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The Win Without Pitching Manifesto Pt.3

#
21
Chris Do
Published
January 4, 2017

In this 3 part series, Chris Do leads a keynote on one of the most influential books on sales “ The Win Without Pitching Manifesto ”

Read Transcript
So here we are. Guys, I apologize for the delays I spaced out and forgot to give you guys the link. So here we are. We're on episode 21. I'm going to get this rolling right away. OK, so this is the finale here and we're in the homestretch. But what I wanted to do was to ask you guys about whether or not you were able to do any of the homework. Did anybody do any homework at this point, since we're kind of weeks into this? Anybody? nobody. OK all right. You guys remember this part when you had to go find a client that you don't want to work with. Hey, Chris. Pardon me. Ben, can you recap the homework? Yeah here's the homework. It's on the green screen. Can you guys see the green screen? Yeah all right. So I said, you guys find a client and you don't work with for whatever reason, maybe they don't have the budget. They want to dictate the process. They don't respect you or whatever it is. It doesn't matter as long as you don't truly, honestly don't want to work with them. And instead, when they come calling or when you come when you call them back for something, I want you to put in a different mindset to be of service to them. And I want you to help them find a solution that is not. Whatever that might be, oh, I think this book will be very helpful to you or I have a friend who does that. Maybe they can help you or, you know, I'll send you the link to fiver or 99 Designs. And here's how you navigate that so that you don't get scammed or get ripped off, really just genuinely and try to help them. And then the point of that exercise is to be mindful of how you feel in that client relationship. OK I think I was talking to my friend who was a doctor of anatomy, and she said, cortisol, is that the cuddling hormone, the bonding hormone? You guys know what I'm talking about, like when you snuggle with somebody or you give them a deep hug, it releases cortisol in your body or I'm sorry, it's not cortisol, it's oxytocin. My bad, I mixed it up. Cortisol is the stress one. So the whole point of it was to try to get you in a different mindset to change the dynamic between you and your client to understand what it really means to be a service to somebody. And I think this is where not you guys specifically, but quite a few designers I talked to who really lack empathy and really just focus on their own portfolio, their own objectives. I need to make rent. I need to do this. I want to close this, I want to do this particular style. And you guys are supposed to report back now. One person in the group has done this and had quite amazing results her name Carrie green. So I was hoping that others would try it, but I don't know if anybody has. It doesn't sound like anybody has a second question. Oh, you have a question? Go ahead. Well, it's actually like I've done it before with another client. But the results were actually kind of interesting. What happened? They wanted to come back. That's the exact same result that Kerry got. Yeah isn't that the weird new process? Yeah so it's kind of this thing and this ties into what Blair is saying in a different way. When you don't want anything from people, they want to give you things. And when you want to work with them, they don't want to work with you. It's the kind of polarity of energies. So you help somebody maze, so you have the exact same experiences carrying myself. I just try and help people find other solutions. And the more I try to do that, the more they want to work with me. You don't really want this. It's too expensive. You know, higher designer, you'll save half the money. No, no. We really want to work with you. It's really weird. Reverse psychology a little bit. It just says I'm here and I have nothing like I'm not trying to sell you anything. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. And I'm objectively just trying to help you now. Prior to our call last night, I was thumbing through this book that I have. me hold it up to the screen here. It's called 101 things I learned in business school. It's not a great book. I'm not telling you guys to go run out and buy it. OK, but it's thumbing through, and there's some really interesting business principles in here that I know. And it was kind of one of the things here it was talking about. Whoever has leased a gain in a negotiation has the upper hand. And that's what you're talking about here, right? During this conversation, I will kind of run through a few of the things the Nuggets I got from this book. And share it with you, and it dovetails into everything that we've been talking about. And there's just, you know, the win without pitching manifesto is 12 proclamations. This one just has 101. OK, so I'll talk about this a little bit more later if we have time. So it makes I'm glad you did that and that you have a similar reaction or outcome as I have. Definitely I hope you guys the rest of you guys. You got to give this a shot. Got to give it a shot. I just realized my light turned off here. Can I plug it in? Sorry during. All right. Next, next, homework assignment. You guys are supposed to identify some objections and I think we said three. And you're going to prepare responses to those objections. Part of the win without pitching manifestos, you should know what the objections are and be prepared to talk about them. Better yet, instead of just talking about them, you should bring them up first. One of the objections is you're a really small firm. I need a bigger firm. Right, when you talk to them, it's like, I'm not sure we're a good fit. I run a small design boutique and you may need the services of a much larger company. So there's no more you don't have to play defensive anymore. And that was the key. Did anybody do this to anybody identify what their three objections are? OK, we're off to a killer start. My computer doesn't work and nobody's doing any of the homework. Anybody? no. All right. Ben raised his hand and doesn't count, but OK, Ben, go ahead. Benny, other Mick. What do I get for x amount? Well, say it again, and you hear me? Yeah so one of the things is like, what do I get for that? Meaning you fill out what I'm receiving from you for that budget? What do I get for that? What is the underlying motivation for somebody to say that? What do you think it is? This is. It's it seems too expensive. So they're looking for what the deal is, right? So really in truth, what they're saying is this is more than what I wanted to pay, and I'm ashamed to even say that. So I asked, what do I get for that? It's kind of COVID language to say that, you know, it's too expensive for me. OK, that's a good objection. You are too expensive, and Ben is calling in from a cell phone, I take it Ben, or he's tethering his laptop to his cell phone, so he's got this kind of weird three second delay that you see on CNN sometimes. His mouth is moving. Now you hear the sound. It's bad. All right. Who else has got to know who's got an objection? So I have an objection. Ok? so a particular client had asked me it's like, well, I wasn't really I didn't really want to buy strategy from you. I was just, you know, I wanted to talk about videos. And I said that, well, my rebuttal to that without it, you know, without a strategy, we're just kind of making things without an unclear idea. So that was recently that was this last week, ok? It's like, I'm not I really don't understand the strategy thing or the discovery thing. So what do I get out of it? OK and I said that you get a clear view of who you are and who your customers are, and in a good view of your strategy and your idea and your brand and all that stuff. But OK. Excellent hold that thought, Sean. A follow up to that objection is I. Well, I could tell you that I we don't need to do a strategy session for us to figure out who my company is and who my users are and all that stuff I know. And I could just tell you. OK this is perfect. These are three really good ones. Anybody else want to add one? I would be typing this up on my keyboard no longer functions. Yeah, anybody else? No OK, so here's what we're going to do then. Instead of Tim responding to his own objection, I'd like for somebody else in the group to respond to that objection. So the setup would be something like this. Let's pick somebody in this group who wants to talk. My mouse. Because I need to identify a person before we start, because inevitably, I'll give you the Setup and then I'll pick somebody and then they'll say, I wasn't ready, can you do that again? So how about Amy guzman? Amy? yeah, how did you feeling sharp this morning? Mm-hmm Let's do this. All right. So Tim, you'll be the client who doesn't want strategy. And you're going to tell her she, you know, I don't need it. And then we'll see how Amy responds to that. OK you guys ready? We just can't get right to it, so don't talk about how, how are you doing? Let's just get right to it. So Tim, take it away. Yeah so I reviewed your proposal and I don't really see any value in having a discovery session or the strategy. You know, I'm going through some things right now, or I have to worry about my daughter because she lost her job and and I had to really, you know, watch where my expenses are. I was just a little surprised by the cost of it and what value it would bring me. So I'm Tim. You can tell me you could be me. Tim, are you responding to it? Go ahead. I thought I was a client. Everybody wants to be the vendor. I'm the vendor. Yeah um, OK. Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that about your daughter losing your job, I understand that times can be tough when people lose their job. I definitely sympathize with that. But the return is going to be greater on your investment. If we do strategy, you'll see better results. My past clients have seen much better results when we do strategy than creating something where we're guessing in the dark. I don't like to take chances with my business, so I don't want to take a chance with yours. How do you feel about that? So, you know, we had a discussion and I thought that we were pretty clear on what I really wanted. And you know, right now, I am pretty happy with the way my company looks as far as the overall identity. I just called upon you because I was really interested in a couple of things, one being a video, and otherwise it was a t-shirt design, and I just wanted to see if you had any interest in doing that for me, and it sounds like you're not interested at all and doing that work. Yeah, my brand really specializes in strategy first and then execution second. So we might not be the best fit for each other at this moment. So we can stop it right there, Chris, because that's how I concluded, yeah, that was great because that's I actually in the conversation I had with them. I said, it sounds like we're not going to be a good fit. You know, here's what we specialize in. And I went in to talk about how we conduct strategy sessions and how we put your strategy together and how we build design and identity off of that. And then I left it at. That's how I left it, and it was well received. And he said that, well, I'll think about it. And that's all right, right? I learned that you don't need strategy. No, it doesn't. It is a he doesn't want it, and it's going to be an uphill battle. You guys both did a really good job. I want to point out some things that you guys did really well. First thing is, I noticed that Amy started out by empathizing about his daughter losing his job or her job, right? And then she went into with her past clients, and this is kind of how she works. So that was also very good. And then she very respectfully retreated and ended the deal. Right this is straight up win without pitching. I'm going to give you some nuanced things and then put perhaps a totally different approach to do this. OK, I'm going to see if I can't teach you guys or at least expose you to a different way of arguing with the client. OK and the first thing is, I love the empathy, and that was great when you get into talking about past clients. I would have preferred a story with some detail. This is the thing that you guys need to work on. It's like, you know what? Here's what happened last time, and I have a handful of these stories when I went against my instinct and said, you know what? This one time the client knows what they're doing, and I'll let them dictate the process. And here's how it turned out. So you need to kind of paint a picture in their mind with details. So that's not just like you read it in a book and you're just trying it out for the first time. Hey, Chris. Yes so I did that too as well. So I shared examples, previous examples on how when we design things without a clear idea or a strategy or what the result is. So oftentimes we get what we don't want, right? And if you guys go back into the archives, I believe there's a talk that's already been recorded. It's called The Art of the argument how to win every argument and we get into this in greater depth. I'm not going to get into it right now on a deep level, but I'm going to introduce you to this concept. Ok? the point of an argument, and if you want to win an argument is not to prove you're right. It's just to prove the other person wrong. It's a radically different approach than the way you guys have been talking about this. Now, let me say that again, it's not to prove that I'm right. It's just to prove that you're wrong. OK, so I'm going to rewind the tape here. Tim says to me, I don't want strategy. I know what I'm doing. OK, so I want to prove to Tim not that I'm right. I want to prove that Tim's thinking is wrong. So Tim, you've obviously done this before. You're the expert here, right, tim? Yes OK, so how did this workout for you last time when you said, this is the way we want to do it? So it's funny because that came up and he was talking about, well, you know, I'm not really happy with my luggage, exactly the only reason why they're calling you is because it didn't work out last time. And if it did work out last time, it was with you and they want to do it again. Yep so just a footnote here, I have a hunch that he'll call me. I just I think that he was a star. You guys handled it well. Both of you guys did. You really did. But I want to try to help you guys think of a totally different approach. Now, notice something here. When when Tim says, I don't want strategy, I don't need that. It's really kind of confrontational. And then it puts you in the defensive, right? It really puts you in the defensive and your stress levels are going to go up like God freaking Tim doesn't respect my process. He does one cheap bastard this and that you're going to go through all these things. And exactly what happened? You feel it. Do you feel it or no? Yeah, I did. I was like, I was, what's happening here? Felt like you punch me there like two Rams ready to lock heads, right? They're going to smash into each other. That's what's happening. But what happens is you can't get hit if you're not in front of a person to get hit. This is when you needed a slip to the side and say, you know what? That's an interesting approach. You must be the expert. Well, I'm not the expert, but you just told me you were. Oh, I never said I was an expert, but you told me this is how we're going to do it. And here's go do it. You must have been an agency, art director or creative director at one point, right? I'm not going to say it like that. That's condescending. Vitamins Yeah. OK, so let's kind of follow your logic, if you will. And this is a term I like to use, and I learned it from someone many years ago. OK, and you guys should just add it into your vocabulary. It's like, I just want to check the symmetry of your logic. OK symmetry of logic, symmetry of thinking. So you're saying this is what and this works, so can we find an example in your life where this has worked? And they're not going to be able to. OK they're not going to be able to that's the point I want you guys think about this differently. I'm not going to go into any more than this unless by the time we're done with this without pitching review and then we could talk about anything you guys want. Makes sense. So far, you guys. Yep oh, I have a really interesting is at Marlene, which is a really interesting composition of Marlene's like left shoulder. I like that. That's kind of artistic. It's got a good force perspective. Keep your hand in there. Ok? all right. So all these other objections about like, oh, I could tell you that and all that kind of stuff, or you're too expensive. Let's learn how to talk about this in a different way. Don't get into the defensive mode. It puts you at a complete disadvantage. OK, now I'm not sure where we left off. I think we left off with number nine. Talk about money early. Does anybody remember? I think we all had three left 10, 11 and 12 right. That's that's what. OK, Thanks TAM. OK proclamation 10. You must refuse unprofitable work. It's interesting how we talk ourselves into saying, well, only take me an hour or that's actually 1,000 more than the last client and we don't hold our ground. And I'll tell you why, according to Blair ends, it's really important for you to hold your ground. So here's the thing here's some rules to think about only give favors to your best and longest standing clients, not the first time somebody calling you. This happens to us all the time in the motion industry. Hey, guys, we saw your show. We love it. We don't have much of a budget and we'd like for you to pitch on this. It's like we'd love to give you a discount. I'd love to help you, but we don't have an established relationship. And are you going to come back and tell me there's 10 other jobs you have and you're going to award them today as well? If you are, I'll give you a discount on this one. Now I've seen this happen time and time again, sadly, through experience, where my executive producer was so aggressive, so hungry because the opportunities are slim. Let's do it, let's do it and we do it and we knock it out of the park. We kill ourselves and make almost no money. And you know what? They a never call again or B call us with another favorite job because it's been established. You're the favorite guys. Think about your relationships, your personal relationships, you guys. There are people that you can really count on and call on, and there are people that you really respect their time. I shouldn't say call and count on, I mean, call them just abuse like a doormat. And there's a couple of people it's really interesting. Part of my own personal brand is almost every time I talk to somebody that's in a new relationship that knows me a little bit, they're like, I know your time is really valuable and make this short. It's like, I didn't even say anything. It's already been put out there because I just don't make my time so easily available to people. At present, company excluded. All right. So the other part of this is you can't get in your own mind and start convincing yourself. That operating on thin margins is a way to go to onboard new clients. It's not the way to go, and I'll give you some examples of this to. OK I'm probably jumping all out of order, but. I want to share a story with you. The CEO of one of my clients calls me all the time. Literally, I'm in bed yesterday in the morning with my wife sitting there. Phone rings, I look at it. I know who it is. I take the call. And so after I get off the phone, she leans over, she's like, oh, this client's going to be just like pestering you all the time, aren't they? I said, no, I don't see it as them pestering me at all. I actually want them to call me. And she gives me a really strange look. Why would you want that? Because I really like this client. They are paying me so much money. I'm thrilled, and they're calling me about every important decision in the company that just they're calling me about personnel issues, they're calling me about marketing plans, et cetera, go down the list. That's a relationship I want. Now the only difference between why I'm not annoyed and why I'm looking forward to that call and why I'll take it and almost any point in the day. Is money. Same person pays me 1/10 of what I asked for. I don't want to take that call, I'm turning it off. I'm not going to take them, send them to voicemail. Can't talk now. Call you back later. And my whole disposition, my mood, my feeling, my all that stuff is completely different. Instead of it being a positive thing, it's a negative thing. And the only difference is money. I mean, I like the people I work with, but sometimes they undervalue what I do. So I have clients like that too. I like them. They just call me all the time like God. Now my effective rate is $6 an hour. Yeah, I'm getting killed on this thing. I probably touch on some nerves there. OK the highest value is placed in the diagnosing and prescribing state. And I have a pyramid on this, you guys, so I'm going to jump down to my pyramid. You see this pyramid. It's the value pyramid. I'm condensing everything from this book into like four or five things, and it's really all it is. So writers want to write more. Designers, I want to read less. So here it is. Here's the value pyramid, ok? On the top we talked about this is the thinking. And for, according to Blair, the second tier is writing. Maybe you don't, right? But it's called. You can also call it planning the strategic phase. Like putting together tactics and strategy. And then the last one at the very bottom is manifesting the making of it production, and I consider production, shooting, film writing code, doing front end interface design, making the packaging anything that requires you to turn an abstract idea into something more tangible. Now this is where most of us went to school for, and our entire practice is built around the manifesting in the making part. How do I know all I have to do is check your website, because that's all it shows me is the making stuff. Is it true? We just think about it, it's rhetorical. Just think about it for a second. OK, so if you get paid to think and during the conversation with Kyle Cooper, that episode will air in a little while, he says. Sometimes clients don't want to give us a job. They just want to hire me to come in to critique the work so that somebody else did. And at first he was thrown off by it. But then he's like, you know what? This is really cool. I don't have to make anything. They pay me a ton of money, and all I do is tell them what's wrong. Now, I just rhetorically speaking, how many of you guys would like to get paid just to tell people what's wrong or how to make it better? Like all of us? That's the thinking part. OK, now, if I ask you guys, I didn't create the graphic for this, but look at your buildings today. OK if you take 100% of your buildings and you put an allotment of the buildings towards each one of these tiers, where's the breakdown? Well, I'm going to guess and I'm not going to say this. I don't mean just to be critical but really want you guys to think about. This is most of the money that you're building comes from the manifesting part. Now, some of you guys are starting to change that and you're charging for strategy. Getting paid to think and talk and walk to, but yeah, OK. And then the writing planning part of it is the articulation of the thinking. The capturing of the ideas and the writing planning stage, and I've told you this before. Management consulting firms that I know are like charging tens of millions of for the thinking and the writing planning part. Their pyramid is exactly the way it needs to be. And if you look at their Billings, right, all the money would be in the thinking part. That's the value. OK, so getting back to this here, so. OK, so the question I have for you guys is when and under what circumstances have you been tempted to take unprofitable work? So that's a prompt you guys could tell me some things, I don't write it down when there's not a lot of work to be done when you're slow. Yeah you feel that pressure, right, I got to take the work. Yeah, because something's better than nothing. Something it's better than nothing. Perfect I think always really know, Tina, don't say that. Well, no, I like I want to feed people, you know, like I want to grow really quickly, so. Sometimes you take on stuff a lot of time we do, and you know, we know it's probably not the best idea, but we're just trying to make sure we're not going to sink. That makes sense. It makes total sense. And I know it's I know I don't. We shouldn't be doing it. I know we're wasting our time. We're working. Well, hold on. I'll stop you right there. Why do you say, this is what we do and I want to feed people and then I know I shouldn't be doing that? Why do you why do you shouldn't be doing that? Um, because I think the quality of work goes down, and I think you kind of build that pattern of. Being in that mentality of being hungry and it's not it almost looks desperate. Does that make sense? Mm-hmm Makes total sense. And are you but I feel like it's pretty common for designers, don't you think? Yeah oh, totally. Are you kidding me? Yeah so it's very common for creative people that are in business for themselves. Yeah, well, I don't know, like when I first got started, I didn't know what to charge, so I took on a lot of projects just to get the experience and also to get my name out there. And it actually kind of worked like I don't regret taking on a lot of the smaller projects because it kind of helped me prepare me for the bigger projects. I feel like I've progressed, you know, in doing that. It's very interesting, Sean. I've been thinking a lot about mindset shifting mindset, ok? And I don't know if this is revisionist history in my own mind, my own delusional bubble. But for some reason, when I got out of school, I never felt like that. Now, going to a school like Art Center will continue to be one cocky mofo. And I'll admit it, I was probably one of the caucus there. And so I never walked out of school thinking, I need experience, I always felt like you kidding me, you want me to work with you. This is what it's going to cost you. So I have to kind of take myself back and pretend like that experience didn't happen and really get into your mindset, you guys, because Tina, Shaun, you guys are sitting there thinking, dude, I need to prove myself, I need to get some experience. I need to develop and I will pay for it myself. Now that's not to say I'm not doing that today I am, but I'm doing it in a very calculated way. So we'll talk about that. OK, so we're going to segue into the next bit because I think it flows right into this conversation. Well, the solution to all this stuff is to charge more Dana, to charge more, Sean. We got to charge more, you feed more people if you charge more. So let's get into what is charging more to do. Well, you charge more so that you can do a better job. We know that I even tell my clients to straight up like, how much is this going? Whoa, that's expensive. You know what? We're really good at taking whatever dollar you give us and multiplying that in terms of the product, I could hire better x person, better animator, better design and better production artists, better cinematographer. I can use more equipment, more lights. And so this will look. Instead of like a million dollars, will look like a billion. We're very creative at doing that. So if you want to pay me more, I can do a better job for you. Not in terms of my own effort, but the resources I have available to me. I charge more so I can have more time to think. Or I can provide better service, like I'll take your call at midnight. You want that kind of service? No, you don't. OK, well, I'm that kind of guy. You know, you buy you, you subscribe to the, I don't know, the diamond card. There's a concierge service you call them when you need help. And that guy? Your diamond service, but you have to pay to play. OK, so here's what he's saying say I could charge you less, but then I'd be constantly, oh, this is maybe this is what I said, I don't know. Anyways, here's a way, you could say something as a response. I could charge you less, but then I'd be constantly billing you for overages. And I don't like working that way. I feel it's petty. I'd rather charge you appropriately so that I can deliver an excellent customer experience. Wouldn't you prefer this? I've used this many times, and most of the times it works. OK, I just want us to do something a little goofy right now, I don't need you to say it out loud, but I would just like for you to at least read this once from beginning to end in your mind. And try it on for size inside your brain. All right, so I'll give you guys 10 seconds to read it. OK, now I always try to tell my clients a story about what it is, I'm trying to get them to think. So I'll say something like most of my clients, when I work with them, they we want to just flow, we want to run. And if you ask me to make this bigger or try this out or hey, there's a variation you want to consider. I don't want to push back and say, well, you know, the scope is like this and, you know, we're kind of past that around and I don't want to do that or I got to charge you more money, then you're going to feel like you don't want to call me. In the last thing I want you to do is to feel apprehensive about calling me because you want to get you're going to get dinged with an overage. So let's do this. We know it's going to be like, design isn't like this thing where you pull an arrow back or a bow back and you shoot the arrow and it just goes in a straight path. That the copy that you wrote seemed OK until we made it into some kind of form and then by looking at it. We have to say now it's not quite right, because you helped us to make it look like something more concrete, and now we realize the copy is incorrect, well, I include all that I accommodate for those kinds of moments because I know we're human and we can't always visualize things. And that's a good thing, but I just need to charge you for us all. And I do it up front. I don't know that you're committed to that kind of process. Yeah, let's work together then. OK here's another thing he's saying, if clients are saying yes, too often you are charging too little. You're supposed to get pushback. You guys Latina, I imagine in your firm you're not getting that much pushback. The prices are too. It's like a crazy John. Like, it's going now. It's a deal. Take it. And people are just lining up the door and you're working too many hours. So many hours. It's true. And we know that and we're trying to keep our head above water. Because we're getting so many projects closed. And it's almost like it's becoming like addictive. But we need to start doing exactly what you said. Yeah let me just say it like this. There is no shortage of clients who are willing to pay you very little. It's almost unlimited. They're all out there, but there is a shortage of clients who want to pay you a lot. We need to work on finding those clients. And so one of his ways is to. Say how he says no is to ask a client if they'd like to work with a more affordable firm. So when Ben burns client says, you're too expensive. You don't try and push back as that, would you like to work with a more affordable firm? That's a nice way of saying you're too cheap. You can't afford me, right? Would you like to work with a more affordable firm? OK the bullet points. Now, why you would want to charge more? It seems like I don't even need to say this. It seems like somebody shouldn't even need to write this, though we shouldn't even have a discussion about it. But here we are, you know, 852 AM on a Wednesday morning prior to Christmas and the holidays here. So profit improves service. Anybody want to argue that having more money improves the service? And I'll give you an example. Some of our clients fly in from out of town. When they pay me so much money, I send a driver to pick them up at the airport. That's pretty good customer service, don't you think? Have you guys ever gotten off of an airplane and some what is it called a professional driver holds a sign that says, Tina, Sean, you guys have. Good for you. Somebody thought you were important. Did it feel good? Guys, it feels good every time I get off the airplane or airline, whatever, I walk through the chute and I come out and there's all these people holding signs, Mr Johnson, Betty. And I'm like, God dang it. One day, one day in my life, I'm going to have a guy hold a sign for me. Now I want to pay somebody to hold a sign for me because I want to know what it's like to feel important. And then finally, one day I showed up. In Slovakia or in Vienna and a German driver, no, he wasn't German. He was a Slovakian. He held up his side. I'm like, dude, I made it in a foreign country, but I made it. I have arrived. Damn it, it feels good. OK when clients come over and we're getting into a longer meeting and it feels like lunchtime is coming around the corner. Some is going to come out. They're going to take your order. Wouldn't it be nice when the clients came there and you hired a professional car detailing service and just took care of the car? Wouldn't that be great customer service? Now you guys are smiling, it's like we love to give service to our clients, we want to make them feel great. And the better they feel, the more likely they are to come back. And give us more work at a higher rate. The only way you can do that is to charge more money. OK Blair calls it the ringing phone test, and I already gave you the example of the ringing phone tests when the phone rings and caller ID shows up. And that person's name shows up. How do you feel you cringe? You roll your eyes, you're like, oh, no, not again. What now? Or you're like, hey, hey. All right, let's talk to that person. Right that's the ringing phone, Tess. Now how many of your clients right now. Think about your clients, your vast client list right now? All 37 of them. Think about them. Which ones? Past the ringing phone test, what percentage? If it's a low percentage, we got a problem. If it's a high percentage, I need to pay you to coach me. OK think about that. And think about this, we are paid to make the little problems go away. Oh, you've got a printing issue, no problem. Last minute change. I got it. You're not sure yet, I'll hold your hand. So he loves this way of thinking. He says if you charge so much money, you can eliminate the change order. No more overages. So, you know, we don't have to do this confrontational thing with a client like, you know, I got to bring this up, but this is out of scope and like, what? When did you come out of scope? Well, it's almost never out of scope because they charge so much fricking money. All right. The last thing he says is strategy is how we do not what we do. I don't fully truly totally understand that, but that just summarize whatever's in the book. It's how we do it. We use strategy. OK, here's what we need to tell ourselves. And if we're not there yet, we're going to develop this, our systematic thinking and deep experience is valuable. And it's not something that's quantified in time. So clients aren't buying your thing, they're buying you're thinking they're not buying your time. So I think some of you guys saw the Nigerian scam that I've been sharing with you and we'll see how that goes. And you notice there's no breakdown. There's just a number. That's how I work. And then my clients need to put into a contract because they have to have a committee approve it, and so they have to take everything I wrote and put ours against it, and we're working on this together. Literally, we're working on together contract side by side. I'm like, you know what? I've got to be honest with you. I never put hours against my work. He goes, why is that? So what because I'm fast. Then I'm good. Because I understand that. Let's let's just delete all the hours then. I said, yeah, I don't work with you, man. If there's a problem, I'll spend more hours on it. I don't think you're paying me to measure the time you're paying me for measured results. Sometimes it takes longer. Most of the times it takes less because I'm good and I have a good team. OK and this is the weird thing, this one is going to blow your mind, you guys, if you've not read the book yet. You guys ready for this? Charging more attracts better clients. What? no way. Way Tina, charging more tell will this attracts better clients. I don't want the riffraff coming in from the street. I don't want the mom and pops who were like, yeah, I don't know anything about business, but I think this is what we need and I'm an expert. You don't know what you're doing, Johnny. Like, really? The gates are high and blind. Keeps out the zombies. You can't overcome that wall. Only people who have lots of money who are very professional can scale that wall. They only want the best. This is where we're like trying to be. I don't know the rolls-royce dealership and not the Kia dealership. No offense to anybody driving a Kia. I want to give the best service. I want to have your cappuccino. I want to know everybody is going to wear a suit and tie. It's going to be Primo experience. This is speaking to Tina because I'm seeing her smile from ear to ear. OK, right? We want to be premium and we are premium, so charging more attracts better clients. All right. Proclamation 12 and we're in the homestretch. Ladies and gentlemen, I can't believe it. We're almost here. It's nine AM. This will give us some time for discussion and debate and questions and all that kind of stuff. All right. 12 again, it's really strange that somebody has to say this value yourself. And you are thinking, of course, I value myself well. Maybe, hey, Mike. What? oh, sorry. I know when Mario enters the room, he just everybody knows. OK, guys, let's look at the bell curve. You guys have seen the bell curve, right? Just imagine Taco Bell. The bell curve is a big hump in the middle, and it tapers off to the left and right Flanders off to the side. This is old bell curve, ok? And when you're looking at, say, what is it called wealth distribution? At least in the United states, at some point, I think there was this middle class. So there's this group in the middle and they're doing really well. OK, so they drive the economy forward when the majority of the people are doing well, the country is better off. You'll see there that if we look at this as an economic curve, income or wealth distribution, there should be few people on the left side, the people who are below the poverty line. And there should be few people on the right side, the billionaires, the oligarchs. We know this bell curve isn't. Representative of our economy anymore, what's happening? OK, so what's happening here is the middle is disappearing, and according to Mr ends, you're either strategic thinker or your design commodity. OK, so let's go back over here. So here's the inverted bell curve. What's happening is the middle is getting crushed. So you take that bell and you flip it upside down. OK, you guys see that now. Now this is where guys like Mark poche, who I believe are on the he on the floor. Yeah, he's on the phone, he's feeling this pain and he's vocalizing it like almost every other day on the internet. He's feeling his pain greatly, he's a dude, clients just don't respect what we do anymore, fricking them doing 35 bids and nobody's pulling the trigger and they always want the cheap as well. What's happening is the rise of the internet. Now young kids, small firms from all over the world have access to the same clients, the clients have access to them through different internet portals. So we see now the people that are in the poverty line instead of it being here. It's now here. And the big agencies, the coms of the world buying every other design firm. Are consolidating on the right hand side of this curve. What's happening to you, me? Small to medium sized businesses and medium size, I consider anything under 50. We're getting crushed in the middle. It's flattening out in the middle there. The money is being diverted to the left and the right. People often say there's less money for creative services. I don't think that's true. It just moving somewhere else. It feels like less because you're in that middle hump. You're in that Valley. Or you're going to start to compete with the people on the left hand side, and you don't want to do that. See the arrow right here. So I think Mark was here, and then we're getting brought down here like I can do fancy animation. And guys in the fiber space, in the 99designs, they're over here. There's lots more of them now. It's called the inverted bell curve. All right. So this is just him wrapping things up, Sikh respect above money. That you need to be able to look yourself in the mirror and say, you know what, I'm valuable, and I walked away from this one. That whatever small amount of money I thought I was going to get to keep the overhead going to feed those hungry mouths that are staring at me. I've lost some of my own respect. OK, now here's some positive spin on all this stuff. The world now more than ever needs innovative design thinking. It's the best time to be a creative person, but you have to understand how to evolve your practice, how to be in the 21st century knowledge business, the knowledge work, that's what you have to be able to do. And I see so many opportunities. You have to have the courage to pursue it, though, to change. That's the hard part. OK, so if we're able to do this a little bit more, I kind of phrase it something like this saying no now leaves the door open to say Yes to future and better opportunities. It always feels like that no new opportunity will be around the corner. But this is where you have a gut check. And this is why you guys are an entrepreneurs. Because you have that courage. Risk is just part of the job description. If you didn't like risk. Go work for somebody else. So having being a little more risk tolerant as part of your DNA or you just have to kind of develop it to nurture it? OK and there's little things that you guys can do to build up your. Risk tolerance, and that is to do risky things. Now, you don't have to do risky things in your business, but you can do some things that are risky. On a personal level, I think that's why they have those fire walking ceremonies. That's why people jump off bridges with a bungee cord. I'm not saying you guys go do this and burn your feet or die, but you can take small risk every day so that you become more acclimated to the idea of risk, and it's OK. All right, we have time for questions. What is this? And nobody has any action items on my keyboard doesn't work, so if we want to do some action items today, then we can. Now here's my question for you guys just to get the conversation going here. Question number one is this is that many of you guys have not read the book. Many of you do not even own it because I'm seeing people post like I got my copy finally, like a year later, you guys have your copy. Now I make exactly 0% on the sales of these books, unless you use my Amazon affiliate link, which then I make 3% But I'm not here to sell books. I'm here because some of you guys like to read and reading is the way you learn. And it's here in the book, but the problem is, once you read it, are you able to retain it? Are you able to apply it? And that's why we're having this discussion, so I would like to just for us, for anybody that's willing. To share how this process has been like for you to have a group book reading like this, we've taken up 3 whole calls to read this book together. Thoughts, opinions, attitudes, criticisms, comments, kudos. Anybody? can I say something? Mark, here is that Mark posh? Yes, of course it's me, baby. OK, back, baby. Yeah, well. Well, hey, no, it's all exciting. I love. I love the word. I'm sorry. I sound muffled today. I'm like, I've signed this issue, so I hope you can understand what I'm saying. Totally go ahead. It's the vast information from this book is so overwhelming. And I must say in one key moment for me was this pyramid and the word shows like he or he shows. OK, whatever we do, it's basically where we're the bottom of this, whatever we've done. Yeah, it was. It was crushing me, sort of. Because does it hurt, you know? Yes, of course. Of course, because I love what I do, and it seems like an eye opener. Also, it shows me, OK, we need to position ourselves in a way we need to get out of a comfort zone. I love design and love design. I love love being in my ivory tower and really upgrade our services or even look into how can we apply strategic thinking and even writing and create something of more value to our clients. So it's not just we're decorators, we're designers, we're pretty shiny things. But this was really an eye opener, as I said. But you know, applying all this, it's just overwhelming. And I started, I started updating and I'm actually in the process of updating the site and even all the content and even thinking about all those stores you want to throw out. You want to send to your clients, you want to insert into your all the section of a website. It's time consuming and I have earmarked my entire holiday season pretty much for that. And there will be you'll see some probably some beautiful things you can like. But again, it's overwhelming. And I must say I'm grateful for this, for this, for this whole, for the process and for sharing all this information with us because I've never had this before, this kind of experience. Great good to hear. So don't blame me for being. Don't blame me for being lame or not being following through, but it's happening. I said happening over. Now you keep blaming. OK, but you'll see some progress. Good, good. Now I want to say one thing, and I'm glad, mark, you're saying all these things because I want to hear a little positivity in your German accent voice, right? So here's the thing. It's not enough to just say like it's smoke and mirrors you actually like to believe and you have to actually execute on it. You can't go around saying, I'm a charitable person. That's not there's only going to go so far. You actually have to live and breathe what it is that I'm trying to get you guys to understand. OK and mark, you have so much experience, you have talent. You know what you're doing. The question is the world has kind of changed around you and one day you woke up and you're like, what the hell? I didn't sign up for this. So we have to make a decision. We can sit here and we can continue feeling that way and be grumpy about it, or we can say, you know what, I'm tired of feeling bad for myself or angry about the world. I'm going to go do something I want to channel that energy into making. It sounds like that's exactly what you're going to do. So I'm excited for you. Thanks somebody else want to share something I'm excited to. I must say good. It's a journey I haven't I haven't pursued in a long time. I know it was overdue and you got you got I got I needed this kick in the butt. Good I have a happily played the role of boot in, but next time. OK, you can get your love with and your warmth from Jose. OK Yes. Yeah the guys go burn some candles together. OK, somebody else? Anybody else? Hey, Chris, this is Catherine. Hi, Catherine. Hi, Catherine. Hey, I wanted to say that I really like the idea of the shared book review because I do like the book from beginning to end, but in the group it was really helpful when people shared what really stood out to them. And there were parts of the book that I hadn't focused on until people started making it clear. So it really helped me. And I think maybe it was Mark who posted like the hierarchy being consulting, writing and then artistry and when people started commenting on that and it really clicked for me. And there's actually, I wanted to say that if you could do something like this for the book that you've mentioned a few times influence, I'd really like that and be open to that to. I could do that, I could do that. OK, we're getting a little bit of an echo in Catherine's thing, but she's meter herself, so she enjoyed this process and people kind of pulling little bits surfacing key insights from the book have helped reinforce the lessons and made her kind of rethink it. So influence, if you guys couldn't read the wind without pitching, manifesto. influence is a beast. Let me go, get influenced and show to you. I'm pretty sure influence comes on audiobook, which will be helpful for those of us who don't have time to read. Yeah, there it is. And reorganize my bookshelf. It's theoretically more organized than it was before. So here's influence Dr. Robert cialdini, right? You guys can see the book now. Let's just look at a couple of things. You guys see the differences in thickness. All right. So this is like four times the amount of information. And unlike in Blair's book, which is like 36 point type, this is just all straight up like a regular novel, it's heavy duty reading. So I look at a bunch of designers here, I'm like, whoa, cut off with this bad boy. OK, now here's the really cool thing about influence. It's an excellent book. It's an amazing book, and I think there are six or seven principles. I already have a slide for this somewhere in my deck, there are seven principles, and let's go over it a little bit. What's amazing is. Robert cialdini, it's very odd to smell like an Italian name, so I always mispronounce and somebody says it's just it's called cialdini, but it looks like cardini. OK it's already on my Amazon bookstore. You guys? OK, so here are the chapters like the way you can just check out a book real quick is just look at the table of contents. So chapter 1 weapons of influence chapter 2 reciprocation the old give and take. OK 3 commitment and consistency for social proof. Five liking. Six authority, seven scarcity, the rule of the few, and that's the entire book. So there are seven principles of influence, and he has many stories. I understand it's a very good book. I've never read this book in my life. But I lecture from it all the time. That's a scam artist that I am. I had one of my creative directors read the book and do a book report. And he's a really smart guy, so I'm like, OK, I understand it, good concepts, things. And so there's some very powerful things in here. OK, now this is a base to get through. Now, I'll make the pledge with you right here right now like kind of hand on the book, if you guys pledge to read it, I'll read it to. It comes an audio I will pledge to listen to the audio. Are you guys? I tried the audio books before, like the beastly book from Steve Jobs and I just like, fall asleep. I'm going to be dead in a ditch on the road somewhere. I can't listen. I'm a visual learner, so that unfortunately doesn't work for me. I can't learn that way. So, Tracy, I guess you can, huh? I can. It all depends on the book, though. A lot of times I'll get the print version if there's a lot of charts and they don't provide a PDF on The Audible side. So it all depends. Sometimes I have duplicates where I'll go deep into a chapter in the print version. But I'm just saying, I tried audio books just doesn't work, I can't retain the information I need to see the way the words look. It's really weird. Yeah, like I have the Princeton Review here from when I was in high school studying for the sat, and I listened to the audio portion that came on CD or audio tape at that point. I just couldn't. It just couldn't stick. And then I see the words on the car. I know what that word means now. Oh Yeah. Abnegation accurate. Acrimonious you know, it's like, I get it because I need to see the words anyways. Part of my thing, I think, and is hopefully one of my skills is the ability to process information and simplify it. So doing these kind of book reviews and discussions together help you guys, I'm more than happy to do that. That gives us a curriculum to infinity. As you can see, there are many, many books that behind me, I have not read. They're really good books, so I'm told. So we can dig through it for like 10 years. OK all right. It is now nine, 16. Somebody have any other questions. Because I said, you know, there's some certain things I'll mention at the top of the hour and I'll save time for us to talk about them if you want me to follow up with it or not. Can I can I make a book recommendation real quick? That might be. Yeah, interesting to note on the books that you guys want us to read next. OK, go ahead, Marty. Marty Neumeier his book is Zach like from zeke, Zach, zach? Excellent I love it. It's another like a smaller book with a great message. We can. We could. We could walk through easily and easily. Just actually get. So good. It's on the bookshelf right there. OK questions her anything or this is it, this is it for us, you guys. End of the year, end of the year. Chris, I do have one more question for this slide that you have up right now with thinking, planning and manifesting. Do you have any thoughts on how to show the value and how you prioritize thinking in the messaging on your site or any examples of sites that you think do a good job of that? OK good question, good question. I'm going to mute you. All right, because I was getting an echo on Catherine's speaker there. I think one of the sites is single vision. If you guys my keyboard doesn't seem to be working. So Siegle vision, let me see how to spell that. OK They did a really good job of writing. See, you go. OK, here it is, you guys. Since I can't write it. Well, you know what, I can share the screen. Let's use technology and be smarter about this. Oh, come on. All right. Siegel vision, boom, there it is. These guys do a really good job, this is I forget his first name, I want to say Jonathan Siegel, but I don't remember, but he has a design firm called Siegel gale, and they do large branding work. They go head to head with Landon associates for four accounts like Kinko's and FedEx and things like that. So I think he retired and then like all people. Daughter like him. He didn't stay in retirement for very long, so he started another company called Skull vision, where he provides clarity above all. And if you read this thing, it's all about clarity, clarity, clarity, clarity and you don't see any logos here. You don't see any packaging, you don't see any websites. OK, so if you guys want to check out skull vision, that's a good place to start. I don't know any other ones just off the top of my head about firms that have positioned it well. But I think if you go to iddo. God, why is this a weird? All right, everybody got that single vision, and then I'll do iddo. Yes I appreciate this link because this is something that I'm dealing with as well. So they say it is a global company we create. What's interesting is that the work is almost like taking. Takes what? Oh, I can't hear you, Murray. I'm just saying that the seagull show work like they just they just tell what they do, like bring clarity, but they don't make work like the center stage. That's right. The deliverables, yeah, that's right. Yeah, exactly. So going back to the slide, you know, OK, let me stop here and go back to sharing. Here's my key note back again. OK, now to Mark's thing about positioning. This is a very interesting pyramid that can be used for lots of different things, you guys. If your site shows almost all manifesting making, well, that's what people are going to know you for and that's what they're going to call you for. So a site that shows all thinking, writing and planning. Well, that's what you're going to attract. Your position to be that kind of company. So it's nice to show sexy design, and people do want to see sexy design, but I think it should be buried deeper into your site. So we're going through another revise to our site as we speak. So I too would be spending some time this holiday season kind of thinking about our copy. So you're going to make it less about the work and more about the strategy because the last time I checked your site as like strategy, but then also shows beautiful identity work. That's right. Well, so that's right. So if you look at our landing page, our home page, I said to the guys, I said, you know, it's just it says, we're not confident enough. You have to just go full up. This is all we do. We're still relying on the sexy stuff. It's full screen. Yeah, it's beautiful, though. But I see your point. Thank you. Thank you. But what Gabby pointed out to me was, if you guys go to the capabilities, that's really what the landing page should be like. Reid, it's exactly what I was on, right when you said that. If you guys look at the capabilities, if you're there on blind, go to the capabilities you'll see it's like, OK, we're confident in our second page. We're not yet ready to bring that to the front, and that's what we need to do. But we've been working on our site forever, as you guys know. And I just told them we got to launch, you guys launch. We'll correct it as we go. OK, so that's what you guys see now. I want to share something with you guys. Go ahead. I can throw another site in the ring. It's Franklin Street design Franklin yeah, Franklin Street design there. The Wall Street consultant. And they actually list, which is kind of controversial, but they list their minimum engagement level right there on the site. Why is it controversial? well, it's definitely. It definitely helps for to weed out people, you know, sets the bar really high. But for some people that actually have more money than you think or. It uses that part of the conversation, which I like to ask, but. Is this right? Franklin Street is a health care brand consultancy. That's what I'm getting. It sounds like it. OK all right. I'll check it out later. Thank you very much. OK anybody else? All right, I want to share a couple of things with you guys in terms of. Well, I want to end this if this is our last call for the year, you guys, I want to end this in a really positive note. So why don't we just go around the room for anybody that's willing to unmute themselves and say something? Why don't we share like a small or big victory? I'd like to end on a really positive note. That's OK. It will. Good morning, sir. Maybe I can start it off. Back on a positive note. Let's do it. So it's actually through you and the group that we've managed to double our revenue here. So our monthly revenue right now, we'd shared some I we've shared some numbers before, but we're kind of on track. We have a revenue of a million this fiscal year. So positive all around. Thank you. That's awesome. Congratulations that's awesome. Awesome I hope you guys are the first one in this group to break the million mark. That's going to be huge win that. We're all going to be able to celebrate together. What is that? Is that like? Oh, you got to give it to hands, though it's kind of weird with like one hand, you're beautiful. Good job, you guys. We still need to charge more though, right? So and yeah, we can't be working until 1 o'clock every morning, you know? Amen, sister. Don't do that. Yeah, we're working. You know, we've got to take our victories. Let's take our victories and just celebrate, OK, like, let it marinate and just kind of bathe in it. OK, who's that? Who's next? Well, somebody else. I can go I've doubled my revenue as well, nowhere near where you are, but I'm still a single person shop, but I've doubled, which is great, but today was double the amazing double digit. I'm thrilled to death, but I'm still working my ass off and I need to. So today really hit me with the profit side. I need to increase my profit. I don't know if my profit is increased. Spend a lot of money on outsourcing that has not gone well. So I've wasted a lot and I've learned a lot, but I've still doubled. So that's my billable have kicks in. It might even be 2 and 1/2 times. I haven't done my final numbers, but that I'm thrilled. Woo-hoo well, awesome. Here's my clap for you. OK, now, Tracy, I want to say this, you guys. It's like you guys are the most strange creatures on the planet. Than victory and not apologize for it, please. And then undermined the hell out of it. Look, let me just replay the tape, you guys. Tina is like, yeah, we hit mealing, but we've got to charge more. And it was like, no, we're going to hit a million. Just kill it. Tracey comes in and says, you know what, we're going to double, but you know, it's not as big as somebody else's, like, who frickin' cares? Oh yeah, I know that I'm not as big as them, and that's fine. I'm thrilled with double double, double thrilled to argue you double. Yeah, right. That's it, just celebrated, dude. Look, I'm going to celebrate a win with you guys right now, I'm going to do it the way you guys do it. OK, you guys, for the first time in the history of our company. We're going to be agency of record for one of our clients. It's not as much as I'd like, but you know, I mean, really, no, it's pretty where agency and record you guys. And I asked the client yesterday, can I do a press release? Yeah, please do it. I think it'd be good for all of us. So I'm going to be typing up a little press release later. It's just us moving towards our goal. And here's what I know it takes a lot of effort to get to your first million to your first agency of record, but to get to your second million, it's like half the effort and to get your third million, it's like 1/10 effort. OK, so we all know we have these benchmarks to hit and all the resistance, the uphill kind of just climbing that hill. It's a lot of work, but when you get there, the next milestone, the next marker is that much easier. I'm looking for Tracy. She's celebrating. Well, the night also got a champion in a market he wants to. He wants to do case studies, introducing me to all sorts of people. So there's some really great snowballing that is already happening. And I'm positioned well for 2017. I feel amazing. Yeah all right. Somebody else, please celebrate a victory without apologizing. Let's do a couple more. Come on, guys, it's almost 9:30. The mindset. I got zero revenue, but I know where I'm going to be positioning my company. Well, that's great. You have clarity. You may be broke, but you got clarity, clarity. I'll take that exactly. That's better than being broken, totally confused and depressed. Can I share something to? Of course, is it positive? Of course, in parts of it. No, no, no, no, no, no. The twist, the twist is positive, I want to say I fired three to four clients this year early because they may be miserable. All four guys you work nation negotiate over $100 fucking $50 more or less, that type of guy. So I kind of just I just kick them out and come this summer. There was one project that all of a sudden exploded and kept us busy for months and was beautiful, about meditation and about spirituality and a beautiful website that a guy was open and welcoming. So it was a great twist, and that was my positive experience. Well, I love it. All right. Even mark paskin end on a positive experience. That's an amazing year, you guys. That's a big victory for all of us. You don't understand what it take for Mark to say something positive. So awesome. Oh, come on. Come on, come on. All right, we got. But we love you. But it gets it, gets it, gets your rates up. Every time I'm bitching about something, right? Last time it comes. Now you know what, mark? In all honesty, let me just say this, though a lot of your negativity fuels my positivity, so somebody is benefiting from this. And then I write an article about whatever it is I need to say to you, but I'm not saying it directly to you. I get my social media. It's a yin and yang. Yeah OK. Who's up next? Somebody else? Come on. I have a win. This is Tim. So Mary and I, we've finalized our financial plan for 2017. So we kind of know what our targets are going to be. We have a mission, we have a vision and we've had we have three kind of tentative clients in the docket. So it seems promising for 2017 and we're kind of tracking. So hopefully by the middle of next year, I'll have an office and I'll have a few clients to kind of keep that office in an agency, I guess. I mean, it's no longer just me, it's people now. So I'm very excited. Awesome congratulations, Tim. Congratulations that's a huge step. Yes, it is. We'll be there for you every step of the way, ok? There will be challenges ahead and we'll be there. This is the power of our support group. Who's next? Anybody else? Although gun to head, please. Thanks who is it? Who said I'll go a feminine voice. That was me. Hey, mace, go ahead. Oh, I just wanted to say. Well, with this group for about a few months now, but so far, just by listening to the videos on the YouTube channel, and then this was before. I've been purchasing core, just kind of feeling more confident to charge more and just have a bit more of a conversation with clients and not be afraid of being aggressive at times just because there is the art of the debate that you have to kind of learn to deal with, but just kind of taking away the designer hat for a second and just learning to think more about strategy, which has been very empowering. And I think I shared this on the group was I had my first big test when a few days ago, which was probably my biggest client. So far. So it was an 8k contract. So just seeing how that kind of big change kind of helped influence my design process has really been helpful. Just listening to a lot of the conversations, not just to read about them, but to see like impersonations and see how some of you guys also re-enact some of your scenarios has been very helpful and empowering. So thank you. Awesome I saw that post, and I'm so happy for you. I mean, $8,000 is a lot of money. I mean, I know I throw out crazy numbers at you guys, but every once in a while I do get kind of step back and like 8,000. That's like a Mac laptop. That's just a lot of things I can buy with that. That's rad. So happy for you. So next year is going to be a uniter, and I wish you know that I'm an instructor too, so I wish that design schools eventually teach from this book or other books that you guys recommend because it's really kind of like a big power struggle between like teaching design and then not being able to teach the business side of things. So I kind of wish that would eventually happen at Cal Arts Otis schools I went to. Yeah so your wish is going to come true, but maybe not in the form that you're asking for because I will be doing workshops on this and I will be doing videos that are released to the public so that people can get the information. I wasn't sure I'm talking. I'm going to be talking to Blair ends next year. You and I have been exchanging emails and things like that, and I think he's aware of who we are and what we're trying to do. And I didn't want to step on his toes because I think he teaches workshops and things like that. And I didn't want to be like, dude, you're jacking up my thing here, and I don't want to do that. So we'll see how he feels about it. But I want to disseminate the information. If anything, we help him sell a few books, right? OK, who else, anybody else? I'll go. Thank you, Amy. Hello I redesigned my website, so I feel like it matches my brand more and not just how it looks, but also the positioning and the clarity that I've gotten in joining the group. And that's my win. Yay Amy, what is your website. Again for everybody to look up later? Little trailers, little trailers. Excellent I'm happy for you, Amy, and I have something in here and my deck. Look at this Emmy. There it is. I'm making progress every day for me. You said you wanted to see more of it, there's more of it. Yeah all right. So what? What I'm doing here. There are a bunch of you guys that don't feel like core is what you want to do is too much for your clients and the things that you're doing. So what I've done is I've kind of stripped it all away. I've reduced it down to just what I think is important, and it's a totally different framework. And it's built off of something that I tried before, which is a personal branding kit that is out there in the wild. And the principles of this is to kind of help to understand how the why and the who not in that order, ok? And it helps you to write messaging. So I've tried it out and it works pretty well. And the thing that I'll tell you guys about this is that I've referenced this many times before on our calls about if you want to get a masterclass in marketing, all you need to do is look at Steve Jobs. Many people have made a career out of analyzing Steve Jobs. There's one thing in particular it's called here's to the crazy ones, OK, where he introduces the campaign to a small group of people. I've watched that many times now. And I've broken it down. I've taken the script from that ad and I've broken it down to something that I think is highly actionable that if you did this in front of your client. They would just their mind will be blown because you have essentially the best, sharpest minds from in the advertising world writing the script and it broken it down into a formula that you can replicate. OK, so those of you guys, so the whole thing this kid is now I call it agile branding, and people didn't like the way that it sounded, so I changed it. So it's just called brand messaging a fast framework for going beyond the logo and finding the voice of the brand. And that's it, I believe you could do this with your client in under one hour. Wow! should be super smooth, and you'll be able to write copy and I've broken down a couple of other ads and I'll do more. So they're just this will just get deeper and deeper as I go. OK So I'll show you what you can do as a graphic designer, and if you want to play in the branding space, something that you guys can use. OK, and the price point on this one, I'm not sure yet, but it'll be a lot less than core. Because it's just really stripped down and actionable. OK, so Amy, you you in particular like, I don't want to do all that stuff. Is there something for me? And this is almost like designing for you in mind? OK some can wait. All right. And when we that's it for me, you guys, usually when we roll into two hours, the whole thing crashes and my voice cuts out and all that kind of stuff. So I wish you guys all the very best. Happy holidays and have. If you're traveling somewhere, please be safe and I will see you guys in the new year. We'll figure out what the next call is going to be about. And I will post something online about what book we should read next and we can vote on it. OK the key will be for everybody to buy it and then read it. I already owned the books, so that's not a problem for me. OK all right, guys, I wish you the very best. See you guys online and in the new year. Happy holidays. I think.

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