OK thumbs up, all right.
Yes, yes, Yes.
All right.
OK I think we're
on call number 1.
I didn't label the last
call, which was two.
I think we're on call 1.
We're going to continue talking
about sales and objections.
Just a quick recap.
In case you weren't
there for the first
or the second call on this,
this is the third call
we talked about Raging Bull.
OK actually, before I
do that, the whole thing
I want to teach you about how
to deal with sales objections
is to be more curious and
to ask more questions.
This is critical to be more
curious, to ask more questions.
This is critical
to your success.
No answers, just more questions.
And today we're going to do
something a little different.
I woke up in the dream state.
I think I figured
out how to do this.
And what we'll
see today is going
to be a little bit
of an experiment.
And I think will work well.
OK so the first thing that
you want to be aware of
is this concept called
the Raging Bull.
It's one of the six
ways that I teach
about how to overcome
sales objections,
and I call it the Socratic six.
So number one is
the raging bull,
and this is the person
who's coming in at you
with a lot of emotion
that could be anxious.
They could be sad.
They could be angry, more
often than not, they're angry
or they're being
really disrespectful.
They're in a rush.
The mistake that you would
do would be to ignore this.
Or would you want to do?
I'm using Chris Voss
language here is
you want to label the emotion.
You just want to identify what's
going on because you're feeling
it and to not respond to that.
The other person goes unchecked.
They're not aware that they're
putting out this energy
or they are aware, and they
need to just be gently reminded
that when you're reading it.
And so oftentimes if they come
in and they're really angry
and you can just ask them,
like, is everything ok?
Sounds like something's
upsetting you?
And since we just met,
maybe I did something
inadvertently I didn't know.
Or they're like, really,
they're really depressed
about something, they're sad.
And if you were just a continue
moving forward with a cell,
you're totally
missing a moment here
and they're going to
feel disconnected.
The thing is, you want to build
this thread between the two
of you.
And the more threads
that you're able to build
a stronger the connection is.
So if you're talking
about pricing or something
and you just feel them
withdraw and you just
keep pushing forward and
you keep pushing forward,
you send in the proposal
and then they ghost on you.
And I hear about this all
the time on the internet.
Oh, my clients ghosted on me
after I sent them the proposal.
And almost every
single time when
I hear that, I know that it's a
failing of the creative person,
not the failing of the
prospective client.
You have an agenda,
you're like a train.
You can't stop and you keep
pushing, pushing, pushing.
So if you feel like the
person is like having an issue
and you can tell.
You can tell, because if it's
not genuine, enthusiastic, yes,
let's do this.
That's right.
I'm comfortable with that.
I'm loving this.
Then it's not a positive.
And so I'm listening
for those breaths
that somebody will
take like the.
Yeah, I think I can do that.
See, that's hesitation.
That's politeness.
That's like social norms.
And if you don't pick
up on that right away,
you're going to lose the sale.
So whenever I hear hesitation,
I'll say something like, oh,
is it me or are you
uncomfortable with this number?
Like, well, you know,
to tell you the truth.
This is way more money than I
thought I was going to spend.
What were you hoping
that would come in for?
Then you open the
dialogue and you
keep doing this until you feel
like, Oh yeah, that's the no.
Or that's the approach.
I think I'm going to recommend
you guys over the competitors.
So this is where you have to tap
into your inner emotional self
and empathize and
be really attentive
to these microexpressions.
And if you notice
any change in energy,
you have to talk about it.
Some other ways that
you can talk about
is, would say something
like, it sounds like it seems
to me like it appears like.
Labeled emotion and so that we
can talk about it and speaking,
the motion diffuses the
energy of the emotion.
OK so when there's a negative
energy, you can just feel it
and you just say it out loud.
All of a sudden it's like,
Oh yeah, you're right,
I'm in a rush.
You know what?
This is not fair to you.
Let's let's
reschedule this call.
I want to be in a better
state, a mental state.
And you say, OK, happy to.
OK, the next one
that we talked about
was the double down, which
we tried to practice,
but it got all out of control.
So we'll talk about the
double down, the double down,
if you just think about it
is like, I agree with you
and I can't fight
with you or you
can't fight with me if we're
both in agreement, right?
So the example of this is
that's a really high price.
And you would just say what
that is a really high price.
What price were you hoping for?
Oh, this is really complicated.
OK, I can see how
this is complicated.
Let's try and simplify this.
Where am I losing you?
I just agree.
And more.
More often than not, if
you ever listen to me,
do the live sales role
play with real clients?
You hear that I agree
a lot and that's
how I flip the conversation.
Because before we can move
to where you want to go,
the pivot, I have
to first embrace.
So I'm going to embrace
what you have to say.
So it kind of sounds
something like this,
like just agree with them.
It doesn't matter what they say.
Just agree.
And then as a follow up
question like what or how
or when or where?
I would say stay away
from the why question, why
questions are dangerous until,
you know, how to use them, ok?
And so what I'm going to do
today is I'm going to tell you,
I'm just going to teach you
from one of our courses, ok?
It's the $500 course.
It's part of the
business bootcamp.
I'm going to teach
it to you today.
And if you think, Oh my god, I
need this for whatever reason
more than what we did today, you
can buy the course if you want.
I have a typo here.
Let me just fix this real quick.
All right, we're back.
So this is the six you
can screen capture this,
this will be a good time
to screen capture this
and then you master
the principles
and mastering the
principles is just really
about getting in
enough repetitions.
So many of us don't have
enough business opportunities.
So when we're presented
with a problem,
we're like, scream,
like, Oh my God.
And then we go to like default
script mode, which isn't really
about being present.
OK, now when you see me do a
role play, you could sit there
and you could probably
identify one of the six
or a combination of two.
But I'm not sitting
there thinking,
oh, it's the Raging Bull card.
I need to play that or I
got to do the yin yang.
I'm not thinking like that.
Essentially, what
happened was I was
on a flight from
Madrid to Barcelona
or something like that.
And I sat down to
think, like, how
is it that I'm able
to do this because I
want to teach other people
how to deal with objections.
I've done hundreds of client
calls for millions of dollars.
It kind of boils down
to these six things.
That's why I'd call
it the Socratic six,
and they're all question based.
They're just reminders
for you to ask questions.
OK, here they go.
And I'll explain them.
I've already
explained number one
and number two the Raging
Bull and doubling down
the double down.
Ok?
the Hall of mirrors is when
somebody asks you a question
and you have no answer.
You don't know what to do.
It's the Hall of mirrors says
if they ask the question,
you just asked the same
question back at them.
And the reason why is
people love to tell you
their ideas and their opinions.
They love to give you answers.
So if you're throwing a
really difficult question,
all you do is ask
the question back.
It takes a little creativity.
But you just ask the
question right back at them.
Write the yin YANG
is a logic argument,
you know, that
symbol yin yin yang,
it's like equal Black
parts and white parts.
It's really a beautiful symbol.
And it's a logic argument
that says, if this is true,
then the opposite
must be untrue.
The opposite must be false.
So what I'm doing, oftentimes
when I'm debating or arguing
with someone is I'm looking
for the one thing that
makes their statement untrue.
This is like a science
approach, right?
So the other day I was
on a clubhouse call
and there was a woman
who was a reporter.
She was living in
Malaysia, and she
had said something like, I want
to grow my social influence.
But here in Malaysia,
especially because I'm
a reporter as an influencer.
It has a really
negative connotation.
So what should I do?
OK, so if you accept that
statement to be true,
you will start to try to answer
that question in my mind.
I hold a healthy
amount of suspicion
that most people don't
truly think through what
it is that they think and say.
So it's actually much easier for
me not to prove that I'm right,
but to prove that they're wrong.
OK, so Lolo was in that room,
I don't know Lola's here right
now, but Lolo is giving a
bunch of different answers.
And very good advice, very
sound in the whole time
she was talking.
It gave me time to think.
All I do is think
about like, is there
an instance where somebody
of note like a journalist?
Can be an influencer
in it for not
for it to feel icky or
gross or anything else.
OK, so here's what I asked, or
I only asked her one question.
Ask this question is said are
authors considered influential?
And she's like, OK,
you're right, I'm dying.
And that was it.
I was just looking for
what if this is true
is the equal and opposite truth.
I'm looking for the one
way where it isn't true.
And I can break the argument.
I can break the thinking.
And then she's like, OK,
OK, let me try again.
Let me say this.
And then we did
it one more time.
And then she said,
OK, I give up.
You're right.
And this is the Queen's Gambit.
In my mind, I'm searching
for the move that's
going to checkmate, and I
was telling Mo this story.
He's like, it's so funny
how you're able to do this,
how can you see the move?
I'm looking for the move that
I know that they can't win.
When it comes to me, then
I asked him that question
and then they're stuck.
I already know the game is over.
Just they don't know it yet.
That's why they fight.
Same thing with Lola,
give you another example
before Lola joined the group.
Lola asked this question.
Her question was,
you know, after I
finished doing work for
a client and establish
these really clear boundaries
as to what it's supposed to do,
and then I give it to them.
And then afterwards,
it's like they ruin it.
How can I prevent
them from doing this?
Because it's really
bothering me?
OK OK, on the surface,
it seems very reasonable.
And you may yourself
have thought this too,
like, oh, I delivered
to the website,
and now it's a
different website.
I gave them an identity
to design system
and then they changed it.
I wrote them the messaging
like how to write copy.
I gave them 10 examples.
I gave them guidelines
and then now it's ruined.
And so I asked soliola
a few questions,
but I'll tell you afterwards
what was going on in my mind.
Ok?
the question that I asked
her first was do you,
did you get paid to do this?
She goes, Yes.
The full amount, Yes.
OK and do you consider
what you've done as a gift?
She goes, why?
I wouldn't call it a gift.
I'm like, OK, how about a tool?
She goes, OK, I
can accept a tool.
See, Lola knew that
the CheckMate move
was coming because as soon
as she would agree to,
it's a gift.
She knew the next move.
So we're playing chess
with each other, right?
She would not agree
to the word gift
because she knew if you
give someone a gift,
it's no longer yours.
You give it in the spirit of
generosity with a whole heart.
And it's whatever they want
to do with that at that point.
So so she wouldn't
agree to the word gift,
so she said it is a tool.
I said it was fairly paid for.
So what ownership do
you have over that tool.
Once you've sold it, like
if you go in the store
and you buy a tool from the
shop, keep whose tool is it?
She goes, you're right.
I said, OK, so if we change
our energy around this,
maybe it's an opportunity
for us to open up
a dialogue with the client
instead of being angry at them.
Maybe we can look at it through
the lens of their confused.
Maybe they need
help when they just
don't know what's obvious to
you is not obvious to them.
Why don't you call them up?
And with that, Lolo
was able to move on.
OK all right, the next
one is called the wolf.
You know what wolfs do or
wolves do they howl, right?
Oh, that's what they do.
They howl.
So whenever you're asked
to do something ridiculous,
like, hey, yeah, cut the budget
in half, we could do this.
What are you going to do?
You're going to be the
wolf are going to ask how?
How that's what
you're going to do.
Like, how do you propose?
How do you propose?
I could cut the budget in half.
How do you propose I can
deliver this in half the time?
How do you propose I do this
without any additional help?
Whatever the ridiculous
objection that you're hearing
and in fact, this is the
most insane thing I can hear.
Just ask them, how
do you propose how?
Just keep asking how ok?
And the last one, the
reason why it's last
is the trickiest
one to pull off,
and it's the five-year-old.
Now you could be single
without children.
You know how children behave.
It's all the same.
Right you need to go to sleep.
Why, dad, you need to eat
these vegetables, why dad,
you need to floss, why
you just keep asking why?
But the tone here has to be
like nailed, because if you
ask why, with the
wrong tone, it's
going to put the other
person in a defensive state.
So the way that I do that
is you ask why slowly?
OK, you have to put
some pause in there.
And if they say something crazy.
Like, we really need
to make this video.
why do you think you
need to make a video?
And then they going to explain
it, and more often than not,
when you ask the person
why in the right tone,
it will stop them
dead in their tracks
because most people don't think
why they need to do something,
they just need to do something.
This is why a lot of us
get caught up in busy work.
So that's the five-year-old.
OK, so this is the
Socratic six, right?
So what I want to do is I'm
going to stop this right now.
I'm going to first take
some questions from you.
And then.
I'm going to do
a live role play.
I'm going to explain
what's going on.
And then I'm going to create a
breakout room where all of us
are going to go into and
we're to work with each other.
Here's the thing.
It's $150 to be
part of this group.
And I've said this before, if
I can't earn you more than $150
worth of value.
You need to leave.
We need to not see
each other anymore.
So I think the fastest way I
can earn like a full year's
membership with you so
that you don't leave
is to help you win one job
for a little bit more money.
And then I just wash my hands.
Right?
some of this.
I worked with my business
coach for 13 years.
The business coach paid for 13
years in his first or second
major consultation with me,
and I booked him for 13 years,
not because I needed
help for 13 years
is because he
already paid for it.
In the first year
I worked with them,
he taught me how
to ask questions,
and it went from $2.2
million to $3.9 million.
So he helped me to grow in
a way that I could not grow.
He gave me a tool, a
weapon, a device, a tactic,
and I applied it
over and over again
and I just kept winning work.
And in the jobs has
got bigger and bigger.
So that's how he and
I wound up working
and why I wound up paying
him more than a quarter
of a million.
OK because he already
earned it for me.
The rest was just what
they say is gravy.
OK so I want to do
a live role play.
I want to see somebody
who's done a lot of work
with clients who are just nasty,
mean impossible to deal with.
I will help you.
And then we'll break
it down, and then we're
going to create 30
for breakout rooms.
And then I send you
in there, but we're
going to do something
a little tricky.
This time.
I'm not going to tell you just
yet, and hopefully it works.
All right.
OK, so if you have a
lot of client experience
and they keep throwing
a problem at you,
but you're not able
to solve it and you
keep losing work
because of this,
I want you to think about it.
Don't do anything yet.
Just think about
it, be very clear,
you know who this person is.
And then I want you to
just raise your hand.
And we're going to
be in the pocket.
Now here's the rule when we
do role plays with each other,
if you break role
play, you're going
to get put on my naughty list.
When Christmas comes
around, you're not
going to get a gift from me.
You cannot break role play.
You stay in the mind
of the clients method.
You go full method.
You pull a Christian
bale, you do not
break character no matter what.
Not for lunch.
Not for bathroom.
You stay in character.
OK, now nobody's going
to raise their hand.
Now I just want to
give everyone time
to think because usually people
get sugar happy with raising
their hands and then the
introverts in the room
have no shot.
And if nobody volunteers.
Who's your role, chris?
What's that?
Who are you in this?
I'm going to be the vendor.
I need you to be a bad client.
Ok?
and I'll show you how to
apply the Socratic six.
We'll break it down.
So each and every one of you
that are watching or listening
can say, oh, he's doing this,
and then he's doing that.
Oh, that's where
the pivot happened,
and that's where the
death trap was set.
And now the client is stuck.
Mm-hmm Yeah, OK.
I will wait for someone.
I can do it.
If someone else is not doing,
but I think you have people.
Oh, sorry, OK, sorry.
Oh, sorry, my dance partner.
Ok? yeah, sorry.
It's really tough, you guys.
Yeah, she's real tough.
Let me.
You go, Shari.
Get my pen out here.
This is critical that
giving him a hard time.
Go ahead.
Sorry, what did you want to say?
I have to be the
nasty guy, right?
Yeah, you're the client.
I mean, you could take
any stance you want.
The more realistic
you play this,
the better this is going to be.
This is not acting.
This just as much as possible.
Think about this as real life.
Now, for some people who
are sitting here thinking,
this doesn't work in real life,
it only works in role plays,
then I can say I'll sell you
a creative service right now.
And we won't even do role-play.
I'll just sell you something
you don't even want to buy,
and we'll work on that together.
OK, but hold on to that
thought for a second.
OK, now what I want everyone
to do is notice two things.
One state of mind.
I'm going to be curious.
I just want to know.
I want to be helpful.
I want to serve.
That's the state of mind.
I have no agenda.
Like, there's nothing
up my sleeves.
There's nothing here.
I just want to help
shower you, ok?
Number two.
I keep my mouth closed
for as long as possible
until I understand.
I asked questions to get clarity
to demonstrate the understand.
My main goal is
to build rapport.
I want her to feel
that she can trust me,
that I have her best
interests at heart.
And the way that I do
that is that pen and paper
just to prove it to you.
I don't just pretend to write.
I really do write.
OK so when you
guys go to do this,
think about your state of mind.
Think about how you're
paying attention.
Think about how you're
responding and building
rapport.
This is really critical.
OK, I want to make this
one feel as much as
possible, like a clubhouse
call, but more interactive
with video.
So we're going to go deep.
We're going to understand this.
We're going to break this apart.
So get your questions ready, ok?
So, Shari, what kind of
services do you normally
sell to your clients?
I and brand identity, brand
identity and strategy and brand
identity.
And strategy and what is
the typical like if you
look at the last 12 or
10 projects, the last 10
projects you did, where they
brand identity, where they
strategy or both?
Or what?
They were mainly brand identity,
very loyal clients and, yeah,
mainly brand identity
rather than anything.
Right? and what is the
average price in which you're
selling brand identity for?
Not very hot.
Go ahead.
There's no judgment
here, any number.
I'll say I'll say
average, right?
Say one more time
you cut out 5 to 700.
OK and what should it be?
I think it should be between
one, 5 to 3,000 more or less,
honestly.
OK OK.
Where are you
based out of again?
London London, OK.
You cannot live in
London for that.
No, man, I can't.
OK, we've got to change this.
All right.
All right.
So I think a good
number would be like 3k.
Is that OK with you?
Yes perfect.
OK so if OK, there's some
positioning issues here,
I can already tell, like
I can tell in the answers.
We need to work
on that together.
Not this second, but we will.
OK and so what kind
of client are you?
What industry are you in?
What do you do?
I'm going to be the client
that works in charity, right?
I'm going to impersonate one.
Yeah, that I have in mind.
OK I work with a
lot of charities.
No, I haven't
worked on, let's say
that there is one person that
refers a lot of people to me
and they mainly
come from, let's say
that their startups, Black
owned businesses, ok?
Not necessarily
charity, but always
the kind of people who try
to get the bargain right.
The bargain hunters,
OK, we'll call you
the archetype of the
bargain hunter, OK,
this is good because
a lot of people
are going to recognize
this person right away.
I mean, raise your digital.
Use the emoticon at the
bottom like the hand clap.
If you've had a bargain
Hunter or two in your life,
that just drives you bananas.
Let me see your icon.
There we go.
OK only one person.
OK, there we go.
It should light up like a
Christmas tree right now.
There I see it.
OK, this is some
of the reactions.
Yes, under Reactions there.
Thank you very much, Emily.
OK the bargain Hunter.
The bargain Hunter
got a bargain Hunter.
OK, all right.
All right.
So startups, when
you say startups,
I just want to be clear
because I didn't know
what the word startup meant.
A startup doesn't mean you
just started your business.
A startup means you're a
highly scalable company.
That's Silicon Valley
venture capitalists
look at very fondly.
They're looking for the
unicorn, right choice of words.
Very poor choice of words.
No, no.
It's OK.
It's an opportunity
for us to be clear.
So a new business owner is,
what we're talking about,
I think, right, shari?
Yes, that's exactly.
OK, good.
Good now, for some reason, your
audio is cutting in and out.
I don't know if it's just me.
Let me move, then let me move.
Ok? you move.
Yeah because for the
role-play to work,
I have to be able to hear you.
And there's going
to be very exciting.
And I just want to
let you know, Hogan
is rooting for me to go down
here in all caps, so cruel.
OK this is unplanned,
unscripted.
I have no idea what's
about to happen.
And I always preface
the role plays with it
could be a total disaster.
I can have a poop
pie in my face.
It's always possible.
It's like it's all
smashed up in my face.
delicious.
OK all right.
Sorry are you ready?
Yeah OK.
Audio sounds better.
So here's the thing.
Before we start.
You act as best as possible
as one of these people,
so we make it as
real as possible.
OK I don't want you
to give it to me,
but I also don't
want you to fight me
just because you want to
fight me because, you know,
I can be very
convincing at times.
So I just want you to be a
real person and be that person.
So get into character.
Because once we start, we don't
break into, I say and scene.
OK that's your note
to say it's over
and I won't break it either.
I may break and say, pause.
I'm going to explain
something to the group,
but you ignore all of that.
OK OK, so here we go.
So do I call you
or do you call me?
I'll call you right.
A referral, right?
Yes OK.
Ring ring.
Hello Hi.
Hi, Chris.
I'm sorry.
Give me your number!
She said that you could actually
help with brand strategy.
Yes and so I am in the middle
of pivoting and changing
in my business, and I really,
really need a new logo.
Is that something that
you can help me up with?
I most definitely can.
Some things that you
just mentioned right now,
you're pivoting.
What are you pivoting from
and what are you pivoting to?
So basically, I used to do
anything in terms of I'm
building a communication
agency, but I really
wanted to focus on
brand strategy only.
So I'm let's say when
I say I'm pivoting,
I'm not refining my services to
specialize in one thing only,
but also I would like to
change my target audience
and not focus only on
Black owned businesses,
but focus on people who
are a bit more purposeless.
OK, that sounds very
exciting, purpose led.
OK will they still be
Black owned businesses
that are purposely?
Not necessarily.
OK, so you're opening
it up a little bit?
Yes tell me more about what
purpose led means to you.
So to make it simple,
if you are a person who
wants to challenge the
status quo and to have
and you have a
business who wants
to have a social
positive social impact,
right, I want to help them.
They are the people.
Yeah got one social
impact, right?
Yes OK.
How do you usually
measure social impact?
I wouldn't say that I would
measure the social impact,
the more the intention
if that makes sense.
OK intention, OK,
this is perfect.
And why?
Why are you moving
away from the focus
previously, from Black owned
businesses to now purposely?
Is there anything that made you
wake up one day and say this,
I need to change
what's going on?
Yes so I encountered many
people, Black owned businesses
that were I think it's a
matter of the mindset, right?
Many of them are stuck
in the scarcity mindset
and don't necessarily
value graphic design.
And I wanted to specifically
support African businesses.
And then after being
three months in the Congo,
right, I've realized that they
are not necessarily ready.
So before I could sell
my services to them.
There is a huge amount
of educational work
that I would need to do
to explain what it is.
I get it.
Thank you for
sharing that with me,
so that raised another
question for me.
Are your clients
based out of the uk?
Are they based out of congo?
And they based mainly
in Europe, Europe, ok?
I wanted to scale
to Congo, but then
I kind of put a
stop to it, right?
I see.
OK so if I may, if I may
just recap really quickly.
Your your initial business
as a communication agency
was to serve Black
owned businesses,
but you found that many of
them have a scarcity mindset
and they don't value to sign.
And so now you're opening it
up a little bit because it also
resonates with your
soul that companies
that have the intention to
cause or social cost, they
want to make an
impact in the world.
Then you're opening
it up, right?
Yes and they're
based out of Europe.
OK, now you need an identity
to reflect that, right?
Exactly OK.
Is is this important to you
because oftentimes clients will
ask me to do work that
it's not really important,
it's not going to make an
impact on their business.
And of course, then I think
it's a waste of time and money
to do something like that.
Is this important to you?
It is very important,
I think it's
the fundamental of my
business, if that makes sense,
because when I
think about brands,
it's not only the
visuals, but it's also
being able to have guidance on
how I can differentiate myself
in the market because it's a
very, very competitive market,
especially in the UK.
Yeah, I noticed when
you talked about this
that there was a little bit of a
sigh, like, did things not work
out in the past with your logo?
Mainly myself.
OK and thank you
for your honesty.
I'm meeting myself, I
wouldn't say it's corrupt.
It's pretty simple, but it's
just that there was nothing
fought for, right?
No, when I look at things,
how I picked my colors, how
I picked up
anything, it was more
of what do I want to look like?
Right? what is it that I like?
How do I want people to see me?
But I'm not sure, because
although this is what I sell,
right, it's very hard for
me to do it for myself.
Yeah OK, so you need help
like from a person who
does this all the day, right?
That they can use the guide
through this process, right?
So a lot of this is
instinctual and you're
doing it from your gut.
OK I think I can help you.
But here's the
thing I'm wondering.
I don't want to go too
far in this conversation
and realize that we're not
a good fit for each other
financially, like what
you say resonates with me,
I think I can help you.
But we have to get to
the budget question now.
Typically, when I
work with clients
like you and an audience
here, I would probably
spend a little bit
more time, but I'm just
being mindful of time here.
Ok?
is do you have
somewhere around $5,000
to do this identity system?
So that's how much
it would cost.
Yeah, roughly, I just
want to make sure we're
like in the same ballpark here.
OK my I was willing to pay $500.
Wow, OK, OK, fine.
Where'd you get that
number 500 from so?
Well, because that's
what I can afford.
Right that's when I think
about my bank account right now
and how much it was
willing based on,
you know, my expenses
and everything,
how much I was willing to spend.
Mm-hmm But I also wonder,
like, do people pay you five k?
Like, who pays you
five kids to do that?
Yeah, actually, people
paid me even more.
I just wanted to
establish a baseline
to make sure we're
in the same ballpark.
And it doesn't
sound like we are.
So there's a misalignment here.
Look, I think you're a good
person, everything, and I
just I'd love to help you.
It's just I can't do work
for much less than that.
I have to just be
honest with you,
and I'm not even telling
you I'm worth it,
I'm not telling you you
should pay this much,
but if you want to work
with me, that's where
we're going to need to be.
OK don't you do
packages like where
I can have a logo and
the marketing collateral?
What would I, what would
that include basically,
if I pay you five k?
Like, what would I get in there?
Yes very good.
Thank you for asking
that question.
OK, now we got over
the initial hurdle
of that number, which is I would
do like a competitive audit
for you.
I would do several
rounds of logo design.
I would build you out three
pieces of print collateral.
And so you'd have
to identify with me
what it is that you want.
It could be a
letterhead, it could
be a shipping label
and a business card
or something like that.
Some people opt for
social media stuff
and I could design that for you,
but it's usually three pieces
and it gets scale up or down
depending on what you need.
But I just need to make sure
we're in the ballpark of price
because we're like 10
times apart, right?
So there's a pretty
big gap here.
OK, Yeah.
Yes the decision, I know.
Well, I'm actually thinking
because to be honest with you,
I don't think I even need
the printing collateral.
I will need a website.
I think the website
is way more important.
Yes, I agree.
And I assume that it cost more
if I had the website up to it,
right?
Yeah Yes.
And you know, I specialize
in doing brand identity
design and the web design.
I would probably be
better if I referred you
to someone to do that part
because I want you to have
the best person doing
the work for you,
and I don't specialize in that.
But you're right, I
think a website is really
important to your business.
OK listen, I'm going
to be honest with you.
Yes it's a high amount.
It is a high amount and.
I am a bit scared.
To spend that amount of money.
Yes, because if I see
it as an investment.
And pay right, even more.
My question is like, would
I be able to kind of make
the return on investment, right?
Yeah so that that's
the thing, that's
what worries me a little bit.
I like that.
I like that you're
bringing this up.
You're a savvy
businesswoman, and I respect
that as an entrepreneur myself.
I want to make sure the money
I spend is going to be worth it
to me.
And I can't tell you because
I don't know your business
well enough that a
new identity system is
going to do that for you.
So if you don't mind, may I
present some options to you?
Yes OK, go ahead.
I think the website is probably
the most important thing,
I think you need to get like
really strong messaging out
there since you're
repositioning,
that's going to
require copywriting.
Maybe somebody
with some marketing
skills to help you design
and build a new site.
Would it be horrible if you
just use your current logo
and just move forward
with a new website?
And then at some point when
you think you most definitely,
I want to do this and then
you just kind of consider me
when you're ready to do that.
That's not a bad idea at all.
Right?
it really isn't.
Yeah, Yeah.
Do you need some
names for people
to call for website design?
I would love that.
Yeah, I can dig
into my Rolodex here
and find some names for you.
How much money do you want
to spend for the website?
I wondered now I'm
getting those seriously.
I'll be happy to
push up to 1,000.
How much?
1,000 $1,000 for
a website shoot.
I don't know anybody can
do a website for 1,000.
I'd be scared to do
website for 1,000.
I mean, do you want to
do like one of those?
What is it like one of
those site hosting things?
Or they could just
build a site for you?
You know what?
I'm talking about Squarespace.
That's what I was
thinking about or picks.
You want one of those
kind of websites?
I actually hate those.
Me too.
But you know, that's
what you can afford.
I mean, think about
the copywriting alone.
That's going to be
way more than $1,000.
And we find a way that if
I do copywriting myself?
Yeah, well, you are a
communications agency,
you can probably do
the writing yourself.
You supply all the
copy, the strategy.
Do you have an idea of
how much you would cost?
I mean, realistically, right?
Forget about what it wants to
pay or what I'm willing to pay.
Realistically, how
much would it cost?
Without getting too
deep into your business?
Everything I'm just going
to ballpark something here.
The people I know
who build websites
are going to be anywhere
between 5 to 30,000 minimum.
But maybe this again,
like you don't need this.
Not sure.
OK OK, well, you won't
kill me to have a look
and talk to them, right?
It would not kill you.
It's good to be an
informed buyer, right?
Yeah, Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Sure, sure.
Sure, sure.
So should we close there and
say that I'll contact you once,
I'm sure I can pay.
Minimum 5K for brand identity.
Yeah so why don't we do this?
I'll send you an email.
I'll go through and I'll find
like two people that I know.
I think they're
good people, but you
do need to do your
due diligence and see
if they're a good fit for you.
Have a conversation
with them and see just
for your own edification,
look like, what they can do.
And if it doesn't make you feel
like warm and tingly inside,
then you're overpaying, right?
And then at some
point, if you feel
like you need a new identity
system, I'd love to help you.
What you're saying connects.
I resonate with that, so
I wish you the very best.
Thank you.
Chris, Thanks for your time.
Thank you.
Sorry best of luck
to you and see.
OK, now let's stop.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
OK, now let's go over that.
I would love for people
to make some comments.
What did you see?
Did you notice anything?
What would you do differently?
What would you apply
moving forward?
What was the energy like?
I'm just throwing out a lot
of random questions for you.
OK And then you guys just
keep putting that in there.
I'm not going to
say anything yet.
OK and where's hulking?
Why was I destroyed where
I can't even see him?
I'm like looking for you.
Usually I can tell your
desk setup, where are you?
Unmute yourself.
No, you weren't destroyed.
What are you hoping for?
No, I'm joking, joking tone, but
maybe a bit rougher objections.
Maybe I was hoping for.
Yeah do you know why the
why that didn't happen?
And I can guess, because of the
inquisitive, curious approach
from with getting
into the client's need
some at once on a deep level.
It's like it's hard to argue
with someone that doesn't
want to argue with you, right?
I mean, you have to be
a really nasty person.
Like, let's say, like
I have the energy
of like a big hearted
grandma, like how good are you
with grandma?
She's going to bake
you some cookies
and make sure you've got a warm
sweater and everything is good.
It is kind of hard to argue.
I mean, some people do
argue against that grandma,
but I try to approach
it like that.
I'm trying to be a kind,
compassionate person.
I don't want to close the sale.
If it's the wrong fit,
I'm going to walk away,
but I want to do
that with grace.
I don't want anybody to
feel bad about who they are
and where they are.
You know, I'm never too
good to look down on people.
Never so if you guys
keep that in mind.
OK, so that's one thing I can't
get destroyed because I don't
want to be destroyed because I'm
trying to I'm trying to help.
And I think people can see that.
OK somebody else
point out something.
Yeah Rolodex.
And well, I was trying to
figure out what the modern day
equivalent is.
Connect with my
LinkedIn buddies.
OK I know Raul has
his hand up in.
Cuyler has his hand up, but
maybe it's for something else
because their roles handles
up way before, right?
Yeah, he had.
He has something
when we started.
I also have an input, but
I can take it after them.
OK I just it was just a
show of hands when you said
show a show of hands who
have experienced this.
Oh, I see, I see.
I don't even know how
to take the hand down.
I can do that for you.
Very yeah, no problem.
Kyler, did you have a question?
Hey, Chris.
Yes, I did had a question
around the time when you asked,
is this important
and the impact this
will have for your business?
Yeah how do you relate that
back to the money conversation?
Because nine times out of
10, they're going to say,
of course, this is important.
You know, that's why
we're talking now.
For me, in my
experience, has been
hard to relate that back to.
Well, it's not
important enough, right,
when we get into the
budget conversation.
Yeah you notice I did
ask that question.
I walked away from it.
I just totally abandoned ship
because I got a spider sense
feeling that she's not
going to be able for this.
So that's why I really
just hard pivoted to like,
here's what it's going to cost.
Because I remembered that
her the general person who
reaches out to her thus
far is a bargain hunter,
so I want to deal
with the bargain
Hunter talking value to bargain
hunters almost impossible.
So this is where I just
have to state the price
and be OK with that.
OK, now in my mind,
I left a lot of room.
If she was willing
to walk me there,
I would have taken
it down to 3k.
I'm not even taking it
out to 2K or one cable.
It began really
high because there's
no penalty for
beginning really high
and then she can walk me back.
I'm like, OK, you know what?
I really connect with you.
Here's what we can do if
you promise that we're
going to stick to
three rounds of changes
and you can be very
clear and decisive.
And if I do a great job for
you that you refer me to two
friends, I can do it for 3,500.
I would have just
brought it down,
but she wasn't
showing any interest.
I'm not going to start
negotiating against myself.
It will seem very desperate
if I feel her withdrawing
and without showing
any interest for me
to start lowering my
price, then she knows
this was an inflated price.
You were trying to treat me and
that's a really bad position
to be in.
So Shari wanted
to open that door.
I would have happily walked
through that and taken it there
and close the deal.
OK, Sara, you have
a question, I'm
going to come back
to Kyla in a second.
So sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, so how should
I have done that?
Like, for example, to
come and just ask, like,
should I have
asked for discounts
like trying to get you
to lower your price only
if you wanted to work with me?
Did you want to work with me?
I did.
So why didn't you say so?
I'm sorry.
Seriously, I struggle
with kind of it's
like, you're telling me
you're giving a price, right?
And you're kind of me.
I'm expensive.
I'm seeing you as
kind of unreachable
and you're giving me somebody
that I'm not necessarily
be cheaper, but you're
giving me an option
to work with somebody else.
So I'm taking what you're
giving rather than go
and try to get what I want.
Yeah, see, so people
want to get what
they want, regardless of what
you try to give them, right?
And the less I try to
give you of me, the more,
you'll want me.
It's kind of weird.
So I'm like, you know, no
harm, no foul, you know,
I'll help you with some
friends and maybe some people
I know who can help, but then
usually what happens in people
like, wait a minute, I'm going
to find a way to afford you.
You know what, I was going to
buy this other thing that I
don't need.
I'm going to make this work
because it's really important.
So what happened there
in that role play?
As you said, it's
important, but you didn't
act like it was important.
If it's not important or urgent
and it's not solving a business
problem, I don't want to do it.
I see.
See so that's where there was
some like cognitive dissonance,
you can't say simultaneously.
This is important, but
then not make it important.
So you misdiagnosed
yourself, you really
don't need an identity,
you can use your own logo
that you made yourself.
You could just build a
website, and maybe that's
more important.
And if I was in the
website building business,
that would be music to
my ears, but it's not.
Get it.
See?
and that's OK.
Look, if tomorrow you
had said, you know what?
It's not a website, I need a
new interior for my office,
I'm like, OK,
let's examine that.
But usually with
bargain hunters,
I'm not going to
sit here and try
to excavate value because
it's too much work,
it's just too much work.
Like, if you're a high
roller, I would sit there
and work on that
with you, like, oh,
what do you think that would
generate a lot of money?
OK, and then I would
price you at that point.
OK, so you say that
there's no point in trying
to explain the value behind what
you do to a bargain under ok?
Yeah, it's a waste of your time.
It'll be really
frustrating for you.
So the bargain Hunter
profile states your price,
be firm, be helpful.
And then be prepared
to walk away.
The faster that I can get to the
more time I have for my life.
And just keep doing
that until you get one.
It's like, wait a
minute, Chris, you
don't tell me if I can't afford
this, I'm going to find money.
I'm like, well, I'm not
your boss, OK, you're right.
Do you want to pay me?
I'm happy to take it.
I want to challenge you here.
Do you?
OK, so you're not
trying, even trying
to explain to a
client that don't know
so much the value of doing it?
I don't try.
Forget about it, really.
Not for the bargain Hunter.
No so you read, OK,
interesting, Yeah.
So how do you go ahead?
How do you spot them?
Because like I said, that
would be the bargain Hunter
because they come to me, right?
They call it and
like, how much is it
going to cost me when I call?
That's how much I'm
going to charge you.
And then most of
the time, what I do
is that they don't
necessarily understand.
But then before I
talk to them, right?
Like, what are the
signs that you're
aware you can say, oh, this is
the type of thing, you know?
Yeah, OK, I'll
tell you how I know
it's because if the
owner is calling you.
And if you had so
many conversations,
like if out of the
12 conversations
you had previously
broke because of price,
it's because your
position poorly
or your marketing
isn't right, you're
not attracting the
right kind of client.
OK and allow me to tell
you another fishing story.
Like everything
in my life, I want
to tell you a fishing
story whenever possible.
And so here's an
opportunity here, ok?
I love fishing.
I fish.
For many, many years, I didn't
realize until my 40s I didn't
know how to fish at all.
So it took me 40
years of bad fishing
that I realized something.
OK, so when we were
kids, we grew up poor.
We didn't have
like fishing gear.
And so the strategy was
tie heavy object to a hook
and throw it out in the
water and see what you get.
You know what you get most
of the time you get nothing.
And if you catch
something, you're
going to catch what a
bottom feeder, literally
a bottom feeding fish
and different fish
feed in different parts of
the water like catfish carp.
They tend to be at the bottom.
If you're in the ocean, it'll
be like a halibut or sharks
or junk fish.
They happen to be at the bottom.
Predators happen
to be at the top.
The sport fishing like people
like the ones at the top.
So there was no way in
my life I was ever going
to catch a salmon sea bass.
Anything like a tuna, because
they're all at the top.
You see what I'm
saying, like literally,
this is where the
whole expression
comes in a bottom feeder.
Right, so when we cast
a line out, we're like,
wow, why does all this junk
fish keep coming in the line
and it's a waste?
And the fishing gear,
it's called tackle.
It's like it ties up my tackle.
I lose the hook.
What a waste.
And now I just got
sunburnt the whole day,
getting nothing that I want.
And they're a pain in the
ass to get off the hook.
They have spikes and they
have like sharp teeth.
And, you know, God dang it.
OK, and then you put the
fish back on the water
because they're not very tasty.
It's not what you want.
And then I learned that there's
habitats where fish hang out,
and even within one
species of fish,
they have different habits.
So once I learned that
now I get on a boat,
the wait is only on the
line to keep the bait
at a certain depth, like 15
feet underneath the surface
of the water.
And that's it.
And so right now, if you
keep getting the junk fish,
it's telling you wrong bait,
wrong hook, wrong place,
wrong depth.
OK, so and you know,
this is a really funny
like once I learned to like
fish from the pros, when
I feel a fish on the
line, I can tell you
what fish it is before it
even comes up to the water.
I already know.
And so I already know
you're a bargain Hunter.
I already can tell before
we talk about budget,
it's going to be a problem.
It's going to be a problem.
That's why I'll talk about
money right away, because I
want that fish off the hook.
If you find a fish for an
hour, 15 minutes, 20 minutes,
and it's the wrong fish,
I just cut the line.
And I want to cut the
line as soon as I can.
Boom! release you
back into the wild.
Sorry OK, now I want to
circle back to Kyler.
Let's pretend it's
not a bargain Hunter.
Let's say it's a value client.
And I can tell.
You know, I can
feel it on the line,
right, so when I say how
important it is to you,
so let's pick it up
from there, Kyle,
I'll do the dance with you, ok?
Let's switch here.
This is going to be strange.
So we're still on the same idea.
Same kind of business.
Let me pin you the
second screen here.
OK, so I'm going to
lower your hands,
so I don't see that part.
OK, so so how important
is this to you, kyler?
That's very important, crucial.
What would he do
for your business?
Generate more
customers, hopefully get
people to know about my brand
and get the phone's ringing.
Wow, that does sound
like it's crucial.
Ok? generate more customers.
Do you know what the lifetime
customer value is for you?
Maybe about $1000, OK.
Yeah how many new customers
are you hoping to get?
I want to get about I want
to generate three more
leads to my sales reps and
hope and gain one customer out
of those three leads.
I see.
So is that three
leads per month?
Three leads per week per week,
thank you for clarifying.
So that's like 12
per month, right?
With the hope of closing for.
So by my mouth, that's like
4K in New projects times, 12.
So you're talking
about generating
an additional
$48,000 in revenue.
Right I guess so, Yeah.
I mean, did I get it
wrong? mean, let me
just double check my math here.
No, no, I trust your math.
OK, so one new
customer per week.
That's for customers a month
times 12, so that's Yeah.
Oh, OK.
Just double checking the map.
Is that what you're
hoping for this to do?
Yeah, Yeah.
48,000 OK and what seems like
a reasonable amount of money
to spend against that.
Like, you don't want to
spend four to eight k,
but what do you want to spend?
Maybe about five,
3% 3% to 5% OK,
I'm not so good with the
math, I'm try five percent,
let's see where that is.
So 10% would be 4,800.
And 5% would be 2,400.
So like $2,400.
So what you want to spend
to try and get for the ak?
Yeah, that's what I've spent
in the past with other video
creators and brand strategists
and stuff like that.
And did it work out in the
past when you spent that?
It worked for the time.
Mm-hmm Yeah I mean, would you
go back to them again and spend
the same amount of money?
No, no, I will come.
For a long time, it didn't fit.
It was good for the
short term, but we
didn't prepare for what's going
to happen in the long term.
OK can you tell me why?
What happened?
Yeah, know, the
experience was great.
Still refer the guys there.
Great group of people.
But we weren't the right fit.
They didn't predict what I was.
We didn't accomplish
our long term goal.
We focused too much
on the short term,
and now I'm in a
position where I want
to focus for the long road.
OK, I'm trying to
get clarity on this.
Didn't accomplish
the long term goal.
What was the long term goal?
Why do you think?
Like, what's your best guess
as to why it didn't happen?
I think the messaging, not
targeting the right people,
OK, not positioning ourselves
correctly in the market
because it leads,
we're generating leads,
but we're not converting enough.
And I think it's because
of the lead quality
we're getting is
not high enough.
OK so is this an issue that
the videos that you're having?
Does it just need to
be targeting somebody
else in a different place?
Could you just be a targeting
issue and not a new video?
Or do you think it's the
video itself and something's
wrong with it?
Personally, the video
seems super kind
of old school and
100 percent, I think
targeting would
definitely help us
as well making sure it's
seen because right now we're
making videos, but it's not
being seen by the right people.
OK, so I don't I
don't do targeting.
So that's something that
has to be resolved, right?
And so maybe at some
point you'd be comfortable
if we were together putting
me in touch with a person.
It is your placement so that
we can have a unified strategy,
does that sound good?
Yeah OK.
Tell me a little bit
about this old school.
This is the first critical
thing I've heard you say.
Like, why did it
feel old school?
But it didn't, you
know, for the videos
I watch on YouTube
and my competitors,
it seems their video
seems more modern.
Their marketing
seems more up to date
to the current times where
the videos were producing
and the content we're producing
doesn't seem like that.
I'm not happy with them.
Ok?
if you had to put
your finger on it.
And just give me a
hunch as to what it was,
I throw a couple things out
and you tell me if one of them
sounds right, was it
the way it was lit?
Was it the color correction?
Was it the editing style?
Was it the graphics?
Was it the styling,
the wardrobe?
Was it any of those
things or something else?
I think a blend of
everything and the messaging,
if I was going to
add something to it.
OK And how did the messaging
come across a superstar
or is it voice over?
Or something else knows live.
It was like talking heads.
Yeah, talking head.
Talking heads, OK.
Oh, I see here.
Do you think talking heads?
Those videos are effective?
It hasn't been so far for us.
OK, so I think
strategically, I just
might have bumped
into a problem, ok?
I don't want to take up
too much of your time.
If we were to work together,
I would probably really need
to study your last
campaign, identify campaigns
that you really
think are effective
and put together a
strategy for you.
Does that sound like
that's going to be
a better approach to this?
I think so to make sure
that you understand
what we're dealing with, yeah,
I think that's a good strategy.
OK, now now I want to relate
it back to the price here.
I cannot do that for the
$2,400 we're talking about five
percent, like for me, usually
when I'm working with a client.
I hope you're sitting
down for this.
I usually charge
somewhere North of 10,000.
Oh yeah, I know.
Well, you're still
in your chair.
Yeah, I'm sitting down.
You're sneezing.
I don't want any kind
of whiplash here.
Yeah talk to me.
How are you feeling
right now about that 10k?
Well, it's definitely I haven't
seen a price like that before.
Normally, as I mentioned before,
it's around the 2,503 1,000.
Maybe we haven't spent that kind
of money on content or branding
before.
So, yeah, maybe I'd like
to learn a little bit more
about what that would
entail and the engagement
would have with that.
And how we can achieve
our goals with that.
Yeah let me ask
you this question
in the realm of
possibilities, if I sat down
and explain a process and get
you really, really comfortable
and even maybe put you in
touch with our clients, I
showed you some results,
case studies, et cetera.
Conceptually, could you
see yourself spending
K to produce a video campaign?
Yes OK.
Well, fantastic.
Why don't we do this?
Allow me a few days.
I'll put together something.
I'll send it over a
tailor made for you.
And I'll talk you through it.
Probably take 15
minutes and then
you decide then if you want to
proceed or not, it's that cool.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Thanks, Chris.
Yeah, so I'll make sure I break
down our creative process, how
we get the results that we get,
what those results look like.
And then afterwards,
I'll put you
in touch with any
one of our clients
that you want to talk to.
OK OK, that's good, so we'll
talk in like two, three days.
Sweet, thank you.
All right.
Thanks so much.
Thanks, Skyler.
Take care.
You two and scene?
OK, let's talk about that.
OK, thank you, thank you.
Thank you, Chris.
All right.
Do you charge K to do a video?
I want to.
What do you charge now?
Probably 5 to 500 to 1,500.
OK again, too low.
And that's not a
value statement.
That's just a numerical
objective thing.
OK, where do you live, buddy?
I'm not sure.
I'll OK.
Yeah, I just moving
to Vancouver and OK.
For sure.
When you moved to Vancouver,
you cannot do for that kind
of price.
You just can't.
So I'll tell you
something right now.
I think there's a bunch
of videographers in here.
There's a bunch of Canadians
apparently Canadian
take over, right?
Emily dang.
All right.
All right.
OK when you sell video and
it's not attached to result,
it's going to be a hard to
sell video for a lot of money.
Yeah here's to me,
the no, there's
two reasons why
you make a video.
One is because the videos
outrank other kinds of content
on Google.
If you want to be
found, you make a video
that has the ideas and
keywords that the client wants
to be known for.
So anybody here
who sells videos?
OK, I need you to
write this part down.
The question that you
should be asking is,
is ranking on Google important
for your customers, right?
Is it important to them,
and you should just
ask them, is ranking important?
Are you on the top
10 search results
for the words you want to
be known for their what?
Yeah, Yeah.
Like the words you
want to be known for,
like the three words.
Can we try to find you
right now on the internet
without having to type in your
name or your company's name?
Let's see where you guys rank,
and it's going to be terrible.
I already know it.
So video as an SEO solution.
Or Sam becomes inherently
way more valuable.
So then you can just ask
them a simple question
if you could pay a
certain amount of money
to organically be listed
on top 10 on google?
What would that be?
What kind of money would you
pay for that kind of result?
totally changed the game.
I don't sell videos, I sell
results on Google Search.
That's what I sell.
The video is a vehicle.
I don't sell logos.
I sell.
I sell clients the ability to
market themselves with an image
that they're proud of.
The logo just happens
to be the vehicle.
So to many of us are selling of
the thing that we make and not
the result that thing gets.
Focus on the results.
They will change the game.
Number two videos should be
used for conversion needs
to do something for me, not
just to make me feel good.
OK what will this video do?
Well, we want them to sign
up on all this great what
is one email worth to you?
What would you pay
for that email?
Ok? and you want what?
10 thousand?
Ok?
oh, you want people
to order now, ok?
You want them to back
your kickstarter?
OK, OK.
Well, what's that?
What are you trying?
OK then you put a
number next to it.
Mm-hmm OK otherwise, you're
selling video production
services and they can call the
AV kids at the local college
to do that.
You have to separate
yourself from that.
Now, if you do brand films like
in the big commercial world,
they're called anthemic like
an anthem for the company
like ford, you know,
Budweiser, the dog, you know,
the Dalmatians and the
Clydesdale horses, whatever
they're called the Big horses.
You know, it's like it
just makes us feel good.
Well, they like to feel
good because they spent
so much money on feeling good.
But most people, they don't
have that kind of money.
Mm-hmm And brand awareness.
It's like air evaporates,
it's just it's everywhere,
and it's nowhere.
OK, so stay away
from those things,
because unless they're
really rich clients.
They're not going to
pay anything for it.
Explainer videos explaining
how to use a product.
There's money in that, too.
Just teach me how
to use your product,
you'll sell more product.
There's a guy in his
name is Jim Schofield.
I think it's Jim.
Jim Schofield.
He has this line, I believe.
What did he say?
He's like we sell products
through education.
That's it.
So he just teaches
people how to use
something, a camera, a light,
a desk, whatever it is.
You do like that.
Matthew nCino.
The late Matthew and Zina,
relative to the future,
he's still alive.
He gets paid just
to like, use stuff.
So the video is
not even, you know,
like he's not selling a
video, he's selling like,
I'm going to do something
fun and cool your stuff.
It just happens to
be in a video format.
They'll pay him 30k
to do that more.
Mm-hmm So that's when you
move into a different space.
OK all right, think about that.
OK, I need to do the role-play,
I promise a role play
and we want to get into it.
Is that ok?
I see more hands.
May I have your
permission or do you
guys have a question relative
to the first two things
we had just done?
Mohammed, did you
have a question, amy?
Alex Richie, who has a question.
Mohammed, your first.
Chris, actually,
I have a question
with the first role was there.
Yeah so I had a client once who
came, who was a bargain hunter,
but I pushed him away
and he went and hired.
Someone was not satisfied
with the course, then back
and hired me for the price.
So my question is,
is there any way
to identify if a
person is trying
to look like a bargain
hunter, but he's actually
hunting for value?
Everybody's ultimately
hunting for value.
They just need to have a
conversation with a wallet
first.
OK, so here's the line I'm
going to tell you what to say.
OK, I want you to memorize this.
I want you to write this down
or watch this recording where
nine?
I'm sorry, we're 11.
71 minutes into the hour.
OK, I want you to
write this down.
OK, you're going to say this
because any time something has
happened in your past, you
use it in the narrative of the
now, OK, is what
we're going to do.
You guys ready?
OK, you're going to say like.
OK I don't know any I don't
know anything about you,
but I know that these
kinds of things happen.
Here's how it usually
works with my clients.
I tell them price, they
have sticker shock.
They say, no,
Mohammed, we're going
to work with someone else.
They do it for a bargain.
And then three months
later to come back,
and they agreed
to pay the price.
The only difference now is
they've lost three months
and they spent even more
than they initially thought
they were going to spend.
OK, so let's accelerate
this process, if you will.
OK when this call, and you
can call me back in 3 months,
it's like, no, no,
no, you're right,
because then you
can explain to them,
inevitably this is what happens.
They get their cousin,
they get some internet.
Yahoo doesn't know
what they're doing.
Who won't spend.
The time is like non-responsive,
like when you reach out
to them via email or call.
They were good on
the initial call,
but afterwards they
never returned their call
and they disappear on you.
You get frustrated and
they turn something
in that you think that's it.
That's what I paid you to do.
And that's what happens.
So I want to try and
save you some heartache.
And if we can skip that
process, we can get going today
and you won't lose
the three months.
And then you say,
how does that sound?
So that was really
rough, but you understand
what I'm saying, right?
You just tell them how it's
happened in the past that tells
you that you're.
That tells them you're confident
you've done this before
and you're telling them about a
mistake that's going to happen.
It's like if you get
married to that person
while you're drunk
in Las Vegas, you're
going to end up with an
annulment in four months
and you're going
to be embarrassed
that you even did this.
OK you used to want to do.
Go ahead.
You just laid out
just like that.
OK all right.
OK, everybody else
raised lowered the hands.
Richie, go ahead.
There's your question.
It wasn't about
the objection call,
it was about something you
said about the videographers
and CEO.
Yes, go ahead.
In that case, if you're
trying to sell SEO
through video with
the videographer,
then be doing that
or would I just
be outsourcing that to
like another company?
Oh Yeah.
Let me explain how this works.
If you call your video the words
that they want to be known for
and the video
answers that problem.
And you put in the
description and you fill it
with rich metadata, and
actually, if you can,
you transcribe the entire
video and you dump it
all into the description
and you give that to them
to make a blog post the link
to the video on YouTube.
It will rank really fast.
Try it for yourself
and see what happens.
Find three words that you want
to test this theory on it.
Just do it for yourself.
It's actually better if
you do it for yourself.
So you can say, look, I did
this in two weeks is what I got.
Right go in incognito mode,
search for your words.
Screen capture what
you see with the date.
Go make a video on
that, make sure it's
a really good video
that answers those
three questions or those three
words and see what happens.
In two days, your video
will pop up to the top.
And if it has a
description, it will
show that in the search
result, it's crazy now.
It's bananas, because, you
know, YouTube and Google
are the same company.
People forget that sometimes.
OK And then create a blog post
using those exact same words,
do everything I told
you to do and see
what happens Follow all
best practices and then rip.
5 to seven images from
your video and embed
them inside the blog post
and label every image
with those three words and more.
With a dash in between,
so it's like hot dog camp,
let's just say
those are your three
words for whatever reason.
That doesn't make any sense.
Hot Dog Dash camp dash
the city that you're
in dash Richie films.
OK dash zero one.
And these label them all that.
You're teaching Google,
this is what this is.
Don't call untitled
dash final dash for.
That's final final.
Don't call it that.
Got it, OK, and that's all that
you have to do for the CEO.
There's no other building
links or additional stuff.
Now there's more, but
just try that first.
See what happens?
I bet you that's 10 times more
than what you already do now.
Totally that's
what I'm wondering
if asking if the client
would be like, well,
what are you going to
do to rank on a ceo?
This is a good place to start.
Yeah, just do that for yourself.
See what happens?
Awesome I've tested
this theory before.
That's why I know I could
speak about it so confidently.
I told my team, I want to be
known for these three words.
We looked it up 6 months later.
We're a top 10 search
result. Actually,
if you search it again,
we're like number three,
number seven, number nine, like
not just once on the top 10.
I try to make it
really easy to find us.
Like I even typed in the other
day, generically pro group,
we're like number
seven, I want us
to be number one, like not
even future, just pro group.
Yeah try typing in the
word style scapes type
in whatever you think you want
to find me for, it's there.
That's why I'm usually
upset at people.
I get really cranky
there, Chris.
How do I go from solopreneur
to like a business owner?
I'm like, did you
even type that in?
Let me just have it in right.
It's open for business.
It's like all our
videos are there.
You'd rather just ask me than
just type it into Google,
you crazy or lazy?
OK all right.
Do we get to do role play?
There's just more
it's like unending.
Emily, it's like whack-a-mole.
Yeah, I don't know.
Do you want do you want all or
just have a role play instead?
I mean more.
OK, one more question.
Then we're going
to go to role-play
because I have this idea.
I want to do this idea and
I want you to practice.
I need you to get
the repetitions in.
Watching me do it
will not help you.
OK, so next up is hooking.
Yeah, sorry, Chris.
Be respectful of
the time here, I
have two questions in regards to
the first role play with China.
Yeah, I noticed that you
just gave a price anchor
without giving a range.
I'm wondering about why you
decided to do that question to.
What was the first giveaway
of the main giveaway
that Sharia was
a bargain hunter?
Yes number one, I didn't feel
necessary to do the bracketing
because I just knew she was
going to choke on this number.
I just already knew
because when she told me
how much she charged,
and then I added, like,
I doubled what she
charged and I added $2000.
On top of that.
Then I already knew that
they were going to freak out.
When I say this,
how do I know she's
going to be a bargain hunter?
She told me in the role play.
Don't forget, you
did tell us she
was going to be
a bargain hunter,
and we identify that I need
to know what kind of client
that she deals with.
So I already know and
modeling my conversation
around that type of client.
I I'll put it out there
just generically speaking.
Almost every one of your
clients are bargain hunters.
Every single one of them,
because when your position
at the top now we're like,
OK, let's see how much money
I can get from you.
It's a different
game, so I can't
be teaching you those
techniques because you're not
positioned there.
When you are, we'll have a call.
There'll be four
people on that call
because like, I have a
bigger problem, Chris,
how much more money
can I get from them?
Like, OK, let me teach you how.
Generally speaking?
OK, go ahead.
Are we really sure that's
all people here have?
Yes this was pretty confident.
Now what we can do is
we can open up anybody.
We can ask people, with
the exception of you,
how many people have
this issue where
the clients like out
an open checkbook
and they're ready to go big?
I'll talk to you right now.
Raise your hand.
Come on, guys, some brand
strategists in there.
OK, OK, hold on, hold on.
Is it gamal?
Yeah, that's right.
OK, well, what's the budget
range that you usually work at?
Oh, so were you asking
if we've already
worked with big budgets,
that the question?
I may have missed
the first part.
Yes the question
is, how many of you
guys work with really
big budget clients
and need to make even
more money from them?
I can help you.
Oh my, my bad.
I missed that.
Sorry.
OK.
And who else raising cuyler?
Did you raise your hand?
I did, but I misheard
the question as well.
OK, I'm being a bad
communicator this morning.
OK, thank you.
Thank you.
Well, first of all, I love
that you guys raise your hand.
Can you specify what big budget
is like the most I've ever
charged?
The client is like, I
think, 18 grand for a couple
pair of glasses I designed.
I'm an industrial designer.
OK, that sounds like
a really good price
for industrial design.
That sounds good.
I loved it.
It was great.
Yeah, I'm trying
to live that life.
Always beautiful.
I wish that you lived
that life always too.
So yeah, I guess it's all
relative for me to, OK,
it is going to sound
terrible for me.
It's big budget when it's
North of $200,000 North of 300.
Yeah, but OK, it's
a middle way here.
I'm talking about
someone who maybe
can charge like 10k, for
example, like we're talking
about budgets on 500,000
and you say 200000,
it's a little bit of difference.
Yeah, 5K, 10K.
I think people are on
really quick story here.
Thank you, Anna Lee
for always challenging.
I love it.
OK, I just want to
let you guys know,
I've gone through
this entire range
of budgets up to over a
million for a single client.
OK it was.
It was wonderful this time.
Oh my God was so good.
OK, it didn't
last, but I've gone
from a couple dollars to several
thousand to tens of thousands
to hundreds of
thousands, to a million
and everything in between.
Each time you move from
one bracket to the next,
and depending on the industry
in the vertical that you're in,
it's a whole new game.
So what I have to do is
understand, like for gamel,
like sub North of
20, North of 50.
Like, if you're
like Karim Rashid,
you're going to get paid 100
grand for a project, right?
Gamal Yeah.
Yeah, Yeah.
If you're like
Felipe start, you're
going to get paid
hundreds of thousands,
if not millions of
dollars to do something.
He probably has equity.
If you're Eve's
bear, are you going?
Same thing, right?
So what we?
That's your standard
right there.
I'm curious.
You know what?
What is it by her?
That's right.
Yeah, Yeah.
How much does that guy charge?
Do you know?
I don't honestly know.
OK, I'm going to give
you a little homework.
Can you look it up
because it's available?
I think most.
And how is, as I say?
And how would you find
something like that?
Um, I just started searching.
You'll see I've seen it
myself because there's
interviews with him.
I think these days they don't
take on projects anymore
unless they have equity
stake in the companies
like if you look at that, that
lock company, the smart lock,
OK, you know what
I'm talking about?
No, no.
OK, so I don't know why I know
more about this is it's called.
I think it's called August.
Just like August the
month, and it's a lock
that you open with your phone.
You know, these smart homes
with the locks so you can
give temporary access to it.
His company designed
this and I think he
has an equity stake in August.
I think I also know a little
bit about him because he speaks
at Art Center a lot and I'm an
Arts Center teacher in Harlem,
right?
So I want you to look
into the superstars
in the industrial design
world and start to study them.
I want you to build like
you're a forensics person,
like you're searching
for the serial killer.
It's just they're just
killing a lot of money, right?
That's what you study
them, see their arc,
see how their positions, see
how they talk about things.
So what I suspect
that Eve's did many,
many years ago was to
take on some low end
start up and negotiate
himself for equity
and do an amazing job.
Because once you start that
door, once you open that door,
then you can say moving
forward is all I do.
Right I want a piece of this.
You're going to pay me five or
10 k, but I want 4% of sales.
I want whatever.
It'll change your life.
OK OK.
Understood yeah, so I
want you to research him
and anybody else that is a
superstar like Felipe Starck
would be another good one.
And let's throw in Karim Rashid,
three industrial designers
that are superstars.
And there are other
ones out there
that have like deals
with furniture companies
where they put their
name on it and then they
get a piece of that too.
So the other way
to do it is guys
like that are doing
like the watch
bands in Chicago this case?
Yeah so once you get
into superstar status,
then you start doing
deals like that where
you lend your name to things.
Listen Yeah.
Now, if you want as
part of an office hour,
maybe I can find an
industrial designer.
I know quite a few of them.
Yeah, no, the book, yeah,
because a lot of the work
people are talking
about here, these
are things I don't even
know about, like video,
like selling videos.
I'm like, I do a
lot of 3D modeling
that, you know what I mean?
So so I'm trying to
bridge the gap of it
to understand how
it applies to either
how I'm thinking about
something incorrectly or just.
A real quick question is if
do people have a budget client
or like a value seeking client?
I have a lot of clients that
really seem to only understand
the hourly rate thing like
it's like they don't even
understand.
I'm talking about when it
comes to value based pricing.
Yeah, and I've definitely lost
people as a result of that.
And they're like, we just want
you to model the stuff, man.
Like, we don't want you to
think about how many of these
we're making and how much
that is actually worth to us
and that kind of thing.
Yeah, you're not a
modeling, though.
You're designing,
they're reducing
what you're doing into
just the hands on work.
Well, if you want to
show me the model,
the design it can model
for you, actually, you just
probably send it out to a kid.
You don't need me for
that, you're overpaying me.
Mm-hmm I'll talk to you
about pricing later, ok?
OK just let's make
a note of this.
Let's keep this conversation
alive on the circle platform,
and then I can help you
with pricing, for sure.
OK the pricing conversation.
All right, beautiful.
Thanks and thank you, Amy.
OK I think we need to role play.
Here's what we're going to do.
OK, so bob, I'll get back
to you later, so just
remind me, OK, bob, I'm
going to lower your hand.
OK, I'll just
write it down, Bob.
OK, here's what
we're going to do.
It's going to get a
little bit uncomfortable.
And watch everybody
leave right now.
I anticipate some
of that's happening.
We're going to do one on ones.
OK, so the first
thing I want to do
is I want everybody
who's really just
tired of dealing
with an objection
that they keep getting.
A pushed back.
I want you to raise your hand.
Because you're going to
play the role of the client.
OK, I want everybody
to raise your hand.
Just keep raising your hands.
OK, I'm going to open
while you're doing that.
I'm trying to get half of you
to raise your hand because I
want you to play the client.
Raise your hand digitally.
Go to the reactions and
go and click Raise Hand.
OK, at the bottom of the screen.
Bottom right.
And I'm going to
create rooms right now.
I'm going to try to create how
many rooms are you creating
just for two people in a room?
Yes look at everybody leaving.
No, I just.
Oh my God.
OK good evening.
Yeah, OK.
I just see a few people
that couldn't be in it.
Maybe they're leaving because
they couldn't be in it.
OK, here's what
we're going to do.
I'm going to create 25 rooms.
It's starting to
shrink here, and I'm
going to allow you
to choose the room.
OK, watch what we do.
I'm going to create 25 rooms.
Create, OK, open all rooms.
Can we just say something
before we start?
Yeah, go ahead, Chris.
I have instructions.
This is really a safe
place and we're just
doing it to people in a room
so you don't have to be afraid.
You don't have to leave.
It doesn't have to be perfect.
It's, you know,
it's not recorded.
No one will see you after.
Right?
so it's just practice in
the rooms you don't have.
I don't even see.
I'll stay here, I promise.
Yeah, Chris is not watching.
You don't even have
to perform, you know,
do it in front of others.
This is just practicing.
So it's good to be in a room.
Just two people.
I just want to say that
let's try this, ok?
You guys need to remember this.
I'm going to go.
I've never done this before.
I woke up this morning and
I just had this weird dream
and I'm like, just how I'm
going to run the call today.
I'm going to try it.
OK, so everybody that's
got your raise hand, just
leave it there.
Don't anybody change it now?
OK, because you're a mess us up.
So I've created 25 rooms.
There's 54 of us in here.
OK so bob, you're going
to go to room one.
Elizabeth room two, David
three, Ritchie four pick five.
Sherry six.
Ewan seven.
Dustin eight.
Andres nine, lance, 10.
Sabrina, 11.
Che sha1 Che on.
Shall we on what
number am I, 12 and 12?
OK, Louise, 13, Mohammed,
14, Mohammed four, faraz, 14,
hulking, 15, and Ali, stay here.
No, no, no.
What? no, no, no.
Ali, you go to room 16.
OK, OK, OK, Aisha.
17 I know you didn't
volunteer Alex Martinez, 18.
Amy Lynn, 19.
You're all doing
the objections, ok?
Yeah hunch night
Knight Ahmad 19 now.
Yes 19, Angie.
Ari, 20, Asia, 21.
Ashwin, 20, two.
Barack, 23 carry 20
four, Chelsea, 25.
You guys go to the
room, you're going
to be the person raising
the objections, ok?
And when you're doing
your objections,
I just want you to be very
mindful of how you feel based
on what the other person says.
I just want you to
focus on the feeling.
So as you're in the dialogue,
just write down some notes.
How you're feeling
when they are gone.
I'm going to tell the
rest of you what to do.
Well, once they're all gone.
Just hang out there.
I know it's going to be
lonely for a few minutes
and then I will.
I will instruct
some people to join.
Yeah, and Washington
is not going to join.
So you can remove him.
Who, washington?
He's working out, OK.
You can't go in.
No OK, so until everybody's
gone, I've lost my place here.
So everybody go.
Those people go.
Everybody stay here.
I'm going to teach you
how to do this, ok?
I was supposed to go.
Why don't I get a room?
I'll give you six 16.
No, it doesn't show up.
You can choose any room.
OK, everybody else
was able to do it.
OK I cannot enter the room.
Sorry oh, maybe I click on room
11 and then nothing happens.
OK, maybe I can come.
Everybody else is doing it.
You should be able to just
pick a room and go to it.
Now, families laugh, she did it.
OK, everybody else, I want to
teach you how to do this, ok?
Here's the I know how to do it.
I know how to do it.
You need to go to the right
side and then just participate.
There you go.
Oh, there, ok?
OK, good.
Everybody else.
Do you see it?
Goodbye OK, everybody leaves.
Sorry, you need to leave because
I need to teach them something.
I am supposed to be in a room.
Madam care.
I don't know where to go.
Like, I'm confused.
Ok? do you guys see
the breakout rooms?
No Yes.
Yes and then you
find that room number
and then to the right
of it, you say, join.
You hover if you
hover over a room 16.
You can just sit, join.
Well, where do
you see the rooms?
I see them.
There's a button at the bottom.
It's the breakout rooms.
It looks like four squares.
Click on that, it'll
open up another window
called breakout rooms.
Yeah, this is the first class.
At the bottom, no.
No OK, I'll just assign
you what room where
you supposed to be in six.
Six sorry, they're assigned to.
OK, who else needs to
be assigned me, alex?
OK one at a time,
Alex, let me find you.
Sorry, this part.
It's painful.
Work, how come I can't find you?
Alex, Alex, Alex, where are you?
There you are.
OK, what are we
supposed to be in?
18 OK.
And then who, who's next me?
25 Yeah, OK.
Where are you?
There you are.
25 OK, there you go.
OK oh, I signed
the wrong person.
Yikes there's two Chelsea's.
Now, did I sign you, chelsea?
No, she's not.
OK, here's what I'm going
to do everybody else.
OK, I want you to
go in the room.
You're going to have no idea.
And you're going to tell
them what we're going to do.
Ok?
you say, Chris told us,
what is your objection?
So they're going to say
your price is too high.
I want you to practice trying
any and all the six, six, six.
I just want you to ask
a ton of questions.
I want you to be open.
We don't even know
what we're selling yet.
We just want to practice
dealing with the objection.
So you want to be
emotionally very neutral.
I just want to.
You just keep asking questions.
So if they ask you, like if your
price, your price is too high,
they'll say that's
their objection.
What are you going
to say back to them?
What are you going
to say back to them?
It is high.
OK, and then you have to
follow up with a question.
Oh, OK.
What was the Oh sorry.
Go ahead?
Go ahead.
Whoever was the jack?
Yeah just said, why do
you think it's high?
Don't go with the why question
the why is your last question?
Remember, that's the most
dangerous question to have.
OK, well, what?
What price exactly?
Yeah what were you
looking to spend?
What's the sweet spot for you?
Tell me more about what
you're trying to do.
What did you spend previously?
Right now, you
guys get the game.
OK, here's what
we're going to do.
I'm just going to
assign you now.
OK, so this will go faster.
So, Josh, I'm going to
sign you to room one.
Washington can't participate
cruisy room three.
Some people are more and
more rooms, Asha, aren't
you supposed to be in a room?
I'm asking, you know,
OK, don't worry about it,
I'm going to pay you before you
tell them what we just said,
tell me your objection
and you're just
going to ask a
bunch of questions
and I want you to write
down some of their response.
Remember, take notes.
OK, here we go.
Partial I'm sending
you to room five.
Rachel from six, Katie.
Room seven.
Mahi eight.
And then when you're done, come
back, OK, I forgot to tell him,
Ma, he can't participate, ship
it in the chat that she can't.
OK, OK, then they'll
go there and room nine.
George room 10.
Don't go into the
room, obviously, Jamal,
you're still here.
Yes, I see you.
OK, I'm asking you to room 11.
Richard I'm doing
this as fast as I can.
Room 12.
Rahul, can you participate?
Yes, you can write from 13.
Ivy 14.
Jack, I'll give you
a hard one, jack,
I'm going to send
you to room one,
I have no idea why there's
only one person, oop.
OK, somebody is
asking me for help.
Yikes Washington
can't do this, Roy 15.
Kik let me stay here.
I feel like I'm not prepared.
Yes, you can stay here,
Kyler room 20 to Jamie.
Tony oh, I'm sorry, I messed up.
Gaylor, erm, 25.
There's some, some rooms
that have too many people.
And some rooms only have.
OK, there we go.
Send you to room three.
OK how come I have a bunch?
OK how come you guys don't you
guys don't have rooms, huh?
OK, I can create more rooms.
Hey, Chris, we can't jump
in just for no, that's OK.
Yeah, that's OK.
So I sign you to a
room, right, jamie?
22 22.
OK how come I have people
here that I can't assign?
Sunny, I don't see you.
What?
yeah, I have AI don't know.
I have joined breakout room
and I can choose wherever,
but I don't have room
to go to a number.
OK and I can't for
some reason, see your.
Your name in the
assigned list here.
OK, somebody needs some help.
Give me two seconds here.
Why don't we do this?
Sana, you've done the
role of the person who's
got the objection.
Can somebody play
with Sana here?
Somebody do the dance.
OK, Josh Una Sana go.
I'm going to join a room.
I'll come back.
Ok? someone's
asking me for help.
OK, OK.
So so Josh is going
to have an objection.
And then Sana, your thing is
just to ask lots of questions.
Have an open and generous
mindset to be curious.
OK, OK, I'll stop
the recording so
that your privacy is protected
here to let me hit pause.
OK thank you for trying
this out with me.
It's the first time
I've done an open room
and for the most part,
I think it worked
like I put people in rooms.
There was some confusion.
We'll do a better job
and everybody was like,
I don't want to join rooms.
OK, now just a really
quick feedback.
Was that enough
time for you guys
to play and see what happened?
Yes, he he's an odds
because I joined a room late
and we finished
the whole session,
that's how I knew that, I
think we were good, right?
Yeah, we had plenty of time.
And do you have any initial
feedback about how that worked?
We had a great time.
I don't know who is kelly?
Me and Kelly, we
had a great time.
Beautiful awesome.
OK and so if we like
that, why don't you
guys type in like if you
like that in the chat?
I will try to do that more.
OK, next time, what
we can do is you can
I'll just choose your own rooms.
But it would have been
a total chaotic thing.
And next time we're
going to switch,
we're going to make
sure the person is doing
the objections is now going
to become the vendor, not
the client.
OK and I want to
do a similar thing
where I want to
teach the people I'm
going to give them
a couple of tricks
and then send you in the room
and apply those things right
away.
OK, and after some time,
I won't have to like,
give you any tricks.
You just know what to do.
OK, good.
So if you come into
these conversations
with curiosity and that
you're really neutral
and you're not trying
to sell anybody anything
and you give yourself the
rule for a really long time,
all I can do is ask questions
as many questions as possible
and no, no, no advice, no
pitching, no selling and
see what happens.
You guys are going to
get really good at this.
We're going to do this at least
one more time in two weeks
and we're going to do
it again and again.
And then we're see
how you guys do OK.
And then I want you
to report back to me
during and after the
call what things you
would do differently.
In your real life and then
report back the kind of results
that you're going to get.
If you trust me.
And I hope you guys trust me.
You're going to feel more
confident, more comfortable,
and you're going to be
able to close more often.
Those are your three C's.
Right be comfortable,
confident to close.
Consistently,
there's your forces.
That's it.
It's a mindset
shift, it's learning
to speak whatever it is that
you're feeling and learning
to ask really smart questions
to navigate what's going on.
OK All right.
Awesome OK.
There were a question here
about loved it, but would
like more context before.
So my question on that is,
do you want to live more?
We were also a
little bit confused,
but do you want to leave more
context before next time?
Or do you want a show after?
So we really get,
you know, get it.
Are you asking me
are you asking?
Yeah, I'm asking you.
Chris, what more context
would you want before like?
Yeah, we were a
little bit confused,
like, OK, because
you send us to rooms
and then was like, OK,
so we figured it out.
What we had to do.
But so either leave a little
bit more context before
or show after like,
OK, this was actually
the way I wanted you to do it.
Yeah, OK.
Well, one person
has the objection.
And I didn't want you to
know what that objection was.
It could be our price.
It could be about schedule.
It could be about scope.
And so I wanted to throw
you in totally disoriented.
So that was the first part.
So everybody that left,
they had their objection.
Did the people who had an
objection where they confused
as to having an objection?
Yeah, clearly didn't
have one, but I
figured that was the case,
that we made something up.
OK, so Kelly, I sent you in
the room with an objection.
And you didn't know
you didn't know
because you're supposed to
have the objection, by the way.
But I was in the room first.
I didn't get any objection.
Now you're the one
who has the objection.
Remember?
OK.
All right, we'll work
on the answer, ok?
I don't want to waste
more time talking about.
We'll figure it out
because remember
I said everybody who
has a client objection,
raise your hand.
And then I sent you all
into a room and said,
you guys have the
objection and then you're
supposed to have an objection
like, you're too cheap.
OK, we figured it out.
OK, yeah, OK.
And then Kelly was supposed
to like, deal with you.
Like, Oh my God.
And I want it to be a
little bit of a surprise
because, you know,
truth be told,
you never know what
the clients are going
to say out of their mouth hole.
You never know.
I figured it out.
OK OK.
OK all right.
All right.
So let's get back
into this and then
you guys can continue to
give me feedback on circle.
And let's keep the discussion
going, either something
you learned, something
that you were confused by
and we'll keep it.
Yeah OK, now Sana
has a question.
And I just do a little bit
more and then I have to run.
OK, so Sana, go ahead,
ask your question.
Can you hear me?
Yes OK, so my question
was with Josh.
He was I was in
a situation where
I'm selling something
I don't really offer,
but it made me
wonder if a client is
asking for a stepping stone.
Projects such as
an audit or like a
look over or maybe
a consultation
that is not part of the
project that I'm offering.
So he was saying for
k for a video project,
he asked if he
could do an audit.
How would you
technically price that?
Here's the thing I
was going into it when
not knowing what I
was actually offering,
but I do offer things.
But what if a client
is asking for something
like a stepping stone?
How do you price that?
We're unmute.
Here's the intention
behind this exercise.
I didn't even want you to
know what you were selling.
As he so this is the big mind
f that I'm doing on you guys,
right?
Normally you're like, I sell
identities, I sell video,
I sell websites when
you walk into the room
and the person starts saying,
well, you're too expensive,
I want you to focus
all of your energy
on why they think
it's expensive.
Not that I have
anything to sell.
That's the first thing.
So sign up.
Part of the confusion is
built into the exercise.
When I woke up with my
fever dream this morning,
this is what I was thinking.
I want you not to even know
what to sell, who the client is.
I want you to learn about them.
So when a client says, you're
too expensive, it's like,
OK, so what are we
trying to get done?
And then you get into
it and he said, well,
I need a video that does this.
OK, so why do you
think a video does that
or what is the video going
to accomplish for you?
Oh, I need more sales.
Ok?
are there other ways that
you've tried in the past?
So I just want you to
focus all of your energy
on the other person.
Nothing about what
it is that you do.
OK, Emily, do you
want to say something?
Yes, because pricing
was also something
you said that you will
handle in an upcoming call.
So maybe we can
save that question.
But I saw that Bob
was actually having
a question before we started
this and we forgot about him.
Yes, yes, Yes.
But we haven't sign it yet.
Yes, we'll get to Bob.
Yes, thank you.
Thank you for the reminder.
So Sony's question
is, how do we do this?
What's the term you use
on a stepping stone,
stepping stone type of thing?
Yes OK, I want you to
learn this, this phrase.
Everybody, I want you
to write this down.
It's called a phased engagement.
I want you to up your
business vocabulary.
It's Blair ends term.
Phased engagement and
engagement has many phases,
so we're going to
do just one phase.
And so it sounds like
you're not ready to commit
to the full
engagement right now.
How about a proposed we do a
phased engagement, including
like a brand audit or whatever
it is that you want to do?
OK a competitive
analysis, we could just
start doing this strategic
discovery session first.
Right, fantastic.
So and then you just
pull out a random number.
It doesn't matter if
the total projects 4k,
you don't want it to be so
little that it diminishes
the rest of the work, especially
because if it's the brain
work that you're doing, I would
put more emphasis on this.
So for me, when I talk to
clients at scale, these numbers
so that they work
for you, I'll tell
them to do discovery with us.
It's anywhere between 30
to 70 k, maybe even more.
And this is not me
doing any work for you,
except for to find
out your positioning,
your users, the user
journey mapping.
That's what we do.
So when we're done, it
could be more than a quarter
of a million dollars, are
you OK spending the 30 to 50k
up front to do
discovery with us?
They're great.
You get a scope of work
document afterwards.
Everything will be super clear.
That's how we usually do that.
So for a project that's
a 4,000 video project,
I would put somewhere,
maybe $1,315.
I want a good chunk
of the money up front.
Because I'm not going get
out of bed for 300 bucks,
forget about it.
OK and here's the cool.
Go ahead.
The objection was he was
paying for 1,000 so somewhere,
but I think I could
charge 1,000 for charging
and it would be
reasonable to him.
I'm just like, not
sure based on what you
said, if you do 1,200 to 1,500.
Yes, absolutely.
Per video that makes sense,
but it's still equating.
I couldn't make it out in
my head for the client.
Well, I'm not sure I
understand the question.
Can you ask it one more time?
Sure so he was charging.
He was saying it was
a 4,000 video project.
He was used to paying
1,000 per video.
I said 4,000 include strategy.
He was like, I like that.
But can we do
something like an audit
where you look at my
videos for like 15 minutes?
And I said, I can't
do it for free.
And he says, OK, well,
can you do an audit?
And I was like, well,
how do I price an audit?
He says, you know,
it's kind of was OK.
This is really interesting.
So when he says I'm
used to paying 1,000
I don't want you to
automatically say
anything else.
I just want to ask, like,
how that 1,000 video go?
Why didn't it work?
What worked it?
I just want you to get
into the habit of asking
more and more questions.
Yes I feel like because.
And I may.
I may be misreading
this because I'm now
starting to panic on time here.
Is that going back and thinking,
well, OK, well, what can we do?
Like, I don't want
to talk about me.
I want to talk about them.
The entire time because they
will convince themselves it
didn't work in the past.
Plus, you get
insider information.
You get an unfair
competitive advantage
by learning about how
it didn't work before.
You know, what you do is you
use what you've learned back
in the language when you're
speaking to them, right?
So they'll tell you three
things the last time,
like with I forget who
we were doing this with.
They said, let me
see where my notes.
So on a piece of paper?
OK they had said that all
the videos were old school.
It didn't feel modern.
It wasn't up to date.
And then I said, OK,
so expanding on that?
Was it the color, the
lighting, the styling editing?
And they said, no, I think
it was the messaging.
And then I learned it
was a talking head.
Video that was the problem.
I knew then the talking head
videos, they're boring men,
it's hard to make a talking
head video interesting.
They're automatically
going to feel out of date.
So see, like, I don't
go back to what I want.
I'm just trying to find and
keep digging and digging,
it took a while to get
this out, but say I
was talking head
videos like, OK, so
we need to do something
that's not a talking head.
Video probably.
And we need to do it with a
unified strategy for media
bias, and we're targeting
the right people.
Now, once they
figure that out, I've
already created value
for them in the moment,
creating value and insight
and clarity builds trust.
They're more likely going
to spend money with me now.
OK, so my note to all of you.
Go ahead, Diana.
I'm just taking notes on myself,
but yes, I think I did that.
And I think maybe
I could have done
that more when he was
asking for an audit
or something like that.
That's what I'm learning
from what you're saying.
Yes, I think it's Kevin Daly,
the book's Craddock selling,
he says something
really important
that I want you
all to take note.
We want to.
There it is.
Is it Kevin Daly or is
it what's his name again?
Yep, Kevin De La nailed it.
It's a horrible book design,
actually a very good book.
He says that in our
desire to close the sale,
we want to move to the
future not possible
to move to the future
until you resolve the pass.
It's like you're dating someone
and you want to get married.
But they have issues and we've
got to work through the issues
first before we can talk
about the wedding ceremony
like we want to tie the knot.
We want to do our nuptials.
Don't do that.
Revisit the past.
Find out where it broke and
get a full understanding
of where it broke.
And then you can start
to talk about the future.
So I think a lot of us
are rushing to the future
and we're not moving
enough to the past,
spend the time in the past.
Lance is looking for
that chapter right now.
I could tell.
Oh, you found it, dude.
Yeah, OK.
Yeah, good man.
I don't know why everybody's
not holding up their book
right now.
But there you go.
OK OK, now let's get back to Bob
Bob you I'm like way over time
now, but please ask your
question and thank you.
Try to help.
OK, go ahead.
Yeah, I'll be quick.
Not really an objection.
So if what happens
in my experience
is someone would
say the price is OK,
but I really need to
check with my finance.
And another one that I have
heard is I don't decide today.
I normally would need to
take 24 hours to decide.
I need to sleep over it.
Yeah, but I would say, let me,
let me address both of those.
OK let me just do this
one at a time, ok?
First one is let's do the one
where I need to sleep on it.
OK, here's what I would say.
Are you ready?
Say it to me.
Yeah, I think I really
need to sleep anomaly I
need to sleep on this for at
least a day before I decide.
Yeah bob, I want to make sure
you sleep really well tonight.
Like, you know,
getting restless sleep,
it's not good for anybody.
Is there anything
else that you're
concerned about that
would prevent you
from moving forward?
Yeah, that's good.
No, no, hey, what I'm
saying about this,
you don't break character,
Mel male is like, OK,
is there anything else
that would hold you back
from moving forward with us?
I have to check with
my team, have to see
if they can do this together.
I see.
And if your team were in this
room right now, what would
they say?
Um, they probably
say, OK, they'll
probably be good to
they'll check the schedule
and probably say, OK, OK.
And if you had like one
very cautious team member
and they're like,
this is not going
to work, what would they say?
Um, they would say maybe we are
too swamped with client work
at the moment.
And we'll need to look at
this maybe in three months.
OK, so you have too
much work right now.
Yeah, that's such a thing
as a business owner,
you telling me you
have too much work
and you don't want
any more work.
Yeah, sometimes it
does happen, does it?
Yeah maybe you need
help with scaling.
now, because, you
know, a couple of years
ago when business was so crazy,
one of the biggest business
mistakes I made was
I assumed it would
last for a really long time.
Do you how long it lasted for
months and the market crashed?
so I sit back and I think
I should have done more
to do as much as I could
in those four months
because nothing lasts forever.
I see.
What am I supposed to do now?
I don't know.
Yeah, you can do whatever the
client would do right now.
I'm making it purposely
uncomfortable for you.
OK yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll
let you know tomorrow.
OK and if you should wake up
in the middle of the night
with a fever dream about this.
Send me a message, will you?
OK Yeah.
Hello OK, Thanks very much, Bob.
And that's it.
That's all we would do.
Does I answer your
question, bob?
Yeah the exact line
I'm wearing, it's
like, I don't want to
keep you awake at night.
What's stopping you
from doing this?
Like, oh, what's hindering
you from doing this?
Yeah what would prevent you
from moving forward with me?
OK OK.
All right.
Something like that.
Yeah, see, like, I try to be
really playful with my clients,
whatever they say, I just use.
They talk about clay pigeons,
I'll talk about clay pigeons
if they talk about rag
dolls or their cat,
I'll talk about
their cat, but I'll
make it work back into this.
OK.
Because when somebody says, I
need to think it's a polite no.
You need to know that
whenever somebody says,
I need to think I'll get back
to you to politely saying no.
And that means there's an
unspoken objection that
has yet to be surfaced by you.
You will lose this job if
you don't figure it out now.
Mm-hmm everybody needs to know
that, OK, they're not really
thinking about it, they're
just saying like, I
want to tell you no right now.
You need to interpret that
as a no, it's a soft no,
but it's a know nevertheless.
And if you can save
it, now would be
the time not in the proposal.
Think about it every time
somebody knocks on the door,
wants to sell you something
like something you don't want.
Yeah, yeah, let me
talk to my wife.
Let me think about it.
Not right now.
Maybe in three months.
Those are all ways to
say no because there
want to be polite.
Yeah, ask yourself
this question.
How many times if somebody
said, I need to think about it
and I had to come back
and approve the budget?
Percentage wise, and
you'll see it's quite low.
Yeah, Kyler knows.
And think about how many
times you've said to someone,
I need to think about it or
I need to talk to my team.
And what did you really mean?
You meant to say no?
But you don't want to do that.
Let me get back to you.
You know, a guy was trying
to sell me solar panels.
Let me talk to my wife.
No, I meant no.
All right, bob, any follow up.
Otherwise, we're going
to end this call.
What about the
question on finance?
I need to check my finance.
Yeah, what are
they going to say?
I already did that.
I say, your finance
person is in the room.
What would they say
or are there concerns?
So this is someone
referring to the ghost.
Ok?
this is a term
they're referring to.
The ghost was the ghost.
Someone's not in the room.
I only have two ways to
solve this, either get
that person in the room right
now or in a future date,
or we ask them to
speak for the ghost.
Like, it's like, let's have
a say on it's like, oh,
ghost in the room.
What would you say?
Like, oh, there's
too much money?
OK, well, if we were to
talk back to the ghost,
how can we make the ghosts
feel at ease so they don't come
haunting through the halls?
Right?
we would just talk
to the ghosts.
The ghost is what people
use to speak about.
An opinion they have that
they're too scared to tell you.
And so the way that you do
this is you summon the ghost
and it allows them
to speak about one
of their fears and concerns
without feeling like they're
actually saying it.
OK that's like the wife, the
husband, the finance director,
because, you know, like
you're in charge, right?
You're the CEO, you're
the company owner,
if you want to do
this, you will do this.
So like, yeah, I'm not sure
accounting would approve this.
I'm like, well, in my
mind, I'm thinking, who
the hell is in charge counting?
Are you?
I mean, do you see
value in this so.
So that tells me there's
a budget problem.
I want to address that.
That's great, Chris,
thanks, Thanks so much.
You're welcome.
My whole purpose of doing this
is to help you guys close more,
work more consistently
with greater confidence
and to be more comfortable
talking about money.
I hope I helped
you a little bit.
Here's the trick.
You have to be able to do
this if you don't do this,
nothing will change.
As the expression goes,
if nothing changes,
nothing changes.
Now there's a mental trick,
there's two mental tricks
that I want to just
quickly tell you,
I've told you guys before trip
number one is pretend like you
don't need it or want this job.
Trip number two.
Pretend you're selling for
someone else other than you,
someone you care
about, someone you
don't want to let down because
they believe in you so much.
I was in New York, I was talking
to Mo, and I was like, dude,
I can't, I can't
charge that much.
I said, OK.
So to your partner.
Your business partner to your
employees, to your investors.
You're not going to do
what you need to do.
Because what don't say,
I like that like, well,
that's what it is.
I said, would you go to war
for your business partner?
He goes, Yeah.
Nothing would do.
Well, your business
partner has a mortgage,
has payments, has
financial obligations.
You go negotiate
for that person.
And then I was like, Oh my god,
that's a big unlock for me.
Yeah because it's
all egocentric,
it's just about
you, and then you
realize there's more at
stake here if you don't win.
Who's counting on you?
Right you have a lot
of people in your life
that are counting on you.
So sell for them, be
confident for them.
Be the person you need to be.
So the people who
are counting on you,
the people who believe in you,
live up to their expectations,
live up to their belief.
You'll be fine.
Two mental tricks, try them out.
OK, I'm going to stop the.