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Welcome to call 97 open agenda.
It's beautiful day.
We'll talk to you guys about
this idea about communication.
I'm going to stop
sharing this deck
so that we don't just look at
this thing or Zoom controls.
Soon OK.
All right.
At some point in this
discussion today.
This morning, talk
with you guys,
I'll be on Photoshop
drawing and writing things.
We'll talk about communication.
I heard something the other day.
I don't know if one of you guys
told me somebody shared a link.
Video I consume.
So much information now.
I'm having a hard time
deciding my references,
so I'll just try to share as
often as I can, as thoroughly
as I can.
But I can't remember
where I saw or heard this.
They said that
communication is not
the message that you transmit.
Communication is not
the words that you say.
Communication is the
reaction of the intended
target of the message.
So when they react
one way or the other,
that's communication, because
it doesn't really matter
what you say, how you say it.
But their reaction, so if you
don't like the communication,
change, the message.
Because if you don't
like their reaction,
change the message until you
get the reaction that you want.
So when I say something
and somebody is offended,
then I've said something
offended offending.
And I want to change that until
the reaction I get is like,
wow, that was enlightening,
that was inspiring.
You truly motivated me.
And so when you're talking to
a client, a colleague, a boss,
a subordinate.
Think about that.
Think about how
you're communicating,
what kind of reaction
are you getting?
OK so think about
that one last time.
Communication
isn't what you say,
it's not the message
that you're transmitting.
It's the reaction that you're
getting from the person
that you're sending
that message to.
So if you don't like the
reaction, change the message,
change the delivery, change the
tone, change the vocabulary,
change whatever you need
to change because that's
what I'm most interested in is
getting the desired reaction.
OK, the next idea I
want to talk to you
about is something called
slow digestion, hanging around
with Henry, and we're talking.
And he's like from New
Jersey, he's East coast,
he talks really fast.
Everything's super fast.
We have lunch together.
I look over.
His plate is gone.
It's gone.
He inhales his food.
And during our two
day coaching session,
he's got this
agenda list, and he
wants me to go through it
fast, fast, fast, fast.
And I said to him, I
can do all this stuff.
I'm concerned about
your ability to retain.
And he had to step
back and say, Oh my
gosh, I'm so slavishly
following my own agenda
that I'm not even thinking about
what it is that I'm learning.
So I said to you, to him,
when you came here today, you
want to get through
this and you have
a very clear idea in your
head as to how much you
have to get done.
But you've not
thought about what
is it that you're going to be
able to get like, you're just
concerned about the
destination and the journey
is lost in all of this?
And I'm concerned on
your behalf that when
you walk away from these
two sessions together, that.
You're not going to
remember a single thing,
you're not going to know
how to apply a single thing.
So we need to change this, we
need change the way you think,
the way you communicate,
the way that you
think done looks like
how you define done,
how you eat everything.
And he was telling me
that he's read books.
He's listened to audiobooks over
and over again, and I ask him,
what do you remember?
He goes, I don't know, but
I keep listening to him.
So you see, it's like when
you're taking somebody
through a process like core
or logo design process.
Are you so concerned
about getting
to the final
destination that you
forget that there's another
human being involved
and they have feelings
and they have concerns
and they have legitimate?
Things that they're trying
to solve in their business,
and it's not just about
you trying to get done.
Some of the resentment
that we feel.
When we're doing a
process and the process
is taking longer
than we think, it's
mostly coming from
a we're not feeling
like we're making
enough progress
and B we're not
getting paid enough
because at a certain point, you
can pay me so much money that I
say take as long as you want.
No problem.
We'll go as low or
as fast as you want.
We're not in a rush.
So let's just think
about slow digestion.
And when somebody in
discovery says something
that is off your agenda.
But it's a really interesting
idea or a problem.
Or a personal issue?
Don't be so quick to jam
them through the process
and finish the thing.
Take a minute leaning
on that and go deep.
And who cares about the agenda?
It'll be OK if you spend
another 30 minutes,
if you spend another 10 minutes.
It'll be OK.
Recently put out a tweet.
And the tweet said
something like,
do you prefer to read 10
books and retain one idea,
would you prefer to read one
book and retain 10 ideas?
And the last little
story I'll tell
you is this you guys know this
because you hear the way that I
speak and the ideas that I
share with you, that I've
been heavily
influenced by the book
win without pitching
manifesto by Blair ends.
And as soon as I finished
reading that book,
my mind was like different.
There was a definite shift, a
seismic shift within my brain.
So I go to the people
who sell us, my account
director and my
executive producer,
and I said, please read
this book is amazing.
And let's talk afterwards.
So I can help clarify
anything that you guys might
have questions with.
So week and a half goes
by and you guys know,
if you read the book
before it takes probably
30 minutes to read.
It's a really quick read.
We go into the
conference room, we chat.
They both read the book,
you read the book, yes,
read the book, liked it.
That's fantastic.
Tell me one idea.
That impacted you.
I look at my executive producer
who had a little bit more time
to think about it and read.
He looked at me dumbfounded.
And I'm like, anything goes.
I don't know.
Give me.
I didn't know, you're going
to ask us that question.
I'm not quite.
That's fine.
I'm not like putting
you on a spot.
This isn't a test.
There's no grades here.
I turned to my account
director and said,
what's one thing that you got?
And she's like, I mean, I'm not.
I'm good at consuming
information,
but I can't just I just can't
quote the book like that.
I don't work like that.
I said, that's fine.
You don't need to
quote the book.
What's the essence of like
one idea that you read?
And she's like, I don't
know, I can't say so, I said,
you guys want time to think
about it a little bit.
They both looked at each
other and looked at me,
and it's like that
was pointless.
And I couldn't help
but to think like,
why did they read this book?
What do they get if you can't
tell me one idea from the book?
And I think because
they read the book
with the intention of
completing the book so that they
can cross something off a list.
But had they read
the book like, I
want to learn
something new today,
I'm going to apply
a concept from this.
I might want to teach
something from this you
read with different intention.
That got me to think, and
I've floated this idea
in front of you
guys before, which
is this is that when you
watch a video, when you watch
a film, when you listen to
a Ted Talk or a podcast,
when you read a book,
what's your goal?
What's your goal in
reading that book, is it
to say, I have
read this book, is
it to say that I finished
reading a book a week,
which is what I wanted to do?
Is your goal to apply
something you've
learned to help your
life, your business,
your mindset for the better?
Is that what you're doing?
Are you reading the
book because you
want to teach somebody
something from the book?
Oh, so that's where the
difference might be.
So Henry was listening
to audible books, where
he's reading books to try to
memorize parts of the book
because he wanted to have
a script ready to go.
That's what he was
reading it for, perhaps.
And when I read and
consume information,
it's really about because
I need to teach it.
So the minute, the
second after I read it.
Unable to apply it and
teach it to somebody.
That's how I read, so it
takes me a long time to read.
Of course, naturally, because
I need to really understand
the concept.
Because you don't know something
unless you can explain it
simply to someone else, right?
OK, so we read with intent
to learn and to teach.
How might we act on this?
Well, for some of you,
it'll be really easy
because you can convert it
into a graphic, a drawing
and illustration.
You can type it up as a tweet.
You can make an Instagram post.
For some, like Michael
Desmond, who can make a video,
you might start to
think like, hey,
so here's something I read in
this book and it said this.
And this is really important.
Let me quote it for you.
And here's my take
on it, and here's
how I'm applying it in my life.
Some of you might go in front
of a classroom like Diane
and teach something
from the book.
Somebody might stand on
stage and give a Keynote
presentation.
That makes sense.
So the problem with Henry is he
doesn't have a regular outlet.
To teach other people.
So he doesn't need to teach.
So my tip to him was,
you have a podcast.
You have live
streaming capabilities.
Why not just hold mini
classrooms, mini workshops
so you don't have to charge
any money for just how people
jump on a video conference and
have them ask you questions?
Now, when you read,
you'll be prepared.
Because, you know, you
need to help somebody else
and you need to share
that information.
So next time you guys go
read something, think about
how can I apply this?
How can I share this because
ideas are worth sharing, right?
If they're good ideas?
Share it with somebody.
Now I'm going to
segue into something
and then I want to open
up for some questions.
And then we will go down
the list of hot questions
to answer.
I can't remember
who posted this,
but they posted
right on the thread.
They said, Chris, what
are you doing with seo?
Like, how are your post
the two most recent ones
getting so much attention?
How is that possible?
What are you doing meta tagging?
What are you doing right?
Who ask that question?
Are you online?
Yeah, that was me aqueous humor.
Yeah perfect.
OK what do you want to know and
tell me a little bit about why
you want to know it?
And then I'll tell you
everything you want to know.
Yeah so I'm trying to start
white white blocks also
to get some inbound
marketing into the funnel.
Yes so I'm looking
at your post now
and I'm trying to dissect
everything that's in there,
and I just want to
know the nitty gritty,
like how is your process
for creating that post?
Like, how are you
doing your research?
How do you determine
what keyword?
What is the structure like?
I'm trying to figure
out how I should build
my beautiful,
beautiful, so I'm going
to pull up these two things.
Give me one second.
Let's see how
organized I am here.
Very good question, so it's
a natural segway, right?
So the first thing
I'm going to tell you
is that I consume
lots of information
from very wide sources, and
I don't know if you know this
and you guys probably
do a similar thing
when you're on a website,
you might bookmark it right
or you might add it
to your reading list.
Right, we do that right,
everybody does that.
I do it and my
bookmarks get filled up,
my reading list gets filled
up, I'm like, Oh my god,
where did I put this thing?
I can't seem to find it.
And when you're in desperation
mode, which I often am,
I'm preparing for a talk
like, where's that graphic?
Where's that quote?
Can't find it.
So now I do something
a little bit different.
When you go on to a website,
you can hit, at least on the Mac
and using safari, you
can hit Command p,
which is the print it.
And then instead of
printing because I
don't like to waste
paper, there's
an option to save this PDF.
I was telling
Henry this, he said
you could do that, I'm like,
yeah, you could do that man,
save us pdaf, then it
saves it wherever you want.
And then I title it
something, something really
clear with lots of words.
And I use hyphens.
So that it's very searchable.
And then I dump it into a
folder, very specific hole
that it's called
research and reference.
It's been sitting there, so
as many of you guys have,
it's a giant repository
of ideas and things
that I like that you like.
So the other day, I'm
just driving myself nuts
because I'm so disorganized,
my god, my folders as a mess
start organizing these things.
And so there it is this thing
because I was researching
for one of my talks, but the
difference between amateurs
and professionals.
And there is that post.
I open it up and
it's really ugly
because it's a really ugly blog
post, as most blog posts are.
And there's lots
of things on there.
I don't even agree
with all of them.
But I know it's an
interesting talking point.
It's going to polarize
people because people
who feel that they're amateurs
and want to be professionals,
they're feeling like you're
leaving me out and I feel bad.
And then the professionals who
exhibit traits of an amateur.
Who feel like I'm
a professional, how
dare you call me an amateur?
This is not even my idea.
I know it's going to
be like a lightning
rod for a conversation.
So I do what I do,
as I always do,
I just throw it into
Illustrator and start laying it
out and using Helvetica.
And I just put it out
there, and I put it
out pretty late at night
because it's usually
when I have some free time
to do social post like this.
And then I pin it and
I just go to sleep.
And then I wake up, it's
like planting a seed
and in the morning
you're like, what?
What kind of fruit did
this seed bear this plant?
And you look at
it, it's like it's
going bananas and
people are angry at me
and people are loving it.
And I'm like, Wow.
It did exactly what
it's supposed to do,
which is to get people to talk.
I'm not even taking
a huge position on
whether it's right
or wrong, I guess
the assumption is if I share it,
I must believe it to be true.
And that's a false assumption.
Because I like to just agitate.
I want people to think I
want people to reflect back
on their life and their
own belief system,
and literally that's all I did.
You go.
I put it up on
Twitter, and I noticed
that because Twitter
and Facebook sometimes
are my testing ground for
ideas, if it's going to work,
should I put more effort
into something like this?
So I'm constantly doing
tests all the time.
I put something up.
I guess people want
more of this thing.
I can give you
more of this thing.
And what's happening
now is, I guess
I'm starting to hit
a certain level where
when I post
something on Twitter,
somebody is bound to
screen capture it.
And posted on Instagram
and posts on Facebook,
so now I have to beat
them to the punch.
It used to be I would use either
Facebook, Twitter or Instagram
to test an idea.
But now, because I
think I'm starting
to reach that threshold where
if I share it somewhere,
enough people grab it
and share it elsewhere.
And I at least want
to be the first person
to share it on the
different platforms.
So now I have to post on
LinkedIn, on Facebook,
on Instagram, I don't do
it Instagram, I'm sorry,
Facebook, Twitter and
LinkedIn really fast
because I want it to be the
origin source from a post
that I did.
I used a few
hashtags, mostly just
to help myself find it later.
But I'm not hacking anything.
There's no secrets there.
OK, and so for
some of you guys, I
don't know what
I'm talking about,
I'm going to pull this up.
And I'll tell you the
differences between these two
things.
And what I've learned thus far.
OK you see this right here.
The amateurs versus
the professionals
I'm always scared to when
I retype something in.
That I'm going to do a typo,
so I did spell checking,
I'm like double check, I'm
sure I messed up something.
And it's laid out really
simply, and there's something
that I think people look at,
if something is well-designed
or at least cleanly laid out
and set in Helvetica feels
superficial.
Because the blog post looks
like, but it really does.
So I give attribution
by Farnum straight,
and it linked back to it,
so hopefully the authors
of this thing, we'll see
that I'm driving traffic back
to them.
And I put it out there,
this thing has 1,300.
Looks like a bunch
of rideshares,
and it's just through the roof.
The engagement.
Because it got people upset.
Some people saw it as a way
to hold down creative people,
a small, small minority.
The majority saw like,
wow, I'm on the right path.
I'm mostly an amateur today, but
I see where the path is going.
Some people disagreed.
Some people have questions
about some of these things,
and I'm telling
you, I don't even
agree with all of these things.
And I'm not even saying
that to be a professional
is always a good
thing because amateurs
are the ones who make all the
innovative ideas in the world.
People who are young
in the profession
or from a totally
different field
are generally the ones who come
up with disruptive ideas that
change everything.
Give you an example, Steve
Jobs was not a telephone guy,
but he changed the
telephone industry.
OK, now some of my professional
colleagues on LinkedIn
said, Chris, I know you mean
well, but we don't like this.
I'm like, OK, tell me
how I should write it.
And I'll write it.
I'll lay it out.
I'm not attached to
this thing at all.
So somebody shared
this other one.
Come on.
My computer freeze,
what's going on?
There we go.
Somebody shared this other one
from artist duo Peter fishel,
fish Lee and David Weiss
how to work better.
This one is a lot
less offensive.
This is coming from
two fine artists.
This is the title of their
book for an exhibition
for the Guggenheim Museum.
This one is getting
love as well,
but it's not nearly as
engaged as the first one.
What does that tell you?
If you try to be nice and good
and kind and gentle and loving
to all people and people
like, that's cool.
But if you make
people make a decision
about which side of the
argument they want to live on,
do they hate this?
Do they love this?
Do they agree?
Do they disagree?
They get engaged and they
share and they comment.
And they criticize
and they add to it
the part of the conversation.
This post, as of this
morning, had eight comments.
This one has 73.
Chris, I have a question and
I wrote it down in my notes,
I didn't want to
interrupt, but I'm
itching to ask it OK,
which I feel like there's
a dichotomy going on based
on what you're saying
in regards to content creation.
And it's one you pulled
the Trump move, which
is to post to agitate.
I'm serious.
Like, that's what it sounds
like, which is really it like.
That's what fake news.
That's a false equivalency.
Fake news also.
But also the question
is, is it strength
to post from a place
of apathy in regards
to the end result you
want from your content?
Like you just said, I
don't care what it does,
I'm posting to
share information.
I didn't say, I don't
care what it does.
I did not say you don't
care like that engages,
or maybe I'm not.
I do care that engages.
That's what I do care.
That's all I want.
I want people to think.
I want people to ask questions.
I want people to wake
up from autopilot.
And I've learned something here.
See, so I wrote there,
hey, what's up chumps?
You're all amateurs unless
you think like a pro like me.
Then I clearly.
Stated my opinion on this thing.
now I try to I'm not perfect
because I'm not a writer.
I tried to write it carefully.
I don't always succeed
there, obviously,
because I get a lot of hate on
some of these social platforms.
I said, hey, this is an
interesting two minute read.
This is the original blog
post from this person.
I've just reformatted
it in helvetica,
so I'm literally telling
people what I did,
and I said, how
do you measure up
or how do you score or
something like that?
And that's it.
And they said, hey,
amateurs, if you're stuck,
this is what you need to
do, or this is what pros do,
so suck it.
I guess in relation to the
original question of seo,
like you're not going
out of your way,
you know, this perfect
post that gets traction,
but you're doing it to gain.
Somebody feedback, I guess.
Well, I'm doing it to
start a conversation
to see what the pain
points are in the world.
Now, here's the cool thing
about this for Hugo, who
asks this original
question, I don't sit here
and think this is going
to be the top of my funnel
and then have a content piece.
And then there's
a call to action
and there's a five email
soap opera sequence
that I'm going to give to you.
I don't look like that at all.
Because I'm not in that actually
the business of selling things
right, Ben, is he's helping
us to market and make sure
we have money.
But I'm just a content guy and
I'm going to stir things up.
I do piss off a lot of people.
I'm not going to lie
and I'm OK with that.
Because as you can see, the
engagement between these two
pieces of information is
one is doesn't I mean,
how can you be offended
by the other one?
It tells you to smile
and everything's OK and.
Be a good leader,
listen to people, ok?
A lot of things that
we all believe in
are and are true and no problem.
But it's when you
stir up the emotions
and you say, wow, you
have to make a decision.
And most of it's
positive, and you
have to realize you
have to be able to.
To be willing to
alienate some people,
if you have a point of view.
Watch this.
This is a very classic example.
I love chocolate ice cream.
You would think that's
not going to hurt anybody.
Everybody loves
chocolate, Chris.
Yeah, we all love chocolate.
And then there's going
to be some people where
it's like, I hate chocolate,
dude, vanilla or mint chip.
Rocky road.
And they want to argue with you.
Right, but if I say
ice cream is good,
most people will say fine.
And then there will be some
people who are like, well,
that's cruel to cows.
What are we doing,
dairy industry man?
So you see, it's like any
time you take a point of view,
somebody is bound to disagree
with you and I'm OK with that.
I've learned to
accept that that's
part of how we communicate,
especially on Twitter.
It can get really
nasty, really fast.
So, Hugo, I think you
guys think and I'm
flattered if you think this
that there's some genius
plan behind all these
things that I post
and I've hacked into the system.
No, I just post things that I
think will get people to talk.
And I adapting, so I
think through the lens
of a former recovering
graphic designer, if I just
made things a little more clean
and Swiss on my design, friends
and themes will come
out and comment on it.
One way or the other.
If I took the original image
and I did nothing to it,
I just reposted that, well,
I haven't transformed it
in the slightest and that's OK
too, because I do that as well.
But if I really want that
engagement, all I have to do
is clean up the layout
just a little bit.
I just have to put a
tiny little effort.
I'll give you guys
one more example
on content marketing, ok?
I love maksimovic,
Nelly, but I want
to be honest in terms of his
thinking and his point of view.
I'm fairly new to it, so I'm
searching one day about a year
and a half ago for
Massimo McNeely quotes.
And we go on Pinterest and
you see all these designs,
and then some look
like Massimo McNeely
and some look like some
design students who
don't understand how to design,
who try to design like Massimo.
And as a designer, I'm
a little offended by it.
Like, how dare you?
Here's a guy who
loves Helvetica bold.
Really tight letting.
And you said it in baldoni
or ghahraman or casselton.
What are you doing?
How dare you?
At least try to do it in
the spirit of massimo,
if you're a fan.
So as I'm looking
for like nice posters
to just download and reshare,
I couldn't find them so.
I searched a little bit, found
the Mossimo Giannulli canon.
Laid out the poster with
using red, white and Black.
And I just designed
them, some of them
took a little bit
longer than others,
but I did it all probably
10 or 12 layouts in a day.
No problem.
It's easy.
I put it out there
gets a lot of love.
So if you are able to tap
into two or more worlds, hugo?
Chances are you're going
to get some people excited.
So if you tap into
the world of design,
OK, we know all the tropes
that designers fall into.
Like layers, right?
You know that every
time you show anything
about layer management
and Photoshop,
the designers get,
oh, it's us, you know,
too many layers or numbered
labeled layers or the joke
that keeps living forever.
Final, final, final, Final Four.
Real final, final file naming.
Those are things that designers
get all like hot about.
Or typos?
They get crazy about that,
so in some instances,
rarely I'll introduce a typo
because they'll go insane.
They'll go insane
because they're we they
us are obsessive compulsive.
And everybody wants to show
you how smart they are,
how good of it is,
I know whether they
can spot something.
Right away, they
want to say some,
so you bring something from
psychology, philosophy,
literature, film, history and
you smash those two together.
People are going to engage.
OK hey, Chris, just a
follow up question on it,
so I understand pitting
two ideas two point of view
to attract engagement,
but you're not
taking a stand on it, correct?
You're letting it.
I'm trying a new idea.
Yes, usually I take
a stand, but so.
So what does that do in
terms of for you to post?
What is the post do for you?
Because you're not
taking a stand,
you're not establishing
expertise or any?
So what does that actually do?
Oh, but Au contraire, Mon frere.
I bring something to the
consciousness of people
all of a sudden people who
don't know me or was like,
who's this guy?
What do you find?
This is an interesting thing.
I would see.
So here's the
weird thing you go.
People assume I authored it,
even though I to say I did not.
Clearly OK.
And then they assume I'm
taking a position one
way or the other, even
though I tried not to.
And so they imply or they
assume all these kinds
of things about you.
Right?
so what's going to happen now?
Some marketing executive.
And this is happening
because they're asking,
can you make this a
downloadable PDF or this is
a screensaver from my iphone?
I'll make it for you.
So now I can make a downloadable
piece of content for free.
And Ben can capture the emails.
See how that works.
I know what they're engaged in.
I also now know what
the argument is,
and I can write a blog
post about it for real now.
And I can write
this little story.
So I found this thing.
I wrote this thing.
It got me to think more deeply
about what is an amateur?
What's a professional?
What is immaturity, maturity
and do these things matter,
and I can write a whole
blog post about it
now because they're helping
to do all my research.
I'm getting real time
user testing feedback.
On social media.
And I know there's not a lot
of people crying or going crazy
about it one way or the other.
I'm not going to spend time
writing a blog post on this
because nobody cares.
Nobody cares.
So every piece of
content that I put out
is the conversation
that needs to continue.
If it's a good conversation.
So a lot of people
think inbound marketing,
content marketing is just
talking all the time.
So that's one thing that
I think I do pretty good.
Which is I listen, so
they talk, I talk back.
They talk, I talk back
and this is how I do it.
So the person who said,
Chris, we expect more of you.
We know you're a good person,
but we don't agree with this.
Then I ask them, what
would you like to see?
How would you like
to change things?
I'll do it, I'll change it.
No problem.
Whoa OK, so there's
no absolute with you.
I'm like, no.
Sometimes I feel
this way tomorrow.
I can feel totally differently.
No problem.
I can change it.
I don't think I have
some kind of divine right
to say what is good
and what is bad.
I just have my opinion.
And that's totally OK.
You followed me, Hugo.
So people who ask to download
this thing now, I might not
that I want this part of it, but
let's say I'm looking for work.
A CMO might have
this and she might
have problems with her team.
You guys behave like amateurs.
Print us out, boom tape,
take this on the wall.
Now, prior to that
moment in time,
she doesn't know me from squat.
But now I'm starting
to bubble up.
Two, three, four more
pieces of content.
She might stop and
think, who is this guy?
Let me look at this dude,
Chris, though, and then
find the future and like, whoa!
And then she might
say, let's get him in
to speak to our team
about this thing.
Let's purchase some courses,
let's look in for an event,
let's have him consult. Third
party content game to me
is very long.
It's not about I got
a product to sell,
I'm going to make this thing
and then boom, there it is.
Now I know there are a lot
of people who do it that way,
and they're very good at that.
I'm just not that good
at that kind of thing.