness to the eye just to show like stress or like sleep deprivation like the before taking the pill for the benefits so he had to walk me through a lot of like building upon the story because it's like maybe I was good at editing certain visual elements but I obviously had no grasp on like thumbnail concepts and like the psychology behind them and evoking intrigue there was this other thumbnail where he's like holding a bar of soap but it's made of steel and I don't remember like what the point of the video was or like the the uh topic or anything but it's basically just punched in composition of his hand holding this steel bar of soap and then the background is this like pink bath that like tile bathroom environment and again I probably just like edited that to look pretty visually like maybe I color corrected the hand one thing I do remember doing right is I really enhanced the texture on the steel soap to look even more recognizable like steel because I think whatever source image he sent me I don't think was immediately obvious that it was metal so that was a plus but he was like we should add again tension that's the word we use in the community and like in this world is that he wanted me to add more tension to it so that came with like adding a bunch of like scratches on his palms and just like visual damage and then I do think he even suggested the pink bathroom I think I probably had like a low contrast wall or background at first and he was like well let's do this it is bright and it's a little probably too saturated bright pink but at least it's like a recognizable environment and then he had me also add steam like behind I think I probably had like a low contrast wall or background at first and he was like well let's do this it is bright and it's a little probably too saturated bright pink but at least it's like a recognizable environment and then he had me also add steam like behind the hand like between the hand and the wall so that way it kind of looks like it like paints the picture that he's actually in the shower like mid using it like telling that story let me put you to the test if I may asking for a friend but let's say you had a video that was called you don't need a lifetime of therapy do this instead and it's with a therapist who has some radical approaches to therapy it could even be something kind of like something that showcases the aftermath if you were to do the pieces of advice that the therapist is sharing so maybe it is something a little bit more artistic not in like a an unserious way but like maybe there's a person sitting on a beach and the composition is super zoomed out and they're facing away they're just like looking at like looking out at the water as if to just something like kind of conceptual to show peace yeah so inner peace it could be a beach or it could be something a little bit more relatable any just sort of beautiful like beauty shot scenery that feels very meditative and relaxed now I'm going to ask you do something kind of strange which is unpack your thinking process why those words why those phrases why that scene so I think about things in sections of like different moments so it's like one moment we picture is maybe like the pre advice moment where I'd have to think about this a little bit more but maybe there's even a concept where the person is in despair there's some sort of imagery that indicates despair prior to the advice or then the next concept or category would be the actual advice being given so that's kind of like the first couple examples we talked about was like literally showcasing the advice and then there's like a subset of that where it's like maybe someone to the advice or then the next concept or category would be the actual advice being given so that's kind of like the first couple examples we talked about was like literally showcasing the advice and then there's like a subset of that where it's like maybe someone's actually implementing the advice with the journaling or whatever other habit we would brainstorm for them to be actively practicing and then there's like the aftermath moment the result basically like what could things look like or what could you feel like after implementing that advice and i do that even with jake's thumbnails for context jake builds very strange things he usually builds vehicles weapons or any sort of gadgets out of trash and so i'm always trying to brainstorm like what's going to show off his build the best and then sometimes if i run into kind of like a trickier build i break it down into like using it about to use it and then after using it so like a weapon like about to fire it mid firing it or the destruction after firing it so you're essentially scrubbing the timeline to finding to find the greatest moment of tension yeah so okay for example i don't know if a visual example would help but there's this one video where he built a jet powered car and it's basically this little go -kart and it has like 10 or 12 of those ryobi leaf blowers on it and it actually goes insanely fast and so for one of our concepts we did this is like an old video at this point it's like two years old the concept is like a behind three -quarter shot of jake in the cart in the jet powered car and he's like looking back at the viewer all like freaked out concerned because ahead of him is the railroad and the railroad crossing signs are like coming down like about to close so it provides the tension of like is he going to try to book it through that before they completely close all the way that's usually how i think of concepts okay yeah so that's your pre -action yeah it's like you're pulling back this slingshot yes holding it there yes you It's the tension of, like, is he going to try to book it through that before they completely close all the way? That's usually how I think of concepts. Okay. Yeah. So that's your pre -action moment? Pre -action, yeah. It's like you're pulling back this slingshot. Yes. You're holding it there. Yes. Lots of tension because something's going to go forward. Yes. And you construct a scene as which the vehicle is facing away from camera, but he looks back to get a little face value. Yeah. And a probably goofy expression like, ah. Nothing too over the top. I want it to be subtle and realistic. Really? With him, we, so stylistically, the way I actually edit it, it can afford to be somewhat stylized. I put together this, like, style spectrum for my thumbnail course I'm making. Basically, one end is the super raw, realistic screen grab thumbnail style that you could do. And then in the middle, I call that semi -stylized. It's kind of people like where me and my husband try to be, where I try to be with HopeScope. Again, just keeping in mind audience because they both have younger viewers and older viewers that enjoy the content. And then there's the other end of the spectrum, which is just, I think I just call it stylized. And that's kind of like the content that mostly appeals to kids. So, like, Matthew Beam, Ben Asler, creators like that. Stylistically, we try to aim for, like, that middle area. But I always want to keep the body language and the emotional reaction pretty realistic. Because I think with any audience, it just is going to sell it a bit better. And I think people will always watch aged up content. It's really hard for people to watch aged down content. So, yeah, I try to keep it very, like, realistic, accurate to the story. What you described makes perfect sense to me. And not obvious. But once you say it's like, yeah, duh. I think that's a sign of a good idea. Okay. So, you have it going somewhere and you add tension by the railroad crossing. You don't need to show the railroad. It's too complicated. The train coming. We all know that there's a finite amount of time. So, there's this sense of urgency and speed that needs to be conveyed without literally showing that. Yeah. Okay. Did you ever explore an aftermath on that one? Not an aftermath. But the other concept we did was omit. When you just show the railroad, it's too complicated, the train coming. We all know that there's a finite amount of time. So there's this sense of urgency and speed that needs to be conveyed without literally showing that. Yeah. Okay. Did you ever explore an aftermath on that one? Not an aftermath, but the other concept we did was a mid -action shot. So it's like a low angle of him, again, frontal three -quarter view. And he's got his helmet. In both of these concepts, he's wearing like a motorcycle helmet. But for the pre -action shot, it's up so that you can see his face and like that emotional expression that we've been talking about. But then in the mid -action shot, it's down. He's just looking forward. We've got a lot of like realistic motion blur and like debris being picked up from the pavement. And then we also have within like the smoke and the debris that he has like trailing behind him, I put a bright red sports car as if he like this crappy little build he made is beating a sports car, which we can get into why like it's okay to add details that didn't necessarily happen. Yeah. What is that? Clickbait? I think of clickbait as a spectrum. I don't think of it as a negative word. I think like you don't want to be super underwhelming and boring, but you also don't want to be like super misleading. I also think your thumbnail concept should represent the experience of the video rather than the literal outcome of the video. So that's why we feel comfortable putting in like slightly exaggerated details into our thumbnail concepts. Because, again, you also have to understand like the contents of your own video. Jake, he's very animated when building these builds. It's very fun. It's not really like there's some like aged up building channels to where it's all about like literal tools and the actual like in -depth processes. His is more he does showcase a little bit of that, but it's more fun. He does a lot of clone shots. And then there's also like this secondary lore that he's made or he's put into his videos for years. And it's literally like a made up comic book lore that he also is actually turning into a comic book currently. So that's why we feel comfortable with that. And then there's also like this secondary lore that he's made or he's put into his videos for years. And it's literally like a made up comic book lore that he also is actually turning into a comic book currently. So that's why we feel comfortable with that level of like exaggeration. Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile .com slash switch. Up front payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Default terms at mintmobile .com. So Drigo is wondering some of the advice you're giving right now, your whole process is going against what he believes to be best practices, which is something like where you want to pull a moment from the timeline and kind of build upon that so that when they see the video kind of it's not out of sync. How would you respond to that? I've definitely heard that as well. I think of it as like an added bonus. Like if you're making this video, that's super high lift, crazy, maybe never been done before. It would be great if that type of thing was kind of confirmed early on in the video. Like if you're making a video where you're setting some sort of world record and it's a 20 minute long video and you don't even like get to any sort of action of it until like 15 minutes in like the second half, then I probably wouldn't advise doing that. I'd say still make the video, but maybe just like try to introduce some like action shots earlier on. But everything else, again, it's like what I was saying with Jake, like the rest of the video, the energy is very exciting and the tone of it matches the thumbnail that we decide to go with. And I'll use this example too. There's this video where he made a mech suit. He built a mech suit. And so what that is, it's kind of like, I think it's like a robot suit. I think it's a gaming term, but he's sitting inside this crazy build. And like one arm is like this giant boxing glove fist that you can like punch out. And then on the other fist, there's like a cannon that like literally. he built a mech suit and so what that is it's kind of like i think it's like a robot suit i think it's a gaming term but he's sitting inside this crazy build and like one arm is like this giant boxing glove fist that you can like punch out and then on the other fist there's like a cannon that like literally launches like potatoes i think and so in the thumbnail it's him inside of it there's something launching out of the cannon there's motion blur on the big fist punching it's almost like he's in this dirt field and there's debris and like bricks and dirt piles all around him as if to insinuate he's broken yes yeah so no that didn't actually happen if anything the destruction in the videos is nothing compared to that it's kind of like usually he'll damage boxes through like things like that but the video is just so with his lore that he puts into it there's so much action happening within that and in the first like minute of the video there's again high action scenes happening with the lore i wish i could remember specifically what was happening but i remember writing it down that there's like with his characters there's like exciting action bits happening so that's again why we feel comfortable doing that so i would say try to confirm the click earlier on but it's not like a deal breaker i'm gonna go and share something that i the reason why i don't like these best practices things because there's industries that are way more established that we can look at and see what they do and i'm talking about movies because movies have existed longer than youtube yeah so there are different jobs that every person needs to do the job the director and the editors to make an incredible film the job of the marketing team is to get people to go to the theater to buy a ticket and so they will cut a different trailer they'll have different logos they'll have different posters and never once do you watch a poster or look at a poster it's like that's the film and if we think of some of the the great movie posters say alien the very first one directed by really scott you see this egg and you see cracks in it and then you see the line in space no one will hear you scream yeah that line is never said ever that egg is never presented that way it doesn't even quite look like that or look at a poster, it's like, that's the film. And if we think of some of the great movie posters, say Alien, the very first one directed by Ridley Scott, you see this egg and you see cracks in it and then you see the line in space, no one will hear you scream. That line is never said ever. That egg is never presented that way and doesn't even quite look like that. But it's captivating enough that it's like, what is coming out of the egg as it's cracking open? In Jaws, one of the big tentpole pictures from Steven Spielberg, there's a tiny woman swimming across horizontally so that we can see her. Then we see this behemoth beast come up. That never happens like that and the size of the shark relative to the person. But there's so much tension there. So the job of the marketing team is to get people to go to the movie to buy a ticket. And the job of the director and the editor is to get those people to have a great experience. Spielberg's job is once you're there, to keep you there and get you excited and talking about the film for days, weeks, months afterwards. So we're not in charge of that when we're talking about packaging. It's like you still have to make a good cookie. So if your cookie sucks, there's nothing I can do. I'm just packaging up crap. So if the editor doesn't do a good job of hooking you at the beginning, then there's new problems. Of course, I see the problem that Drigo's bringing up, which is you make a thumb and a title so good that they get into it. I was like, it's not living up to that. That's a problem. So if you overpromise something, clickbait, then it's a problem. Yeah. Okay. How would you like to respond to what he just brought up? Yeah. So I think like the best thumbnail and title in the world, even if it's accurate to the video, isn't going to save a bad video. So at that point, I would blame execution. If you know you made a solid video and it is just like not getting views, it's probably a packaging or a topic problem, but the video execution could be really good. But maybe the topic you decided to make the video on just isn't like super like popular or received, you know? And then you'll see if you have really high click -through rate, but then super low AVD. So like people, everyone's clicking on it, but then no one's staying to watch it. The packaging is probably misleading popular or received you know and then you'll see if you have really high click -through rate but then super low avd so like people everyone's clicking on it but then no one's staying to watch it the packaging's probably misleading or the video is falling super flat okay we're coming towards the end here i have a couple more questions for you talk about ai and how people are using ai to thumbnails yes so i personally use ai every day to work on my thumbnails it's super helpful to me i don't think i could make certain thumbnails without it personally i hope it doesn't get to the point where it starts understanding psychology of thumbnail concepts and like how to target certain audiences because that might be the day like out of a job however i will say there's people that are getting into thumbnail design like right now so they have immediate access to ai without any like prior training reps learning anything and i think that's also a problem because it's like they're generating images that like could potentially look good but they have no idea what they're even looking for when they generate the images so no matter how far ai goes i think it's super imperative that you have like the fundamental understandings of like thumbnails design everything because again you're just like not even gonna know what to look for when you're using ai drigo's experience with thumbnail designers have been say not so great that they charge what they charge and they show these examples but when actually comes to proving themselves in the work they fall apart they're good at copying and emulating but not actually coming with real ideas so what is your take on this how did you learn this so i will say there are a lot of people in the thumbnail design world that execute the design but unfortunately a lot of people don't like the concept part of it so they usually only offer the design execution but i think for me like it just bled over from the graphic design learning because like obviously we learn how to tell a story within a single image whether it's like a poster or even like a logo you know like you can kind of like tell a story within a logo or like a book cover so i think there's a lot of research to be done in that realm and usually how i the graphic design learning because like obviously we learn how to tell a story within a single image whether it's like a poster or even like a logo you know like you can kind of like tell a story within a logo or like a book cover so I think there's a lot of research to be done in that realm and usually how I tell people to like try to do that is I usually tell them to take their mind out of like being a YouTube either creator or designer and just put your mind in that of like a consumer and so you should scroll YouTube and analyze three things and one is like what's catching your eye why or why not why do you find it interesting or not interesting and then explain why or why not and then why did you ultimately end up clicking on the video or not and just kind of like analyzing your own habits as a consumer I think that helps a lot and then while you're doing that you write down the questions that are being evoked in your mind like what are you curious about and then let that's I think gonna inadvertently help you with like storytelling and putting intrigue in a thumbnail concept so you say use AI all the time what's your AI tech stack yeah so I love the literal firefly within photoshop beta I use that for a lot of little things like I use it for like removing it can't really generate like if you were to like highlight or select half the image it can't really generate that much information it does kind of a terrible job it does but they introduced Gemini and like flux within that same thing so instead of just using firefly you can use those in photoshop beta and those obviously do a really good job at generating images but what I mostly do is I go to the Magnific website and that's where I'll do like image upscaling or like image generation and I believe that's it oh pretty thin tech stack there yeah fascinating we got to get around copyright issues a lot so if you use a image from a famous person either the famous person come after you or the photographer and that's been the case so I often will use mid -journey to generate a version of it so it's referencing that but it's not those literal pixels and from that I can use Hicksfield or a lot so if you use a image from a famous person either the famous person come after you or the photographer and that's been the case so i often will use mid -journey to generate a version of it so it's referencing that but it's not those literal pixels and from that i can use hicksfield or or leonardo to uprez things using either topaz or the leonardo thing to uprez and you can use some of these ai engines to add more realistic pores of skin because sometimes it looks too airbrushed it looks too fake and you can do that and you can also use a combination of firefly and illustrator where you draw a vector drawing of the shape in the general direction that you want and it works really well when you do that you actually give it a starter shape and you give it a style reference and you say bang this out firefly's weakness is in just raw image generation this is not what it's good at and i think they are acknowledging that by allowing third -party ai generative engines in there yeah so we love hicksfield we love mid -journey all of a sudden open ai's come out with image 2 .0 and it's freaking rock solid i was ready to give up on them but my god is it good okay it's especially good with realism and typography okay it is nuts it's super sticky like if you give it a block of text it won't do that garbled text that mid -journey and all the other ais will do so every day there's a new tool something out there don't get obsessed with the tools learn the tool that you have that you have access to and just learn how to compose to light and to tell a story and you're going to have skills that are what is referred to as a durable skill so there's a lot of people who are out there concerned that it's harder and harder to get a job doing this because ai is producing everything it's kind of cutting out the bottom end what do you recommend for someone to do today to get started so they can get their first client i would just say be better than ai because also a lot of people which is like the emergence of ai in the last few months everybody is kind of making thumbnails that look the same and there's pushback from creators happening for it and they really just want things to look even more raw and realistic or if they want it to look edited they'd almost prefer for it to look kind of like not perfectly edited in photoshop so i think there is still a chance like ai is super daunting but i think there's still a like going to be a need for thumbnail designers for at least you They just want things to look even more raw and realistic. Or if they want it to look edited, they'd almost prefer for it to look kind of like not perfectly edited in Photoshop. So I think there is still a chance like AI is super daunting, but I think there's still like going to be a need for thumbnail designers for at least a couple more years, I'm hoping. But yeah, again, just to get started, like just make sure to build up your portfolio. Even if you don't DM these thumbnail drafts to creators, just make them on your own. Just to like train your eye, look at or like study what you're even looking at, train your observation skills, get your Photoshop skills enhanced, because I didn't even know Photoshop before I went into all of this. And then, yeah, if you ever feel like you made a concept better than what a creator currently has posted with, then feel free to send it to them. I found our conversation to be very stimulating. You got me thinking about how to look at thumbnails in a different way. So I'm grateful for that. And I just like your general demeanor about how you talk about things. If people are excited about this, Brittany, what can they do? How can they find you or work with you or enroll in a program? Yeah. So I am on Twitter. Pretty sure my username is Britt Carlini with two T's. Follow me on there. DM me on there. I am working on this thumbnail course. I have had it in my mind for like two years, but for some reason could not bring myself to start working on it until January. But I think I should be almost done with it in like the next few weeks, which is really exciting because I just want to get it out there. Now, with that said, I have to figure out where I'm going to host it. I'm thinking just some sort of education platform like Thinkific, Kajabi, one of those. I will post updates about that on my Twitter when I figure that out. So course launch to be determined sometime in the very near future. Probably by the time you see this, it'll be available because who knows when we'll get this out. Thanks for coming on the show. Appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you for having me. This is so full circle. So it's so fun.
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