Pool, a clubhouse.
I need you to ping
to people that
should have direct
contact with and get them
in here because we're always
talking about sales and closing
and like Chris, is about to
give us the juice on objection
handling, which is one of the
most difficult things in sales.
So go ahead and DM to France.
Three France for France.
Very good.
The Zoom calls are starting
to turn into clubhouse calls,
and that's Mo.
And he's done.
OK, let me share my screen.
There's not much to
share today because I
want to do more exercises
with you today, ok?
And I just want
to officially kick
it off today is called number.
We're going to do
objection handling.
I want to teach you two
principles of the Socratic six.
That's part of my
objection handling
course and part of the
business boot camp,
but two principles to
help you master empathy
and to reduce
friction during sales.
OK and so I want to
introduce these two concepts,
and we'll dive into it deeper.
We're going to do a breakout
room and where to get.
We're going to get
all into this, ok?
And the thing the first
one I want to teach you
is called the Raging Bull.
And sometimes
clients come at us.
I really do mean
at us like a bull.
Full of emotion and a
lot of it's negative.
Very rarely do clients like,
I'm so happy to talk to you.
I've got so much
money to pay you.
This is incredible.
I'm ready to start today.
Usually it's the
opposite, which is like,
why should I be talking to you?
What a waste of time.
Why are you so expensive,
so they're coming at us
with a lot of negative emotion.
And what we try to do is we
retreat and we get slammed.
The more you run
away at it from it,
the more the bull
chases after you.
So what you want
to do is you just
want to identify the
emotion that's going on.
Chris Voss refers to this
is called labeling, labeling
the emotion.
So if somebody is coming
at you really angry,
just pause and be a human
being first and say.
Is everything ok?
Um, did I say
something to upset you?
And then they have to take.
Accounts of their own
energy right then and there.
The bull stops and the bull
says, why am I coming at you?
Really hard and heavy?
I just.
I just picked up the phone.
Is there something going on
that happen is now a bad time?
Do we need to reschedule?
Because I want to talk to
you in a state in which
you're ready to
talk about things.
So it's easy enough
for me to reschedule.
So that's what
you're doing, you're
trying to tune into
their energy and you'll
notice both the
techniques I'm going
to share with you today is
going to be focused on listening
to the other person.
The reason why you may
see me Excel at these role
plays, because in that
moment, I'm nothing, I'm air,
I'm not even there,
I'm just trying
to understand the other person.
And in doing so, I'm able to
bring them in and build rapport
with them.
And hopefully get them
to see me in a way
that we can have a productive
and constructive conversation.
That's really what that's about.
OK and we'll explain
more in a second.
OK I don't want to
be too kinoti here.
There's only a couple of slides.
And number two is the
double down technique.
And the double down is like when
you have a hand in Las Vegas
and you think this is it.
I'm just going to
put more chips in.
I'm a double down.
That's what you're going to do.
So it's simply, I'm just
going to agree with you.
I don't want to fight with you.
If you say this price is high,
I'm going to agree with you.
If you say this
price is really low,
I'm going to agree with you.
If you say, I don't
need to do this,
I'm going to agree with you.
And by doing that, I
align myself with a client
I'm no longer facing
them like face to face.
I'm standing side by side.
We're looking at the
same problem together,
and that's what both
these techniques do.
I try to see it from the
client's point of view.
And that makes the whole
conversation much, much easier.
So when I remove myself
from the equation.
It's a lot easier
for me to connect.
And if you've watched that
episode with our friend Wesley
little on the
YouTube channel, she
said that in therapy people
come to her who have had issues
or challenges with trust.
Their trust has been broken.
And so the first thing
they're thinking is,
can I trust you, wesley?
Or can I trust you
as a therapist?
Do you have my best
interests at heart?
So she said that
her whole objective
is just try to acknowledge
and to understand.
So the Raging Bull is
I acknowledge what's
going on with you right now.
Tell me more about that.
And if somebody is coming
at you saying, you know,
you're stupid, it's like,
OK, maybe I'm a poor fit,
I'm not going to say I'm stupid.
I'm not going to
agree with that,
but I'm like, oh, OK,
where is this coming from?
Why are we talking then?
Let's have a
conversation about it.
So here's what
we're going to do.
Um, the first way
that you're going
to handle sales and objection
is you need a different mindset,
you do need a different mindset.
I've seen sales
professionals and analyst
can back me up here.
Sales pros literally people
who train other people to sell
on Clubhouse doing role plays.
Oh, terrible.
Yeah, they're terrible.
They're like, Oh my God.
Well, you know what I'm
talking about, right?
Bad, bad, bad.
What makes them so bad, mo?
They're they're to
me, they're selfish,
and it can come across in
their tone and inflection
and language, it's about closing
versus about caring and trying
to give the client the best
solution, whether it's them
or someone else.
OK you said a lot there.
Slow down, slow down.
Let's unpack.
It's my coffee.
Drink some water, Mo.
OK, so you're saying
they're selfish?
Do we trust people
that are selfish?
Now, do we want to give people
that are selfish our business?
Or are we looking for the exit?
I mean, some of these
calls are cringe.
I have to say, if
you've listened
to some of these
sales role play rooms,
Oh my god, they're so cringe.
Either people
practicing or people
teaching both are
super cringy, and it's
no wonder creative
people hate cells
because if that's example
what good sales is,
I don't want any part of that.
I don't.
OK, so let's talk
about number one tone.
What's their tone like,
Mo, when they're talking?
The tone that I think everybody
in this room hates, which
is a little aggro, bro, aggro
roae, I mean, which is it
sounds a little high sprung,
so I don't use terminology
that people don't understand.
It's a hair too fast.
Um, and there's this.
Almost superiority
complex in their tone.
When they speak
like almost like,
I'm the shit you
need to buy from me,
you'd be losing out if
you don't, and that to me
is such a turnoff.
So those are the three that
stand out in my mind right now.
OK, let's get into that.
Usually, their tone
is very aggressive.
And it's condescending.
The you're a loser, and
I'm going to help you.
Only if you're smart enough
to pay me all your money,
it's usually and
they don't literally
say that, obviously,
I mean, some do, but.
It's really coming from
that place of superiority.
Like, you want this, don't be a
fool, you need to buy this now.
And so that's the
aggressive part,
the Brody thing is like
this thing that we describe,
I guess, to these
alpha male types.
When they're just flexing
on you the whole time.
And they'll be so quick to spin
off in a story that is totally
it cannot be proved.
Before they even
listen to you like, I
don't want to hear your
story, you don't even know me.
What are you telling me about a
story that I don't even I can't
verify if it exists or not?
So I just want you
to keep this in mind.
And the other thing
that they do is
they have a very clear hidden
agenda, it's really funny.
It's like it's not
so hidden, it's
so clear that no
matter what you say,
it's like you need a timeshare.
You just need it.
You need the under
coding for your car.
You need a new vacuum cleaner.
It doesn't really
matter what you say.
All roads lead back to
them selling you something.
Now, if we remember
from the previous call
on how to do sales, there
are three outcomes, right?
One is to hire you.
One is to hire someone else.
And the third is to do nothing.
Why is it when you
talk to salespeople,
the only option is option
number one only hire me.
I mean, not doing anything
is a valid option,
because sometimes people are
just calling to get informed.
That's all.
They just need some
information to make a decision.
OK, so your mindset has to
be the opposite of selfish.
So let's figure that out.
So if everybody can just
do me a favor here, let's
use the chat to as part of
our learning thing here, ok?
Think about a tone of voice
that you think is effective.
At building rapport.
Can you just write
that in the chat?
What do you mean by that?
Describe a tone of voice.
That is effective
for building rapport.
Describe it.
So people are writing in.
I think they're getting it.
OK yeah, here we go.
Mm-hmm OK, so what
said, Bob Ross.
Well, Bob Ross is excellent,
that's the best tone of voice.
You could have answered with.
Do you guys know
who Bob Ross is?
No he's a painting
instructor on PBS.
He has a giant Afro.
He's a white man,
and he just talks
about painting happy clouds.
Yes you know, there's no
such thing as mistakes.
That's how he talks.
What's that was that,
lexi, shiny, happy trees,
shiny, happy trees, tiny,
tiny, tiny, happy trees.
He's wonderful, by
the way, if you ever
watch one of his
painting things,
and he has so many
instructional painting
videos to paint landscapes.
It makes it feel like
you could do anything.
And you could be Mr Rogers
if you want the word.
We're going to all like
public television now.
Very calm, friendly,
happy to see you.
Welcomes you in as a friend.
That's a tone.
Yes, Bob Ross is
dead, and so is.
What is it, Mr. Mr Mr rogers?
Rogers, I was Mr
Robbins, Mr Rogers.
Yeah, both of them are
fortunately passed away.
OK so what do we know?
We know that people
that are in a rush.
They speak fast.
We don't want to be in a rush,
so we need to speak slowly.
Sorry, guys, I'm going to be
right back two sons killing me.
Yes, so you want
to speak slowly.
You want to be calm.
I'm not in a rush.
I want to hear you.
I want to understand.
I want to see you.
Those all very important things,
because when we do role play,
we're doing role play.
Yes, we are.
As panic sets in.
Look at Italy, I know people
are going to leave the room.
People are leaving the
room in about five minutes.
I could feel it.
Look at John John
starting to sweat.
I could see you.
I see you.
We're going to do it.
OK, I'm going.
I'm going to make it a
little bit easier for you.
OK so we want to
speak slowly, we
want to have this mindset
like, how can I serve you?
I need to help you figure out
one of these three options,
whether you should hire
me, hire someone else
or do nothing at all.
I'm going to help you.
That's your mindset,
I want to help you.
Be of service, so the
mindset has to be right,
and the mindset is communicated
through either tone of voice.
The other thing
that you can do is
you can smile a lot when you
speak, even if you're not
happy, just smile.
It's those mirror
neurons, people feel it.
Like, you might not smile back
at someone on the outside,
but you'll smile
back on the inside.
It's really weird
how this works,
just like when
somebody cries and you
start to cry immediately,
even if she doesn't want to.
She's just going to do it.
It's natural.
It's what happens is what
connects us as human beings.
It is right.
Yeah, she's saying Yes.
Mm-hmm OK yes, you've seen it.
You know, I have.
Well, Yes and no, I
mean, you turned away,
so I couldn't see it.
Yeah OK.
So if you're happy,
they're happy.
And if you're upset, if you're
nervous, and you're tense,
they're going to
be nervous, anxious
and they're going to be tense.
So you don't want to do that.
So your mindset has to go
into this very differently.
I want you to slow it down.
OK, so you guys remembered
the two things, right?
The raging bull, which is like,
there's an emotion going on.
I need to talk about
it and make sure you're
OK before we proceed.
We have to make sure
you're OK in the present.
And the second thing is, I just
want you to agree with people.
So when they throw an
objection objection at you,
you'll see how powerful this is.
You'll see it's surprising.
It's surprising how
effective it is.
And it gives you space to
think, to both of them.
So you're not so
put on the spot.
OK, so those are
the only two things
I want you to think about.
So what I want to do is I want
to break this room up into,
I'm thinking to two groups,
OK, we're going to try this.
It's kind of crazy.
I've never done this before.
I'm going to break this group
into two breakout rooms.
I'm going to join one
of them at random.
And the one that
I join, I'm going
to teach you kind of how to
respond to the objection.
The one that I don't join.
I want you to talk about the
most frustrating objections
that you hear from your clients.
What kind of crappy
things do they say to you?
This one should be fun
now, Chandler, I'm hoping
will be in one of
those two rooms
that I'm not in because
he's the sales professional
and there's another
person in here,
I don't know if
he's on the call.
Is he on the call today?
Chandler no, he's not.
OK, so Chandler's a
salesperson, that's
what he does for a living.
So he probably knows some
advanced techniques as well.
So, OK, so we're going to
split the room into two.
I'm going to actually
join one of them.
We're going to just do
this for five minutes.
So if I'm not in your
room, just give it a beat.
If I'm not in your room,
you're the objection group.
OK, you're in the
objection group,
so that means you're going
to tell each other like what
your worst, most horrific
things that clients say out
of their mouth whole.
And then you're going to write
down your top 3 as a group.
OK, and we're
going to come back,
we're going to talk about this.
OK, you guys ready?
I stay ready.
Born, ready.
OK and I was like,
dang, right, ready.
OK, here we go there.
Thank you.
The thumbs are up.
There we go.
Here we go.
Sign automatically to rooms.
Remember, if I'm
not in your room,
you're the objection
room that gave me
your top three most horrific
things the client say to you.
OK opening all the rooms.
OK, I'm going to join room one.
Big money, big money, big
money, big money, big money.
I don't know, I
can't join a room.
Oh, no.
do you guys need help
in joining a room?
Are you just not able to join
because of circumstances?
Oh, OK, that's not too bad.
No, that's a nice one.
That's too bad.
Let's go to the next harder one.
That one's almost too easy.
Mm-hmm OK the next is.
Can you guarantee the result?
Oh, yeah, that came
from last week's call.
OK, so this is what we can do.
That's a good one.
Can you guarantee?
The results.
Beautiful OK.
Just because I'm mindful
of time and everything
I want to start with.
Can you guarantee the results?
Ok?
I think last week,
whoever brought that up,
can you raise your
hand so I can see you?
I want you to play
that role if you've
heard this many times before.
I want you to raise
your hand because I
need you to play the client.
Ok?
ammad, did you or
you the one person
who brought it up last week?
Or is it you?
Yeah Yeah.
OK OK, so you're going to get
to play that role, OK, you're
going to be the client.
Ok?
and I'm going to
pull the Tom Tom,
you're going to
play the role of.
You're just going to
sell about something.
What do you normally do?
What do you make?
I'm the vendor, right?
Yeah, you're the vendor.
You're just playing yourself.
Yeah, OK, I'm just
playing myself.
Yeah, so what do you normally
make, what do you do?
As someone tells
me, if someone asked
me, what do you do in real
life, like you build websites,
you make animations,
what do you do?
Oh no, I create content
for marketing agencies,
which is like video and stuff.
OK you create video content.
Yeah and it's more
expensive than normal videos
because we're shooting
with cinema cameras and.
OK, so you high a
love this stuff.
Yeah you create high
and cinematic content.
OK all right.
And you're one of
our younger people,
so I love that
you're volunteering,
so this is awesome.
So we're going to enter into
roleplay mode in the role.
Play is going to be
pretty straightforward.
The only person who's
playing something
is Ahmad because he's
going to play the client.
OK, Ahmad, just so
so that Tom doesn't
go into this totally blind.
What's what's the temperature?
Are you going to be
super crazy, aggro
or are you going to be medium?
Or are you just going
to be more normal?
No, I just will like recall
one of the calls I had,
which was pretty
normal, it's a newcomer.
OK, so the Tom doesn't
get slaughtered here, ok?
OK, so the whole
point of this is
Tom is going to talk to you
about some creative service,
right?
Just briefly.
And you're going to respond
with that objection.
And then we're going to
see how Tom reacts to that.
And we'll just watch and
everybody just have a listen
and then we'll take some notes.
OK, so let's try to keep
this under five minutes.
So if it starts to drag,
I'll give you a prompt.
Like, pick it up or we're done.
OK, so Tom, kick it off.
Are we jumping right away?
Like to the point
where he asked me,
which guarantees I can make?
Or do we stop them from the sun?
You just tell them,
like some service,
that you're going to do.
So we have a little kind of warm
up here and then he'll respond.
But is he approaching
me or is it
me who approached him
wanting to say something?
You're on the phone together?
What's that, ammad?
Well, I can be approaching him.
Why don't you start?
Just start over.
OK, cool.
Yeah hey, man, you saw way.
Go ahead.
So thank you for having me.
I have this e-commerce
fashion store
and I've been taking
beautiful pictures.
But nowadays I've been seeing
that videos are performing
really well for some
of my competitors,
so I wanted to approach you
and see what you can do for us.
Hey, Alan, nice
that you reach out.
Thanks for that.
So you need a
video that converts
better because the video is
not working right for you
right now.
So exactly, I'm not doing
videos at the moment.
Oh, and you want to do videos?
Yeah OK.
Want to jump on that
trend, you know?
OK yeah, I see.
So that's why you want
to do videos because you
want to jump on the trend.
Yeah, basically.
OK if they're performing
well for other competitors.
OK you see, it's competing.
It's working better
for other competitors.
So you think this is your go
to option right now, right?
Yeah OK.
Um, Yeah.
So what kind of
video do you need?
What do you expect
from the outcome?
So basically, I'm
looking for a video
that shows our products more
vividly and engages customers.
So that they convert better
and buy from our website
and return back.
Et cetera OK.
So you basically want to
increase like the relationship
to the clients?
Yeah, basically, I want to
increase the relationship.
So what's the rough figure of?
How much would that cost?
And would cost like around
K. Thank for how many videos.
One video one with you.
Well, yeah, it's like
it's like a video
you can split that video up and
use it on several use cases.
That's what we offer to do,
like a little bit of a strategy
up front to make sure that
the video works everywhere.
If you need that.
But that's where we would
start, because right now.
I don't even know
what exactly you need.
I got to get a little
bit more of an insight.
So let's say it's a 5 minute
video that is 4 typekit,
correct?
Yeah all right, and
based on your experience,
based on your experience
with e-commerce client,
what's the conversion
rate for that?
I have to admit I'm
not I'm not only
working with e-commerce clients,
and it's not my main thing
to do.
So you should know that.
And you just asked me for
the guarantees that go on.
Yeah I just want to know,
like the average conversion
percentage for such videos,
so I can expect somehow
of results because based on
my experience with dealing
with like graphic designers
and digital marketers,
I've paid a lot of money, but
I haven't seen the return on ad
spend.
So I just want to
make sure when I
get into another gig or another
relationship with someone
that I have a KPI is ready and
we can put it in the contract.
So that we hold ourselves
accountable for financially
and work wise, for
such guarantees.
I see.
So it looks to me like the
video is very important for you
to bring out these
numbers, these KPIs that
are important to you.
Definitely that's
basically what I am doing.
So what exactly are these?
Let me just note that, Tom.
What are what are
the caveats that you
want to hit with the video?
What does it say to you?
More sales, Miss Martha.
I want to call pause for
just a half a second here.
OK hey, Tom, I noticed
your tone of voice
is exactly how you always talk.
Are you practicing your
tone of voice right now?
I'm just curious.
Following up.
OK, so why don't we
try that remember,
we're trying to be like the
I don't know how people are
interpreting it, but
the way I interpret
is you're talking a little
fast and in a very staccato,
little bursty kind of things.
And if I were to imagine,
like you as an animal,
I'd imagine you as a
chihuahua right now.
You know, chihuahua.
Let's go for a walk.
You know, he's kind of
like that very friendly.
But it's like, you know, you
need to calm down a little boy.
You know, the chihuahua.
It's like, OK, so I want you to
be like, like a Saint Bernard.
Led out of MDG, yeah, I
need you to slow down,
you're just slow
down, you're just tone
to slow down your roll.
And then I want you to
enter back into this,
OK, because I'm just noticing
that and some of us that
are listening to you,
some people are saying,
you sound confident.
Some people are saying, I feel
a little nervous and anxious,
just listening to Tom.
Yeah, I should look at
the chat doing this.
No, no, you can't, you can't
promise you, can't you?
Because I actually to get the.
You're not looking shadow.
It'll mess you up.
Do not turn off the chat.
Hide the chat.
Ok?
I just need you to slow it down.
If you have
different speeds, now
is the time to shift it in
that slow speed and slow down.
OK, all right.
Continue on.
OK so what can the ice do you
need to put that video, what
metrics do matter to you?
So ultimately, I
want convergence,
but of course I want.
I wanted to create a buzz.
Shared videos are pretty
valuable because I
think ultimately I
need a video that
creates a buzz
around the community
and around my target audience
where they interact with it,
share it with their friends
and ultimately create
more convergence.
OK they talk about I think
the main challenge is
to create a buzz around
your community, right?
It's amazing that you
said that and also you
want this video to be
shared like to go viral.
Is that what you want
to achieve with that?
Yeah, I want people to share it.
Going viral is a long
shot, but I want people
to feel the urge to share.
I see.
So how are you going to?
How are we going to do this?
So, yeah, as I
told you, I would,
I've seen your work before, and
I really want to work with you,
but I just need some kind of
numbers to get to my partners
and tell them that we're going
to be investing this amount
and probably we're going
to get this amount back.
OK so you asked me for an
average conversion rate
that I can guarantee you that.
Is that true?
OK, let's say the
minimum conversion rate
you can have assuming we
spent $30,000 to advertise
for this with you.
OK, so I see you want to
advertise for that video
as well, like after
we made the video.
OK, that sounds good to me.
Let me ask you one question, ok?
What would be a conversion
rate that you could work with?
So good question.
So I'm not really sure
that's why I ask you
in the beginning what based
on your experience, what
would be the conversion
rate for such videos?
However, I would want between
10% and 20% Between 10% and 20%
Yeah OK.
Is that like in your
industry, is that a high
or a low conversion rate?
Like what is like you say
you want to focus on that.
That's a pretty high conversion.
OK but when I say when I'm
talking about conversion rate,
I mean people who
watch the video
and then they click, so I want
to be able to measure everyone.
All right.
Go ahead, Chris.
OK I'm a timeout here.
I'm a timeout here.
There's a couple of
things that Tom is doing.
First of all, Tom, your
adjustment in real time.
Fantastic people are like, wow,
just using, you know, just.
Just simply they
just slowing down
has created a whole other
feeling in the room.
Because if I had to guess
you just age like five
years in maturity,
you really I mean,
you went from the chihuahua.
Maybe you're not the
Saint Bernard yet,
but you just graduated
from Chihuahua.
OK, I'm going to give you, I
don't know, your next big dog.
Like, you're like Lassie.
You know you're
getting up there.
We just want you to be a
big, slow, lumbering dog.
That's what we want.
The hyperactive one.
So wonderful.
There you've I'm going
to point this out.
I'm doing this to
help you learn, ok?
I notice a couple of things
when Ahmad said something,
you didn't fully listen to
what it is he was saying,
and you introduce
new vocabulary.
And he had to correct you.
That's a sign that tells
me clearly as a client,
you are not listening to me.
OK, I'll tell you
two instances that
were very clear in the very
beginning as we're starting,
Ahmaud was saying something
about other people making
videos and now he's
interested in it.
And so you automatically assume
also you're doing videos,
you just want them to be better.
And he's like, no,
I'm not doing videos.
He had to correct you.
That's a sign that we're
not totally dialing in.
So what I would do is I would
just ask more questions.
I want to understand what
the heck Ahmad is saying.
The second thing
I noticed that you
did when this
happened was you're
like, so you want to
make a viral video?
Now you've already gone beyond
what the heck you wanted,
and now you're going to
dig yourself into a hole.
Like if you know how
to make viral videos.
Tom, you and I need to
talk because I'll pay you
money to make viral videos.
Very few people, aside from
Mr. beast or pewdiepie,
can make viral videos.
They're not easy to do.
And so he was like, oh, no
viruses like too far again.
If I were asking him, I
don't need to ask him,
but he would feel like it's
Tom really listening to me.
OK, so I'm going to pull
you out from the role-play.
First of all, awesome job.
Congratulations right, right.
Congratulations there we go.
Now I need to get to the part.
So I'm going to I'm
going to do this again.
I'm going to do
this with the mod.
We're going to take
it from the top.
OK, so ammad, you and I, we're
just going to do this again.
I would like for you
to start it as close as
possible to the exact
same way you did before.
OK and as I'm doing
this, I may pause,
break character and explain
to you what's going on
and then reenter.
Normally, I don't
do that because I
want you to learn, excuse me,
I want you to learn from this.
OK, everyone.
We're going to do that and feel
free to wave or do something
to get my attention.
If I'm doing something
that you don't understand.
OK, everyone and the parts
where I'm explaining I'm I
don't react to
that, obviously I'm
talking to them, not to you.
OK, let's start again.
OK, go ahead.
All right.
Hey, Chris.
So thank you for having me.
I have an e-commerce
fashion store
and I really want to push
it through video content.
So far, I've been doing
all photo photoshoots,
and many of my competitors
are leveraging videos
and repeatedly
I've seen it might
have been working for them,
so I want to try it out.
OK, well, thank you for
taking the time to talk to me.
I'm excited about your business.
So you do you do fashion?
Like what kind of
fashion work do you do?
So basically, women
fashion dresses.
Online store.
OK is this like a high
end market middle end
or are we talking fast fashion?
No, it's middle land, it's
not too high, so it's middle.
And what's the average price
of a dress that you sell?
It's around $400.
Wow Yeah.
OK, I need to update my
catalog of women's fashion
for 100 middle end, huh?
That sounds pretty good.
OK.
And is your business
doing well right now?
Yeah, it's doing one,
but basically I'm
getting more dresses
and more stock,
so I want to push more
for currently in the UAE
and I want to push for the
Gulf region in general.
OK oh, so it sounds like you
want to expand your market?
Yeah OK.
And you said you have you're
increasing your product
line as well.
Yeah OK.
Excellent do by
how much you plan
to expand the product line?
30% OK, very good.
I love this so far.
OK, now getting back to
your original inquiry here,
you said that some
of your competitors
are starting to use
video and you're only
using stills right now, right?
Yeah OK.
And do you have any
evidence that the videos
are working for them?
So my only evidence
is that they've
been since they
started making videos,
they have been
repeatedly doing so.
And my assumption is whenever
something is working,
they do it again.
And that is a good indication
that it's worked, ok?
I think that's a pretty logical.
It's not always true,
but it's pretty logical.
When we see something repeated,
it must be working for them.
Now, since we have no data
to verify whether or not
these things are effectively
moving more products
or expanding their
reach, are you
willing to take that same
kind of risk Gamble yourself?
Um, so, yeah,
definitely, of course,
I want to test new ideas, that's
why I want to make a video.
OK and in the hopes that videos
will increase my conversion
rate and increase my sales 10%
OK I'm just going to play along
with you here because
I just want to know
how much of a
commitment do you want
to make in terms of
running videos and running
a video campaign?
Like, do you want
to do this once
or do you want to do this
over a period of time?
So basically, I want to start by
doing it once, and if it works,
I want to repeatedly
do it, do it.
OK and what will
make it work for you?
An increase in sales,
basically an increase
in sales and by how much?
10% And if you can increase
sales by 10 percent,
what would that mean to
you in your business?
Like how much revenue
are we talking about?
So that's around
$50,000 extra a month.
OK so it wouldn't make more
sense to if you increase 50 k,
so you basically if you can
spend anything less than 50k,
you're out ahead, right?
Oh, my God.
Anything like the cost
to acquire a customer,
if it's less than 50k, then
you're going to make money
and if you spend more than 50k,
you're going to lose money.
Is that right?
Yeah, definitely, if
I spend more than 50.
Well, OK, so what
number would you
feel comfortable spending to
increase your revenue by 50 k?
So I'm looking forward to
invest in this around 5,000.
OK OK.
Because I have the
advertising budget
that I'm going to use to
push any piece of content
that we're going to get, right?
So you sound like a
pretty savvy media person.
So there's a budget
to produce the content
and there's a budget to
promote that content, right?
You're factoring that in.
Is that right?
Well, that's correct.
How much money will you
plan to spend to boost this?
Around $10,000.
OK so you're going to spend 5K
to produce the video and 10K
to boost it, right?
Yep.
OK.
All right.
Do you have any of
the questions for me?
No other than how much do
you think it would cost and.
How much do you
think it will grow?
My sense?
Yeah, I don't know,
and since this
is the first time
you're doing this,
it's going to take some
time to find your audience.
I think we need to have a
more comprehensive marketing
strategy besides making a
video and seeing what works.
And let me explain what I mean.
I can make you something for 5K.
I don't know if it's
going to work for you.
I really honestly don't.
But in the past,
I think it works
better, especially
in the beginning,
for you to try lots
of different ideas
and put a little bit
money behind that
and see which videos work
and then adjust in real time.
That means that if you
were to work with me,
we have to make a lot of videos.
And that wouldn't be
super high quality,
but we're just trying a
bunch of different ideas
to see which ones get the
best click through rate,
which I like the sound of that.
How much do you think
such a thing would cost?
You know, off the
top of my head,
I'm going to say
it's probably going
to be anywhere just for me
to do the production work,
probably around $15,000 to
do it for the first month.
But in that time, we'll try
a bunch of different ideas
with you to see what works.
So $15,000 for a month to
try different kinds of videos
and then know what
kind of videos
work better for my brand.
Mm-hmm That's right.
By the end of this month, we
do have an analysis report.
I guarantee or
something like that.
I would not give you an analysis
report at the end of the month,
I would be doing it with
you on a weekly basis.
OK, I think you need to know, I
think we need to know together.
All right.
Yeah, I think that sounds
good, so after a month when
everything is clear, do
you think after that,
we can have a longer
commitment where
we're having more
of clear guidelines
on what would be the
results, the guarantees
and the conversion
rates, etc., etc.?
Yeah any long term commitment,
we will be entirely up to you
if the results aren't good.
I would recommend not
continuing unless you're
committed to a
long term strategy
to see if this will work.
I think you mentioned that
your competitors are doing
this multiple months, and so it
takes time to find an audience.
don't want to lie to you.
I don't want to
overpromise anything.
So at the end of this, if
we see a marginal increase
and you're willing
to continue it,
I'm willing to do
the work with you.
If you see phenomenal
results, will the answer will
be self-evident, right?
You get to decide.
Yeah, that works, I think.
That first month was
be critical to me
figuring out what works with
me and moving forward later.
OK well, fantastic.
I have one more
question for you.
I'm sure you have a lot of
people you need to talk to.
Is there anything else
I can do to give you
the information you need to
decide one way or the other?
If I'm the I'm a good
fit for you, Ahmad.
So apart from that, I would
need kind of exactly how
many ideas are we can attest?
Yes makes sense.
What would be the commitment
in terms of meetings and.
That's about it.
OK so I can go away and I
can write that up real quick,
I can put together
a one page deal memo
to outline what I'm thinking
in terms of the approach.
I think that's very
fair that you ask that.
And then if I send
that to you, will you
be able to make a decision?
Yep OK, great.
I hear this young gun.
His name is Tom, and you might
be talking to him as well.
I just I'm just
kidding about the part.
OK, let's just stop right there.
So that's Chris.
That's exactly what I did
when I had that client.
I told them that we're going to
test it for first three months,
and then I'll be able to
make to answer your question
about the guarantee.
So, yeah, but you never asked
me for the guarantee, though.
That's the thing
you went when you
talked about the testing
and the first month.
You'll have to test ideas
because you really don't.
You can't answer the question.
It doesn't make sense.
It really doesn't make sense.
The question itself doesn't
make sense because you're new.
You don't know my business.
I don't know my video business.
I have never tested with
you before to ask you
for a guarantee.
So it's yeah, you sold
me on something else.
What I'm looking for.
But yeah, that's OK.
I want to hit pause.
Ok?
Ahmaud was.
Not totally happy
with me last week.
He's like, Chris, you need
to answer this question.
I'm like, oh, wait.
That's an objection
thing, I promise you
I'll deal with us next week.
And did, first of
all, ammad, are
you OK with the way
I handled it now?
Yeah, it's great.
OK well.
Something happens here.
I swear to you, this
happens all the time
because you guys that
are watching this?
I do.
Why is he so nice to you?
Why did he just
agree to everything?
This is so b.s.,
and I'm going to be
an evil client with Chris,
and we will do the dance
and then other people will
say the same thing about you.
You're like, why
weren't you evil to him?
Why weren't you nasty?
Well, it's not.
I don't think it was about
me being evil or nasty.
It was about you challenging
my beliefs and whatever I said.
You said something
that makes more sense.
So basically about that shut
me up, basically in a way,
I think.
OK, all right.
Let's let's have a
conversation about this.
So we can do this
in orderly fashion.
Everyone, just
raise your hand that
wants to ask a question
or comment, an observation
or anything like that, and
I'll be happy to explain.
So I think the hand, that's
Lexi male and then Sana.
OK, Yeah.
So I just I think
you kind of did
give him like you
answered the guarantee
question by saying that we'll go
through an analysis every week.
Right I mean, he can.
I mean, that's
what I don't know.
It sounded like that's
how you addressed
it, which then
sounded good up front,
but then I was
like, Oh god, wait.
Every week we're going to have
to sit down and do an analysis
on one of these things.
But maybe my question
is kind of like,
is that kind of just a way to
ease into the conversation?
And then you figure out whether
you actually put that analysis
thing in your quote
or your proposal,
but at least it got
him over the hump.
You know, that's how
I'm positioning it.
All right, lexi, so let me
answer a couple of things here.
OK, this is a good
thing that you bring up.
I happen to know a
little bit about how
marketing campaigns are run.
I also am a person who
embraces like making sure
that what I do actually
matters and moves the needle.
So when I, when something has
is measurable as an ad campaign,
it click through rates.
I also want to know.
Many years ago, I ran a
simple Facebook ad campaign.
I learned a lot just by running
a campaign myself and you run
six or so ads in a day, and
the ones that don't perform,
you just kill them instantly.
And I have to do that if
I'm a responsible marketer.
And sharing those
results with the clients
actually involves
them in the process
and doesn't scare me at all.
So I have to know a little
bit about marketing.
And advertising
what the heck it is
that I'm doing to even have
this kind of conversation,
the wherewithal
to bring this up.
So if you're a person
who does video production
and you never run
a campaign before
and you enter into a
conversation with amad,
you won't even know
to bring this up.
You'll be talking
about the cameras
that you're going to use
and how cool the editing is
going to be.
And they could care less.
So, lexi, to me.
So, yeah, because I feel
like with digital content,
I think that's an easy win
because you do have numbers
that you can have, it's
quantitative or whatever,
but with brand
strategy or design,
like someone's asking
me to do a sales sheet
or we're talking about
doing brand strategy.
And it's like, well, first of
all, that's a loftier thing.
People don't quite understand
all that goes into it.
Then it's like,
well, how can you
guarantee that I'm
going to hit the market?
And wow, everybody
with my yeah, Yeah.
So I would counter with you
that brand strategy is literally
what I'm doing and look can
argue with me because I want
to help the clients go from
where they're at to where they
want to be and use the
entire arsenal of my,
my design thinking, my
brain, my creativity
to help them figure that out.
So we'll circle back to that.
Perhaps you're talking
about identity design,
which is like touch, feel,
look and that kind of stuff
and tone.
And it's some harder to measure.
Not impossible, Lexi.
So I will answer that objection
with you if we have time.
Time permitting, OK.
That OK, Lexi.
Yeah, sure.
OK, thank you, super.
So male, what's your
question or comment?
Oh hey, go ahead, Mo.
Can I cut the line
real quick just
to put something on your mind?
I think I know
you say people say
that the client was too soft.
I do think the way
Ahmed got on the call
was very different than how
he got on the call with Tom.
Just going to put
that out there.
So I'd like you to revisit that.
I'm going to revisit right now.
Tom was high energy and
that was high energy.
Tom was not totally
listening to it.
Tom was not asking him
questions about his business,
and so I focused focus
entirely the entire call.
All my questions were all
about what Ahmed wanted.
All of it.
You know, you're saying no.
No, I don't disagree with
you on how you performed.
I disagree with Ahmed.
The first thing out of his
mouth with you is like,
Chris, thank you so much
for taking this call.
He said at the time, he said
the exact same thing to Tom.
He was almost verbatim
to the opening.
Oh, come back at me.
It was the tone man, the tone.
You're wrong, dude.
No, no, no wrong.
He's a character actor.
You don't.
You don't know he's gone.
Full method here.
We'll play back the tape.
You'll see we can.
I think the inflection was like,
I'm speaking to Chris Delaware.
Shut the front door.
I'm telling you.
No but anyway, look at we got.
We got hands.
OK, hell on our hands.
Come care.
No, I understand that the
way you talk and the tone you
get in the conversation,
you bring the person
back to where you want it to be.
So independently, if
it's Christo or anything,
I think I already got that.
I learned that you have to bring
to where you want it to be,
right, the energy and all that.
So I get that.
So maybe that's why he was so.
Yes yes, Yes.
Yes to him and I and I learned
that a tip for the sales,
right?
You get them to say Yes.
However, what if he hasn't said?
Because when you ask for
the budget very smartly,
I don't know if that's an
adverb, but a nice way,
you said.
And he said, oh, I can.
I want to spend $5,000.
And then you came back
saying that will stop $5,000.
You will maybe
get to the result.
That's just a start point.
And then he agreed
with it, which was
all the budget he had, right?
He only had five.
And so I was a little
tricky about that.
It was like, what if he didn't
say, wait for $5000, you only.
It's just a start.
What if he was a client on that?
You know more on that.
Yes, please, please.
OK, you guys are
definitely going
to want to write down whatever
you thought of the call,
and I want you to
listen back later
on when this call is posted to
see if your observations were
correct or not,
including Moe and male.
Now I'm going to
point something out,
and I'll bet you'll correct
me if I'm wrong here.
I asked them about
what kind of results
you wanted because I only
care about the results
that he cares about.
My clients, if
they want to, like
sound like super high
energy and have a new logo,
then if that's what
they care about
and they're really
sure about it,
then that's what I care about.
He wanted to increase his
sales by 10% I asked him,
what would that mean in terms
of additional revenue for you?
And this was the trap.
The trap, as I
asked him to think
about his future
and entrepreneurs,
they're very optimistic.
He's like $50,000.
And if he didn't
want to tell me.
There's other ways I
would have done it,
but he just went with it.
I'm imagining now it's
not because I'm Chris.
No, because I've made
him feel comfortable,
like I'm a business person too,
and I speak the same language.
He's not thinking this is some
young kid trying to fish money
from me.
Right, because I
asked them, like,
what is where is he positioned
in the market middle end?
How much does a dress
average dress cost?
$400 Notice nobody else talks
about this kind of stuff.
And what do you want
to do with this,
oh, you want to
expand the market
and increase the product
line by how much?
30 percent?
So he's now getting
really comfortable
telling me all kinds of things.
And I earned it, I earned it
one basic question at a time.
So at this point, he says 50k.
And I said, what would be a
reasonable amount of money
to spend?
And he says 5K.
And then he
volunteers a new piece
of information, which if
you weren't really paying
attention, you
wouldn't even hurt it.
He's like, I understand.
I also have to
have an ad budget.
So he was using like phrasing
that you might not understand,
but that means he was
prepared to spend on media by.
Paid media not
just earned media.
So he's now and then
I say it to him back.
You're a sophisticated
person who
understands about
marketing because he
happens to be a
sophisticated person,
understands what marketing.
Most clients aren't
that sophisticated.
So then he then
he's like, I'm going
to spend K. Now I know his
budget in his mind is 15k.
OK, so he's already telling
me all kinds of stuff,
and then I say, OK, what
can we do with that?
I said, well, I'll
do whatever you want,
but we're going to need to test.
And as soon as we start
talking about that,
he feels even more comfortable.
And at some point he
says, how much would it
cost to spend with you, I said,
I think 15k for the first month
because I know he's
willing to spend 10.
You can't spend more on a media
buy than you can on the art,
on the art, that doesn't
make sense to me.
Go ahead.
The wording test is a
music to marketers ears.
So when he said test
and I'm going to,
I know I'm going to spend
$10,000 to test and maybe fail.
So when he said that I'm going
to not only give you one video,
but I'm going to give
you multiple videos
and then test with you and
analyze what work, what,
what's not.
So he really reduced
my marketing budget.
Tremendously from 10,000
to maybe less just to test
and understand what's going on.
And that's what
made me actually,
but when I was
speaking with Tom,
he said 10,000 in the
beginning, without us,
without us going
a lot in numbers.
So that shook me in a
little way and maybe became
a bit more aggressive
or I don't know,
the chats are so
hilarious, you guys.
We just want your funny,
aggressive objections.
First of all, I
won't let you go not.
And we'll let you
know something.
Mo is the toughest
dance partner I've ever
had in any of these
role plays ever.
He is so trained to go after me.
He brings the Middle East to
like the whole conversation.
I'm like, Oh my god, we're
inching into the Warrior.
He is the toughest, the
toughest nut to crack.
And he has to
fight himself, too,
because oftentimes he'll tell me
afterwards, you had me at Yes.
And halfway through, I have
to just stay in the role.
Right?
OK, let's just
keep going on here.
OK, so now what
happened there was.
We're opening it up to have
a business conversation
and just write down in your
notes, write to a marketer,
testing matters.
It means that we're
not just going
to throw a bunch of B's
and hope for the best.
We need to have a
plan and we're going
to be accountable
accountability.
People try to hide me.
I embrace it.
OK all right.
OK, so mel, are we ok?
OK, I'm going to move on, and
then so now, Sana, go ahead.
So I think more of my
reason for raising my hand
was to stand up for wanting
a few more objections
or like throwing the
vendor off like moments
of throwing the vendor off.
So any point in time, I
think even though Ahmed.
How he's feeling these musics
to his ears kind of thing,
I would have just maybe like
to see something weird because
to me, like every
time I get a client,
there's always something
really weird about them.
Yeah, and it's fine.
I like them.
But yeah, OK, OK, hold on.
I'll play with you. do the
dance with you in a second.
OK, so let's just get
really quick here.
Just Joshua, Tom
and the Ricardo.
And then we're going
to go, go and do
something a little tougher.
Go ahead.
OK that's my cue, right?
OK so this week I had
a call with Ali Cisco.
It was not someone
I don't know before.
It was someone I don't
work for previously.
And they really liked it.
So they are coming
back because they
know this other service
I can offer them,
which is to give the website.
She talked really fast like she.
She unloaded all
information on me.
So I don't want
to ask, like, how
do I slow her down
without being rude?
Because normally I'm
like, OK, Josh, I'm sorry,
you're giving me too much
information right now,
and I'm having a hard
time taking notes.
We just slow down a little bit.
Sure my brain doesn't
work that fast.
Is that ok?
It's OK.
That's how you do it.
I can.
Oh, OK.
Oh, you see, I just did it.
All right.
All right.
All right.
Because I to what?
I have to move on.
I just did it.
You asked the question.
I gave you an answer as
literally how you're like,
Oh my God.
Oh gosh, I'm so sorry.
My circuits are
frying right now.
I'm just so sorry.
Can we just slow down?
See, first, I meet
them with their energy.
Oh my god, Oh my god,
I'm so that's our energy.
Then I say, can we
just slow it down?
So imagine Mira, right, you're
coming in real hot and heavy
with me right now.
Can we just take a breath?
Just like that,
we transition in.
All right, Joshua, hang tight.
That's how you do it.
We'll talk later.
I want to bring a new thing
because I got to get to this
final because she's not going
to be happy with me if I don't.
Ok?
Tom, quickly go.
Yeah first of all, thank you.
Thank you, Ahmad,
and thank you, Chris,
for giving me that
feedback as well
with the chihuahua example
comparing me to dogs.
Yeah, and I, I
learned something new.
First of all, I learned that
it's incredibly important
to focus on to
focus on the client
and to get into his
brain and not reading
Zoom chats or anything else.
Yeah and what I also
recognize is that when
I slowed down and shifted the
energy and pump myself down.
And that's changing
my own mood and making
me ask other questions
and shifting the energy.
I've done speaking.
Thank you.
Isn't that weird, tom?
Isn't that weird?
Just by changing
your tone of voice,
all of a sudden, your whole
energy changes and then
their energy changes.
So there's a couple of
things that I want all of you
to do at some point.
I need you to invest in
the acoustics of your call.
I'm talking about
the microphone,
I'm talking about
your headphone.
I'm talking about the materials
that you use in your room.
My business coach told me
this many, many years ago.
He says, you know, I called
in to your conference room
and you guys sound like
you're 30 feet away.
You sound like you're in a cave.
How am I supposed
to connect with you.
When you sound
physically distant to me?
The next day, I called
acoustical engineers
to come into the room and
spent thousands of dollars
adding rigid foam, acoustical
foam, fabric materials
and changing the acoustics
in the entire room.
And then he called back
and he said much better.
I cannot feel like
I'm connecting to you.
If I'm way back here yelling
at you the whole time.
So you need to get a
microphone like, you know,
and if you're going
to win business,
this is not an expense.
This is an investment.
All of you.
You can do it cheaply.
Like this one.
And I told Emily, I have
six microphones, literally,
I have six microphones.
Because I'm going
to make it work.
Microphone number three.
See, I have a lot
of microphones.
Whatever I need to do.
There's even more mics
under the table here.
OK, so you need to do this
so you can connect to people.
And the way I can do it,
I can slow my voice down,
and this microphone
adds a lot of bass.
It's naturally going
to sound lower.
Then my true voice.
Wait a minute.
OK that's what you got to do.
So, yeah, this is
the other microphone.
You can get this one.
This one's a USB one.
It's really good to.
OK, let's keep going here.
So is it Ricardo next?
Because I don't want to spend
too much time on this question.
I'd love to see another
objection, mainly
with like maybe someone's
a little bit tougher,
but how you said
earlier you kind of
knew a little bit of
marketing and brand strategy
and a couple of things.
This is why you were
able to kind of meet him
where he was at versus Tom,
where he was just it's one.
Video I can't really guarantee
the results K. So how do you?
How do you have that guarantee
objection when you don't
have that design background?
I'm thinking for insurance.
You learn design, thinking,
you learn marketing.
I'll teach it to.
You need a broad business
background, and there's a book.
It's called the 101 things I
learned in business school,
it's a good primer.
There's another book.
It's called creative strategy
in the business of design,
written by my friend
Douglas Davis, also
a pretty good primer.
You need to start
with something.
And that term that you hear,
if all you have is a hammer,
everything looks like a nail.
And if Tom is only carrying
around a cinematic video
hammer.
Then all problems sound
like cinematic videos.
That's the problem.
That makes sense.
So I needed to know a
little bit about marketing
to be able to have that
conversation with them,
but here's the cool thing.
Like I say, you
only need to have
one smart expert in the room.
I'm happy to be the dummy.
I'll just keep asking more
questions to the person.
It's like, oh, so what
kind of marketing thing
will work for you and
what kind of conversion?
You know what has to happen
or what kind of results
do you need?
How much money will you spend?
What makes sense?
You just ask questions.
They'll tell you.
Within the client is the answer,
and I'm going to dig it out,
and if they say something
that sounds funny to me,
I'll just ask another
question like when he said,
I want to make 50,000
increase revenue
and I only want to spend
10% to get there at 5 k.
And I to spend double that
amount in media by a light bulb
went off in my head.
I'm like, wait a minute,
that sounds a little bit off
a little off balance there.
It's just that the media
buyer that's going to get you
or is that too creative?
I know it's going
to be the creative.
Otherwise, spend
$1 on the creative
and spend 50,000
on the media by.
And I know he knows that, too.
That's why he acquiesced.
So we need to know a little
bit about broad business stuff.
And so some future calls, we
can talk about these concepts.
If you remind me and I'll teach
you everything that I know
and annually will help too,
because she has a marketing
background.
OK yeah, thank you.
Can you repeat the two
books one more time?
Yeah 1,000 Yeah.
101 things I learned
in business school.
And the other book is called
Creative strategy, of course.
Thank you.
Thank you, Lance.
And the creative strategy
in the business of design
written by Douglas Davis.
OK all right.
Thanks yeah, Yeah.
So I would start with 101
things, a business school,
it's a pretty good primer.
Very high level,
it's just enough
to like, OK, I can have a
semi decent conversation
and the visual MBA
is also pretty good,
although I've only read
like seven pages from it.
OK anyways, let's
give it to you,
if you want to learn more
about brand strategy,
you must also listen to
me and Chris on Sundays.
Hey, Emily, I got
Johnny cupcakes agree.
Oh my God.
Surprise announcement OK.
OK Yes.
OK, so let's go back to Santa.
Sana, you want to be
a tough client, right?
Yes and I don't even want you
to tell me the problem yet.
I want you to rise.
I want you to
surprise Mo because I
was going to do the dance
with you and then I'll do it.
Oh, so oh, OK, OK,
he's going first.
Fine, ok?
He's one person.
The reason why I want to
do this is because he's
my Jedi in training.
But the other thing is, he
said, every time you do it,
it just seems natural
and it seems easy.
But when we see someone
else do it, it's like, oh,
now there's a good
and a better version.
Maybe OK, maybe Mo would be
the better version today.
Oh, you ready?
Yes, that setup was
funny, I'm going
to be the version that makes
Chris's version look better.
Yes, let's do it.
Maybe OK, I know some
of you guys have to run.
I'm going to have to
run in 20 minutes too.
So this will be recorded so
you can always listen back
in on this conversation.
OK, go ahead, Mo.
So I'm the vendor, correct?
Yeah, you're the
vendor and Sana.
Mo you just sell yourself.
I don't want it.
Just to be like role playing.
You have to imagine
different things.
Ok? is that ok?
Sana that's fine.
OK, so you want me to not
do a good job selling,
you want me to, like, boast
about myself and stuff?
Oh OK.
I want you to sell video
content creation because that's.
Oh, OK.
OK, Yeah.
Yeah, Yeah.
And then like, what
do you normally do?
What do you sell?
Um, right now I sell
consulting and brand strategy,
but I'm currently not personally
selling the brand strategy,
it happens through an agency.
OK so I'd be OK.
Yeah, I. OK, fine.
So it's a little bit different.
He's going to sell what
he knows how to sell.
OK because I don't want to
put him at a disadvantage
when I play with you.
I could sell you consulting
a brand strategy.
But is that OK, mo?
Or do you want to
sell the same thing?
Whatever is best
for the group, I'm
happy to do me or do what
she wants, so either way.
You picked Insana
here, so I know
that mode is video
content creation
and I know he does
tasty mobile videos.
So that's what I know about you.
Do you sell videos or
do you want him to sell
consulting and brand strategy?
Oh no, no, no.
I I, I'm the consultant.
I'm think that I could
definitely use more brand
strategy or videos, for sure.
Let's do brand strategy.
Let's just do that.
OK, and you're going to
play a client, right,
Sana and you're going
to be hard on him.
Yeah, Yeah.
Whether you want everybody
to pay very careful attention
because we're
going to test on it
because she needs to come
at me at the same way,
exact same way.
Same mentality.
OK, so here we go.
Go ahead.
Kimo, how are you?
What's up, family,
how are you doing?
I'm doing good, it's just
really cold outside today.
I don't know, but I wanted
to have a call with you
in a chat with you.
So know.
Thanks for taking my call.
I am really interested
in getting some help
right now because I think I
need to be more out there.
And I think I see a lot
of other consultants
doing exactly what
I'm doing, but I
think I could do it
better, and I just
want to know if you
can help me out,
possibly with showing
that the world like
I could do better than them.
I want to first take a second.
You thanked me.
I want to thank you
for reaching out to me
and considering me as a vendor.
Oh yeah, OK.
Yeah can I ask you
just really quickly,
how did you find out
about me, clubhouse?
That's the whole thing.
You know, now everybody's
like doing deals on clubhouse,
so I saw you modding.
I think what you're
talking about.
I just I'm wondering
if maybe you
could help me out or
something like on this call
and maybe I can
learned something new.
Maybe we can do videos.
I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a lot
to unpack here, and thank you
for staying up late with us
in these clubhouse rooms.
I'm on there with Christo
for honestly way too long
sometimes, but thank
you for being here.
You said a few things
that I'd love to just
dial in on, if possible.
Is that OK with you?
Sure Yeah.
So you said you want to be
more out there, consultants
out there doing
what you're doing
and now you're saying things
like help you out with video.
I just want to get
maybe to the root of it.
What's really causing
you stress right now
with what you're needing?
I mean, I think it's really
causing me stress right now.
I just I think the big thing
that I really want to be doing
is getting my name out
there, having more awareness.
I think it's called
brand awareness.
I'm not necessarily sure.
But yeah, that's kind of
stuff that I want right now.
I want more people
to know about me.
I want more traffic, you
know what I'm saying?
By the way, I have
to step outside.
We can keep talking.
Yeah, totally.
Whatever is most
comfortable for you.
So if I may, what are you doing
now to get your name out there?
If we lose you, your
connection is really bad,
I couldn't hear you that well.
Oh, that's OK.
That's OK.
Would it be better
for you for us
to have the call a different
time given the movie?
No, no, no, no.
I think this is a
really good time.
Yeah, I want to keep moving.
OK, cool.
Cool, cool.
Cool So you said
getting your name
out there, brand awareness.
More people to know about you.
Can you just tell
me a little bit
about what you're already doing?
I do consulting mostly I
sell sessions by the hour,
and then I also sell packages
where I basically talk one
on one and lead people through.
I guess I do, Brandon.
So hold on also something else.
I lead them through
their business strategy.
I like give them a
new business model
and help them
scale their system.
Beautiful, and I want
to get back to that,
I think I phrased the question
incorrectly the first time.
My my concern was what are
you doing to get your name out
there right now?
Right now, I'm currently running
a couple of different ads,
I just don't think
that there may
be working that
well right now, I
don't think that they're I'm
running three different ads.
I have somebody
who is technically
an intern doing that.
But I think that what I need to
do like they wanted to help me
out with this, but I
think I need some help
with actually making sure it.
It works really, really well.
Do you know what I'm
saying, and I'll be honest,
I don't know a lot
about marketing here,
so maybe you can tell me what
it is that I need to be doing.
Yeah, I'd love to take
a breath because I have
no idea what you should do.
I'm hearing what you are doing
right now, which is running ads
and you said they're not
working and you're running three
different ads with an
intern managing them,
but it doesn't sound like
you're happy with the results.
Am I right?
No, I think it could
definitely be better, you know?
OK what does better
look like for you?
it definitely looks
like it, you know?
A lot more people like you
want me to put a number down
on this one.
If we were to just
dream here, let's
say you run an ad that works,
what is it doing for you?
It's getting people
to see my services,
basically, it's getting them to
click and getting them to buy,
but I don't know, it's
getting traffic right now,
but I don't know if people
are actually buying.
So there's something
technically off
and I think it's just
because I need more.
I need to just be
more out there.
I just don't think like,
maybe I need more ads,
maybe I need better videos.
And the reason why I
think like, you know,
you might be somebody
who can help me
is because you do videos
really well or how that works.
I don't really
know how it works.
Totally, totally.
The thing that I
would hate to do,
though, is make you a
bang or video like we do.
And then it does the same
thing like these three ads
that are not working
and you hate me.
Would would not suck.
Yeah, so what is a banger?
Video exactly.
Yeah, let's take
a breath on that.
I think before we
even jump into any
of this, what would
be best for you
is for us to take a
deep dive on identifying
what would work best.
And that would probably look
like an extended session
just like this.
But for me to really
identify your needs
and what to create for those
needs versus just assuming
that it's video hearing
that how do you feel?
Uh, Yeah.
OK sure.
And that sounds fun.
When is that going to be?
I got a call timeout.
So Sonya, thank you
for cooking Mo on this.
And I just have a
quick question for you.
Are you being the unpredictable,
wild, tough client
that you want to play?
I was trying to be,
but I think that when
I tried to step outside
because this happened
to meet with a
client call one time
is that they stepped
outside and it was
almost impossible to hear them.
But they could hear
me completely fine.
And I got them booked later.
So it was just like
a tough situation.
So I just wanted to throw a
bunch of really weird things
that were happening
out there that I
have experienced on calls.
I see.
So you're really
method on this one.
How did Mo do so far?
I think it was good.
There was when he kept
saying, take a breath.
It almost made me feel
like I needed to sit down,
even though I'm keeping
a very high paced
because I've had a lot of
clients who just talk, talk,
talk.
So I wanted to keep that
high energy in there,
so I was surprised he
didn't match my energy.
But then at the same time, every
time he said take a breath.
But I almost wondered if
I wanted to say, like,
are you like my therapist?
I almost wanted to throw
that out the next time,
he said, don't respond.
Don't respond.
No, sorry.
I didn't realize I was on.
Thank you.
OK keep going.
Yeah, those were
typically the big things
that I notice in
terms of the tone.
He was very kind.
His and he was his
tonality was very slow,
so it made me naturally
want to slow down.
It's just that I think I wanted
to speed up the call so much
to see what I could technically
get because I'm so used
to moving calls and
it almost made me
feel like I might waste time.
OK, let's do this because
I only have 10 minutes left
and I want to get through this.
OK, now there's a
couple of things
because the analysis here
for Mo for doing this.
Excuse me.
OK the analysis for
Moe is that he's
trying to be your friend
so hard at the beginning,
and I thought it was
like a little forward.
Like, I know Mo likes to use
certain language like banger
videos.
What's up, fam.
Let's take a breath.
You know, you're using
all these expressions
that if you're a
different kind of person,
that would really throw you off.
I don't know.
You don't call me,
fam, I don't know.
You like that.
You're ingratiating
yourself on top of them.
It's just like, no
slow down, dude.
So Mo does it in a very
playful, warm tone,
but to a different
person, they're
going to see this
totally differently.
That might as well
be bro talked to Mo.
For some people, do you
know what I'm saying?
So look at Natalie nodding
her head right there,
so just be very
mindful, like I'm not
trying to be your friend.
I want to understand what
the heck you're doing.
And so three times most
likely, let's take a breath.
I thought he was getting
bossy with me if I was.
You take a breath.
Why am I taking a breath?
You're the one who
used the word banger.
Video and pardon me for asking
you what a banger video is.
I don't know what that
is, so think about that.
OK, I know with your young
friends, you're gill.
Let's take a breath, homies.
And that's how you speak.
But we're not with
your homies right now.
We're we're conducting
a professional business
conversation.
So let's be mindful of that.
Now If she's come in and
flavor flav, hip hop to you.
You use all those terms, then
that's how you guys connect.
I totally get that.
But she's not
coming in like that.
A couple of times there.
Another thing that
I noticed with you,
Mo, is the
conversations meandering
all over the universe.
Yeah like, what's up with you?
What's the weather like?
You know, it's like,
I don't want to know
what the weather's like.
What's it going to
do with anything?
So be careful that you don't
go on this like Spider web,
because what if she just
talked about the weather
for 10 minutes?
Yeah, you would
be totally hosed.
OK, I know this about Mo.
He's done a great job, but
he wants to be your friend.
He really wants you to like him.
And so sometimes he
gets caught up in that.
So here's what
we're going to do.
Sana, I'm going to
ask you to turn up
the sauna like five degrees.
I want you to be hotter
and heavier because I
have the advantage of listening
to you do this once already,
and I only have seven
or eight minutes here
before I have to bounce.
OK, so let's go through this.
So can you pick it
up from the top?
Yep, got it.
Go ahead, Chris.
Thanks for taking my call.
Yeah, I just have a lot
to talk to you about.
I think, you know, it
would be really great
if we could work together.
I think you can tell me
a lot about how I ought
to be doing certain things.
So yeah, I don't like I know you
do like brand strategy stuff.
And I've seen you on
Clubhouse and you're
teaching a lot of people.
So I know, you know,
your stuff, but I just
think that I don't feel like I
need a lot of help right now.
Wow hey, I am trying to process.
Sorry about that.
I'm like walking and
talking right now.
So sometimes that happens.
No need to apologize.
It sounds like you have
a lot going on right now.
Yeah, tons is happening.
Traveling, moving.
Everything's happening
at like right now
and my laptop is gone.
My dog's like, yeah, just a lot.
Are you ok?
Oh Yeah.
Yeah, everything's fine.
Ok?
all right.
OK, so how can I help you?
Yeah, so you are talking
about brand strategy,
I think, and I think I need some
of that, I'm not sure exactly.
It looks expensive,
but I don't know.
But the big thing right now
is I need to be more out there
and I need more people
to know about me.
And I just I don't technically
know how to do that right now.
I have a couple of
ads going, yeah,
and I just I wonder, maybe
like, you can tell me
how to do something
on this call,
like, maybe it could be
beneficial for both of us
in some way, you know?
OK, let me see if I can
recap what you just said.
My my pen is like, I'm
running out of ink,
just trying to keep
up with you here.
Oh man.
You said you need
brand strategies.
All right.
I think so.
Maybe you can tell me.
Yeah so I put a
question mark on that.
Then you said I'm
expensive, but we
haven't talked about money yet.
I know.
And I mean, are you clairvoyant?
How do you know?
You even talk about money?
Wait, I'm clairvoyant.
You seem clairvoyant.
We haven't talked about much.
OK, we're both like X-Men here.
That's cool.
So I'm expansive, but
we don't know that yet.
OK and you said
you need to know.
You need more people to
know about you, right?
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, more sales, more
clients, more projects
definitely need all of that.
OK, but I just want to also be
like a thought leader, like you
can't necessarily be a
consultant these days
without really actually
showing up and telling
people what you think.
And, you know,
speaking would be cool.
Like, these are things
that I'm thinking about.
I mean, it might as well.
You're like a big guy.
You know, I might tell you what
my dreams are on this call.
Hey, Santa, can I
ask you for a favor?
Sure what's up?
Just the pace in
which you're talking?
It's just it's
making me nervous.
And anxious, too.
I mean, know why.
So I don't know, because
there's so much energy going on.
My head's going to explode.
Can I just say, are you?
Is this always the way you talk?
I'm just curious.
No, no, no.
I don't know.
Maybe I'm not sure.
Some people do tell me that
I talk really fast sometimes,
but not all the time.
Definitely when?
No, I think maybe it's because
I'm also walking around,
I typically like to walk
around while I talk,
it helps me keep the energy up.
Yeah, I need to get
up and walk around.
I feel like I need a
match or energy right now.
Maybe then we can all
bounce off the walls here.
I don't know.
OK, I'm sitting down.
I'm sitting down.
OK Doing it for you.
I need to take a breath.
Hold on.
I just want to censor myself.
OK are you good?
Yeah, I think so, hold on.
OK I don't have a ton
of time to talk to you,
I need to figure
out what's going on.
Oh, can I get your
permission to?
Wasn't this a 30 minute call?
Yeah I got 30 minutes.
For sure.
OK so do you mind if I just take
the lead and dance on the dance
here so I can maybe help you?
You know, yeah, I've been
talking a lot, so sure.
Go ahead.
Well, OK.
So you need to get more sales
to get more clients because you
want to do more projects, right?
Yes Yeah.
In the universe of
like all possibilities,
what's the one thing you need
help with the most right now?
I don't know, how do you
get me more out there
when you consider that
marketing awareness,
you need a greater
awareness, right?
Sure, Yeah.
No yeah, yeah, I do I
definitely need more awareness,
because, yes, I mean, if we have
to focus on one thing, sure,
I think it's awareness.
OK, so more than what
you need more awareness.
So what's the baseline
you're working with?
Right now, I have about 9,000
subscribers on my YouTube
channel, which I post
weekly videos on,
and I also have 616,000
people on my LinkedIn,
but my network is
kind of dead too,
so it's not really like active.
Like what else could I say?
I'm on Instagram, but I have
like my intern doing it,
so I don't even know
if it's like the best.
How many followers do
you have on instagram?
I think I have it the last time.
14,000 OK, if we had to
pick one of these three
YouTube, LinkedIn
or Instagram to make
a dent in giving you more
sales and clients and projects?
Which one would you
like to focus in on?
But hold on.
So here's my question
to you, Chris,
because you are like, you
know how to do everything
like, why can't
we do everything?
Oh, we can.
It's just a matter
of time and money.
Would you like to do everything?
Yeah I mean, like if it was in,
if I could afford it, right?
I think, you know, I'm
like, first of all,
I'm thrilled to take
all of your money,
but it wouldn't be
responsible for me to do so.
Right I think it's smart to
take measured steps with a plan.
Do you agree?
Yeah I mean, I think
that's sensible.
Yeah OK, let me rephrase
the question then.
How about we rank these
in one, two and three?
YouTube, LinkedIn and Instagram.
OK maybe it would be really
great if we could do LinkedIn,
I have 16,000 contacts there.
I'd love to see if we could
get revived or something.
I don't know what it would take.
I post all the time on.
There is just not a lot of
not anything comes back.
No engagement.
Sure and then number two?
Is probably YouTube,
that would be a good one.
OK And then obviously,
Instagram would be number three.
OK I think I have a plan is
starting to hatch in my brain.
Oh, you got one?
OK well, not yet.
It's starting to.
And I think what we can do is do
a multi-platform strategy that
allows you to leverage
one piece of content.
So you can get the most
juice from that lemon,
if you know what I mean.
I like what I'm hearing.
That's good.
OK, we're off to a
better start, ok?
OK, I got to break
role play, guys.
I'm sorry.
It's 959.
I have another call.
And I just want to do
a quick reflection.
So Sana, how does
that feel so far?
It feels good, I
feel like you've
got me hooked a little bit.
I think you're going
like a little like one
question at a time, and I think
the thing is I'm approaching.
The thing is I'm approaching
you with a positive perception,
too.
So I'm trying to find
any negative perception
I can throw to see if I could
hear the call off a little bit.
Yeah, yeah, that's kind of
where I'm at high energy.
And usually when
I talk to people
and they're not role playing
with me, they'll stop.
They will totally stop.
And you kept going like
just like the Terminator.
And we appreciate you for that.
Like, you're not going to
give me an inch on anything,
but I can pretty much guarantee
you within 5 to 10 minutes,
we're going to be having
that conversation.
I'm going to be do the
closing call with you.
We're so close to it.
I'm kind of bummed I
have to leave right now.
And if you guys want to
continue on, please do so.
I just need to leave.
OK I would love for you guys
to analyze and mow and analyze.
Please take over for me.
OK, I have to bounce.
And just to break
down the differences
that you saw and I'm going
to continue recording, OK.
So I want to make
Emily the host now.
They can only host change
hosts and then I'm leaving.
OK, guys, continue on.
And then stop the
recording when you're done.
Thank you very much.
I will talk to you guys soon.
I think I might have to do a
quick follow up on this again,
so I might do a third
call this month.
Just stay tuned for that.
OK, bye, everyone.
Bye bye, Chris.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
My pleasure.
You crushed it as a client.
I just got to say that
sounded so real, it was wild.
Yeah, I was like, is it's not,
oh, you're playing yourself
or are you playing your
client because you're so good?
I was playing like an
amalgamation of my clients.
Yeah, I'd love to hear
from you for the group, how
you felt, what stood out,
what you maybe didn't like.
And then a comparison
to me and then him.
So what stood out to you
first that you did like?
Um, I mean, I didn't
necessarily not like you.
The thing is that I
think what balances
may be high energy sometimes
that I like a lot of people
too.
But at the same time, I think
if I was sitting down with you,
like at the computer, maybe
looking at face to face
and maybe you use like a
couple of different words
that I didn't know I
might feel excluded.
So that was kind of true
about what Chris had said.
The thing that was
weird for me with Chris
was when he was just like, let's
take a breath and control that.
And I was just like, man,
can you do that on the call?
Like, I wonder, like, I was just
like something wrong with him,
or that's kind of where I
was in the back of my head.
I was like, could I
do this on a call?
Could I just kind of take
somebody and be like,
let's take a deep breath?
But the fact that he said
he was having anxiety
made me feel bad for him,
so I just decided to stop.
Does that make sense?
Yeah Yeah.
What did anything
else that he did
stand out to you as a client?
Um, and he was I think
he was interested in what
I was saying, but he was
really also narrowing down
what it is that I was doing.
So I couldn't really
pinpoint a problem for him.
And so what he was
doing is he was taking
what's the big thing?
So it was brand awareness.
And he labeled it.
And even if my head was going
in a completely different
direction, he was like,
if you can pick one thing,
he wasn't making it
like a bad thing to do.
Look, if you had
to pick one thing.
So he narrowed it down and then
he knew what my issues were,
and he said, maybe we can
do a multi-level thing.
So it hooked me.
You know what I'm saying?
So there was a way
where he kind of
came like, maybe we can do this,
and that seemed interesting,
but then we'd have to have
the talk on what that was,
what that idea looked like.
So, Yeah.
Yeah, Emily.
Yeah, I just wanted to
say like I. I don't know,
because I don't know
if it's because I'm
so often in the client
situation, but I'm like,
I really don't like
when people like,
let's take three deep
breaths or breathe.
I'm like, what?
No, no way.
Like, like you said, it felt
also like I would be like,
what?
You know, I don't like
when people talk to me.
To me like that, it's like.
And when Sarah also, right?
Like, we take three
deep breaths together.
I'm like, no way,
you know, you're
going to sell something to me.
I'm not going therapy.
So I don't know how I felt, too.
Are you like, too kind?
Because I'm not that
kind, as you know,
when people sell to me?
Yeah, I think no.
Oh, sorry, go ahead.
Oh, sorry, Mo.
I was just going to say no.
If the thing.
The only reason why I did that.
I still had a positive
perception of Chris,
and I think that he
could actually help me.
So I don't know if it would
turn the other way around
if, like, I was an
unknown and he just
saw me on Behance or something.
Yeah, he definitely
did it with more poise,
so I appreciate you
calling me out on it
because it is something that I
usually do with take a breath.
But now hearing that
reflection from you
and anally, I think
the takeaway is
if you feel like the engagement,
if you want to be like Chris
and slow it down, the way to
do it is not to tell the client
like, Yo, you're
being too much and me
saying take a deep
breath definitely
came across that way.
So my learning or my thing
that I have to get better on
is like, how do I slow it
down without blaming them
that they're being too fast
and it could sound something
like it could?
I could take full
responsibility.
Like, I promise you, I'm not.
I'm not that smart sometimes,
and there's a lot happening.
And if it's OK for
me to just ask one
question at a time
with your permission.
So making it about,
which I think
he did really well when
he was like, I'm anxious.
I feel like something is wrong.
I need to take a breath.
But it still came across like,
Yo, you're being too much.
But I think taking it upon
ourselves was a big takeaway
from what I heard.
Did I think we lost son or
so anyone else in the group
hear or see something that
stood out to them that you'd
want to apply in your
own sales interactions
that Chris did well?
I can.
Yeah, I would say for
me, it feels like I
one thing I have to make sure is
I stay in my calm space like I.
I should deliberately lock
myself in a very calm space,
lock my mind in that calm space
and never leave it regardless
of how the client is
behaving, what energy they
are bringing in.
And no matter what
they are saying, like,
I have been practicing
these things,
but it's not like when
I started talking.
In such a speed, and she started
giving out so much information,
while I am sometimes comfortable
with these clients where
I ask them to repeat, but
it also makes me anxious,
like because she
talked like that,
my heart started racing even
when I wasn't doing anything.
And I also knew
the ultimate result
that know Chris will
be able to handle this,
even after knowing that
my heart started racing.
And this happens to me even
while watching reality TV
shows, so I don't watch them.
But that is what my takeaway is.
I don't know how to get there.
Maybe practicing in rural place
or something of that kind,
maybe meditating, but I
definitely need to work on it.
Can I jump on that
for my if that's OK?
Excuse me, excuse me, my.
We have people in line here.
Sorry, but you need to raise
your hand and arm ladies first.
All right, amazing.
Thank you.
So just I just want to
second what Moore said about.
So Chris made it upon
himself that right.
I feel anxious.
I want to take a
breath so he'd like.
She can feel free
to keep talking,
but I really feel
vulnerable right now.
Please give me a permission to
just take a breath upon myself.
It's similar to what Mo said.
I'm not feeling very smart
today or something like that.
Instead of like, can you
elaborate it in a better way?
It's not very clear
saying like, ok?
I'm confused.
Maybe I woke up on the
wrong side of the bed today.
Just help me understand
things further
apology for not getting it
for the first time, something
like that.
It's very humbling.
And it makes the powerful
client that we all
know that want to
dominate the conversation,
feel more in control and
give themselves away.
Yeah Emily, do you think can
we do a little experiment here?
Maya said something
super powerful,
like how to calm
myself down when
their energy is making
me anxious just by like,
raise your hand.
If you felt if you feel
that way during the client
call, like when that happened,
you say, well, what did he say?
Oh, sorry, did I cut out?
No, no.
I just didn't understand.
Oh, like, raise
your digital hand
if you resonate with what
mahi said, because I think
that's a question we need to
pass to Chris in the next sales
call.
Do you get anxious?
I didn't hear much mahi mahi.
I said, oh, mahi, sorry.
Yeah, mahi.
Yeah, OK.
So, OK, so there's a lot
of hands already coming up.
So is the Annalee.
How do you deal with that?
Because I know you.
You match people's
emotions really well.
When you feel like their
energy is coming in
Super hot, you
know, high energy,
and maybe you need to process
the information better.
How have you handled
those situations,
maybe to help us out?
I think I do a little
bit more like Chris.
Like to be honest, I
don't like to, you know,
when you say like,
yeah, you can always
say that I didn't sleep
well or, you know,
something is wrong with me.
I kind of don't
like that for myself
because I feel like I'm making
up excuses for like, excuse me,
for existing.
And for me, it's a
little bit like, I
don't want to have that
relation with my client.
I want them to respect
me and to listen.
I like when Chris is
more like, you know,
oh, I think this is getting
a little bit too fast for me.
You know, I need
to process this.
I need to take notes,
you know, can we
just slow down a little bit?
That is more for me, showing
respect for each other.
So I prefer that instead
of like, oh, you know,
I'm so stupid.
Yeah well, I would
like to add something
to this of what I said,
I think I become anxious
because when someone gives
out a lot of information
or is very fast while
speaking, I also kind of feel
that they are very aggressive
and and my mind immediately
goes to thinking that they are.
The next thing they
are going to do
is Judge me, ask me for
justification for the prices,
judge me by my qualification,
by my experience
or my past clients.
And I feel like I don't know
what they're going to ask.
So I start thinking
about those things
subconsciously, unknowingly,
and I'm not able to focus on,
you know, actually
handling the sales call.
Emily?
what I just wrote in the chat,
did I did she ask my question,
I'm sorry.
I think she was
reflecting on how
she feels when that
happens, and she kind of
took it to an
extreme and I relate
to this where they she
said they feel aggressive
and she then feels like she
has to justify what she's doing
and her prices and all
these kind of things.
So I guess my could you,
if you have a question,
then we can go to
Michael because I
know her hand is raised.
Do you have a
question for anyone
around that or is that
something you just
want to see in a role play?
No, the question is just that
how do stay in the moment
and not get very anxious?
Oh, I think I don't
know, sometimes it's
difficult to explain
things, I just
don't get anxious in
conversations like that.
I don't know how I do it.
I just think it's about like.
If you're president and
if you're really there
to listen to someone and
you know what you're doing
and you just want to help them.
Their emotions don't
affect me so much.
I get more affected it of like
being around people like this
in Zoom.
But one on one in
a conversation,
it's much, much easier
to just be to not be
so emotional affected for me.
I don't know how I do it.
Maybe I need to find
out how to explain that.
I just don't.
And you know me, my
how emotional I am.
But it's something around that
one-to-one conversation that
never gets me feeling anxiety.
Yeah personally, I have observed
that I have come a long way
with the kind of
client I work with
and the changes that comes
along with us when we start
working with better clients.
It has changed a lot, but
sometimes they are not even
judging and they may
not even judge, but just
doesn't always happen.
But I may go to that place.
So I dread like how what if
the client speaks like that?
And what if I go to that place.
And I'm not able to
handle the call so?
Oh, and can I add something
here really fast and then
I think we can move on?
I don't know mahi if maybe
we're very similar here,
but I'm a recovering people
pleaser and like Chris said,
I want them to be my
friend in the call,
so I immediately give
them a lot of power
before the call even starts.
And I'm hearing a lot of
that same mindset from you
where it's like, I want
to do right by them.
I want to make sure that
I don't say something
that hurts their feelings.
I think someone said
that in the chat,
and what I'm learning in
real time from Chris is like.
You are nothing and everything.
They are nothing in everything.
They have no more
power than you.
You have no more
power than them.
So and that's why
he's able to be
so empathetic and vulnerable,
because that's why he says air,
right?
He doesn't think if he
says something, quote
unquote stupid, that
he's stupid or he
doesn't think that if he says
something vulnerable, that he's
weak.
So when he was like, I'm
feeling anxious, son was like,
oh, he's feeling anxious,
let me slow down.
And I think one way
that you can combat this
and I'm trying to
do this in real time
as well is just say exactly what
you're thinking in the moment
and label it so.
And I and I wrote it
better from Annalee
because I think annalise, right,
we shouldn't self deprecate.
But she said, directly
ask for them to slow down.
And I wrote, I don't
know if this is a script,
but like, I want to make
sure that I deeply understand
and process what's needed.
With your permission, would it
be OK for us to slow down a bit
so I can do a better
job in serving you?
Much, much better like that.
So it's like analysts
said, there's not respect,
we're peers, we are.
You are not here.
And I am here.
And there's also
just vulnerability
like, I can't process this fast.
Can you help me help you?
And I think labeling
that out loud
and going into it,
not there above you.
And I don't know if that's
a Brown Middle Eastern
thing because our
culture is like, you
know, respect authority older.
I know that feeling
and maybe we just
have to dilute that a
little bit going into it.
And we are the opposite.
We saw it in Scandinavia.
We can't stand it much.
You and I, we're practicing
girls play together, right?
Different different sides
of the different sides
of the globe, right?
OK I think my was
next with a question.
I just want to talk to you
about what Maggie is talking.
So I think the reverse, the
first thing to calm you down,
to reverse empathy, that's
what because it's not
empathy towards how
the client is feeling,
but trying to phrase it like
they just did right now.
Really nice that
you create empathy
from the client to
you to slow down,
to let you understand better.
So that will calm you down.
And then I don't speak this
from experience right now.
But what I've
learned, which calls
with Chris in the
clubhouse right now,
I think what's
causing you anxiety?
It's because you
need to position
just what I've learned.
Position yourself that you are.
They're calling you
for help, right?
So we want this thing to put
all your chips on the table
all in because the client
call you and you need to get
that client no matter what.
So they are everything.
And it's just like a father
and you're just so scared
and you answer all
your questions like,
that feeling that position,
that mindset needs to go away
and your mindset
needs to do that.
You are a professional,
you have your expertise.
You know what you're doing.
You just.
So once you come into the
call and keep yourself
in the call with that
mindset, maybe that
will reduce the
anxiety about trying
to answer all right questions in
and have because sometimes you
don't have it.
And you know what I'm saying,
I think I'm, you know,
like just your mindset.
Like, always
remember the client.
You can have another
client next time.
He's not the best
thing, the only client.
So I think that mindset
of it's OK if I lose you,
I think it's everyone.
So we can detach.
I think you're right.
And I also think it's
so important to always
be authentic and real and
true and not pretending
because the reason why I can
do it with self confidence
is because I know what I'm
talking about, you know,
I know what I sell.
That's why I'm self-confident
and I can like,
you know, I don't feel anxiety.
If you're just starting
out selling something,
you will feel that
anxiety because you really
don't know if you know enough.
And I think that is so important
to not pretend that you know,
something that
you're not knowing,
if you know what I mean, because
every time you're being real
and like you can, you
can say, you know,
I'm learning this right now
or you don't have to like,
so don't pretend to know
a lot that you don't.
I think that is when we get
feeling too much anxiety,
like when someone talk to mode
and they talked about brand
strategy and then they talked
about video and I'm like, well,
you know, I don't get it.
Like, what are they
talking about in that case?
I wonder to know.
I don't know what you
think, but like, you
think it would be better if
you like Claire to clarify it
a little bit like, what did
you actually offer and not?
Or how do you feel about that?
Because I was like,
you know, I don't
know if she knows what
she's talking about,
but I don't know if he's known.
He knows what he's
talking about.
So they're like two
people here don't know
what they're talking about.
Yeah, I think the
role play direction
got a little confusing
because at the beginning
we said, does Mo
offer brand strategy
or his actual services?
And we decided that I
would offer brand strategy
in the role play.
But sunna also spoke on how
she knows me, which is video.
So things got a
little confusing.
And I think that's
why at the end
I was like, I actually
have no idea what
it is you need from me.
Maybe we need a
deeper dive on this,
but I think that was all
just because the role
play was set in a
direction that wasn't clear
what I was offering.
So that's a good point.
Yeah, Yeah.
How do you feel about that?
Like being honest about, you
know, how much you can offer
or what level you're at?
Oh, I'm all
connected to excited.
I can speak for myself.
I had AI had a sales call,
not a few months back,
and I texted Chris in a panic.
And I was like, how
should I respond to?
It was a big fish.
And he was like, just
respond, honestly.
And the guy was like,
how big is your team?
And he was like, say exactly
how big your team is.
He was like, what do you do?
Like, say exactly what you do.
So I had the pressure of
showing or coming across more
than I am on the call, which
unfortunately sometimes
will force you to bite
off more than you can chew
and you're actually shooting
yourself in the foot.
So I 100% agree
with you on anxiety
aside from not knowing
and the unknown.
It's also this pressure to,
like, be something you're not.
And if they say something
that they want to know
and you don't know how to
answer, I've just leaned into.
I don't necessarily know how
to answer that right now,
but we can make sure
to figure that out
within the scope of the project.
If that's where you
want to take it,
and I think that's humbling
and I may not win the business,
but I rather I'd rather
not win the business under
the assumption that I can
do something that I can't.
Yeah, I do think having that.
If you if you have that mindset
and you decide about that,
I think it will feel a lot
more calmer and self more
self-confident.
If you go in with that
mindset, because then you
don't have to pretend
you just and being real.
And I think that's
important because if I talk
to you tomorrow and I want your
help with videos like I don't
know anything like, you know,
like I asked you like, what's
the difference between real?
Some Insta stories, you
know, I don't know anything.
I can ask super
stupid questions.
And it's totally OK.
But then if you want my
help with brand strategy,
everything, then I,
you know, so it's
like it depends on
what we buy and sell.
And I just think it's very, you
know, it's good, to be honest.
And also, by the way, when
you're an experienced client,
you hear right away.
I know after a few
seconds, if someone
is, you know, if they know what
they're talking about or not.
So you can't fly anyway.
This is an excellent
point, and I
want to just highlight something
son has said that is directly
tied to what you
said and then we
can move on to hearken
and then Rachel, she said.
I came in with a positive
impression of Chris
already because of how
he's positioned himself
on Clubhouse.
And I think that speaks
to what you're saying.
And Ali, there's a lot
of power in our ability
to position ourselves
clearly before the call.
So when they get on
the call, there's
already a set
expectation in their mind
of what we're going
to be talking about.
So of course, when
you DME is like Mo,
I need to get better at reals.
That's because I've positioned
myself as the video person
or when I call you
annalee, I'm like, I
need help from a strategic
consulting standpoint
because you've positioned
yourself that way.
So to make a long story short,
if the sales conversations feel
like they're going all over
the place, that is probably
a testament to weak
positioning on your part.
And it's making the
conversation more difficult.
And this is something
that I think all of us
can grow into and
really dial in that.
So when we get on the sales
call, someone like Sana
could already have a positive
impression on what we do,
and it makes the
resistance easier or less
than what it could be if
we're just all over the place.
So I love that you
mentioned that, Annalee.
I think it's tied to the
tar positioning, too.
OK, so haakon and then Rachel.
Yeah well, I believe it's OK.
I have a question for
you in regards to one
of the same objections.
I know it's a bit off topic
of the emotional communication
that you had on this topic.
It's kind of a new topic,
but you said something
about as a client, you
often has responded
on what's your budget with?
Why do you want
to know my budget?
Could you expand a little
bit on your perspective
from a client
perspective on that
and how a good
response as a creative
could be to not be
accusatory back at you
and respond in like a
calm, professional manner?
I would like to hear
something that is.
Yeah, I can talk about that.
You know, I often have people
say this to me and, you know,
I prefer anchor price,
but maybe that's just me
because when people ask me a
lot of questions and then they,
you know, and I ask them
because I often ask them,
how much would this cost?
How much will this
cost is actually really
a sign of, I'm interested
if I'm not interested, I
never ask about the price.
So that's kind of invitation.
Right?
so then you have
the opportunity,
and I can just speak from my
own experience as a client,
not for anyone else,
but then I want.
Then I could have the
anchor price back.
That could be really
high if you want to.
But when people respond back
to me instead of saying that,
they respond like they start to
ask me about how much my budget
is, then I feel like, OK, this
person is just want, you know,
they don't.
They don't think, I
know what I'm doing.
They want as much
money as possible.
And I'm like, oh, you, you
went to school with Chris.
You know, it's like
you want to increase
sales school like I know right
away, especially in real.
Like, I had hired
creatives several times
since I started the pro group.
And when people
do that, I'm like,
oh, they also say often I
just do value based pricing.
I'm like, yeah, sure, not
with me anyway, you know,
so I'm like, mean, tired.
I am the mean client.
But so I would prefer
the anchored price
and like a range price range.
So I know because then I know,
like the top, you know, price,
what can I expect included
in that or the lower?
Because even if I say
like, oh, I don't even I'm
not even close to that budget,
then you have to decide,
is this the right
fit as a client?
Do you want to lower
your price or do
you want to recommend
me to someone else?
But it's better to take
that conversation early
on instead of like one two
hour, you know, into it.
I don't want to spend so
much time with someone.
If I don't know, we're a good
fit when it comes to price.
Could I follow up there with?
Is it's OK to ask, what's
the budget question.
If you've been doing the
scope first and then you
as a creative, take
the initiative to.
So this sounds
really great only,
and I think this work will be
interesting to do with you.
But yeah, what's
your budget like?
You ask the question first.
It's different than if you get
the question what's the budget,
if you know what I mean?
Yeah, but I just feel
like I don't know why.
And like, maybe I
don't understand that.
But Mo, maybe you don't
remember how you teach how,
how Kris teach that or
Blair or whoever teach that.
Why do you even want to ask
about the budget instead
of Ankara price?
You know that I know what
Chris has told me directly one
on one, and it's changed
my perspective a lot,
and how could maybe
it'll help you?
He said.
Mo, you're not a good
read of people's pockets.
So when I go into
the conversation,
I need to be I need to what
this client is potentially
willing to pay.
Are they a client that's
willing to pay big money?
Are they not?
So he said if as you
heighten that sense,
that Spidey sense, if the client
doesn't have a big budget,
talk about money first.
If the client does have a big
budget, dedicate a lot of time
to identifying the problem in
the scope, then go into budget.
So if I sense that the client
doesn't have big pockets
or I'm getting a better
read, my first question
is this sounds amazing.
Before we get too excited
on this call, which
I'm prone to do because I want
to be friend to all my clients
immediately, I need to
know what kind of money
are you willing to spend on
something like this for what
you're trying to solve?
But if it's a big
client like Anneliese
dealing with because Anneliese
dealing with Fortune 500
people.
So when she gets
to that question,
it's probably after
a lot of strategy.
So if you can sense that
this is a big client,
you're doing all of
this diagnosing first
and then you're
saying, well, this
sounds like a big problem
that needs to be solved.
I'm thinking a range of x
to y when you hear that, how
does that sound for you?
Are we on target?
Are we not?
What do you, annalee, does
that answer the question?
Yeah, and I do
think I remember now
that I heard Chris say
that I actually totally
forgot about it,
but it is a point,
I can give him
that it's a point,
but it's good if
you can do it first,
because it's the problem
is when I'm as a client,
ask you how much it
costs, because then it's
like already too late.
That is weird when you
ask me that question,
but if you do it first, like
Mossad is actually really good
because maybe I
say, like, you know,
if you ask me about a photo
shoot and I say, like, yeah,
you know, I'm
thinking about like,
maybe two days, you know, I
think the budget is about 40k
and you will be like, oh, shoot,
Oh my god, I would probably
just ask for 20.
That is really good, that's
why Chris is doing it,
because I know maybe
my budget is higher
than you were, you know,
suggested, but you need to.
You can't.
You can't wait until the
client ask you how much.
That's when it gets
weird, I think.
The only can I jump in
here to follow up on that?
So you mean that if you ask
that question quite early,
what's your budget?
It's more natural than
after, the whole scope,
you know everything and you
know exactly how much it's
actually cost you just
trying to fish out
if they have more money than
what you actually would take,
that's what your point is.
Personally, if I don't, if
I have a smaller client,
I wouldn't talk even
more than 10 minutes
before I mentioned the price.
I don't want to
put it, I never do
discovery call like 30 minutes.
I don't put in so much time.
If I don't know that there
can afford it, it's like,
then I can send them
to someone else.
Then you also have the
sound cost in this,
so as much more time you're
using, as more time you're
using with the client
and you're getting
invested, you also
getting invested
in not losing the engagement.
That's what they have with
the sound cost, right?
So if you're spending half
an hour with the client
and you don't know
yet what the budget is
at the end of the pole and
you get to that question,
you already invested half
an hour and just take 5,000.
That's because I only spent
half an hour on this anyway.
Yeah, I don't know.
I just I just have that rule.
Like, it's like
most small client.
I tell the price upfront.
I can just say what I start at.
You know, sometimes it's enough.
If I start that, I
never I always start.
Like my starting point
is like from 15k or 20k.
Then people will like,
fall off their share.
And if they say no, then I
know that it's not a good fit.
Maybe they expect they
expected 5K for brand strategy
and then I send them to someone
else, and I'm happy to do that.
And I would never
convince them otherwise
because they don't even want
my help or need my help.
Or can afford your help.
No, but I mean, I
think it's fair to both
in the conversation.
So I think it's good.
If you I can
understand why you like
Chris is saying that because
it's a really good advice,
but you need to do it kind
of like Mo did that example.
That's the way you do it.
And then it sounds
perfectly natural,
and I can actually give
you a bigger budget,
probably than you would
even consider asking for.
But this is if you
go for a bigger fish
like a bigger client, because if
you go for a really small one,
I don't know, they would
probably, you know,
don't say high enough.
Don't make the
mistake I did where
I had a big client on
the phone and because I
asked for the budget too early,
it came across disrespectful.
Like, that's why he says small
client, get to the money,
big client analyze,
because like Anna Lee said,
these big clients will
read you a mile away.
If you are not a person
who can really effectively
understand their problem
before quoting it,
because the quote is
justified by the problem
versus a small client that just
needs something to get done.
So now I'm trying to
get better at gauging
the pocket of the client
before I get them on the phone.
And this is a clubhouse
call that me and Chris are
can do because he was
like, do you really
think this is a problem
for many people?
I was like, I know this is
a problem for many people.
Because I because sometimes me
and Lance know this very well.
People on Instagram will hit
us up with a verified badge,
a few 100,000 followers
and old US will be like,
oh, this person got money.
No, that person has influence.
That doesn't
necessarily mean they
have money, which translates
to we have a bad read of what
big money looks like,
so we need to get better
at reading that is
seasoned and has, you know,
CMO and CEO and
Fortune 500 experience.
So she knows how they talk,
how they come in the meeting,
how they ask for things.
So she's like, OK, this person
has x amount of dollars.
Let me spend a
little bit more time.
But if they come in
rushed or whatever
makes a small client,
which will find out
from Chris on that
clubhouse call,
then you do the Save yourself
the sunk loss bias situation
and say, I'm super excited.
This sounds amazing.
But before we get ahead
of ourselves, what were
you hoping to spend on this?
And now there's a different
dialogue, because they're like,
Oh.
And then they'll
probably say, like I
was thinking to spend $1000, and
I've heard Chris say this like.
Over were definitely
were definitely
on two different pages, I
can't do it for that amount.
I know there's
somebody that can.
It just can't be me.
And also question,
yeah, sure about that.
I I'm wondering if you or
anybody or anybody else,
you if I was a high paying
client, a midplane client
or a low paying
client, I just don't
know if you could get
that off of the bat
because I was also on the fly.
But I'm just wondering if
you saw behaviors and such
that would tell you
if it was low or high
or in the middle to
me, a client to me,
like how I would define you.
Hello yes, yes, Hello.
Yes, OK.
Because is that
correct, something you
didn't know what you want.
Or you knew what
you wanted, but you
didn't know what you
asked for because you
used words and things that was
not connected to each other.
And I knew right away
that you didn't know how
to increase brand awareness.
I hear where you're coming from.
And I think that based on how
we plan our sales strategies
and who we target, I think
that would make a lot of sense.
The thing is, though, as
I was doing role play,
I was trying to figure out a
number that would be happy,
like it would make
sense to Chris,
but also like I didn't want to
pay too much at the same time.
So I was thinking about
ways that possibly I
was making money or
wanting to fund it
outside of the actual business
that I was coming from.
Do you know what I'm saying?
So like, oh, really?
Mo, do you understand
what I'm saying, perhaps?
You may be, but maybe you
can clarify a little bit,
I understood like you
don't want to pay a lot,
but you also want to pay.
What's fair that is that right?
Yeah, so I was trying to have
that fair conversation when
it got to actually
budget, I wanted
to kind of like go into it a
little bit, but yeah, I was.
The way that I feel
like I was acting.
And being was much
more of like showcasing
what maybe a possibly low
paying client would be.
But I didn't want that to
be necessarily the case
because maybe there might
be money somewhere else,
and I just felt like I'd
act this way or be this way.
Some people, I've had
some certain clients who
just feel like they
have enough f-you money
to just like, you know,
pay for services and such.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Do you know what that is?
And only a few money?
Yeah, I know.
OK OK.
I just like if I had that
conversation with you, I would,
probably because I think
you made assumptions
about the solution.
You had to go what
you wanted to do.
But you also had your own
solution on how to get there.
And I didn't agree
with that solution,
so I would probably
have questioned that.
In that call.
a nice way, but I
was like, you know,
you talked about advertising.
You want to be a thought leader.
You talked about brand strategy
and to increase brand awareness
and then you started to
talk about advertising.
And for me, that is not
the way you need to do it.
And I would probably
had, you know,
I would probably had talked
to you about that first.
Like, why do you think it's
important to do advertising
to reach brand awareness
and see what I brought?
Yeah, sorry.
La I said.
But first, you have brought
a budget to me in the way
that you would
have done it right?
No, I don't think so.
I because you didn't talk for
him for so long, I wouldn't.
I needed to understand
the problem first,
because even talking
about budget,
because you were like
throwing in brand strategy
and advertising and a
lot of different things,
I could never say a price if I
didn't understand the problem.
OK, I got it.
All right, first of all,
I understand the problem.
So it's not that
even if I say like,
yeah, I often
mention price early,
but I never mentioned
price before.
I know the problem.
So it depends how fast I
can define the problem.
It could take 10 minutes, but
could also take half an hour
and then it's my, you know, it's
my problem and waste of time
because I wasn't sharp
enough that day or something.
I think that's something
mindful, something
to be mindful of,
and I yeah, I think
the way you're shaping
it and thinking about it,
it is when I am more
sharper, it seems
like I feel a little bit
more intuitive about what
the actual issue is and I
can start naming it versus
if I'm a little tired.
And yeah, I think that's right.
Thank you.
I think your role play was
amazing because so good.
I think all of you are like now.
It's like all the time,
like, Oh my god, she's
such a good actor.
Like, if you're really playing a
client or is she being herself?
I think you're so great.
Yeah, thank you.
I won the first
place Shakespeare
competition in high school, so
I think that goes for something.
I haven't done it
since then, though.
No, I always like to
find the problem first.
When you don't know the
problem, you can't actually
say any price at all.
I got to go, you
guys, but I appreciate
listening to you guys and
really picking it apart.
This is really help.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, thank you.
Real, real quick, I
think maybe this will
help some people in the room.
I think I've shared
this story before,
but how come is asking
something that I
think the story will help?
Chris was telling me about a
time when Sony called him up
and they were like,
Yo, we're trying
to do this video game ad.
It's going to trailer.
It's going to.
It needs to be amazing.
We're thinking this,
we're thinking this.
And of course, he mirrors
and matches so well
and he's like, Oh my god,
that sounds incredible.
Yeah, we could definitely
do this kind of CGI.
We could do this
kind of animation.
I'm thinking probably
between depending
on how we're going to do it 250
to three, 5,3500,000 is that.
Is that what you're
already thinking?
And they were like, Oh
no, we were thinking like,
like 45,000.
And that's when he switched
up, and he was like,
oh, OK, OK, you painted me a
different picture than what
I was thinking for that
scope, let's talk about what
we can do best for that budget.
And I think that
does take a level of.
Experience and
seasoning and knowing
what a 250,000 commercial looks
like versus a 45,000 commercial
and how you come
in with your energy
because they came in hot like
ready to make this explosive ad
and he was he came in hot
with them two was like,
yes, let's go.
What do we think?
And we have like 350
for this and they're
like, no, we're
thinking, it's like,
OK, let's talk
about what the best
45,000 trailer would
look like for this game.
And I think that to me, was a
game changer when I heard it.
Yeah, I love that
because I think
that is a situation
where I am so often.
Like when?
People at a prospect
prospect like
paint a picture of what they
want with my experience is
like, OK, we're talking
about maybe around,
you know, at least 500k here.
And then I ask them like,
well, you know, what are you,
what are you thinking
about budget?
Because I need to know because
I know that this much, you
know, and they're like, no,
you know, we just have like.
40k I'm like, OK, but OK, that
is not this is not realistic,
you know, and you can be
I mean, I can be honest
because if you have the
experience of doing things
in different price range,
you can just refer to that.
And you know, but
you don't have to be
like, you don't have to have
an arrogant like attitude.
You can just be
really kind but honest
and say, like, OK, but you
know, maybe I could help you,
but then we need to go
back on your budget level
and talk about
what can I actually
do for you on this level?
Because I know I can
give you something that
really will give you effect.
You know, but we need to start
all over again because this
is another budget
level, you know,
just have that because
you guide them.
You almost teach
them a little bit,
but you do it in a really,
you know, nice way.
It's not that you
need to be polite.
You're just you're just sharing
your experience with them.
And that's probably why they
call you from the beginning.
Anybody that hasn't
spoken well, I
think we can analyze it, OK,
if we wrap in like 10 15.
OK, perfect.
Does anyone have a
question, a thought?
By the way, this shit is
way harder in real life
than it is when we
theorize about it.
So don't feel bad if you hear it
and it makes sense, especially
on these clubhouse calls
and you're like, I got it.
And then you go
into the sales call
and it just doesn't go
the way you thought.
So, but that
constant practice is
what's going to get you to
that Christo and Ali level.
I think it's the opposite.
That's why I don't
do a role play
because I think it's kind
of easy in real world
because then really just
like, I don't have to pretend
I don't have to show off.
Or it feels like performance
like in real life.
And I'm an empath.
So I feel people's emotion
and it's the real emotions
because it's a real
situation and I can read them
and, you know, just
have a conversation.
I relax as soon as
this front of people.
I think it's more performance
and people are acting,
and I can't read people's
energy when they're acting.
It's like fake.
so I feel anxious
in this situation
because it doesn't
feel natural for me.
So for me, it's
actually the opposite.
So I'm I think I need
to practice with you.
I need to find a
way because I want
to share because I know
I have things to share
and I like doing sales.
It's just that I don't feel
comfortable in this like role
play in front of people
saying, I don't know why.
Yeah, I think when Chris does
role play and then Richie,
you're up, dude.
He makes like to me that I
think that's exactly how he does
a sales call because he does.
He's not worried
about the audience,
but I know how
difficult that can
be because the
first few role plays
and I think the reason why
I can stay in the pocket
with him is like son,
I've had theater training,
so I'm not worried about
the audience necessarily.
But he wants you to
stay in the pocket
based on what you want
the outcome to be.
And I think the role play that
did really well on YouTube
was because D'Arrigo
came in and said,
no, Chris, you
have to close this.
And he made
parameters around it.
But I think he does show us
techniques that would help us
if we didn't know any better.
But yeah, I mean, you
need to practice together
because I'm trying to
talk to these CBOs too.
What's up?
You know, I'm trying
to talk to these CEOs
close to that have 500,000.
OK, Richie, you're up now.
Yeah hey, I don't know if
I have exactly a question,
but more so just
vibing off everything
that's kind of been shared.
I have a lot of clients
that will kind of come to me
and downplay the
service of video.
They'll be like, Oh yeah,
I just have a production,
you know, we're kind
of already planning it.
We have the models.
We just need you to
show up and shoot.
And I'm like, OK, cool.
I try to get a little bit
more detail of what they want,
and then I might quote them
my standard price, which
like the lowest engagement I'll
try to do is start like at 5
and they'll be like,
oh, it's, you know,
we just have 1,000 or 1,500.
And I always kind of just
struggle getting them
to the point like where
this is like my minimum,
that I do a project
and they're just like,
well, it's just too expensive.
Like, I don't think my
guys will go for it.
And at this point, I through the
sales training and everything
that I've learned at that
point, I'm just like, OK, well,
I think we're just not the
right client for each other.
But I feel like
that happens so much
or I just get
people that downplay
and maybe they don't know
what it takes to actually put
on a well-produced
video that might
convert for them and stuff.
But I'm learning that just
asking the right questions when
they do come to me at like, you
know, oh, we only have $1000,
I need to dig more
to let them know what
their actual problem is because
they're just coming to me
that they want a video.
They don't know what.
I don't know their problem.
They're just like, we just
have a shoot going on already.
Like, let's say
it's a photo shoot
and we just want to add video
and I feel like I always
kind of get stuck there.
So kind of just a thought
that I wanted to add,
and I don't know if anybody
else kind of gets that.
I think you should
frame it in a question,
because I think
this is something
that probably other people
feel, even if they're
a designer like,
oh, don't worry,
it's not a branding
thing, it's a logo.
It's something right.
Like maybe phrasing a question.
How do you deal
with the objection
when let's say you're selling
a logo and they're like,
well, it's just a simple logo
shouldn't take you very long,
right?
We only have 500 bucks.
The last person did it for 500.
Can you do for 500.
That's probably still a
terrible Emily, how you.
Ok?
didn't we talk about
your video first,
but you change it to logo,
but it could be whatever.
Sorry yeah, it could be.
It could be video or logo.
I guess the question is, how
do you deal with an objection
when it comes to you
with a low budget?
I think I get it.
But first of all,
I would like to say
that we talked about
before, like before even
people reach out to you.
And this is what Chris
and Mo talked about before
with positioning.
When when I looked at,
I look at your website,
when I look at your case
studies, what kind of clients
you work with or if I
hear you on Clubhouse
or wherever I find you.
Don't want that kind of
clients to reach out to you.
And so you need to look at
the price you want to charge.
I think that is the
first step, you know,
to like, position
yourself in a way
that you even don't need to have
that conversation because I'm
wondering like, why
do I never get that?
I never have clients reaching
out to me asking that.
And I just wonder, like why?
Maybe because I'm so
bad at marketing myself,
so maybe that's why
I don't know, but OK,
so but when they
do, to be honest,
it's not like Chris always said,
for me, it's like you never,
ever convince anyone like if
that is, if that is a thing
that they're not willing.
It's so many red flags is how
they talk to you, how they not
respect what you do.
They don't know
anything about what
you're offering and the prize.
I would like right
away thing like,
is this a client I
want to work with?
It's better to aim for
the right level of clients
instead of always ending up
in this kind of situation.
It's not about convincing
people and sell to people.
It's about finding
the right clients.
All right, thank you.
So what I hear is
positioning, I think
that's going to be the most
important to not getting those
low paying clients and
also when they tell you
that they don't
have, you can always
tell like this is how I work.
This is the kind of result
the level I aim for.
Is that something
that aligns with you?
Maybe they just
so not, you know,
maybe they just need to hear
that and they change their mind
and then have a budget.
But if you feel like this
is not leading anywhere,
I would just leave
that and, you know,
send them to someone else.
How do you kindly say no?
And when someone comes to
you and they say, oh, we
thought it would be 5 for
consulting, for brand,
we can't afford your rate.
Yeah, yeah, I'm so sorry
that you thought that,
but you know, this is how I
work, this is what I offer.
But I know other people
that's just starting out
and they need to
start somewhere.
And maybe you can be a good fit.
Do you want me to
recommend anyone?
Yeah, it's great.
I've done that as well.
Sometimes when I play a little
bit hard to get to clients,
sometimes I do that just
to get them as well.
You know, it's a little bit like
fishing or dating or whatever.
It's like when you know that.
When you know that
they're really
like, want to buy something and
then you get a little bit too
offensive, have you done that?
Sometimes, you
know, when you like,
you know that they want it,
so you get a little bit ahead
of yourself because you're so
like, you know, you feel like,
oh, I can get this,
you know, and then
you feel like they're like.
You know what, that
word, when they like,
not coming forward to you
there, like a retreat retreat?
Yeah, they're retreating.
Have you been in calls when
they do like that, you know,
you can feel that
they're retreating.
Yeah and you're like, you,
you agreed right away.
And they're like, wait,
maybe there's something wrong
because you agreed to?
Yes and when they do that,
the worst thing you can do
is kind of go after them because
they will do it even more.
What I do then is like, I turn
around and I walk the other way
and I pretend that I even
don't want to work with them.
Then they come running after me.
I almost do that
in every discussion
when I talk about price.
It's exactly like,
what if you have a dog?
You know what I'm talking
about, because when
dogs, when you know,
when you call your dog
and they don't
want to come, it's
like you need to show them
something that they really like
instead of running after them.
You just walk the
other way and the dog
will come running after you.
That's how client works.
I like how this call
is all about dogs.
It's the same thing.
Clients are like dogs or horses.
That's my theory, it or man,
whoever is editing this call.
Go ahead.
Just take that part out just,
you know, just cut back.
I had to cut our
Instagram story,
so I had to actually to be real.
I had a Diane summer camp.
I had a whole thing
just about sales
and these kind of
companies and people
love that because if people
don't like the sales,
they need to understand, like
the psychology behind it.
I just tried to make
it easy to understand.
Richie, I can I
ask you something?
Yeah how often do you
get that question?
Like, if you were to
say, 10 prospects,
how often out of those 10?
I'd say maybe five, six,
I'd say a lot of them just
don't understand what the price
that goes into putting together
quality production
and especially, I
think being in l.a.,
everybody and their mom
has a camera and
everybody and their mom
is charging $500 for a video.
So when they come to me and
they hear 5,000 thousand,
whatever the scope
is, they're shocked.
And now I'm to the
point where it's
like, well, here's my work.
Here's my body of
work, so you can
see what I'm able to produce.
I can do this for you, but
it's going to be at this price.
And now I'm at the
point where instead
of me being kind of
desperate for the business,
I'm like, hey, I'm good.
Like, I'm really busy.
I'd love to take
you on as a client,
but I can't do anything
under this scope,
and that kind of pushes them
to be like, oh, well, you know,
now that I know that
you're this price,
like, we'll work
towards that budget
or when I can't afford
you will come back to you.
That's kind of what I've
been, what I've been hearing.
And there's some other
objections that I get,
like when this recent client
that came to me, 1,500 he's
like, you know, it's a low
budget and things like that,
and I'm like, I can't
really do anything under 5K.
And he's like, well, if
you give me a 5K budget
and I go back to my
partner like, they're just
going to say no, and
I don't know if we'll
have future business together.
So that's kind of
where we're at.
And that's always kind
of the tough part.
They kind of throw
it on me like, well,
if you don't do
this with us, you're
going to miss out
just so you know.
Yeah, I mean, clients
say all the shit, right?
Like they make you
feel like they're
going to give you
hundreds of thousands
of projects over
the next 90 days.
And it's just a game
technique, and I'm
learning to make it a game.
The reason why I opened
with that question for you,
though, is if 60% of the people
that are reaching out to you
or coming in with
that price, then
Anneliese 100% spot on
that the positioning is not
reflecting 5K.
So maybe there's some work
that needs to be done there.
However, with the objection
that you opened up with that,
I get all the time.
Something that I
learned from Chris
that you can do it with
poise without having
to justify your price is, he
calls it, embrace and pivot.
So you embrace what they said.
You fully accept it.
This is the double down
that he's calling it now.
So you're embracing it
and then you're pivoting
and you're going away having
them justify their logic.
So what it could sound like
for you and me is, Oh yeah,
and if you have it all
figured out for the shoot,
it doesn't sound like you need
somebody that's expensive.
Why would you want
to hire me then?
That's a good one.
And now you're asking them to
justify why they called you
what they see in you.
What they want from
the work you do.
And then you're taking
notes, well, we've
seen you worked with x.
The style that you
shoot in is, is this
and then you go into
that questioning
that Chris does so well
out of all those things
that you listed, what's
the most important?
And then they'll tell you.
And then you say,
OK, do you think
that hiring somebody
at that budget
will knock this out
of the park for you?
Or will you be concerned
of things like revisions?
And I'm not getting it right,
and they'll probably say, like,
well, I don't, I don't know.
That's that's really why
we're reaching out to you.
And then you can then
say, well, if these
are your expectations
for someone like myself
to come in and shoot.
I start at 5 k.
How do we feel about that?
But they've already
justified for you
why 5K is worth it
to them versus you
having to say, well,
that's too low, fam.
I start at 5K so that embrace
and pivot has been key.
And just remember
that it's a game I'm
trying to remind myself
because I immediately
want to fucking
hire everybody like,
yes, I can do all
the work for you.
Please book me, please.
Yeah, that's great.
Is there a call?
Sorry, is there a call
that he kind of breaks down
this embracing pivot?
I can't I can't remember
off the top of my head,
I know he did it on
clubhouse, though,
clubhouse, a lot
of times he did it,
he did it a few
times on Clubhouse.
He was like, then why
would you hire me?
Or that's one way to give
it, but it's all based
on what they actually tell you.
He's really good
about being present.
So whatever I like
that, I like how
you said that kind of
flipping in on the client
and just being
like, well, you've
got to figure it out
like, you know, find
somebody that can
do it for $1,500.
You can actually just search
YouTube for embrace and pivot.
The first video that comes
up is overcoming objections
from the future.
It's a great video
game positioning.
I know who's saying that.
Also, those questions
like why this?
Why now?
Why me?
What book is that?
Because there's really good
also to ask those questions
like why this?
Why now?
Why me?
Because then they
actually also like,
they almost sell to you
why they need to do it,
why they need to do it
now, and why they actually
reached out to you.
Your clearance, isn't it?
No, no, I think
it's someone else.
I don't remember, I just
remember the questions.
I don't remember who it is.
He took it from a book.
There's actually a
book called Why me?
Why this?
Why now?
But I think it's he.
He sends out really good emails.
I think his name is John.
Yes thank you, John.
Jonathan Yes.
Yes I think that those questions
are good because then they
have to motivate for you in
a way why they want to do it
and why they reached out to you.
Can I ask something real quick
or are we still doing the hand
q thing?
I'm about to bounce, but there
are people ahead of you, bro.
So that's why I'm asking, I
go, where do we want to go?
We know we can take
people in the right order.
I think like Lance
was for Lance's first
and then then, yeah, I'm Tom.
OK can you hear me?
Is this my working?
Yes, we can hear you.
Now, you sound
good and look good.
Listen, I hear you.
I just made sure first
I'm turning it on today.
It's kind of goes along with
like Ritchie's question,
but it's a different
like direction.
So how do you get those clients
when you do give them them
their number and in the head,
they didn't give you a number,
you gave them a number.
And they just go, yeah, we can't
do that and like, walk away.
Like, that's where
I found myself,
where I see I watch
all these videos
and like here, all these
role playing in my head,
I'm very strategic and I have
this direction and I'm like,
I could say this
this, this, this.
But I've like just hit multiple
roadblocks where they just drop
and I'm like, wait a minute,
all these role plays,
there's back and forth.
But when I have these
conversations, I'm like, yeah,
we can't do that.
All right, see you.
I'm like, wait, whoa, come back.
Like, what can you do?
Because, you know,
the repositioning
is like, OK, well, here's
my budget, and they go,
oh, we can't do that.
I want to just hear
what their budget is.
So I could say, well, for that
budget, this is what we can do,
but I just keep hitting
the all right, we're out.
What do you do with that?
When do when does that exactly
happened and does it happen.
The same, like in the same
situation all the time?
There is one where it was like
they were messaging me saying,
hey, we just need
this, and I tried
to play the game of like, hey.
So let me, I'm just
getting this straight.
Like, this is the need.
This is how this would help
your business really well.
They I knew they just
they had a number
and they just needed one
thing, and I could totally
offer that to them.
It was just b-roll,
and I was just
trying to dig out like, hey, so
if I Lance created this or shot
this footage for you,
it would be like, wow,
your audience and
you just you're
trying to get this work
for this one thing,
you're going to be like,
yep, that's all we need.
You don't have to
edit you just we just
need to show up and shoot like,
all right, here's my day rate.
And then just
heard nothing back.
And so it's like
that conversation
could have kept going.
And I even I think I
even asked, like, hey,
if that doesn't
work, like, maybe
there's something
where I don't have
to produce or bring xyz gear
like I want to work with you.
This is great without
sounding desperate,
like I want to work with you
as much as like, hey, just
let me know.
Like what you're thinking.
Heard nothing back.
Had another phone call where
like, hey, we're I was.
I'm helping a client
with marketing.
I was like, here's our
marketing budget guy.
He can.
He can offer you x amount
of money for one month
and like, OK, well, how
much would the video cost
to promote that video?
I was like, oh, well, this
on top of like, so OK.
So we can only afford
the marketing guy.
And I was like, OK, that's fine.
This is my price.
And they just left it.
And I was like, I
eventually came back later
because my issue is starting
off at New in this position,
like my skill sets are,
you know, top notch.
But my work previously
does not show what now.
Like the direction
I'm going into,
which is like commercialized
marketing content.
And so when they go,
well, let me see the work
or what could you provide?
I'm over here going like I'm
setting my expectations so high
that I'm willing to
get this high client.
But they're like, hey,
we don't see any work.
You've done this before or.
I just take eat it
and invest in myself
and take these lower
like paying clients
to then be able
to position myself
as like, here's what
I've done for a client
and watch them grow.
So I think that's like where
I'm at because they're just
saying no, because I've never
seen the value that I've
brought to another client
before like that in my head.
That might be the direction
or reason why people
say no and just drop it and go.
Either they'll find
someone else or they'll
go a different direction.
Is a lot of kind of jumping.
Yeah, I was going to do
the same, but you go ahead.
Go ahead.
I was speaking a lot.
Actually, I was just googling
Lance as well as Richie,
and I found it kind of funny
because my question was
probably in the same direction.
But we are all
commercial ad video guys.
So I think we're all
facing that same problem.
Coincidentally,
I also have some,
like my own opinion, that
I've been forming lately,
which I found quite interesting
because not only do I
produce content lately,
I'm going through a rebrand
and I sold my.
I noticed how my brain
actually sold myself on someone
I wanted to hire to a
point whereby right now,
if they left, I'll
be like, Oh no,
I'll pay any amount you want.
And I think this is the
same thing that Mo actually
was giving me advice
about qualifying
the client as well as I think
the other thing was niching
down.
And I always heard
about the niche thing,
but I never really got it.
But lately?
So what happened was I have a
my friend's girlfriend basically
works in an agency.
She works in an RGA.
So creative agency background.
The other thing
that she has done
is I heard she went to this
other company when I want to,
I want to help you
out here real quick.
What did you have
to share for Lance
before you go into your story?
Oh Yeah.
Lance, in some way,
actually sorry.
Being long winded.
But it was a part of the story.
So basically, she
had three factors
that made her the perfect
person for the role I needed.
And I realized that
once it occurred to me,
I was willing to pay any price.
Like, like $1,000 a day
was what she quoted me,
and I realized that if I,
if I didn't sell myself
on her, if anyone else
came to me and said, like,
here's my services, I
happen to be someone that
can help you with the agency.
I would have bargained
down because I
would be like, HMM, $200 a day.
A little bit high.
You know, I'll be trying to just
save as much money as I can,
right?
But once she fit all
three criteria criteria,
I was kind of really sold in.
And then recently,
I think Chris is
having this talk with this
other guy named what's his name?
It's a positioning guy
positioning the positioning
expert.
Position yourself.
His name is Joel Hilgert.
Yeah I went to
his I saw this, it
says here consultant to
the creative entrepreneur
helps emerging studios
become industry leaders.
Elite studios two million
to 20 million helps
bring motion sound
experimental productions
from two million to 20 million.
I'm like, Holy shit,
that is totally me.
Now I'm willing to pay this
guy $5,000 a day as well,
and I see myself getting
suckered in because
of the whole niche thing.
Adam and I realized
how effective that is.
So now I'm starting
to try to really
niche down my video production
into technology and gaming.
I think it's basically
about walking away
like you want clients that
reach out to you because they
feel like you're the only person
that can do this job for them.
And if they go with
you, you're safe.
But again, I'm not
doing it well, too.
I'm still messed up, so that's
just my thoughts right now.
So in short, lance, I
think what's being said is.
When you position
yourself as the best fit,
you won't suffer from
those kind of conversations
because the client
will be bought in
and it's like, you are.
For me, I want you.
Is that right?
When did I get that, alison?
That's that's really it.
I like once you fill the
security where this person
really is, that perfect fit.
For you.
I realized that I would
open my wallet a lot more.
Yeah, but do you know
what that is about?
Uh, say it.
Say it in Toledo.
You know, so one
thing is missing down
because that's how
you create awareness
when you have your knees.
You can create awareness.
You can create
awareness for everyone.
But you can do it in your niche.
But when you have
created awareness,
you need to build
like and trust.
Because if I hired people
like I can, I can actually,
you know, you can role play
with me like another day
if you want to like we can
have another call, just
the video guys and me, because
I hired video guys from 5K
to 500k for like 15 years.
You know, I know what kind of
questions that people will ask,
depending on how from a
really small project to when
you work with really big
commercial TV commercials.
And you know, I could be that
client and role play with you
if you want to.
But because I do think it's
about trust, so it's not
so easy to just, you know,
it's about building trust
because I want to work
with people I can trust.
So it's not that you
are the only one who's
doing that because there are
a lot of people doing that.
But if I know you can make
my life a little bit easier
and I can trust you and
you will be there for me
and you understand me, then
your odds are so much better
and that the cost when you
have a little bit higher.
But yet it's not so
much about the money,
it's about the relations with.
If I trust you or not, the
money is not so important.
They say it's
important, but it's not.
My my video, my video
squad in here, Lance.
You do not have to
justify for them,
have them justify for you
again the embrace and pivot,
like when you're having
those conversations
and they're saying
things like, we just
want somebody to come
shoot it for the marketing.
It's like, OK, based on
your expectations, why?
Who would you hire?
And have them list
out the criteria
of why they would
hire that person
and then ask them, OK, if this
person were to knock it out
of the park, how much
would that be for you?
And then when they say and
then when they say, has it,
Chris said this before,
when they say like $1,000
and he's like, Oh.
I thought this was a bigger
problem than 1,000 problem.
What if what if this freelancer
comes in on the shoot
and doesn't know how to product
or how to production manage?
Are we sure that
for $1000, you're
going to get the right
person to make the shots?
How much do you want
to be hands off?
They've painted you a picture
of their expectations.
You're painting
a picture of what
Payne would look like if
they hired the wrong person.
Then you're saying
how much you're worth.
And I did this
yesterday on a call,
and the person was
like, thank you
so much for asking that question
of what success looks like
and all they're hiring us
for is to edit a video.
But I mean, I could
just be like, Oh yeah,
we can totally edit,
just send me the video.
So I think we all have to learn,
especially me, like we don't
have to justify shit, and
I actually wrote something
that I'm going to post on
Instagram today this morning.
So it feels really on theme.
Have them justify why
they want to pay what
they're paying from a place of.
I care for you.
I just want to hear how much
important this is to you.
And you can see, Chris,
do this so freaking
well every single time.
And also, when we talk
about positioning,
we always talk about
it like, where do you
want to be in people's mind?
That that is positioning
like, what do you
want to have in people's mind?
But I also add in
people's hearts.
Because sometimes
we get so technical.
And for me, it's a
lot about intuition,
like I know if I trust someone.
And if I like someone.
And if I want to work
with that person,
it's more about how it feels for
me than just irrational things.
So the positioning, I think
positioning should also
be like where you want
to be in people's mind,
but also in people's
hearts And how you actually
make them feel that way.
And let me ask a follow
up question on that.
Yeah no, because I want
to hear from some ladies
before all of us, men
dominate the call.
So rich you with
your permission.
No, absolutely.
So Lexi was next, but I
got, yeah, Lexi still here.
But she lowered her hand.
Yes, thank you.
I go, I think I popped
off for a second.
But my question is, and if
this isn't the right timing,
we can talk about
it another time.
But when you know you're
up against other people,
so at the end of like,
you're about to close.
But before you say, can I
send over this proposal?
Do you ask the question
like, OK, I mean,
you want to know if you're
being shopped around
or if there's other people
that you're talking to, right?
Because that will
no one weigh in
on when they might
get back to you?
So you kind of how do
you deal with that part
when you're going to be
up against other people?
Do you ask that question?
Do you assume that question?
I mean, just how do you
deal with that part of it?
And do you face it head on?
Can you just repeat
the first part of it?
Again, I'm a little
bit, I don't know
if I understand your question.
So when you're in
the sales call,
this isn't necessarily
an objection,
but I guess it could be thought
of that as an objection.
Like basically sort
of it's why you?
Why would they hire you as
opposed to somebody else, which
is kind of the
conversation that I think
we were just talking about.
But how do you?
You know, you're going to be
if you're asking the question,
are you going to be
looking at other people
to help you out with this?
Oh, you mean if you
ask them are I up like,
Oh yeah, I mean, if I ask them.
Or if I know that
they're going to be
looking at some
other options, how
do I how do I deal with that?
Do I face it head
on and say, are you?
Am I up against
some other people?
And how can I
answer any questions
to help you decide or.
I'm actually a bit.
Maybe, you know,
now I'm not Chris,
so I don't know how
he responds to this.
So I just I can answer
from my own experience.
I always tried to close deals
before I even send something
I don't like to put in a lot
of time writing proposals.
And I don't know.
It's I mean, it's fun to
have an agreement before,
and that's when it often
comes in, comes in like,
OK, so if everything you
know, we talk about now,
we were agreeing
about this budget.
Are we ready to, you know,
I'm just sending this over.
Are we ready to get started?
And then they might
say, you know, Europe,
I'm also talking to two
other, then you can actually.
That's an objection.
So then you can start
talking about that.
I think we did that last time.
Maybe so.
So I think it's for me,
it's good to almost have
that agreement
before you even like,
you know, people are so afraid.
Most people are so afraid of
actually asking the questions.
And, you know, so they just,
oh, OK, I send you a proposal.
It's like, I don't
even, you know,
I'm probably not even
going to hire them.
It's my thought.
They're like, why
are they doing that?
You know, they're just
wasting their time
because they're probably
afraid of asking me.
If I'm the client I actually
had that conversation.
Why should you put
in a lot of time
writing a proposal if
you don't even like?
That's what I'm getting at
is I don't want to do that,
so that's a good point.
You're saying qualify that
in the call and if there are,
if there's opposition, then
figure that out in the call.
Before you write
a proposal, Yeah.
Because the thing is, you
want to have every objection
up in the court.
You can never
handle an objection
after you wrote the
proposal like you
need to have every objection
before you even close.
Got it.
That's how I do it, I don't
know how to increase the state
and anally I'm
starting to realize
that I want to be a fly on
the wall in your meetings
because you're kind of like
a savage in the best way,
and I want to see this.
So I'm ready.
I want to be a role
play partner so you
can do a 300 people
because I think they're
going to get a lot of value.
Lexi, there's two things for
this particular question.
Annalee just mentioned it.
It's due the hypothetical.
If at the end, if you've done
all your work for the sales
call and now we're
getting to the close,
do the hypothetical if, which
is if I were to go ahead
and send you a proposal.
Are we ready to
start this project?
And that's surfacing
any objections,
but the second thing is
he did it with Ahmed,
and it's saying exactly
what's on your mind
when it comes to competitors.
Is it safe to assume that
you're shopping around?
Are there other
people that you might
be talking to for this project?
And if they say no,
then you're golden.
If they say yes,
then you transition
into the next
question to qualify,
how they're going to decide.
And you can say, well,
how are you going
to pick the person for the job?
And then they'll say whatever.
And a caveat to that is I've
heard in multiple role plays.
If they say, yeah, we're
obligated to shop around
and you're actually
the most expensive,
you could literally just say,
well, do you just need to do.
You just need a proposal
like, do you just
need a one page
pricing sheet for me
so you guys can make a
decision on your end?
And they'll probably
be like, yeah,
because if you're working
with a marketing agency,
sometimes they've
already made a decision,
but they're obligated to shop
around so you can say, oh,
so you just need
a one page price
sheet so you guys can make
a decision for who you're
trying to hire.
They're like, yeah, oh,
I can do that for you.
No problem.
Well, wait a minute.
That's sounds like the
opposite of what Ali just said,
because you wouldn't want to.
Be shopped around
like you'd want to be
the only contender, right?
Yeah, I guess I was
moving too fast.
I gave three
different scenarios.
One, if you're trying
to close the client,
you're surfacing
it with the if two,
if you don't feel like
you're going to close,
you can directly ask them,
are you shopping around
and how are you going to
decide that's to close.
The third option is you
uncovering that they've already
made a decision and you are
just an obligatory third call
for them to give that
information to whoever
is the decision maker.
So it's just three
different scenarios.
But all of them are in
a state of uncovering
that so you don't have to
do unnecessary work, right?
Because if your example
three, then that call
could be done in 10 minutes.
You know, it's like,
hey, I just want
to know how you guys
making decisions
on who you're picking, and
they're like, oh, well,
actually, we're
shopping around we
and this is kind of
a complementary call.
So like, oh, OK,
cool, wonderful.
Would you mind if I pick your
brain a little bit on how
you guys are making decisions
in case we work again
in the future?
But it sounds like
I don't like that.
Oh, you say that?
Let me pick your brain
how you make decisions.
No, if they're I'm talking
about the specific scenario.
If they because I've
heard, I've seen literally,
Chris, do this if they're
like, we actually just
need a third price, but we
know who we're going for.
It's like, Oh.
But then when you
kind of say, like,
I'm not in the business
of providing prices
for non-work like, I don't know,
I mean, you wouldn't say that,
but you'd maybe say, no,
I would say any comment
like that would just turn
me totally off like, right?
No, that's a weird
scenario, for sure.
Yeah, because I do think more
like on point up to this.
Yeah but up to that, I
totally agree with everything.
Every time you say things
like in a really like calm
way with self-confidence
and it's like, you know,
you know, is it safe to
assume that you're, you know,
talking to others just
with a really gentle voice?
And like, you know, I
understand that, you know,
then you feel they
feel like you're
so confident so you can actually
have a conversation about this.
So you're a little bit above
the other desperate people.
So I think it's a lot
about tone of voice
when it comes to this situation.
I think everything most
said was like, really good,
but if you say, like you
said now, like I say,
how would be a little bit like
turned off by that if I were
a client, to be honest, because
it's a little bit aggressive.
Oh, you're saying
my what I said?
Yeah turned off by.
Yeah, Yeah.
I wouldn't probably
say that, but I kind of
feel like I don't
want to just supply
a proposal knowing that I'm
not going to get the work.
So starting up, like I think
what most talking about,
I just put that YouTube
link in the chat
where that example comes up.
I think Mo's referring to
like an agency that literally
just has to pick three,
and they've already
they already know, which
one they're going with,
but they have to present to a
board or whatever the price.
And so you're actually
helping them saying,
yeah, I'll just write something
up real quick for you,
even if it's not
going, you're not
going with me because they
might already have it.
And I think the conversation
is different where
you're trying to win the win.
The agencies like
actual budget and you're
trying to win the job,
but they're already
actually just coming
to you saying, hey,
can you just like, help us out?
And he's like
nailing it by saying,
oh, you just need
me for something
and you're not getting
the job and you find out
that they're just wasting
your time, basically.
So what you're
saying is like here,
I'll write this up for you.
That's why it's that one page.
Here, just take this number
if I have the be and.
Here's a number so that
if you watch the video,
I think that's where
Moe got it from.
I just watched it the
other day and that's
what he was talking about.
You never want to, like, lose
the job, but when you find out
they're wasting your time and
they're just picking around
that they need literally legally
three offers and they are,
and you can tell they're
not going with you.
I think that's the off situation
that none of us want to be in,
but that's what I
was referring to.
It's a very unique situation.
Yes, and I probably did the
explanation a disservice.
So maybe just stay in the pocket
of option one and option two
the hypothetical if and
then a direct question
about if they're shopping
around option three,
probably Chris gets
because he's big time
and he knows these people.
And he's able to be like,
y'all are just shopping around,
right?
You just need a number so
you can make your decision.
And they're like, yes,
and he's like, perfect.
I would not make that
assumption if I were you.
No, I wouldn't go for that.
But and I do think
like I want to say
like I to remind yourself that
it's always more important
your tone of voice
and how you say things
than exactly what you say.
Because we think so much
about exactly the right things
to say, but if you say things
with the wrong tone of voice,
too aggressive or
too like, you know,
people react on that
right away, especially
like high sensitive people
like me could be really
like turned off from
just a comment, you know,
that could destroy everything.
Some clients are like that.
Yeah, that was a big
takeaway for me today,
the way I say take a
breath was not how I
intended for that person to
feel because I like you so
much more.
You know that and my
friends, so I'm like,
you know, if you'd tell me
that I'm like, oh, it's smoke,
but if you were someone else,
I would really react on it.
So let me just ask as a
follow up to that question,
like if you're in the
position of the person
saying you say so, I'm
guessing that you're probably
talking to some other folks
and they say, yes, you say,
oh, what?
What do you say?
I mean, do you say,
oh, that's great?
Well, how would how would if
you found the right person
and then you're just trying
to get them to qualify
what they're looking for.
So that you can say those
things is that kind of.
What you do?
I really want to get
to the heart of that.
How do you deal with
competition, basically?
Yeah, how are you going to make
your decision on who to hire?
Yeah what do you need to
know to make a decision
to hire someone?
OK what do you
usually hire based on?
And if we're as good as Chris
and ally in these calls,
you've probably built enough
rapport throughout the call
that you're the no brainer
option at that point,
but it's probably best to ask
that question anyways, in case
there's anything that you didn't
bring up during the discussion
that they let you
know about, like,
oh, well, we really want
somebody that's local
or we really want somebody
that specializes in this,
and now you're having
a different discussion.
But I think that
would be the question.
At least that's
what I feel like.
Sometimes the question
or the answer is price.
You know, and then
it's like, well.
Anyway, I guess you could
dig a little bit deeper,
I mean, there's
obviously more to that.
Has that been the case for you?
Yeah, I mean, I think that
that's always the gut check
answer.
I mean, that's what they say
except for that's probably
not the only thing,
because if you know, then
I guess you could pull a Chris
on it and be like, OK, well,
if I gave you the lowest price,
would that make you feel?
Would that make you trust me?
I guess.
Don't know.
Maybe not like that.
He'd have more
finesse, but you know,
well, maybe is this
question happening
at the end of the call?
I don't know why my voice
just went up like that.
But is this question happening
at the end of the call?
I just hit puberty.
I just hit puberty
live on the call.
I'm also, I think
I'm also anticipating
that question or
this obstacle, like I
know that I'm being pitted
against other people,
so I'm trying to
figure out what.
How I'm going to
shine, and I think
what you're saying is
really I should shine
in the conversation
and the rapport,
and if I do all that right,
I'm in a different ballpark.
Yeah Anna Lee and
Chris will tell you.
Show, don't tell.
So at that point
for that question
at the end of the
sales call, you should.
To a degree, have an upper hand.
If they say price,
then we're way
behind the eight ball of
not bringing up the price,
probably 10 to 15
minutes earlier.
But if they do say price.
And I think Chris
said it on this call
and anally backed me up.
If this is what you would do.
You can say, well, what?
When you say price, what
does that mean to you?
Is what is expensive relative to
what the quality relative to it
kind of means you didn't
qualify the value up front.
Yeah yes, sometimes I. It's
his dad, it's dad back.
Yeah, he was like
texting me, right?
Are you done?
I'm like, no, we're
still in the call.
Hi, Chris.
3 and 1/2 hour later,
I don't know, is it?
Is he here or not?
Yeah, I'll just say, I
appreciate you answering.
I appreciate you guys
answering my question.
I think I'm done.
Oh no, you're not done now.
Chris is here.
You're not done.
We're holding you
to the fire now.
No, no, no, no.
Lee, what were you
going to say, though?
You were going to?
You were going to
tell her something?
Yeah, I was like, totally,
Oh my god, talk about it.
Yeah, I know the guy was
saying, Oh my god, you guys
are still here.
Yeah Holy cow.
I did an hour long podcast.
I'm I talk to my wife.
I'm like, they're done.
They're so done.
They cannot still be on.
It's not possible.
You know it's still on.
This is your household.
This is your fault. This
is like great thing.
And I think we're on Clubhouse
now in a call with you
3 and 1/2 hour later, you know.
OK, blame me.
Yeah, OK.
I only have a few minutes
because I actually
have another call and
you know, you guys
got to put an end to this
nonsense at some point.
OK, lexi, ask your
question to Chris.
Yeah, please.
Quickly, Yeah.
So my question was just
has an obstacle like,
what if you know you're
up against other folks?
And so you find that out?
How do you position
yourself as the best choice.
And or do you get to the.
Maybe it's about the order
that you ask that question,
but in your sales
pitch script thing
that we talked about
last week, there
wasn't that part in there.
And I guess maybe
it comes up in the.
Is there any reason you
wouldn't move forward?
Oh yeah, because
we're like looking
at some other folks, ok?
Tell me more about that.
Is where that
conversation happens?
I just want to address or
be able to address that?
Have that in my arsenal?
Yeah OK, you have
to prepare for war.
You have to prepare for war.
Exactly and the war assumes
you have competition
because you're not so uniquely
positioned in the marketplace
that you're the only in
the whole world, right?
I mean, I think what
I do is pretty unique,
I'm not the only anything
period I try to be,
I'm working towards that,
but I'm not the only OK,
even Tesla now is not the only.
So what are you going to do?
You have to know where you exist
relative to your competitors.
So this is positioning,
this is really
positioning and understanding
this before you get on,
that call is going to arm
you with the ammunition
that you need to be
able to win this battle.
So we've gone over this.
I think if you dig
into old calls,
it's called the
objection matrix.
Search for this
and I will give you
the overview of it right now.
If you can imagine,
like three columns,
three columns,
like one two three,
take a piece of paper
divided into thirds.
You're in the middle
and then you're
going to create a low
cost competitor and and
and an expert practitioner.
Somebody out there knows
more than you and somebody
out there is going to
be cheaper than you.
OK you have to know how
they're going to respond
to any of the three objections.
So it's going to be a grid of
nine squares, so tic-tac-toe,
right?
So three columns and three rows,
what are the three objections?
You're too expensive.
You don't have
enough experience.
Whatever your third
one, I need a guarantee.
What will the low
price person say?
What will the
expert practitioners
say the one has more
experience than you?
How are they going
to respond to?
You have to thread the
needle in between those two?
Now, I have a lot
of practice pitching
against much bigger, more
established companies
and a lower cost to people in
a garage kind of competitors.
So I know how to
thread that needle
and there is a way
to thread the needle.
So we don't want to go
into this ill prepared.
We should know what the
objections are going to be.
We should know what the high
price more experienced person
is going to say, and we also
should know what the low cost
competitor is going to say.
And just outline those
are your bookends.
They're they're your
guide rails so that you
can't claim to be cheaper
than the cheaper person.
You can't claim to
have more experience
than the person who's got
more experience than you.
That's the dilemma
that you're in.
It's called the objection
matrix on a different call,
if you want, we can
go into this and we
can go into it quite deeply.
OK, so how do you do this?
OK, so I've done this
many times before.
The client, so they
don't literally
say because real clients,
at least the ones that
are going to spend
six figures with us,
they don't ever
talk like the way
that people on these
fictitious role plays.
Talk They're much more civil.
They're much more professional.
And when you ask
them a question,
they are more thoughtful
and contemplative.
It's usually the low end bottom
trolling solopreneurs that
just have no business acumen.
That's why they're there
in the first place.
And so if you constantly
run into these people,
you need to elevate yourself
to be seen by the next tier up
or to tears up.
OK, so if you're
constantly getting
these low ballers, these
tire kickers, bottom fishers.
That's a reflection on you
more than it is on them.
What is it about your
energy, about your marketing,
your positioning that's
attracting these kinds
of people to want to call you?
I know it was a joke.
I can look through the chat.
I can find it
somebody like Chris.
Thanks so much for
taking this call.
I don't know if
I can afford you.
That's how I want all
my clients to come.
Like, I can't even afford you.
Like, I can't believe you're
even talking to us right now,
and there's exclusivity
there scarcity.
There is social proof
with testimonials
and the kinds of clients I've
worked with and there's awards,
there's all these kinds
of things that are
shorthand for people to think.
I just don't think
I can afford you.
So even when you're
on your way up,
you could start to build this.
You can build this today.
OK in every way in shape
that you can do it,
you just start
building it, energy
gets bigger and more credible
each and every single time.
How do we usually go
against these things?
Usually what I say is.
Something like
this, I'm not going
to be your cheapest option,
and if you want the cheapest
option, let's not
waste our time.
You go with that if
it works out for you.
You save yourself
a bunch of money
and actually do me a favor.
Give me your
contact after you're
done so I can hire them to.
OK, so that takes care of
my low cost competitor.
And I usually say
somewhere in there that.
The person that
you're talking is
going to be the person
that you're working with.
You know, I would.
I used to do this
with a room full of
like my creative directors.
You have our entire
creative team,
the most expensive people
on this call right now.
We're here to help
you solve the problem.
And we're going to
see this through.
We're not going to disappear
and hand us off to someone else.
And if you like that
kind of attention.
Consider us, if not,
choose whoever you want.
So I'm simultaneously
taking care of I'm
not going to be
your cheap option,
but what you hire
is what you get.
Big teams have
professional salespeople
and creative directors
to pitch and then as soon
as the work lands,
they just disappear.
It's how they do it.
They put their best pitch people
up front and analyst nodding.
She knows this.
It's called the bait and
switch, and you could literally
refer to it.
You can say there's no bait
and switch here with us.
I is the owner, and
I am going to be
working with you on this
project until it delivers.
In fact, here's my phone number.
Call me later day.
You know, I read this
article in GQ magazine
about some of the
best restaurants
in the world like
Michelin star, you know,
all that kind of stuff.
And what this, the writer wrote
about was he was eating a meal.
They generally, like, discourage
anybody talking on the phone
while they're having their meal.
But he was like 3/4
done with this meal
and he had to use the bathroom.
So he gets up and
goes to the bathroom.
When he comes out,
the chef or the waiter
has cleared the table and the
chef was reading the cooking
the dish again for him.
And like, I've never been that
kind of restaurant before.
Well, just because I
go to the bathroom,
they're going to
make you a new plate
because that's the exacting
standards that they apply.
And that's why they
have a Michelin star.
Think about the kind of
service that you can provide
or that feeling that you
can give to someone when
they hire you.
The big companies
cannot do that.
They're not interested in
that, they're arrogant.
They're busy.
They're a factory,
you're not that.
Does that help you?
That's great.
OK, so if you keep
using this framework.
And this mindset.
Think about it.
You're preparing your
argument ahead of time.
So you know exactly that, that
line that you're going to walk.
There will always
be someone who's
a bigger, badder version of you.
And there will
always be for sure,
without a shadow of a doubt.
Low cost competitors who
are going to undercut you
every single time.
Totally I love
this arsenal idea.
Yeah, go into the
battle armed with what
it is that you need to say
so that how to defeat them
and always assume
you have competitors.
Lance, you want
to say something?
I have a.
So what would the next step of?
Let's say you have nothing
to prove or back you up,
but you have the
understanding the confidence
in the level of what
you could produce,
but you have nothing
to do with it.
Do you invest in yourself
and take those lower jobs
to have that resume?
And then once you've
got like a level,
just go right now, no more.
We're done.
I have the proof, I have
my quality of my content.
Next level, I'm going
to give you two answers
and you can apply them both, ok?
Number one, you'll
notice almost always.
In my role plays, I almost never
said anything about myself.
I don't give case studies,
I don't tell stories.
I just ask lots and
lots of questions
about the other person
what they're trying to do.
And then you could
see other people
ask lots and lots of questions.
Then you're like, why
doesn't it feel right?
Why doesn't it feel the same?
Because they're
asking dumb questions.
There are such there's such
a thing as dumb questions
and you see it in role
plays all the time.
They're asking questions
that aren't driving
to like getting cleared.
They're not asking questions
to get to the problem,
you'll notice some people wander
on, it's like, Oh my gosh,
are we ever going to
find out the real problem
or are you helping the clients
to think through their problem?
OK, so you can ask those
kinds of questions.
You'll see time and time again.
I rarely ever talk
about myself, even
when they force me
to talk about myself,
I'm going to find
another way to give them
what they want, because
in my mind, I'm thinking,
what do they want to know
by asking this question?
And I'm going to ask more
and get to know that.
That's how we set
our mind at ease now,
if you say tomorrow,
I'm doing like 3D
stereoscopic cinematography,
you've never done that.
OK, so you've made a claim.
The next step is for you to
acquire the skills to fill
the gap so that
you close where you
are to where you want to be.
You have to make
that investment.
So you can do it on your own.
You could hire experts, you
can take courses and workshops.
You can offer to do it
for someone as value add
and not charge them
any money, but you
have to acquire those skills.
The reason why I know
the questions to ask
and the things that
I know what to say
is because I put in
that time already.
And I continue to put in
that time all the time.
Right, clients are going to
hire the least risky option,
so you need to be the
least risky option.
And so, yeah, do that
collaborations help out a lot,
too.
So if we have to develop
an app which we've
had to do before we just
start making phone calls
and we call the best web
app developer we can find,
we ask them a ton of
questions how do you do this?
What's a win for you?
Where does this break?
What kind of questions
should we be asking?
What are the things
you need to know
in order for you to figure out
if this is a good fit for you?
In fact, can you be on the call
and we're going a call on you.
So that you can ask
those kinds of questions.
And you become real
smart about that?
OK, Lance.
You could do that, too.
So partnerships and teamwork.
OK, I have to run.
I'm sorry.
I'm sure this call will
go on for six more hours.
Yeah, no, no, it will not.
At some point, you might want
to hit Stop on the recording
because we're going to get
a 10 gigabyte file here.
And we won't be
able to upload it.
OK oh, all right.
I got to run.
I want to follow up
with you because I think
we need to do more of this.
I just got off to a slow start
with some technical issues,
and so we're going to get
back into it next time.
A few announcements and we're
going to keep doing this
because I need to train you to
close the few opportunities you
have.
If you get four or two or one,
you need to close higher ratio.
And I'm going to help you.
OK, so I'm committed
to doing this.
Yes yeah, if you
are your host again,
so you can stop the
recording, oh, I could stop.
Yes yeah, I stopped.