When To Discuss Budget

So you integrated theconversation about the budgetinto the conversation orthe questioning itself.Or like at what stageof the questioningis it right to dropthe budget so that.So to see if they can afford it?Like how much timedo we invest in this?The bigger theengagement, the more time.The bigger theproblem, the more timeif you're getting a lotof unqualified leadsand then there's a problemwith your site, right?Is it your own people?Perhaps?OK so I start to talkabout the budget.As soon as I understandwhat the problem is.I try and figureout what the goalis, what the challenges are.And then I try to say,well, if this all happens.What's this going todo for your business?That's my segue into thebudget question, right?I wasn't really talkingto Jake for that long,was I in real time?No, probably 10 minutesin the diagnostic partof that conversation.It wasn't, so I would say thatyou do need to talk about moneyand you get over your fearof talking about moneyand you don't want tojust seem like you're allabout the money, so you need tounderstand the problem first.Yeah true measure ofvalue based pricing.Is what it's worthto the other person,so you can neverget to value baseprice if you don't understandthe other person's goals?well, do youunderstand their goals?You attach a priceto it, and you'regoing to get to this inthe business bootcamp,you're enrolled, right?Yeah, yeah, you'll get toit in week four or five.It's coming up.OK.And we go pretty deep in it.OK good.Who else?Because how do youhow do you help vetthose leads comingin because I'vetried doing like a dropdown onmy inquiry firm inquiry form,if they want to book atime for me on my calendarlike they have tomake a selection.And I notice, even if Isaid it at like 15 grand,they'll set it thereand then they'llcome in and say it's a$500 or $1,000 budget,or if I leave it blank,hoping people go biggerand I don't get a range.I get a lot of like,super unqualified needs.So how do you narrowthat funnel down?OK, how are people comingto your site, peter?Most of my inquiries are acombination of dribble directto my website or fromdribble to my website.OK I suspect that's thebeginning of the problembecause people are just lookingfor artists to work with,and they assume that there's alot of people from third worldcountries or whatever, andthey're the buying mindsetis a little different.Whereas if they foundyou on ad week or agencyspot or one ofthose things, it'sgoing to be a verydifferent kind of customer.So you kind of have to think.All right, I get it.Whenever I drop my lineinto this pool of water,the little fishbite all the time.And it's good to generate leadsto make it feel like thingsare happening for us.We need to go somewhere else.We need to go whereless people aretrying to do the same thing.So where might that be?So if you speak at a conferencebecause of the ticket price,because of thetime, you're goingto have alreadyautomatically have a higherprofile of customer to talk to.If you judge design shows andyou meet people in that room,that's even a highergroup of people.So you're justtalking about whereyou need to spend your time.So most of your leads arecoming from dribble or be hands.Might not get the kindof customers you want.Having said that, a friendof mine from farm designhas had a lot ofsuccess buildingamazing looking case studiesfor recognizable brands.So that is prequalifying, the customerlike, wow, heworked with Khalifa.He's worked with that brand.He's worked with Under Armour.I mean, he hasn't, butif you start to showcasethe more prominent brands.In in your body of work,they're going to say, whoa,we're no Nike.We can't affordthis, so you're goingto start to filter them out.So believe it or not,language appearance and designwill help you filterout the riffraff.How do I know this?Go into a Louis Vuitton storeor a Christian Dior store.Unless you're really wealthy.You're going tofeel intimidated.It's like, I don't knowif we can afford anythinglike that looks prettygood, but I can't evenlook at the price tag.Peter, have you ever done that?Have you ever gone into likea really high end store?Yes and do you feel that way?Yeah, you kind of just goin to laugh a little bitand then walk it out, right?OK so I'll tell you a coupleof really quick storiesabout this, and I want everybodyto listen again this storyand try to extract what they'redoing to me psychologicallyand what triggersall these things.I think I'm into mybusiness about two years,2 and 1/2 yearsinto my business,I think I already broke amillion dollars, if not more,in that period of time.And I'm going to shop forsuit at Barneys New York.It's on, I think, Rodeo Drive orBeverly Hills somewhere aroundthere, right?Santa Monica,Beverly Hills area.And I go in and just feellike, Oh my god, thisis a world I don'tknow anything about.And you see good lookingpeople well dressed like theydressed to go shopping.Here I'm walking andfeeling like, Oh man.Right so I'm superintimidated to be there.And so it's that poorimmigrant mentality of minethat I've carried through,even though financially.I made more money on thejob than the sales clerkhas made this year.I'm still intimidated becauseit's designed to intimidate youbecause they don'twant people goingin there looking for a bargain.It want people to pay fullprice for a designer pieceand not even thinkanything of it.That was many years ago.Fast forward totoday, I'm in Japan,were shopping at aChristian Dior store.Just checking it out.My son is carrying a drink,one of those tea drinkswith bubble Boba in it.As soon as you walk in,they're like, oh, I'm sorry,we don't allowdrinks in the store.Can I take that for you?And we'll give it back to youwhen you're done shopping.It sounds like OK, becausenormally you just leave itat the front of the doorand it'll still be there.They take it away.We go in, we're ridingdown a glass elevatorand it's just it's crazy.The lighting, everythingis just impeccablethe way that the clothesare spaced apart.It's almost like somebodytakes a ruler and measures eachand every one of thosethings, there's notone thing that's out of place.No pushy salespeople.But they're very attentive.You can tell thatthey're lookingto see if you need anything.As soon as you move.They offer us warmwater to drink.Because that'sthe thing in Asia.Don't drink cold water.Like, all right.That's the experience.And then want togo, OK, go ahead.No, no, sorry, I didn't realizeyou weren't finished there.Oh, so when I look at aimmerse a man handbag.It's like, Oh my God.The $1,200 for that bag.And the previous handbag that Ihave is like 300 and my wife'slike, you want tojust buy it, I'm like,oh, I just feel likeI need to buy it,but I don't want to buy it now.So, so helpful to me.And we talk alittle bit later on,I decided, you know, I don'twant to buy this the whole.Impulse buying kindof subsided and Iwas able to escape the store.They thank us.They all kind of walkand follows our bowing.And then as soon aswe're at the door,a person comes rushing over withthe napkin, holding the drink.They put that drink in therefrigerator for my son.That's what you'rereally buying.You're buying the feeling.You're buying thefeeling that you'vemade it, that you can affordthis and you deserve it.Because in raw materials,that bag costs $60.OK, Peter.Fire away.So I agree with all of that.I think.Maybe what I'm askingfor a little bit moreis there an in-betweenstep of that?I mean, I fully agree.Getting our websites,our portfoliosto have that Wow factor,the case studies, et cetera.And I've got clientslike Facebook and Toyota.And like other big names,I can't show all the work.So I just say, you know,I worked with Facebook,and that's right the mostthat I can do for now.But you know, is therea way to weed outsome of these clients comingin or to better prequalifyin addition to those steps?What does that look liketo you in your mind,if it's not those steps, ifit's not changing the language,if it's not mentioningwho you've worked with,if it's not showing photographsof things that you can showto say, you cannot afford us?What else are you looking for?I guess it would be, youknow, maybe questionsor ways to ask that aheadof getting on that call.So one thing that I'vedone in the last weekafter the video with Jonathanwas actually put those threequestions into that survey.So as they're bookingtime on my calendar,they have to answer those, andthat's been really helpful.Again, I feel likethe budget's the onethat not in aconversation forum,people find a wayto Dodge and avoid.And so that's kindof the struggle,and I've tried to figure outdifferent ways of positioning.If it's hey, myminimum is x, or youcan put other or hey, dueto the volume of callslike this isinformation I actuallywant to have because Idon't want to waste my time.I don't want to waste your time.A nicer way of saying that, butthat's really what you write.I'm trying to figure outif that's possible, ok?It is possible, and we'reactually doing the same thing.We're actually doingthe same thing.So we're kind of going together.The thing you wantto have happenis some kind ofquestionnaire thingand people go through that,but people will fill out.Questionnaires are not goingto be high budget clients.They're going to say, screw you,peter, they're gone already.They're they're going togo because like, obviously.You don't do reallybespoke thingsbecause you're havinga robot, a machine,and you're not valuing my time.So I would encourage you to moveaway from these dropdown menusbecause it's like theDMV or fill out a survey.It's like getting a root canal.Nobody wants to do that.But I like the idea ofsaying, OK, here's the deal.Our minimum levelengagement starts at.Love to work with you.Matthew, actually, we weretalking about this yesterday.He wants to change the wordingon blinds website to somethingwhere if you don'thave 200 thousand,we just cannot help you.You're not a good fitfor us financially.Because we're shifting ourbusiness away from serviceto product, and we don't wantto deal with all the inquiriesthat take up all ofour very valuable time.So they're going to have tofind a creative way to writethat isn't patronizing,that isn't too cocksureor whatever it is.To make that sound likethere's a good reason whywe can't do this anymore.So maybe something, if I'munderstanding that correctly,would be like theinquiry comes in.I reply back, you know,niceties, et cetera, and say,hey, my minimumengagement is this as longas that's something that ismet again, a better way to wordthat.But yeah, if so, here's alink to a time on my calendar.I'll remove out theother questions,because that's all stuff thatI can ask on the call havealready prequalified the cost.That's right.And then go from there andhave that be a process?Yeah so what Matthewis going to dois because we don't have thiskind of intermediate step,which is once they call oremail us, we have to respond.So he wants to put it righton the landing page somewhere.So it's like, in essence,it's saying, don't call usunless you can spend $200,000.So that we have to deal withit, so I like your thingwhere there is aninquiry and thenthere's maybe an autoresponse about a minimal levelof engagement.And if that's OK, then they canhave access to your calendaror whatever it isthat you're doing.Cool that sounds good.OK I think that could work.By the way, what's your emily?15 grand?And that's probablygoing up to 30 to 40in the next month or so.OK, so it's 30 grand.Yeah, so just say thatresetting that mindset, David,my partner in the bootcamp, is helping with that.Good you'll findsomething strange,it's like our abilityto adapt to situationis pretty incredible.The only thingthat we need to dois to change our own mindsetabout what we can adapt to.Because when I was just afresh new graduate from school,I think I was charging between20 and 30 bucks an hourfor freelance work, then Iwas like, that's not enough.And I kept raisingit and raising it.And now it's like,I just can't evenimagine a rate thatsomebody can pay methat I would feel likeit's too much like 10,000an hour is not enough for me.All right.I mainly just keep going, solet's keep opening our mind setand then we will fillin the space like whatJoel Hilgert saidon our show, whichis to charge likeyou're the bestand then acquire theskills to be the best.And the more you charge, thehigher quality of the clientyou'll get.Bottom line, I've gota follow up on that.I feel like there'salways like outliers.So 30 grand for doing strategyand branding or strategyand a small site orsomething like that.I'm totally on board with,but I won't necessarilyturn down a projectthat's like, hey, we justhave a single marketing page.We want you to work on that.And don't get me wrong, I'mnot going to do that for $1,000but I might be willingto do that for 10.I might be willingto do it for 15.So like, is it justthat you're choosingto no longer do those kinds ofprojects or how do you balance?I mean, that'sstill great money.So how do you balance that?Well, then your true Emilywill be 15, and that's fine.There's no point to say it's 30and then accept a 15 and a 10.You have to then realize youhave a finite amount of timein your life.So why sell a project for 10?When you can do adifferent project for 30,it will mean that youwill have more free timeand free time isreally important.Your intellectual capital isprobably the most valuablething you have, plus your time.When you're runningaround doing workthat isn't paying you whatyou're really, truly worth.You're robbingyourself of the abilityto think through otherkinds of problemsto start, to craft thelanguage or to build that casestudy that you need to.So I find that those thingsthat are below your thresholdare a quick fix.A temporary solution toa short term problem,but it's delaying thelong term solution.So it's always a question of isit really that that's your MLIor is it not so pickone and just say,you know what, I can't do it.I'm going to referyou to somebody else.Well, that makes sense, becauseI feel like that's like I said,that's an outlier, butif you were to say,hey, I want strategyand branding will,that number is now 30 40 grand.So it it is so situational,but I think that's good advice.OK it is.It is.And if you really like somebodylike, wow, I like your story,you're helping women.Battered women shelters.You're providingwater to childrenin third world countries.You had me at Helloand I'm just goingto do it because Ibelieve in your mission.Right that you thenvolunteer your timeand discount your rates.But that is also a veryinteresting thing to observe.So if it's a random client thatneeds some creative service,Eric, well, I'm goingto charge you the most,but if it's a random clientthat has a purpose or goal,I'm flexible.So if you've switchedthe lens around.Are you a random service?Or are you a servicewith a purpose?Because if you can createthat kind of stickiness,the cause, whatever it isthat you're trying to do.Maybe they will also feel likethere's no replacement for,so we will paywhatever Peter wants.That would be fantasticfor you, right?OK Anything else youguys want to talk about?Questions and answers,because I don't thinksqueeze in one more topic here.I had sort of just quickly anapologist for the night eating.Yeah is it?Yes, it is.I've got my daughterhere with me.Hi Hi.And she's got her club tonight.So just before we haveto run, I find quite whatI thought was quite anelegant solution to kickingtire kickers outbefore they even come.So I've just got no one onthe front page of my website,it says.Generally, my clientspent 10% of turnoveron marketing and advertising.So it's kind of what doyou take it seriouslybecause if you do great andif you don't, then that's OK,but we're going tobe wasting our time.And so far,anecdotally, I've heardthat seems to beworking quite well.That's the niceway to phrase that.So he's like,generally speaking,my clients spend 10% oftheir marketing budget.And was the rest of that,I didn't hear the rest.No, I don't have itright in front of me,but it's something along thelines of, generally speaking,my client spend 10%of their turnoveron marketing and advertising.Oh, 10% of theirturnover, I see.Yeah and then I also upfront saythat I work with one pro Bonoclient a year.And if anybody asks, I'vealready got them so well,I mean, I mean, I genuinelydo already have them.I work with.It's not a marketingploy, right?No, no, no, absolutely.No I give 10clients is pro Bono.Yeah, but but forme, truth, right?So it's kind of if somebodycomes and asks then and says,generally speaking, don't be.No, because there's alwaysgoing to be a queue.Yeah that's like yousaying, generallyonly date supermodels,but every once in a while,I get one ugly girl, but everyday the ugly girl this year.Wow no, no.I actually think that's avery smart way to phrase it.Yeah can anybody else?Bonnie's made it safelyto wherever she's going.No longer in the car.I've got another questionif no one else can.How do you dealwith clients thatstart to dissect your valueprice in terms of if you say,hey, it's going to be, let'smake up another $100,000and it takes five weeks.And from that, they can kindof formulate more or lessan hourly.Granted, there's they don't knowexactly how many hours you'respending or whatnot, butI feel like as a one manshop, that's kind ofan open topic for themto easily discover.I see, I see what they're tryingto do is figure out a priceformula, so they'regoing to break your priceformula, right?Yep 100 grand, and it'sgoing to take five weeksand they do the math.Wait a minute.He's charging $17,000 an hour.Is that the problem, peter?Yes OK.We need to do is weneed to get agreementon the goal, thevalue of the goaland then the price and thetactics are totally up to you.You are not selling time,you're selling the solutionto a problem.That's it.You're selling the results, andif they're bothered by that,you could just lookthem right in the eyeand say, look, I wrotefive weeks in the schedule,but it probably was only goingto take me 12 hours to do this.And what differencedoes that make to you?And if you feelbetter at night, Ican make the project last12 weeks, charge even more.I kind of strugglewith that answer,though, like I feel likethat always sounds goodwhen we talk to each other aboutit, like designer to designer.And I feel like if Isaid that to a client,they'd throw me the finger andlike, walk out of the room.Have you ever saidit's a client?I've never done it like thatbefore, though, so this is all.It's all new territory.This is it calledyour imagination?Yeah, Yeah.And so guru the yogi,he said that fearis a publicly acceptedform of insanitybecause we're imaginingthings that have yet to happenand we're treating themas if they're real.So it's a sociallyaccepted form of insanity.So if we see a personstanding in the corner talkingto themselves like, yeah,definitely definitely 12, 14,44 and yeah, you know,the homeless peopleare running around screamingand yelling at nobody.We're walking awaysaying that's crazy.So this is where you, peter, I'mdefinitely not going to work,definitely, they're going togive me the middle finger,it's definitelynot going to work.It's like, well, we don't knowthat, peter, we have no idea.But I do know something.Does Henry Ford quotehere, whether youbelieve you can or youcan't, you're right.OK you want to achieve it,you've got to believe it,you've got to just trustthe fricking processname of our show.You got to just trustthat it's going to work.Use your logic.Use the overcomingobjections modulethat you haven't taken yet tohelp you through that process.Now, somethingthat Jonathan starksaid on our show, which hasbeen reiterated by myselfand probably pretty much allthe books you on articles,white paper that you've readon consulting and value basedpricing, is this.Is it in the entire conversationduring the engagement?We are not going to talk aboutthe actual solution at all.We're going to talk about theproblem, how much value thereis, but we don't spendany time talking about,well, it's going tobe a website and we'lldo a click funnel page and it'sgoing to look like x, y and z.We don't do any of that.We just won't have clarity.The problem?And that's it.The work is figuring outhow to solve that problem,so there's no waythat we can do it.And then say it wasworth $10,000 later,we can't do that on a phone.It's not going to make sense.And if they insist know whatwe don't work with you like,fantastic.The salt wasteeach other's time.Now, like you usually throwone of those things in there,and if it doesn't work outwith your other vendor,give us a call.Just plant a little seedof doubt right there.Well, seed grows intoa mighty oak tree.The oak tree ofdoubt, like, gosh,what aren't we getting ifwe don't work with you guys?Why were those other vendors.So willing to do thisand they weren't.So do you not get into?You mentioned not getting intothe deliverables on the call.But do you specifythose out in your SJWor do you leave that kindof open for interpretationas well?No, no, no.Once you get into that, youhave to spell out as clearlyas possible.Clearly OK.And if you are of theJonathan Starr camp,if you charge so muchmoney, it doesn'tmatter what the scope ofwork is because you'regoing to do it till it's right.Because he said on that call.A project has goneone year over budget.It's supposed to takeone year to two years,but he was OK because he chargedenough money didn't matter.So I think the firstcall is to help.Help you help them understandtheir future desired state.To sign a price to that andthen to go away in the proposalpart, to write thethree approachesthat you're going to taketo give them three options.High, medium, and low.That's where weare like, OK, now,if we had crazy amountsof money to do this.What could we do?And you write that down.If we had no money to do this?You write that down is thecheapest, cheapest option.And really, what thosethree options are aboutis selling your attention.Like how much of yourattention are yougoing to pay to this project?It's really all it is.So somebody wants to book mein for a consulting, coachingcall.They're going to pay me$1,000 an hour for that hour.They have my fullundivided attention.If somebody's going tohit me up on Instagram,they're going to get 10seconds of my attention.Jonathan stark, he doesn'tthink where he charges clients,I think 7,000 or8,000 for six months.Unlimited calls.That's how he does it.