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Sales Objection Role Play Pt.1

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124
Chris Do
Published
August 4, 2020

Chris Do leads an exercise with Pro Group about handling sales objections by asking questions.

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OK, we are recording, we're going to do something a little different today. We're going to go through an exercise that I've developed. I want to talk to you a little bit about the whole theory about what we're doing today. OK, look, you guys are part of my business boot camp. Some of you have taken the objection workshop, but a lot of this is about. Sales, the relationship between your prospect and you and what you're supposed to be doing versus what you might actually be doing. And in reading some of the books and just thinking back on how I've been effective in the past, what I typically do is to. Give the clients control. And how do you give clients control? You give clients control by asking them questions and letting them decide. Now, I know it's hard to. To ask people questions when you're asked the question yourself, so the nature of today's game is going to be based around this principle. Let me share my deck. Well, we. We go. All right, you guys can see the deck. It says it's one. 24 PM. So this is call number one, 24. This is the PM call the calls that I'll be running on a regular basis as whenever I'm in town. So what I want to do is play a game with you guys today. A game of mental judo, mental judo, and it's about questioning and response. So I have some things I want you to try and we're going to observe two people go at it and we're going to see how it works out, ok? The first thing I want to ask you is, what are some of the most common objections in my objections? I mean, questions of the clients have that are an expression of resistance to moving forward with an idea, a design, a proposition, a price or anything. So first, I just want to record what are some of the most common objections that you hear in your line of work and this if you're an in-house person, if you have a boss, if you work within a team, the objection could just be like, I don't like the design. Or this is not what I asked for or this is not cool. This is not rad. Whatever it is. So I'm going to ask everybody that wants to say something to take yourself off, mute and participate. And if you have children or you're washing the dishes or something, please put yourself on mute. And we're going to kick it off with that. OK, so you guys get to see me, right? OK, so what are some of the most common objections? We'll just go one at a time. Well, wants to speak, since I can't really see while writing this at the same time. Go ahead. Throw something out. Well, I don't have the budget isn't an objection, is an objection. OK, so I don't have the budget perfect. Thank you. Who else? We don't have enough hours to give you. What does that mean in terms of my agency, like we were kind of scheduled for the week, you know, here's your like 40 hours for various projects. And if I feel like maybe there is something we need to explore. That's like maybe something extra or something that there's not a function of time, or is it a function of budget? I guess maybe, you know, you're right, maybe that does fall into the budget category, because that's how many, that's how they're delegating ours to me, actually designer yeah, OK. So it says, I know what the budget still up there. No one answering the board survey says 100 people ask. I don't have the budget. OK there you are. OK, who's up next? Well, it's an objection that you hear. You're too small or too big. OK Lauren saying your team is too small. Resistance to strategy or discovery? OK how does this sound when they say it? Why can't we why can't we just do the x or why do we need to? Yeah, why do we need to pay for this process? OK, now again, I'm going to ask you this question, Samuel, is it a function of money like they'd like to do it and but they don't want to pay you extra for it or they don't want to pay for it. And they don't want to do it. I can answer that, to be honest, I think it could be it could be a bit of both in different occasions. It could be down to not selling it effectively enough. And making them want it, or I mean, I've changed my language, to be honest, I make it de facto it's not. It's not a matter of discussion, it's our process. But right, certainly we've lost work basically because I think the strategy aspect wasn't sold well enough. Right? do the symptom or the byproduct of having a clear position is losing work? Is that a good thing, then? Absolutely it means we are for some people and we're not for some other people. We cannot be for everyone. Right so you know that if you never get resistance, you have the serial position. Essentially, anybody that calls that has a pulse with a bucket you take. OK, so I'm going to say, why do we need to pay for this discovery or why do we need to do discovery? OK, so I'm going to take the budget part out because it seems like it still falls back to the number one answer. Why do we need to do discovery? OK excellent. Who's up next? We're not ready yet. We are not ready yet. What does that mean? I think sometimes when I break down the process and get their goals, sometimes they might respond by saying like, oh, well, we're not there yet. Or we're. Well, maybe we'll contact you later. Oh, OK. I like that. Even better. We will think about it. Yeah I. Um, we need something simple. So maybe just less complicated, so it will be less expensive. OK, we're going to take the number one answer off the board right now. You guys can't always talk about the budget. It's right here. You know what I'm going to guys can see my screen, right there. So you have to give me a new objection. Besides, I don't want to pay for it. What? what guarantees can you make beautiful David coats? Bring it in. What guarantees can you make? Beautiful that's a new one. Excellent job, Dave Cote. Who else? We want somebody that's closer to us, right? Right, you're too far away, so I just always wanted to write, I want to write it a little bit more aggressive, ok? You're not close enough, far away. Can you hear me? Yes Yes. And we don't have the time to engage in the process. Sure let's do one or two more. This is plenty now. I usually get something like we've already done that. Yep or we do that in house. And we need something simple and fast. And well, can you phrase that in an objection? Well, how about we don't have the time? OK I think we already have it. You know what? It's right here. Yeah we don't have the time. Well, it's simple. It's always like, it's simple. Why do we need to go through all this, right? That goes to this one, right? Like, why do we need to do discovery, right? What about if like, I don't find this useful? OK that's another way of saying it. OK would you guys say that these are the most common objections that you get? OK, Danielle, you're shaking your head, don't shake your head, you just say what you want then. Did somebody just write on this? So it's right on my screen. Somebody doesn't like you. Yeah you know, screw you, dude. You know, I just do this. Oh, still there? My god, it's in Zoom. You got to do it through Zoom. OK, that's fine. We got happy with that. OK so are these the most common objections? Is there any other objections? Boy, once. Going twice, going 3 times. OK how do you feel when somebody says this to you? Like, what's the raw base emotion that you feel when somebody says this interaction? OK somebody said rejection, it's offensive. Anything else? Devalued, devalued, I like that. I mean, I don't like that, but I like that, right? OK, who else? My instinct is to get defensive and kind of fire back. Right? it does like fighting words, right? It's like your mama or you're too expensive. Those to get you kind of fired up. OK I feel like an imposter, sometimes. Like, I'm like, Oh yes, maybe I shouldn't be charged. You know what I mean? Right, right. It's very effective these objections. You also tend to go into a mode of justification. That's true. Well, if you feel attacked, you need to defend yourself and you justify. Perfect OK, so here's what we're going to do. Here are the rules. OK, this is going to play a game of mental judo. And what we need is we're going to start with an objection and then we're going to. Respond only with questions. So one person will play the client and one person will play the vendor, so client vendor. These are how the role plays work, so whoever answers first loses. It's a very clear on the objective of the game is to try to stay in the question mode for as long as possible, because if you ask a question, it gives the other person a sense of control. Makes them feel important. Now, there are some rules, because obviously this wouldn't be a game that's productive and applicable to real life. If you just did it like a monkey. So we're going to say that it's no parenting, so that means you can't just repeat back literally what the other person says. So I'm taking that one off the table. So if they say something like one of these ones where you're too expensive, then you can't say, well, you're cheap or I'm too expensive. Because you're just parroting back what they're saying. What I'd like for you to do is the person who's playing the vendor is somehow to move the conversation forward and to get clarity and gather more information. So we're going to move away from responding. But we just really want to understand what is being said. And hopefully when you do this, I don't want you to obviously try to antagonize, aggravate or otherwise get into a fight with a client, because that's also going to end the conversation. Does everybody understand the objective and the rules? Yes OK. Fantastic so I'm going to stop the share and we're going to get into it. So please head is already hurting. Are you ok? Danielle, you're lying like this. All right. Here's what I'm going to do. I'd like to team up two men and then two women so that you can just go full throttle if you need to. OK, so I'd like to get two boys. I see Alex thumbs up. So Alec, you're going to be one of them. And then who's going to be the next person? Maybe I'll do it. OK, so that's Daniel, right? Alec and Daniel and I wish I had a dice here. I'd throw the dice and we just pick somebody to go. I like for Alex to be the client first. I think he's going to make like a good mean client for us. And then, Daniel, you'll be the vendor. OK so Alec, I'm going to read to you one of the objections. Let me see which one we'll talk about. Let's just go straight with a number one objection, which is I don't have the budget. It's too much money, however you want to say that. OK, so Daniel, what all you're going to do is you're going to try to stay in this, but yet not answer a single thing. I just want you to answer with more questions. Ok? are you ready? So kick us off saying any which way that you feel comfortable saying it. And we'll go from there. OK yeah, I got your proposal and you mentioned doing this thing called strategy, and it seems to be really costly. And I just that's not where we want to spend resources right now. I think if we could just focus on the project, that be best. What do you think that because it's something that we already have done, it's something that it's like a pretty simple solution. We just need this thing designed and I don't really think we need a logo, right? Or to do all this strategy to do it. OK, so what makes you feel that you don't need a logo? Without the logo, with just the strategy to do it, I want the logo, I want the end result, but I just don't need to. I mean, we could just design it, right? We don't have to go and. And go through this whole process of. So let me ask you a question. What is your most valuable asset? I mean, our most valuable asset is probably our people and then our clients, right? Because without them, we wouldn't have a company. So how do you feel, if I say time? Time as what as most valuable asset? Yeah, how will you feel if I say time is the most valuable asset you have? I mean, it might be, but I mean, generally, we have the time to make something we just we mostly just need to get this done. And so I guess time is a part of it. I don't know if I'd say it's the most valuable. So if we do a discovery session. This might not save us time to help you get the best logo for you or the best design. I mean, I don't see it saving time, right? We're going to be spending a lot of time just kind of in meetings. Look, it sounds like and you're going to be sitting there trying to discover what we already know, which is we just need a quick design so that we can get to reach our clients faster with it. We have a product. It's ready to go to market. It's we're all good. We just need to get this, this design, this website, whatever it is, we just need to get it made. So I mean, you can sit here and talk about it, but I'd rather just do it, and that's going to save us the most time, right? Wouldn't that be saving us the most time if we just started executing rather than spending all this time in meetings? I mean, like I said, we already know what we want. Can I ask you another question? Have you worked before with another designer before or a studio? Yeah, I mean, we've done a lot of stuff in house, but we do reach out to designers like you to get stuff done. And usually it goes pretty well. And have any of those run discovery session with you? Not usually. Usually it's just a short kick off meeting and then we just jump in and work. So so what was it like working with then? How do you feel about them? You know, we like a generally like them. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and badmouth our previous designers, if that's what you're asking. Have you had any prior bad experience about design, something that you don't like or something that is getting delayed because it's not moving forward? I mean, I mean, every project project has its ups and Downs. I mean, there's times where, where, where things don't go well, but I mean, so far, we've been able to get products out and things done. We just really liked your work. So we thought we'd reach out to you because, OK, I'm going to cut, I'm going to cut here. There's a couple of things I want you to think about Daniel, OK, and I want to ask the audience everybody is watching here. You're probably noticing something that's going on here. What was how would you describe Daniel's responses or questions back to alec? Matt, am I allowed to give feedback? You will in a second because we want to know how you feel when he's saying these things, but we want it to be third party objective here. OK, I'll hold up then. Yeah I mean, I have my observations. If there is very, like, very attacking, it's not very empathetic, if it doesn't feel very empathetic to the client. OK, why is that? It's not trying to, it's not trying to sympathize with it. Didn't feel heartfelt, but he's trying to sympathize like is. Is there a problem that we should be trying to resolve together. That doesn't feel like a partnership there? It's more almost like he's trying to convince in a roundabout way, just trying to convince them what's he doing? That's telling you that he's not being empathetic. I think for me, it's not digging deeper on some of the pain points that were expressed. It's true. OK, good one will. So I'm going to make a note here. OK, so I'm going to break this part down, and we're going to continue. You notice that Alec had said some things and almost immediately Daniel debating and just bringing up new issues like how do you feel about time? It's like, what are you talking about? Ok? and I also want to drill into what Samuel said, which is, it didn't feel like you look at the beginning. You said he didn't use the word aggressive, but it just felt like not comfortable, like we're not on the same team. You're going to have to pay attention to your tone a lot, Daniel. Because you say things like very straight and direct, and we talked before about speaking smile or the FM DJ voice. And you're using either of those two things. You're not speaking to slow, deliberate manner to bring them down to you or you're not even you're not having a good time right now, right? You're you're kind of in a neutral to negative state and it's impacting how we perceive the words you say. OK, so one of the things I want you guys to write down right now is to say only work with what the client gives you. So they say we don't like the color purple. Don't say like, what is the texture, ok? It's like, well, I never even mentioned the texture. The way that you demonstrate understanding and you're supposed to be gathering more information, you're not trying to convince them you're not trying to win the battle. You just trying to gather more information. OK, if that was your objective, you I don't know what kind of new information you gain. You'll you'll be shocked in a little bit when I show you or somebody is going to demonstrate how powerful it is just to be. Just put your mind entirely, focus on the client and what they have to say. Did anybody knows anything else? And then we're going to get Alec to kind of tell us how he feels in that position of the client. I feel he is treating like as an order taker and just do what I say and don't ask me question that attitude. Well, whose attitude is that? The client, Alex, yeah, right now we can't control Alec, all we can do is talk about what Daniel was doing in the process. So you're absolutely right. Alec is playing a pretty tough client, but that's not the energy that we're focusing on right now. We want to focus all on Daniel. What has Daniel done? In in this dialogue here. I think that most byproduct of Daniel's actions, so I feel like the client was getting frustrated because, you know, so I think that's a byproduct, they're right. They were not coming together as a team. If anything, they're being pushed apart because if you don't listen to me, what happens? What do we say about this on a different call? When somebody says something and you don't listen, what's happening? I'm transmitting signal. And then what's happening? You guys remember the term we talked about a couple of weeks ago. Transmitting blind. So I'm saying I like apples, I like apples. And then Daniel saying back, but what about mercedes? I'm like, I like apples and you keep saying Mercedes. And so what I do is I have to get more aggressive and I have to be more direct. And at some point I'm going to get really condescending and frustrated because you are not listening to me. You can't move on until you demonstrated that you've heard the person that you acknowledge it. OK, so focus on that, OK, I forget who was talking the because I couldn't see your face. Not not Samuel, the person speaking right before I think you got cut off Asha. Asha, we're there. You Asha. OK, what did you want to say? I wanted to say that Daniel may be trying too hard to sell his services like instead of acknowledging it and take a step back. And of course, even I do that like we all do it. That's OK. So what did he do that made you feel like he was selling? Um, he made the counter like respond to him that. How about if you have more time or it was not enough evidence that I'm trying to solve your problem, but it's I don't know how to say that, but it was more like convincing him that just give me the word. Kind of a thing. Yeah, OK. He was pivoting without embracing. Yes, he was all of at the whole time, wasn't he? And let me ask you guys, everybody else listening. This is fantastic. So Daniel did everything I needed him to do is as he's pivoting. How are you feeling as the client? Me, alc, I mean, everybody. OK, and then Alec, the person who is in it. Defensive any other words? For us, it feels a little forced. Could you see his strategy? Could you see it coming a mile away? Look what he's trying to do. I could look I know where you're going with this. And if we're going to play mental chess or whatever, I mean, I see the move already and I'll have you checkmate in two moves. I can see it coming. And Alex is nodding really hard right now, so he's like, yeah, OK, so Alex, tell us how you felt. First off, real quick. Just around of applause, Renee. Sticking your neck out there and I really mean my wife like turned to me like, it's like, is everything ok? But you really need to somebody. I'm like, right? It's playing planned role playing. It's OK. Yeah we're just sparring. I'm not actually throwing punches. I love you, man. Yes so as the client, what it felt like to me was it felt like he had you, said a strategist, like the set thing he wanted to get me. So he was trying to put me into a corner. So then you could. So then he could deliver the knockout punch rather than using my own momentum against me. So he was doing a lot of pivoting and trying to position me, but I could feel it. I was aware of that and being aware of that made me go on offense because I was like. I had and I knew the responses, my objections, so it's like the time thing for me was the biggest one that just kind of came out of nowhere for me as the client, I'm like, I'm sitting here talking about cost and I know what you're trying to get me to do as associate time with cost. But by just so directly asking me was, what's your most valuable asset? I mean, not saying what you wanted to say. Then you have to keep. What are you hoping? I was going to say this time and then he could have been like, well. And then got into his spiel, but I didn't answer with time. I answered with our clients and what we're offering them is our most valuable is what we have. That's most valuable. So then he's got to try to get me into the position he wants, which is in chess. You can try to do that, but if they know what you're going to do, then it's really hard to do that. So I did feel like I was being pushed trying to be pushed into the circumstances where I would say what he wanted me to say. But that feeling of being pushed didn't feel good from the outside observer. It almost felt like Daniel was asking you a question. He wanted you to say apples. And when you said oranges, he is like, no, I'm going to ask this another way. And then eventually, you don't even say what he wants you to say. So he's like, how do you feel about apples? OK what? That's when he's like, how do you feel about time? What do you mean? Time like that was even awkwardly phrased question. Right so this is where you have to kind of be in the moment to forget about what you want to do. OK, so this played out perfectly. Now I want to raise the stakes here a little bit. We're going to get into this a little bit more, OK, so I want each person to write down a couple of things, one or two things that you would do in a sales situation like this. It'd be very prescriptive, right, like, OK, don't do this or always do that or never do that. So do this always do that or never do that and just write that down right now? Write down one or two things and as we keep going, hopefully by the end of this, you'll have a game plan that's three or five bullet points and you can apply to the very next sales call that you're on. We have to anticipate the client's going to push back on something. You want to say them or just write them, just write them right now because I'm going to ask you guys to reflect it, then. Ok? OK, everybody got it. Right down one or two things that you would do either Never do or always do. Give you guys a minute to write that down, because each time we do this because I want to increase the level of difficulty, I'm going to change a variable here and see what happens. OK, now I want to watch two women do this and see if there's a different approach, and I'm going to add one thing here. A lot of you guys that are playing the client are accommodating because you're also creative, so you kind of meet the creative, more than halfway through. If I'm going to give you guys permission now, if they say something is funny, you can just call them out on it. So in the previous example, Alex, what does time have to do with anything, what are you talking about? So then that changes the dialogue, because Alec is probably staying in the dialogue way longer than a real client would, because at some point I'm like, dude, are you wasting my time? I think we're done. And that's it. So if you're feeling something, I want you to be self aware and say, I'm feeling this, is this what you're trying to do? Yeah can I just jump in on that, one of the things that would have if I was the client where I would have stepped out is when he started asking me about my previous designers. And like, what were they bad? Were they not good? It's like. That right there I've had people I've hired do this where I'm trying to hire them. And they sabotage themself by being like, oh, I can do that better than the last guy you hired. And I was like, you don't know the context of what I hired the last guy in, and you're done. I'll just tell them, like, sorry, this interview is over. I would have hired you. But then you started bashing on the last design we made and saying that, that guy wasn't any good. And it's like, I thought it was fine. I just liked your work. So that that's just if I was an actual client, that's where I would have just dropped the x. Alec, why is that a trigger for you. When people talk about other people? One of the reasons why is because you don't know the circumstances. And so I know for a fact that our project is probably going to have its own hurdles and you're seeing those as the designer and like, oh, that little animation could have been smoother and that you didn't realize the deadline or you didn't realize and for what the time did, it was really good. Also, I'm still friends with that person. Like, you don't know who designed that like that could have been my kid or my wife or my cousin. And then you're insulting their work by saying, well, the previous person you worked with wasn't as good as me. And it's like, wow, that feels that's really egotistical. Like, does it feel like it's a cheap shot? I think that's part of it, I think part of it definitely feels like they're punching down. What else is it? I think another part of it's probably. I think the assumption like it's like there's is a large leap of faith that they're making that I don't know who I'm hiring. And like, it's questioning my me as a client in a lot of ways of the last guy you hired, you didn't have the expertise to hire the right guy. And now you just happened to stumble upon me. It's like, no, I chose you for a reason. And I think what you do a lot, what I would, I think the correct answer to that is like, why did you hire me then? Like, this is how I got the result that you liked my results and I kind of gave him that bone like I hired you because I liked your work. I heard that. And then the response I would have liked to have heard as a client is like the affirmation of like that we do. I do do really good work. I'm very proud of it. And one of the ways I make that work is. And then so on and so forth. But for me, hearing that. Well, the last guy you hired was no good. It's like, well, careful there. And I've had clients tell me the last person I hired was no good, but I don't ask them to tell me they were no good. So do I have this right? When somebody questions the work that was previously done in a way, they're also questioning your judgment and you find that to be somewhat insulting? Yeah or if I make a recommendation to somebody and they say, I don't trust that guy, I'm like, well, then who you really don't trust as me? So you're saying it's better off that people don't do that, don't make that assumption. If somebody's going to say it, then it should be the client who says that, did I get that right? I mean, be careful of. Of questioning your clients. Intelligence, intelligence, yeah, it's like essentially it's you're saying. Because what you need, it's like two steps in, right? Like if I give someone a recommendation to a restaurant or to a friend and I don't trust, I don't want to go there, I'm like, it's not that they don't like the restaurant, it's that they don't have faith in me as a person recommending it. Or if I were to come. Someone a designer and they go like, no, I'm not going to choose who you want to choose, I'm like, it's not that you don't trust them. You never met them. You don't know not to trust them. You don't trust me. And so when you look at my previous work and you say it's no good, it's like you're not insulting the person that made the work, you're insulting the person that ordered the work and directed it. Would it be fair to say that to people given the exact same circumstance where somebody questions previous work might have two very different responses where one is the way you responded, where another one is like, you know what? You're right, that person didn't do a good job. Is that possible? It is possible, but I think you can lead the client there in a different way. I think rather than saying, like, have you had bad, bad projects, it's like they might be like if it's fresh in their mind and it was awful, they might just be like, yeah, but that's a roll of the dice for you to ask that right? I think a better way of doing it might be something like saying like, so on previous projects, what hurdles did you have? Right? or ask them, like, prompt them like, oh, what's something that you found to be a common thing like rather than just like, oh, did you work with someone that sucked like, oh, what's something that what's a pain point? Like, reveal the pain points, right? Right? rather than questioning with a better question, be to err on the side of neutral to positive versus negative 2 neutral. And that question might be. Did you have any challenges with the last person you worked with? I don't even assume that there was a challenge, would that be an OK kind of question for you? I think that'd be better. I think the best one, like I was saying, just be like, why? Why did you not hire the last person if I said, like, oh, previously we've done this and previously it's fine. It's like, OK. Can I ask why? Why you chose me this time? And they might be something like, oh, it's because my I normally hire my cousin. She's getting married this week. Right, right. So that that's where I would go. You think it's safer to stay neutral, negative, neutral to positive, right? It's probably much safer, but I would go straight positive and be like, oh, you like me, right? That's like vermin. You made a good decision. And so you're getting them to argue with themselves, right? By saying, like, well, you like me and you're not. Did you know, why'd you choose me like? And it's like, oh, well, I chose you because I think your works really great. You're cool. But this is how I do my work like. Right? OK, so here we go, guys. I'm going to call cut because I don't know if you've noticed, but I was asking Alec questions the whole time. I did this demonstration for you guys to see, like, I'm not here to sell anything, I'm just here to gather information to get clarity on what Alec thinks and to keep driving the conversation forward. There was no sales being had here because I'm not trying to convince. I'm just using whatever he's given me. Yeah, and I've asked questions almost the entire time. Did you guys realize that was happening? OK excellent, because you get to try. OK I would love for two women to step up, and then we'll go from there. OK, and I'm going to add a variable right after you guys do this. OK, so we're going to do another round here. Can we try to people? 62, two volunteers. OK, I found two volunteers that just stepped forward, why don't we try? Aaron, since you have a camera on, it's OK, Aaron. Yeah if you don't want to, you just say, don't just give me that. I was like, blackout, can we? Can we try? OK, perfect. And how about sarah? Sara, you ok? You were like smiling what Aaron was doing, you're like, forget that people can see me, so there's so many people. Yeah, but I can see you. There's this thing called the camera. It's on and I could see you. Yeah, I'll do it. But I just. OK, so I'm going to tell you something about how human behavior works. If there's movement, that's where your eye goes. You stand there really static. I won't pick you, but you're very animated. So I'm like, yes, it'll be. OK all right. Who would like to be the client and who would like to be the vendor? I want to try being the vendor. OK, perfect. But you've all been there, you're the client. This doesn't work just perfectly. OK, let's do this one. Let's go with the next one is like your company. No, I like this one. Why do we need to do discovery? OK that's your objection there. Why do we need to do discovery? So let's do a little, just tiny little setup, and then let's go. So Aaron, you're going to kick us off and start. When you're ready and I want to say one more thing. We're all watching, and it feels like you have to say something right away. I know that. But if you need to think about what you want to say, just use that time dead air is totally OK. For both participants. All right, Erin, when you're ready. OK, so all right. Yeah, I'm totally winging it here. OK, so I'm not into the idea of discovery. So, OK, so. Sarah, it's so great to talk to you. I'm excited to hire you for my. Brand Identity Project for my new company that I'm starting, and it's awesome to talk to you to thank you for making the time to connect so that we can talk about the project a little more. Can you give me a little bit of just back? Oh, wait, hold on, hold on. She's she has to start with the objection you have. I don't want this to be a three hour call. That's the problem. So you guys in your small talk, let's just get right to it, ladies. OK, so so I'm starting this company really quickly, and I'm going to need a logo and a website and the whole thing by the end of the month. So we just needed to do it quickly. OK I can understand what it feels like, you guys come on, you just shake your head and you have to say, I don't want you to do discover, I don't need that. You have to get to the objection. So she can respond to it. Let's try one more time, take three, take 3 and you do understand, right? I do. But I was late to the meeting, so now I feel like I might have missed a little bit of. OK, I'll tell you all you need to do is say, why do we need to do discovery before Sarah says anything? Ok? you do not say a single word until she gives you an objection. OK, it's like, OK. All right. Here we go again. All right, perfect. So take the read. OK, so I need this all very quickly. So I don't really understand why we need to spend too much time on Discovery. I can understand it. Can I ask you a question? How are you going to measure the success of the logo, the website, all of these deliverables that we're talking about right now before we spend any money on it? I think mostly feedback that I get from my customers. Do you? Go ahead? I'm sorry. Well, I mean, it's an adventure travel company, so I'll ask. I'll ask people what they thought of. So the branding and when you say you're going to get feedback from your customers and what they thought, I'm just curious, do you know who could you describe these people to me? Are they your ideal demographic? Long well, I guess I'll also ask friends and family to and people that I who are in the industry and whose feedback is most valuable to you in terms of the success of your business. Um, well, I guess in the beginning, my colleagues, but then after I get up and running, I'll ask customers what they think or is there a particular reason why you would ask your colleagues or your clients first? Well, I don't really have that many clients yet, so totally understand is there? Who are you? Who? who is your business best suited for? Where are you hoping to become your clients? I'm planning to go after baby boomers who have more money and want to come to Alaska. For like their bucket list trip. That sounds awesome. How how do you plan on communicating with them in the right ways? What kind of information have you gathered thus far to make sure that when you do spend this money, it's going to be really effective for you? Um, I haven't really thought about that too much, I'm just trying to get things up and running and trying to do things as quickly as I can totally, totally understand. What are what are some of the outcomes that you hope to achieve? Do you have any really this first time that we do it? If I make this many sales or as many new clients this, I'll consider this successful. I mean, if I book all of my spots for this next coming summer, then that would be success. OK And is there a strategy in place for that or do you have an outline, or an idea of how we're going to take all these deliverables and use them to make sure we get all these bookings? I haven't outlined the whole thing, but I've been in the industry for a long time, so. You know, I'll just get the website launched and advertise and all the usual ways. So How's that successful? OK, tell Tyler. Good job. Good job. Good job. OK, I'm hearing all kinds of things. I'm hearing all kinds of things, so I want everybody moving forward. That when the other person speaks, I'm noticing something you're not writing anything down. Sara, you writing things down. Sarah, no, no, sorry, no. OK, no, no, no. Totally, OK, so this is perfect. You're doing exactly what I want you to do because I have the opportunity to help. 35 of you guys improve your sales game today. The first order of business, I don't know if you noticed, but I write, I'm writing everything down. OK And the reason why we write is it gives us something to focus on. So, Sarah, I'm going to imagine I know something about you, ok? Because I've coached lots of people, and if I get it wrong, slap in the face. I think you're thinking about, how am I going to respond? How am I going to respond? How am I going to respond instead of like, what is she saying? What does she mean? What is she saying? What does she mean? So if you write that down, I then want whoever does this next time, only to pick words from the piece of paper. And the piece of paper says this is what she said. So after a couple like starts, we get right into it, she wants something done pretty quickly. She doesn't want to do strategy. So the very first thing that you said was how will you measure success? She didn't talk about measuring nor success, so you brought up a new topic. Well, Daniel, do you see what she's doing? OK we basically committed the same crime again. We just changed the topic, it's like, why doesn't anybody ever listen to me? I mean, this is what the clients are thinking, right? Like why is Sarah going off on this? The next thing that Sarah didn't do is I try to tell you. Smile have fun because you're not having fun, you're just like talking very serious right now. Now you guys notice every time I say something goofy and I smile. Many of you guys, because I can see your reaction, you smile. And it's kind of an addictive thing. It's called mental mirror. And when you smile, when you say, Oh my god, discovery is that crazy? What is Aaron going to say? No, f-you, you stupid blah blah blah. No, she's going to smile. I think maybe it's crazy. Am I crazy, too? I'm like, I don't know, are you? We would just play the game. All right. Now I want all of you guys to take a moment also now to write down one or two things that you would do either Never do or always do again. We're going to build a little collection here. You're going to give yourself advice. So whether you're playing this role or that role right down one or two things that you would do or never do. OK reflect. Because here's the cool thing. There's a really cool part to this, let's just say you're a terrible at doing design service work, but if you learn how to coach other people through sales, you can have just a career in that. You really you can coach other creative people. OK, now. I'm going to role play a little bit with Aaron. Now, you know what, screw it, I'm not going to show you how it's done yet. All right. I tried to demonstrate before with Alec, whatever he says, I just go deeper and deeper into a dark, dark hole of his mind. That's all I want to go in. So just give you a little tip. What is it? Aaron gave us all that we needed to help her when she said. I don't want to do discovery. What should you say? The word discovery needs to be in how you respond, by the way. Somebody give me a response. And your answer? Go ahead. Why don't you want to do discovery? That's a good one. What do you understand discovery to be? That's a good one. Have you had a bad experience with discovery before? Aaron, how would you answer that? As that client, I would say. I just don't really have time for it, and I'm an expert in my industry, so I'll know, I'll know if it's good. I don't really need to spend too much time on it. I know my customers and what they like. So you said you were expert. And you don't have time. Is that right? Yeah so do you have a game plan moving forward? Are you asking me? Yeah I mean, you're the expert, right? Um, yeah, I mean, I'll do everything the standard way that people in the industry do it me to line it all out for you. No, no, that's pretty good. So you have the plan. You just need somebody to execute it, is that right? Yes my vision. Perfect you have a strong vision. You're an expert and you don't have time to waste. And there's a standard in the industry. That's what you're hoping to achieve. Is that right? Yes OK. Since you're the expert. Why aren't you working with the same people that you have in the past? Did they not deliver on your vision? No, they were really great, it was just time for me to break it on my own and do my own thing. And grow and grow my own company. I'm talking about the vendors that you've worked in the past. Oh, but like the last designers or yeah, did they do what you asked or not? Oh, I didn't work directly with them when I was with other companies, so this is kind of my this will be my first time working with a designer directly in building. I see. I see. OK, I'm going to stop right now because I actually accidentally went into this, I'm not supposed to. I was just writing down words that she said, and you'll notice them, which is that I will repeat back to her over and over again until she feels like somebody hears me. And then we can move somewhere else. So there's a lot of embracing going on. So I just want to set this up because we only have a couple of iterations of doing this. Now what we're going to do is we're going to just level up one more time. OK, I need two more volunteers. I don't care who it is, somebody who hasn't done this before. I want to play a slightly different game. There's a new rule. Both people, both vendor and client, can only respond in questions. Now the game gets complicated. OK, once we get into the objection after the objection, the vendor will respond and in both sides, go back and forth with questions, and I think we just have fun here. We're just going to have fun. OK, that's the only objective here is to see who cracks first and you can take time. Like if there were a chess clock, you have time. You don't have to answer right away, right? Are you ready? Who wants to play this part now, and I'll give you the objection a little bit will just unmute. OK, you're ready. William Samuel beautiful. Here we go. Will you'll be the vendor and Samuel will be the client. I feel like he's going to be a good client. I mean, a good bad client. let's go with. I don't find that useful. Samuel, that's your line. I don't find that useful. Does it matter what doesn't even matter what you give a little setup and then you're going to conclude it with, I don't find that useful. Just so we have a little context. So you can't bring up like Martians or something. OK, OK. And I would do. Will you'll play? Remember you guys, you have time. Everybody has time. If you slow the clock down is to your advantage. If you freestyle rap and you go slow, it's much easier than to do it fast. I'm telling you right now. OK, Samuel, it's all you. Well, I just I just don't find that useful. You said you don't find it useful. Can you clarify what you don't find useful? Listen you didn't just break you, Samuel. I got it, I got it, I got it. Yeah bring it back. I mean, that was really done. He's just broke like that. OK, don't end it right there. It is difficult. You can only answer with the questions. Yeah, is there anything specific that you want me to dive into around it? I think what I would like to know is. Because when you say it's not useful, it makes me feel like you have some background in this, I just would like to know what your experiences have been. Can I clarify so hard? It's not as hard as you think because I can do it all night long. Let me just tell you like a Lionel Richie song all night, I could do it on that. But here's the question please. OK, go ahead. Go ahead, David. What? they don't know what they're talking about. They don't know what is not useful. It doesn't matter. It's just a dumb game. It's just a dumb game. Samuel was supposed to set it up. He gave us no setup and he just went straight for it and he got stuck right away. Samuel, I thought you were prepared for war, my friend. Come on, you're supposed to give us a little bit of setup. OK, we're going to rewind the clock. OK, guys, OK, the clock. Give us a little setup. Just use something from your real life. OK OK. And then we're always going to play with you. Give them something to work with. And it's just a game, guys. I just want to see you where you guys take this. Go ahead. When you're ready, I think they're a little confused on if it's on the subject of strategy or not, it could be about anything like anything, anything, a website, whatever it is, you just have to set it up and then tell him that part's not useful to me. I don't find that to be useful. OK all right. Well, I just don't find landing pages useful to me. Landing pages useful. What's your experience? What are what are your experiences with landing pages? I've had a few. I've had a few experiences. What about yourself. If you've got much experience using them personally? No, you can't imagine paring back what he says. You ok? I need a new dance partner. You can't just keep asking why? Why? why, why? Why you have to give a new business formation. Oh my god, it's hilarious. OK, I need another dance partner. Somebody else jump in here. Someone who has not participated. Who is going to kill me right now? You're hurting, Dave. Dave, he's crying right now. You made a grown man cry. Why would you do that to him? OK, will, you're still in the hot seat? I need somebody else to dance. How about lauren? about lauren? And you're going to get why? How do you know what's going on? I don't know. It's just that feeling. You know what? I bet a bunch of people are thinking the same thing and whoever I pick, they're going to say, I know who you're going to pick me. I knew it. Yeah, it's true. OK so Lauren, you're going to be the client again. I need somebody to mess it up, ok? And you guys cannot just pare it back. You understand when I say that right? When will says to you, like, what is your experiences with landing pages? You can't say, well, what's your experience with landing pages? We just don't know where to go with that. All right. So, Lauren, you're the client. Give us a little setup. The conclusion is what is the conclusion we got? We're talking about. I don't find. I don't find that useful. That's your punch line. That's the punch line. All right. Whatever I try and keep you guys entertained, if nothing else. Can I just do discovery? You can do whatever you want and you can do whatever you want. Go ahead. OK we have a limited budget. And I just don't find discovery useful. Oh so you have a limited budget? Can you explain to me what your budget looks like? Didn't you already see that in our rfp? I did, but I was wondering if you had some more insights to our piece in very straightforward. And it sounds like you run a major company. I'm just wondering if there's any more details that you can elaborate on. What kind of details would you need? I think I want to know from you what you find so restrictive about the budget. Well, I don't see Chris. OK, you guys don't to play this game. It's obvious to me nobody knows how to play this frigging game. I'll have to go back to the drawing board because obviously it's not working very well right now. OK I don't have kids, so I don't get to play fourth. OK, let me point out a couple of things that probably won't work in real life. When you when you say we need this and and we have a limited budget. And we don't feel like that discovery would be useful. It was odd that we'll broaden this whole, like, what's your budget? Or and then you guys are like talking about things that nobody's introduced into the game yet. So it's kind of like you guys are just improvising the entire time.

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