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The Win Without Pitching Manifesto Pt.1

#
18
Chris Do
Published
December 21, 2016

In this 3 part series, Chris Do leads a keynote on one of the most influential books on sales “ The Win Without Pitching Manifesto ”

Read Transcript
All right, you guys, welcome to the future. This is episode 18, and today we're going to be talking about the win without pitching manifesto and I call it a book review or going deeper. But really, what we're trying to do with this particular call today is to help bridge that gap between reading the book and saying, yeah, that's a pretty cool idea. I can actually win a job and never pitch. That would be an amazing thing, but in the real world, does that work? And if you're like me, that title is kind of it feels like clickbait, like, is that possible? Especially if you work in advertising, which we've worked in and still continue working today? And it's like pitching is a necessary part. You can't enter the game unless you're willing to pitch. And so there's a lot of talk. I can't remember who was bringing it up, but somebody is like, well, if you really believe in, preach the win without pitching manifesto, Chris, why did you release a pitch kit? Does that even make sense? And so we're going to get into all that today. OK, so if all the new members or the people who are just tuning in for the very first time, we do these calls every single. Wednesday 8:00 AM. This is part of the pro membership. This is why I think you want to join and also the amazing group that we've collected here of people from all different backgrounds, from all over the world. And I love to see that you guys are working together, helping one another out. I found out recently that Aaron Pearson has been collaborating with Tina and they plan on shooting videos together. And I just want to create space for, oh, somebody like Mr Mario. All right, let's try to enter the room a little bit more subtly anyways, if I remember to do this, which I should the first Monday. Of every month, we're going to do call an additional call bonus call just for new members. That doesn't mean that if you're a veteran that you can't tune in, but this is just like an onboarding. Hey, Hello. You have questions. I have answers. I just want you guys to have space so you don't feel intimidating intimidated. I know that some people joining this group do feel that way about others, and we want to create a space for that. So I believe this is happening next week. Next Monday, we will do a call at 5:00 PM y 5:00 PM because some people are tuning in from somewhere besides America. And sometimes the 8:00 AM call is impossible for them to attend. It's like 4:00 in the morning somewhere else, right? So I'm just like, you guys know, next Monday, we'll do a call at 5:00 PM. All right. The win without pitching manifesto, if you watch the video that was posted in this group. Blair calls it kind of the 12 steps, and it was kind of funny. Like 12 steps is in the recovery path from alcohol addiction. Now I want to ask you guys really quickly here how many of you guys have read the book? Raise your hands. And how many of you guys have read the book more than once? Is Marshall doing this? It's a short book that I almost reread the whole book last night. I'm in the middle of it. Good less middle, more end. Thank you very much, guys. I don't know what's going on with you. Mario, I'm telling you this is one of the bedrock of what I know and how I'm able to do what I do. And it takes time. Are we doing this call? Well, I've had my staff read this book and then I have asked them afterwards, what do you get from the book? And they had a hard time telling me they just give me one of the 12 principles. I'm not good at like, you know, paraphrasing or quoting. I'm like, you don't need a quote just in your own words. Tell me one thing. And they struggled. So obviously, even if we read the book, which I trust that they did, if they told me they did. Like, what are we getting from the book? All right. So in outlining this thing, I realized there is no way we can cover all 12 points. So this is going to be chapter 1 and we will do chapter two, and I think we can do it in two segments like that. Now somebody has a good luck getting past chapter one, dude. Let's see if you can do that on one call, so we shall see. I didn't mean for this to be a 12 call series, but let's see what happens. All right, so here we go. So the first manifesto and maybe Mario was just waiting for us to read the book and then tell him everything, so he doesn't actually have to read the book. And that's totally cool because he's busy with school and things like that. The first proclamation that Blair writes about, and if you've never read the book, he writes, as in commandments like from god, thou shalt not or thou shall. So I'm going to strip away that kind of language. It seems a little bit over the top. I'm just going to say, you guys need to specialize and what does that mean? And it goes into the nature of who we are as creative beings. Now Blair will get into the psychology of creative people and that we like variety. Variety is the spice of life. We get bored, you know, and I get bored and my mind melts when I have to do paperwork, when I have to do accounting things, and if I'm designing a logo today, I want to design a building tomorrow and then a motion design piece and all that kind of stuff. All that stuff works against our ability to be perceived as experts. Now I use the word perceived because that's a big thing here. OK, now you might like to dress up in furry costumes and go to parties. It's totally cool, but the world doesn't need to know that, and the world needs to know what each one of you guys stands for so that they can figure you out really fast. And this is dovetailing into what? Mr Marty Neumeier will talk about in that we have space in our brain to remember kind of like one thing for each category. So if they're looking for a motion design firm or a branding firm or app developer, they kind of have one or two in mind and that's about how much our mind or brain is capable of holding in. OK and so when you're specialized? And well, you kind of get mixed up with everybody and we get caught in this place where we're just another bid. We're going to have to compete on price point, and this is one of Mark Porsche's main pain points. This is a big one, you guys. OK and so I want to talk a little bit about what does it mean to specialize? And if you guys and I want to do this as more conversation because I know this material. I feel like I'm living this material because as I was doing the summary for it, I started putting all a lot of new into chapter 1. I'm like, wait, wait, I got to spread this out a little bit because it's all been combined in my head and I have some things to add and things to clarify from what I understand from the book. All right. And just so you guys know, I'm not trying to take away sales from Blair. So if you like what you're hearing here, you should definitely buy the book. It's like $30. $27 OK and it's a great book, and Blair has a lot more materials. He writes pretty regularly on his website. He's doing what he says he's supposed to be doing, which is to share his expertise by writing. And that's what he's doing. And then he has very, I would consider like really expensive workshops or in-person coaching. And if Ben burns is on his call, one of his potential clients paid for this and their Billings went through the roof, I think. And if Ben burns is here, he can testify to that, but that's just what he shared with me. OK, do you guys understand the whole point of specializing because I see a lot of comments and discussions going on within our group like, oh, I want to do this, I want to do that, and why do I have to specialize? So maybe we should open this up if you guys understand this. And what your point of view on this, if it's different, if you're already kind of with it, you don't need to say anything. This is for the people who are like, I'm not sure what this means. I'm not sure how this applies to me or I just don't buy it, period, right? Who wants to say something? Is that mark? Mark, are you getting ready? Mark, Yes. Hi, I see you the cow. I have the camera still turned off. I'm feeling that. Not a good shape for that. But again, now you're still La Oh my God. Yeah, no, it's too early. I love the book. I mean, I was reading in the past couple of days and it was a flashback and about things that I've forgotten about. And he's so full of valuable points. It's mind boggling. So in regards to focusing on or specializing, it's I mean, my understanding is you can do it in two ways. You can specialize under certain, on certain, on a certain industry. Is that the horizontal? Chris, is that what you call the vertical, the vertical, the vertical? Or you can specialize on your offerings in terms of web design or branding or whatever. And to me, my what, my horse and what I'm looking for is probably more the industry because that's I feel this is where I can show strength. I have I have expertise in certain industries and I know I need to channel this. Break this down more into one segment that I'm really where I can show expertise. My problem is just how to pick this particular industry, because obviously we've been generalists, we are generalists. We can, we can, we can apply our service and our talents to many industries. So and this is one of the points where I'm struggling the most with how to pick one and then stick to it. OK and you just for people who don't know who you are, you do like startups, right? Tech startups. I used to. I'm not that crazy about anymore. I don't think this is really viable. So I would rather I'd rather shift the focus more towards manufacturing or like small mid-sized companies. I think there's better there's more potential than startups. Quite often there are cul-de-sacs, you do a nice job. And then they disappear or they go someplace else. If they grow, that goes someplace else or if they don't, then they're lost anyway. OK what size companies are we talking about? How many? What are their annual revenue? When you say small to midsize manufacturing, I would say 5 to 10 million, maybe 20 million. OK it's funny. You say that is funny. You say that, mark, because I've been transitioning into the same type of industry as well, and I was creating a whole brand strategy for that too. Yeah, Yeah. It seems like this is a more robust community and they have some, some experience in business experience. Quite often they don't have an in-house team for marketing, branding and rely on outside expertise and they are quite often overlooked. They're not as glamorous as like, OK, Nike or apple, because they only do parts for the airline industry or medical, whatever catheters or stuff that's really, I don't know, not popular or not really on top of everybody's mind, but there's often the million industry behind and and people appreciate it. I've had conversations with CEOs and CMOS, and they often appreciated the creative guy comes in and takes their business seriously. Sure so I want to just point you guys to this thing because I know there's a lot of new faces here, and maybe not everybody has had time to look at or watch some of the older episodes or previous episodes. And there's this thing that I want you guys keep in mind here. When you say five, first, $5 to $10 million, I was thinking they do not make enough money. But let me tell you why and we've gone through this before. So you guys understand the math, ok? A company is going to spend maybe 10% in marketing. OK, so let's do the math. We'll do it really easy. OK, so let's take. Can we go back into muting here? Mark, I'm going to mute you, ok? Oh, all right. If you're a $20 million company, if you take 10% of that. How much is that in terms of marketing, so a million is 100,000. And so 20 million is $2 million in terms of marketing, that's their annual budget, is my math ok? They do that right, you guys. All right. It's two million, so some mathematician, if I get this wrong, it's early in the morning, correct me, ok? All right. So $2 million. That's their entire marketing budget. Now a company like that's going to have internally, probably a CMO, chief marketing officer or a VP of marketing. And they may have one or two. In-house designers, this has been my experience. OK, now their salaries come out of that $2 million. So let's assume on the low end, they have one CMO and one in-house designer, creative type person. OK the cmo? What do you think they're going to make? Let's just say they make $150,000. Major market 150k. OK and the designer might make, say, 50k, so I'm using round number here because it'll help me with my math. So that's 200 k, and that means all their initiatives, everything they're doing in the entire year, it's going to have to be that $2 million minus at 200. So that's going to be 1.8 mil so far. So good, easy math. So far, no kind of find the square root or anything like that. No proving theorems. Nothing $1.8 million. OK, now you have to think about everything they need to do throughout the whole year. So let's say they have 10 initiatives and you kind of keep just doing this and over and over. And then you're going to realize how much money do they have left for Mark poche design for one initiative. That's why I keep telling you guys, if you're looking in the two to 3 to $5 million is not enough. 20 million begins to be like about the right number. OK otherwise, they're too small. Now you're not going to realize why Mark posh is not focusing so much on Start UPS, which he had been before, is if you get series A funding, you're like thrilled if you get a couple of million bucks, but that's the build up. That's not to build the marketing and the branding, so those are the guys that are focusing on UPS. Good luck. It's not for me. I wish you well. Where you can really hit it out of the park is you find the next Facebook, the next Snapchat. And they just love you to death, and they're loyal for you forever. But my experience has been this, and the reason why they might go quiet is something like this happens. Ok? the founders and partners find you and they love you and they work with you. And then they get series a, B and C. Somewhere in there they get big venture capital. Did they get that money? Because it comes with an advisory board with a deep network of people. So now, mark poche, design doesn't look so hot anymore when they can call pentagram, when they can call frog eido, because that's who they're going to call. And I've seen this happen, you guys, I've seen this happen to me, I was working my way in and then I bumped into pentagram and I knew it was not going to win that battle because Danny Meyer's guy believes in, you know, pentagram. I cannot fight that battle. And if you bring in big money, they start to tell you the reason why you brought me in here is because I have this amazing network and we're going to use the best. So guess what happens the MPD design? Goodbye so there's just another story, and I'll tell you this really quickly, so you guys can understand this concept, I was reading this in, I think GQ or esquire, and they said that why do some child stars have a difficult time transitioning into being an adult star? And they said that when they become part of the consciousness, the American consciousness, let's say, is when we freeze them in time. That's why Macaulay Culkin is stuck because we just see him as that kid. And that's it. All right, so some stars like, say, like, say, Adam Levine from maroon five, he didn't come in as a child star. As far as I know, he came in as an adult man. So he's going to have a longer career. Harrison Ford came in as an adult man, right? So this is kind of what happens now. Let's let's tie this back into you guys. If you come in to the company as that low cost offering that's going to help the company in the time of need. Well, guess who you are. You just became home alone. You became Macaulay Culkin. And it's sad for him. But that's just reality. And that's why I think a lot of these child stars like Britney Spears. What's her name? Miley Cyrus. They come out with his crazy sexual video and it's like, whoa, they're announcing to the world, I'm not that kid anymore. I'm tired of being that kid. And so they're rebranding themselves, and it's shocking to lots of people, and they lose lots of people. But those that can make the transition. That's what they kind of have to do. So just remember that, OK, I'm going to get into this about how you pick an industry now saying you're for small to medium sized businesses. That's a big claim. And it's so big, actually. Mario, from across the pond says, I have the same claim, dude. And if we had more people on this call, a lot of people would say the same thing. So you kind of have to figure out what makes us different and unique. The more unique we are, the less competition there is. This is how it begins. OK, so you have to pick a focus and I'll tell you how to pick a focus a little bit and then we have to consistently claim that thing. So don't change your mind. Don't veer off the plan, and Mr. ends, Blair talks about this pretty consistently in his book. Keep one course. OK, now. If you're moving into a new market, which many of you guys are going to have to do, you're going to sit there and say, Chris, while I can't claim that I'm an expert at that because I haven't done that well, that's the old catch. 22 And to that, I have to say this for every expert that's out there. They didn't they weren't born an expert at that thing. They all were amateurs at one point in time. But they made the decision to claim something and it kept working at it. And so that's totally OK. And this is where the build expertise to fill gaps comes in. So for a while, I was telling people where a brand strategy consultancy and we had no brand strategy. And hopefully on this Friday, we will launch our new site, and it's awesome. You're going to see that Miley Cyrus moment with a wagging finger and the tongue sticking out for us. We are going to reposition ourselves and we're going to put it out into the world. And we've been working on this and you guys are going to see some really cool stuff, I think. And how a bigger, slow moving company like ours can make that transition in a relatively short time. I would say about a year and a half. It's when we started to make this, OK, make this move anyways, so who should you focus on? What should you focus on? We were to have an episode in this. We talked about profiling your three ideal clients the line, your work, messaging and presentation to match theirs. It's a very simple thing. OK and I'm going to talk to Mark posh in a second about this, since he's been brave enough to talk, and I hope he doesn't mind. What should you focus on? We've done this before and you guys haven't done this. Watch that episode! OK, now, mark page, if you say you are now 4 and this might be a new shift or position change for you is if you're for small to medium sized manufacturing companies. If I were to profile some of their companies and look at them like the best in class companies, I'm pretty sure a lot of what you're putting out there does not line up with them. I know you personally like to do crazy deconstructed graphics, and I love seeing them. It's like art. But when I see that I was like, oh, you're speaking German and they're speaking Japanese, it's not the same. Something is not lining up and it should be like two gears, you know, two gears and they just seamlessly go together. OK the teeth on the gear have to be the same size, and it should be a mesh, and I'm going to briefly mention this story. One of my buddies who's very successful in all farm design. His name is Aaron. He was doing a lot of action sports, youth oriented brands, and it looked a certain way. And I always saw like someone who's more corporate quote unquote corporate work as being more beautiful, more timeless. And he resisted that almost until bankruptcy. He fought it out. He feels like no, and he had what I call the Peter pan syndrome. He wanted to be a 20-year-old graphic designer in the body of a 40-year-old man. And when that industry left him behind. And it was in decline, he didn't know what else to do. Luckily, he got a real estate gig, and it changed his company, and then he started doing a lot of restaurants, and he's doing really beautiful, amazing work now and he has seven or eight people working for him versus him working by himself. You have to realize the longevity of the market, and I'm glad that you're coming to this conclusion mark, or if you've been there, I apologize, which is we need to find a mature market that we can grow old with, and that's really important. OK, so phat industries are great because they're hot and then they're not. And hopefully you've saved enough money because you're going to be in trouble. OK, so everybody understands this idea, profile your three ideal clients. Look at the work, look at their messaging. Look how they speak. And you need to speak, how they speak, so the concept is very simple, it's called match and mirror. And two people talk about this, if you guys want to look this up after this. Please do so. Jordan belfort, who is the wolf of wall street, the guy who Stole millions of billions of from people, I suppose, with his penny stocks. That guy, played by Leo dicaprio, is a real human being. He has powerful concepts. He talks and Tony Robbins talks about the same thing match and mirrors a common concept, and it's about how you build rapport with other people. You guys understand rapport, you build rapport by building empathy and identifying with them, so the way you speak, the language, the tone, all that stuff matters. So this is why in the classic example comes from Tony Robbins, and he talks about this. He says that if you're from the south, you're going to speak with a southern drawl. You're going to speak a little slower. You're going to be like, really polite. And if you're safe from the big city like New York, you're going to talk really fast. My laminate it snap, snap, snap. You've you've got to go places and all that kind of stuff. So when these two people come together, they have very different ideas about one another. So the New Yorker says, you know, the southern guy is a little slow. Maybe it's not as bright. And then the surgeon guy says in the New York I, he thinks in his mind, you're always in a rush to go somewhere. You're missing life. You know, you're all flash. You're all whatever it is that's going on. So if you want to build rapport, you have to slow your talk down if you're speaking to the southerner. You have to slow it down, so we have to match and mirror who it is that we want to build a relationship with. That's really, really important. You guys understand that concept. Look it up. Tony Robbins. And if you guys bother me later, I'll include the YouTube links, the ones that I'm talking about. OK he's talking about building rapport. And Belfort does the same thing. And he has a story about that. OK all right. Here are the benefits, the reasons why, in case you know emotionally, you can't grapple with this concept. I'll tell you why. There's a sales advantage. Um, you win more often and choose when to compete. When you specialize, you command a price premium. And this is, you know, I should have put this in bold yellow and put fireworks around this. There's a price premium and you don't need to compete on price anymore. This is critical. Because there is no replacement for you. I feel this way. I believe it's I'm not just saying. I really do feel like there is no replacement for us. Yes, you can get somebody better than us. But it'll cost you a couple more zeros on what I'm charging you. So until that happens, I'm your only choice. I really feel that way. And I think some of my clients feel the same way. And I will share some stories with you in a little bit. OK and you get control, which is awesome. That means they don't tell you what to do. They don't dictate the price and the process. They don't get to dictate any of that. So a lot of reasons why you should specialize, and so I'm going to end this chapter on this quote. So Blair says we must simply choose to take control first by specializing in shifting the power back from the client towards us, and then we can begin to shape our future. So I want to open this up for some discussion and some dialogue here. So who wants to jump in on the specialized thing? Anybody I was just on unmute yourself and talk. Chris? yes, ma'am. Hi, it's Renita. I've heard at. Hi so yeah, as far as the specialization goes, I go through this cycle or process where I think of something and I've looked at manufacturing as well, and I see a lot of low hanging fruit there, a lot of bad design. I've looked at a lot of the management on their websites, and I'll see that they don't even have a CMO. They don't have a CMO. They don't have a marketing department. But then I start thinking like, I talk myself out of it. I started thinking, well, geez, I mean, this is out there and nobody else is specializing in this. Maybe there's a reason why maybe they just don't care about design. Maybe, you know, a lot of these companies are making a lot of money. They may be $20 million companies, 30 million companies, and they're doing it without me. So how do you kind of combat that? Are you talking about your own mindset? Yeah, I guess that that's partially it, because when I go into these markets and I say, OK, it looks like a good opportunity, but then I ask myself, why isn't? Why aren't there other marketing companies here? Why aren't there other agencies here in this space? OK, there's only one or two answers to that. As far as I'm aware, answer number one is the great one. You've discovered something that everybody else is not paying attention to, which means green pastures, deep ocean, deep blue ocean, right? Which is awesome. And the other thing is because it's not going to work here. So you have to kind of be very critical and understand. Am I biased in wanting to see what I want to see? Or is this something totally awesome? OK, now? We're doing work now with a large one of the largest tech, if you can call them startups, they're not really a startup. They're ginormous. Their valuation is with bs, you know, billions. OK and I know this for a fact. None of our contemporaries in the motion design space are here. So imagine if you were like, let me see here at what's a nice hotel in Las Vegas, you guys one of the best pricey ones. Somebody tell me what the Wynn, she has good taste. The win you're at the Wynn buffet and they just brought out everything is brand new and there ain't nobody there. It's good to be King. So while the other guys are asleep, focusing more on what they're doing in a dying market, we're going to feast. And we're going to gorge and we're going to gain expertise and we're going to build relationships that at some point for them, they'll just not be able to get in anymore. We all sit back and it's like, I've had pentagram cornered the market on this branding stuff. We could do that. How did fill in the blank company cornered the market on that, where they are in and they're in deep and they have a lot of evidence of this? Would you say that pentagram cornered the market only because they're huge in size that they can offer. So much stuff? The generalized instance specialized, they're not as big as you think. And they didn't start huge. Nobody just starts like I'm person multinational firm. No, I mean, yeah, right? So pentagram is smoke and mirrors, you guys. I don't know if you know this. It's a collection of a lot of independent shops and they share resources and you guys can become, you know, octagon if you want. You guys can just bridge it all together and call. But that's not why it's not your size. Because they choose to focus on very specific things, and they keep claiming that, and then they speak and then they write books and they're the Ceo's column because they're aware of them and they're dealing with all the high level c-suite executives. That's why. OK like when CNN or Vox or one of these companies wants to do a piece on if the Uber logo sucks or not? Are they calling Mario Rossi or are they calling chris? No, no, they're not. Where are they calling Michael babe ruth? It's always Michael, babe Ruth, I'm tired of it. I need somebody else. Call a woman for God's sake. Call somebody else. I get all your share. Right? yeah, Yeah. Another partner. That's what they do. So, you know, my business coach would tell me this. He's like, every time you see, see something on KTLA or NPR and they're like, we have expert from this thing. Well, how do these people get on this list because they're on that phone list, right? I would love to see some of you guys on that list next time I'm driving. I probably crashed my car. I'm like, oh, Amy Goodman, we have Amy to talk about the new Uber logo and like, what the drive off the PCH look amazing. That's about building expertise. So bernarda, to get back to you, I think you have to think, is this one of those things where you can feast? Or do you have those kind of rose colored glasses on? OK and if you find more. Pardon me, John, I want to read you, John, please. Please do. He said he looks to Maslow's hierarchy. Mm-hmm And he looked to what humans will need the most and what will always be around for him. He felt that the restaurant space is a good space for him. What do you what do you feel about that comment? Yeah, that's a good question or a comment. And my buddy is doing really, really well kind of cornering the market on restaurants. He does all the premium things and all the premium restaurants in l.a., not all, but a lot of them, and they're owned by restaurateurs. So when you get in, this is a good sign. Ok? when your client has multiple brands or companies, it's an umbrella corporation, if you will. And so you start servicing one and then they hire you from 14 more. And they're all different. So you're going to be busy for a really long time. I'm going to have him on our podcast. He literally said this to me the other day when we were exercising. He it, Chris. I don't want any more work. I can't take on any more. I'm like, shut up, dude. I'm a slap in the face. I'm going to put you on the podcast. You're going to get some haters. I can't believe you're telling me you can't take any more work. What is wrong with you? That's what he's saying. I just can't field any more work. OK that's a business management thing, and I said, you know, I made that mistake once in my life, I will never do that again. When work comes, you build the company around it because when it goes away, you'll be sitting there and thinking, I shouldn't have milked that for everything I could because you're hot for a time and then you're not. And you're being very kind of shortsighted. Thinking that it's going to last forever, because guess what? You're not forever, and the person that was forever before you is no longer forever, because then you just took all their work, ok? It's happening. All right. So Renata, I hope that kind of gives you some guidance. If you if the company you're looking at, nobody is there and it's a big Umbrella Corporation. I doubt that that's the case. And they have all these subbrands, amazing fashion works that way. Food works out way. A lot of companies are owned by other company. Media companies are that way. So once you're in to say like Viacom or AT&T or GE. That would Brazilian companies. Those are great places to be. OK anybody else? So when Marty Neumeier talks about trends, you know, is it good to kind of like, see a trend and then follow that and then specialize on that trend? Well, you're kind of asking the question. Missing some context. I know what you're talking about. Marty says that people, if you can tap into trends movements, your brand becomes more powerful. So when you're branding companies or you're branding yourself, tap into trends. Now he's not saying follow a trend like frozen yogurt. That's what we talking about. Like, there is. What are some of the trends today? Sustainable living, eco friendly, all those kind of things. Those are trends, right? And if you have enough of them, they power a movement because, you know, if you have a parade of one person, it's kind of boring and they power you, ok? That's the kind of trend he's talking about, or a little bit different, I think, than the way you phrased that question. OK Yeah. Yeah, that's it. OK, so right now, I think there is this is not a trend anymore. About how to engage users, customers, communities online through social media. Everybody is figuring out and this is a true trend now is the next evolution of that virtual reality or is it augmented reality because they just want to keep building their community? So if you're out in front and you know how to do this, you'll be powered by that. That's why a lot of companies switch gears and jump into emerging technologies, and they'll have success for a while. Unless they learn how to do it well, OK, I have a question, Chris. Yeah Sean, when we talk about specializing, it seems like we're talking about two different things. I think Mark talked about this specializing in an industry or trends or specializing in a service like when I look at pentagram, you look at their clientele, there's not one specific industry that they're specializing in. They're specializing in the service of branding. And so I mean, when we talk about specialized things that like what we're talking about specializing in either an industry or a service, I think the more narrow you can kind of make your focus, the better off you are. So when I said and I said this before and I said, if Mark picks what is a manufacturing small to medium sized manufacturing companies, which are a lot of. And I said instantly, Mario said, I do the same thing. Not very special because it's only a call of 40 people. So he has to say within that, what is he offering that's so different in unique? I mean, honestly, if you can walk away from anything that we talk about today, if you can say I can own that space and nobody can compete with me, you're done. That's what you want to do. And it's hard to do that, obviously. So you can say medicine is a specialization, but then if you say I'm an ear, throat and nose doctor, whatever they say, right, that's even more specialized and I'm just a throat guy. For celebrities that are athletes. How many of them are there? That's what I'm talking about, you see. It's just you're just chopping that into it becomes so refined. It's just that one thing and it's our insecurity. It's our added that we want to try to do everything. And it goes to hurt us. It goes. Chris Chris connector. Can I throw something in right now? Quick I found it's helpful if you go to a site like chamber of Commerce and you pull a list of industry sectors, then that gives you idea what's actually out there. We quite often we only have a very abstract idea of what, what, what, what industry means, what manufacturing means. There are sometimes quite like even if you pick a topic like medical or software development. I mean, there are so many subcategories it's mind boggling. And if you pull a list and just go through and maybe even create something like a scale from 1 to 10, I'd like to I can see myself working for those kind of industry or for that sector, then it gives you a better idea of what actually your interests are. I found this because we often have just this vague idea. OK, I want to help companies within this the tourism sector help with their sales. But right, it might be a really just as a subcategory like just tourism in love year or something. So you guys go to visit your chamber of Commerce and look it up and really twirl down that list until you're like, oh, I didn't even know that was the thing. And then there you have it. But there's another way to do it. And it's a little less technical. I want you to go to your bathroom. Open the door and walk in there and stare in your mirror and ask yourself, what do I love doing? What do I know a lot about? What can I see myself doing all day and night, night after night? Oh, OK. I like working with this type of person, and Amy Guzman knows. I think she knows who she likes to work with, right? And I have certain passions. So if you think about this, guys, there's one way to kind of figure this thing out. If money were no object, if some kind of great uncle that you didn't know existed passed away and it was, it wasn't kind of some scam, I sent you a ton of money. Now you have no more need to make money in Maslow's pyramid is kind of taken care of, so you're going to go to the top self-actualization. Well, what is it that you love to do in your free time, like if money is no object? Well, the answer for me, I like mixed martial arts. I like to go fishing, I like traveling. I like talking to people I like teaching, I like to learn, I like to read watch videos. Those are things I love to do. Is there any sense, so that's why you work with always. OK well, I'll tell you, I'll give you that answer in a second. I'll give you. Yes, you're right. Do you think there's any coincidence right now that on a Wednesday at eight, 43:00 a.m., we're in a room virtual room with 40 people doing what? Talking about a book that I read, sharing what it is I know and trying to help you guys. I'm doing exactly what it is I want to do. And the more I do that, the more of an expert I become. And I say this genuinely, you guys, I am always shocked when somebody of note somebody really important. I'm like, Oh my god, you're watching her channel. I better get serious with this stuff and like, oh, we love it. OK that is really cool. So I'm building expertise in doing the thing that I love, and nobody's here because I think, OK, look, I teach I've been teaching for a long time, but I never got paid enough money to do that. But I thought, I think I'm a pretty good teacher. I think I do this differently. I bring a crazy kind of energy and kind of playfulness when I teach that puts people on edge in a good way. I'm not some boring stiff guy who's going to do a PowerPoint and just talk you through it. I'm going to engage with my students, so this is exactly what I'm doing. So whatever way solves your problem, whether it means going through the Chamber of Commerce and distilling it down to some kind of Nugget like boom, I love that market. That's awesome. Or going just really like, look in the mirror, literally, figuratively, whatever. What do you love to do in your free time? Make a giant list of that. I'm about to release a worksheet that's going to help you guys. It's called my. I think it's called the five power spheres when you can identify all those things. The thing in the middle is what you want to do, and there's a market there for you if you're brave enough to go after it. And now to answer mariel's question or statement, is that why I'm working with oli's? Well, yeah, I work with people I like. I'm there fishing, I'm giving them my money. So I have this philosophy. OK, very simple. I give you money. I want my money back. What do I do to get my money back? I want it back. OK, so I have multiple stories on top of stories, ok? I've watched and purchase almost every single UFC pay per view fight since the beginning since UFC one and there are like UFC 200, I've stopped recently. So I've spent a lot of money. So guess what, we were working on spike on The Ultimate Fighter main title. The show opened in promos. And we did that for three or four seasons. I got some of my money back. And they flew me out. You know, backstage, I'm like, this is amazing. I got to meet all the important people. This is pretty awesome because that's one of my passions and my passion and my interest and my level of expertise. Impress the client enough like, wow, this kid, this guy knows his stuff. Let's hire him. With all these on their fishing, I'm like, you know, you guys, if you need help with sales and marketing, it's kind of what I do. That's what we're doing. OK I've given a lot of money to my financial advisor every single year, and then now he gives me clients see how I do this. I take my money back. There's this idea. It's called reciprocity. It's one of the principles of influence from Dr. Robert Cialdini. OK I do something for you. You reciprocate and you can't help but to want to reciprocate because we don't want to be leeches. So I've heard people say, you know, in the spirit of reciprocity, Chris, I'm like, excellent. Right? so we were buying a very expensive server in the tens of thousands from our client, and then they needed help with marketing. That's right, I took my money back. It was like, here you go. Thank you very much. And we got our server set up and we got more money. So you see how this works. So each one of you guys have a hobby and interest and activity, something that brings you great joy. Why not do that? And I have to say Ian's, I got amazing home. All right. Hey, Chris. Yes, sir. How do you feel about specializing around values like within an industry like you find an industry that you want and you specialize further by them having and sharing the same values and thoughts that you kind of have? That would be a total alignment, right, if you like the industry and you share values. That's a win. That's a home run. Now I want to say this because I'm glad you said that. All right. Is that if you know your values what you stand for? That's about position right there. Because people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it right? So you buy and support that, people who believe what you believe. So if you have no belief, you have no values, which everybody has belief that and values, it's the fact that they just don't know what they are and they can't communicate that. So the better that you can communicate that, the better you are. So it's like time to get to know yourself really well. OK, sounds good. Yeah did you get a new Mike daniel? Yeah nice. The Yeti is at the Black Friday special Cyber Monday night. Well done. Well done. You saved like 30 bucks on that. Good job. OK all right. Somebody said, good luck getting out of the gate with specialization, and I'm happy to stay here even though I'm prepared to go to number five. So what do you guys think? Any other questions or thoughts, guys? And we get to see. Go ahead, Noel says that she's trying to find where she's going to specialize because she's been everywhere for the past 10 to 15 years. That is, join the group. This is like an entire group of people who I'm pretty sure share the exact same sentiment, Noel, you're not alone. But this is the beginning of a new chapter for you. To understand the importance of specialization. I always saw some of our competitors in the motion space who did like one thing like cool fashion, forward moving animation, and they did really well. Or somebody did sell animation and that was really awesome too. Or somebody would do super technical 3D simulations, and they did really well. We're just trying to catch it all. And we did all right. It allowed us to survive, but never thrive. It's time to socialize, and we get to see a piece of nature through eons tour, that was pretty awesome. Well, Chris, I got a quick question. This is Tim, Tim. Yeah, so I come from also a visual merchandising background, and I love it. I like to go into stores and make these really cool experiences that are kind of more kind of introverted. They don't they kind of sell to you, but they do it and these cool ways with like personality and that type of thing that when I talk to people that I know in the industry, they say, well. Are you sure you want to do that? It's almost like they want to talk me out of it. So and sometimes I'm trying to stay focused on a target. I'm like, well, maybe they're right. Maybe I maybe I shouldn't do that. Maybe it's too saturated. Or it's too kind of like most people that do visual merchandising. They work internally for there, and there's no external visual merchandising companies. And I just I'm just trying to figure out on that specific thing. Do I listen to all of the wisdom or do I just go ahead and start knocking on doors and. I guess that's one of the things that I want to kind of at least eliminate, so I'm not great. So if I understand your question is that people that are in that space are Warning you don't get into this space. That's correct, Yeah. So I would listen to them as much as I want to get in that space. Ok? because let's say you're a young motion designer right now and you come to me and you're like, Chris, I want to do motion design. I do. Don't do it. I'm here, I'm getting out. See you later, and you're like, no, I'm going in, I'm going in and we'll leave you. You will be where I was, and it'll be even worse. But if you're a young motion designer, I would say to you, create content, teach people. So little stories. Yeah, so the thing is that I have, you know, working for one retailer for 15 years, I have a lot of experience. So talking to people that when I say that I want to start a company that specializes in visual merchandising, they're like, I don't know how that would work because and that's coming from their perspective that most of the departments, there's a department, it's not really an agency that kind of specializes in that. And the ones that I've actually looked at are like fame, retail and others. And you know, they don't really, you know, they're kind of hard to understand. They kind of they focus more on kind of like selling matrix as opposed to actual visual design. OK and so, yeah, I guess they're saying it right? I just I wish I just wish you had a better answer because it's something that I love doing. I do it all. But I think you want a better answer to that supports the narrative. You want to believe your definition of better. Not like the truthful or it hurts. It hurts. Tim, we will cry later together. We'll have a group cry and it'll be cool. OK, we'll break the world record. Well, on a more positive note, I, you know, I have identified that strategy and identity are the two things that I think I can plan. I just haven't identified an industry that I want to kind of rock and roll. And so here's a tip. Guys, I'm going to try and turn somewhat Downward thing into a positive thing. When you go into a company and you're talking to whoever is doing that work and you're trying to sell into that right? You can just ask them, like, what are some of your pain points? And they'll tell you if one of them is and we have so much work, we just don't know what to do or. We work with agencies and they just keep breaking promises. Or the work is never as good as we hoped it would be. Right, if you hear one of those opportunity. Once this overflow, one says dissatisfaction, frustration with the vendor, one says, I aspire to do better work if you're not hearing one of those things. It's time to go somewhere else. So you can ask that to believe it or not, when you go into an internal company and they have a design department of one or two, they feel threatened by you because they feel like management's going to hire you. So the way you get the work? Is you don't present yourself to be a threat. And, you know, if you guys ever send out work, I would love to be that person to help you. Oh yeah, yeah, we do send out work overflow. It's called overflow. you have overflow work, I'd love to help you with that. But then build that relationship. So there's a way to come in to get work without being threatening, you have to remember that everybody is concerned about job security and fear is a big driving force in us. OK just think about that. Everybody understand that care taught me that it's like I can use that. Call overflow. All right. Let's try to tackle. Numeral two. OK replace presentations with conversations, and this is going to tie back into what we talked about last week a little bit. See, I've been like living the philosophy. I just didn't realize it was all kind of in a step by step thing. Because somebody had said, you know, I submitted a bid. I did all this work and then they just went with somebody else sucks. And I realized I was overpriced or they just went with somebody who was a fraction of my cost. So what the heck are you doing a bid for then you should already know the price. So here we go. The rules of collaboration, say states that we must do strategy before development. And we must always and continuously reference the strategy, do not deviate from it, and we must have the freedom to execute in the way we want. And we will do fewer options, a better quality. And we must always present our own work. Now these are great rules, we don't even live by these rules. The important part is to remember this. We want to talk. I don't want to build a proposal because, as Blair says, we're not in the proposal writing business. OK I don't know if I put this in the right spot here, but you guys understand this thing. All right, so let's talk about this. If we run through a typical buyer buy sell cycle with a client that's on the line. They're going to ask us to put together a bid or proposal. And Blair's attitude towards that is it's because they're lazy. They don't you're undifferentiated. They can't figure out between companies a, B and c, so they ask for a pitch, a proposal. A bid, an estimate. OK, so now I'm going to answer that question about how it is that Matthew and the future can release a pitch kit and yet still out of the same mouth and breath, I said, try not to pitch you guys. And I'll tell you why. OK, let's get into that. All right. So when we're dealing with client direct meaning I'm in a relationship with the decision maker, there's no third party. I get to determine the rules. OK And I get to say we do not pitch, and for companies that we work with directly, we do not pitch. Or we rarely pitch, I'm going to say less than 5% I don't know, I can't remember. I just leave that because it's like to say always or never is kind of too bold. Ok? and clients will. Tried to force you and redirect the conversation back into you pitching, because they're saying, how can we tell what you're going to do? How do we differentiate? So this begins your expertise part. You're going to talk to them. You're going to show how different are with words. And that's really critical. OK, so now some of you guys are like, Oh my God. What I'm going to do because my confidence comes from my ability to execute, not for my ability to articulate and to ask questions and all that kind of stuff. So this is kind of where we need to learn new skills. And you guys have already made a good decision to be a part of this group because this is we're going to learn a lot of these skills. And is a safe place for us to learn and the cost of which. Is low, meaning when you screw up on a potential job, that's thousands of dollars that you're losing on. So it's good to do it here in a safe place and refine your game. OK, now I'm a little hesitant to. Go off script here, because, like I said, I've merged it all my brain, and I'll have to unpack it and kind of follow the framework, so I don't confuse you guys. And so we'll kind of just keep moving on here. You guys understand this here. How do we replace presentations with conversations? Well, let's turn over to you guys. Let's talk about a common request that the clients have that require you to do work. Somebody throw out one for me, please. Yeah um, I'll throw you one, please. You guys, if you don't say anything, channel will take all the time and that's totally OK. OK, so it's happened a couple of times to where people come to us for just like, hey, I want xyz designed for us. And they don't know about brand strategy or building up to a solution or anything. And then we have a conversation about that and say, and sometimes it's a little overwhelming. So they want us, you know, can you put all that in a proposal like in something written so that I could talk to the other people that are going to be involved in this decision making process? OK, can you guys hear sean? He's a little hard to hear, but can you guys hear him a little bit? OK, so basically saying they're like, great, great, whatever you're saying, sounds great to me. Can you put that together so I can have a conversation with my partners, my whatever the powers that be? That's a very common request, right? I see a lot of people nodding. It's like, yeah, it's a very common request. And so how should you respond? That's the question I've got. Add to that. You can offer to speak to those people directly. OK, hold on. Hold on. Yes, you can. Let's Ian had his finger up first. So Ian, go ahead and then Fernanda. Yeah, this is just kind of an add on to what he's saying. So we had a client very recently, Greg Auman and he the client that we were working with was our go between. And she didn't understand branding or strategy or anything. And she was very adamant that, you know, Greg Auman has been around for 50 years. He has his brand. I don't need any help with this. You know, they had no goals for their website. They just wanted a pretty website, and it was very difficult for her to sit down and go through a discovery process. She felt very uncomfortable talking about Greg's brand. She thought that, you know, he would call bullshit on it. So it was very difficult for me to kind of educate her in the importance of, hey, I'm just trying to get a 360 degree view so that I can whittle down and do my design as best as I can. Mm-hmm But it was difficult for her to set goals and set expectations, and it was difficult for me to educate her in the importance of it for us as designers. Perfect now you know this number. Number five, here you guys see number five on the screen. We present our own work when there's an intermediary. All that stuff gets thrown away. Because people can't speak with confidence as to what you do, and no two people are going to present the work the same way. This is why, like when we work with an agency who's an agent for the client, we lose all control. They get to dictate the terms again. That's why I always say the two. There's two different companies within blind in two different sets of clients, the ones we work with directly, and we have a different relationship. And the ones that there's an agent in between. OK, so just remember that for a second. Now, Vanessa, go ahead and respond to the request. Go ahead. You have to unmute in that you can. Yeah, that you can offer to speak to those other people, you know, along with the original person that you were speaking with. Right? you know, instead of doing all of that work and putting it all in a document and just do what the win without pitch and says, you know, like replace pitching with words, you know? OK, so then they're going to tell you pretty. I can see it happening already. Just speak for Sean. They're too busy. I just need the document. Is that where the one pager comes in? Potentially so here's what I'm going to tell you guys, this is what Blair tells you to do. He's going to tell you, we're not in the proposal document producing business, we're in the brand strategy space. So before I go and do any of these things because it takes time for me to do. Let's talk about your project a little bit. OK, what's the budget? And I'm skipping ahead here. Now I'm moving into I'm trying to kill this thing. I'm not going to let you dictate the terms. We have to wrestle control from the client in a very friendly way. OK this is where I can't remember who in our group. And you get an identification find yourself if you want where they're like, oh, I put the bid together and it was a lot of work. And then, Oh my god, they went with a little bit and we were like out of the price range. So what I want to do is ask for small concessions or get little pieces of information because they start to build commitment. Oh, put together a big document. Oh, OK. Sure, sure. But what are we talking about in terms of budget? OK, and then they'll tell you this is the conversation part. Who's making this decision? What criteria are they basing this decision on? This is the stuff that Matthew talks about in the pitch get quite a bit. There's a whole script. OK how would you be, judge? How many competitors are there? Are we the last call? Do you already have a favorite? Because we like to be the inside track. And if we're not, you know, I just put some numbers together and it's going to be pretty generic, so at least you have your third bid, but you got to understand I'm a small business owner and I don't have time to build bids for people that aren't serious. No, no, we're really serious. The budget is 200,000. You're the last call because we weren't happy with the first two. Oh, OK. Then there's the next step. And it's deeper down in this deck. The next step is to give them that document. Now, if we know our process. And we're experts, we should already have this document created, the first time you make is a lot of work, you'll sweat bullets, it's going to take you days to put together. And the next time you put it together, it'll take you minutes. Because it's already put it together. And what we do, and we had this conversation with Rachel Elna and Michael Stinson is like, oh, we hate doing our face, we hate them like, I love it. It's a template. I pick one of the four I've already made. I change certain parts to tailor it to the client, and I'm done. So, yeah, it does take me time to like, HMM, I like this one a little bit more. And then it's done. But it isn't like I'm writing answers to questions. I'm not doing that. OK, so that's the conversation part. I want to know a lot more. I want you to keep committing. And if I feel like it's not right, I'm leaving. And that's where. This blue card comes in. To have an honest assessment between the client's needs and your expertise to determine the fit. And I'll get more into that. So far, so good, you guys, this is how you replace it with conversations, you just ask them more questions until you figure out this is or is not something worth putting some time towards. Don't go running out of the gate. And the more I reread his books, there's a lot of overlapping concepts. But I think it's important for me to just state to the framework right now. All right. So here we go. Number three diagnosed before prescribe. This is critical. Diagnosed before prescribe, because he said in every single professional industry like lawyers, doctors, dentists, if you just wrote a prescription that would be malpractice, but in design, that's the most common thing to do. So here we go. Uh, here are three or four points from that chapter prematurely diagnosing the problem undermines your expertise. OK, you guys understand that, right? I'm pretty sure many of us are guilty of this. The clients are talking, I already know what you need. Darling, I know what you need, it's like this. Um, many people well respected within this group do this all the time. You need an app, you need an app, you need a website. Well, what if I don't need a website? Well, you need a website, you really do, and you get into the convincing part of it because you walked in the door with the answer before the problem was even revealed and you didn't spend time asking the questions. So experts also do not let clients self-diagnose. Um, I don't I'd probably screw this quote, but. The attorney that represents himself has a fool for a client. Because you lose objectivity. And you do not spend all your waking moments thinking about SEO content, marketing, conversion funnels. You you don't spend all your time thinking about branding brand strategy. App design, app development, you do not there any different business. Otherwise, that's the business that they don't need to hire you for. OK point number 3 is when you diagnose it requires time and you need the freedom to do it the way you want to do it. You have your own process. OK, so here's the thing. They want you to put together a proposal because they don't want to talk to you. Because they don't have time to think through the problem, so they're being lazy. So when we're pitching or when we talk to clients, I tell them up front. John and Mary, we love to work on this project. We love what you guys stand for. We have a process that requires us to have a conversation. It's going to take. 30 to 45 minutes, do you have that kind of time like, oh, well. Unless we really understand the problem, we don't think we can produce a solution or proposal that has any real meaning to you. OK, let's do this. And my producers. Have told me before it is uncomfortable when I do it, it's uncomfortable that I asked the questions that people are too scared to ask. And I just ask I ask, what's your budget? They squirm and squirm, and then I box them in. How will you decide? All they squirm and they squirm and boxed them in. And afterwards, like, wow, like once you get past the resistance. You've asked questions that nobody else we've talked to have even asked. You made us aware that we didn't think through the problem that we're just going to tell people what to do. Now I know you guys can relate if you've ever worked with a freelancer when you're really busy. What do you do? So I need a logo for the client and it's like, here it is, go. Read the brief. And what happens? Later today, you check in on the work, it's horrible. Then what? What do you do? Do you blame yourself or you blame the designer? You blame the designer because we don't like to take responsibility like, Oh my God. Oh, I thought you were good. How did you make this good and you're not good and just go home? I'm not going to pay you. You say all those things. Now you're the client in that case. So think about it from the other side. OK, so what is the freelancer said, hey, boss, I know you're really busy and I know you have a meeting to go to. So we need a schedule this for another time. Maybe I should go home today. Cause I don't want to Bill you for work when I don't understand the problem. Like, OK, OK, OK. Are you comfortable with that? Or you go to your meeting, you come back at a certain time and I'll think through the problem a little bit. And I'll have more questions to ask you, is that OK now if you're the boss when you respect that person much more like, wow, I'm underpaying this young person, they're going to take over my job pretty soon. That's a smart, you know. They weren't out there just to rush to make stuff and in their insecurity, we just go make stuff. So just think about that relationship. So when it goes wrong. And you're the vendor, not the client. Who do they blame when you produce ideas or proposals that are out of scope and off the mark? Who are they going to blame? I know they're not going to play themselves. That only leaves one other person in the room. And that would be. So it takes time, and I tell people up front, do you have 45 minutes to talk to us? If not, I totally understand. We're not the right company for you. I'm going to recommend you to Johnny down the street. So we're killing the engagement again. OK please. That 45 minute discussion is not core. This is where you're getting a 30,000 foot view. Um, I don't want to get too tactical, but you're correct, it's not core. And I want to put a brand on it, but I guess it's precor just about how to have the conversation with the client, I'm going to give you some of that right now. So just hang in there with me, ok? But it's not core the number one thing that we kept hearing from people who are running cause it's like, oh, how do I sell it? I can't sell it. I can't convince clients to pay for strategy. can't. I can't. So I started working on something that was a solution on how you can sell strategy, but I don't want to turn this into infomercial. OK, so let's keep going. Hey, Chris, I have a question, please. About self-diagnosing. So what if you have a firm and you specialize in web design or app design, and then the client comes and says, I need a website, aren't you? Aren't they self-diagnosing? And by you positioning yourself as a web design firm? Aren't you like asking for clients to self-diagnose, aren't you? You know what I mean? Yeah like, if you sell shoes and something like, I need a pair of shoes. Yes we're a match made in heaven. Yeah but then you're just a shoe manufacturer at that point, right? For and some days I'm going to buy a Nike and then on some days I want to buy an Adidas or converse and all the brands in between. I have no allegiance to any one of them. There's one company that does it different. What company is that? New balance. Do you ever go into New Balance store? OK, this is what happens when you go to a New Balance store. OK, I've done this before because they can't compete with sponsorships and like flashy advertising, go to New Balance store and you're like, I want that shoe. OK, great. Let's measure their foot here. What? let's look at a posture. Oh, you know what, your left foot is a little higher. And you have an instep or whatever they call it. This terms of use, so every shoe they make has like 35 variations. Oh, right. So it's just not the colors and the graphics and the way it looks. So you didn't know that about new balance, right, and Tim does I think he was nodding. So New Balance is a different kind of shoe company, so they personalize it. Well, they're trying to treat, they're trying to diagnose before they give you a prescription. They're looking at you, right? And they're like, you know what? You need to get this job. So they have lots of different ways of modifying the shoe, so it's going to not hurt you. You buy the wrong shoe, it's going to hurt you. You know, make whatever problem because, you know, we're not perfectly symmetrical. Most of us have one leg that's a little longer than the other, but our shoes are exactly the same. So that's why we have hip problems. We have spine problems, we have posture problems, all these kind of things. So what they'll do is they'll say, like they'll put a gel in one shoe, a pad that's a little higher or bigger than the other to try to balance that. If you do that wrong, you make the problem worse. So they do need to know what they're doing. OK, so you're in the shoe business and it's a fashion accessory, really? And then you buy Tom's. Which isn't selling shoes at all. They're selling like goodwill. One for one. You buy a shoe and we'll donate a pair. So guess what they've done, they've done a good job of communicating what they believe in their values, so that's Daniel's question. They're their shoes are kind of ugly. But they've grown like gangbusters, and they're kind of the poster child for the one for one concept. Amy, you're deep in thought right now, or are you reading comments? No, I'm just so then. So then if you have a firm and you're like, oh, we do design should, according to this win, without pitching, you're going to be catching a lot of clients that have already self diagnosed, correct? So what should you do? I'm going to tell you. You say great. We're talking, we build amazing websites, but let's make sure you need one. Who are you, users? What are their needs? What is driving this initiative? A lot of clients come to us and they ask for a new website when they're really looking for is a makeover. They just want a refreshed graphics, which I can do. I'm happy to do that. But do we want the site to do more? And to do that, I need to understand what it is that's driving this. And the way that I do it is through discovery. And I charge $20,000 for the diagnosis, part. The discovery cost $20,000. Is that something you comfortable doing great and then you have them? So I don't sell. The product that I make is what does I do? OK, so design is not the solution, it's the process. I make lots of things, I don't sell any of that. I'm selling my expertise. Can Amy is like, what the hell are you talking about? So I want you to process that. OK, OK, I want you to process that because I make commercials. I make music videos. I make lots of things. Our company makes lots of different things, but it's not what we're selling. We're selling you the roadmap on how to get to your goal. And whatever it looks like. We can do where somebody else can do it doesn't matter to me. And almost always, it's us. So it sounds like that conversation, that initial conversation is going to be more challenging if you haven't positioned yourself or put it out there that your firm specializes in strategy, or that every engagement comes with strategy or something. So I think for a lot of us, if we only put the end result out there in our website and our marketing and our social media everywhere, then that's I think the conversation is going to be more challenging as opposed to if the conversation you're having on your website and everywhere else in your positioning involves that strategy aspect. Yeah here's where you can look at it like the. In the retail space, again, let's go back to the shoe analogy, ok? If you went to a brand like Puma or converse or anyone and all they showed, you were shoes. That's all. You're buying the shoes. OK, so the great company is going to put this layer on top. They're going to talk about a spirit they might make what they call an anthemic film. We're at 60 seconds of you feeling great. Um, and Kickstarter campaigns are really good at doing this, like why are we doing what we're doing? Well, we realize there's this need in the world and there was a problem and we tried to find a solution for it. And guess what? We couldn't find the solution. And they're showing you in that video. They're showing your problem, your frustration. So this is what we came up with. Introducing Amy Guzman, you know, blah blah blah, whatever it is that you're doing. And this is why we think this works, because brands have personalities or whatever it is, you want to say. because people don't fall in love with corporations, they fall in love with personalities. That's Yo's thing, right? Mm-hmm You understand so you you need to add a layer of story on top and the delivery vehicle is you kind of push it to the bottom now when you're talking about that, like actually, how do you apply this? So on social media, you're going to put out the glossy, beautiful stuff because that's your lead magnet, because people love beautiful designs. They love amazing visuals. But once they get to your site. They have to learn about your process. This is where you write and you create content around that. Makes sense. Yeah, because that's kind of boring to look at on Instagram. You're going to get like two likes on that. It is kind of boring. So you get in with the sexy stuff and that's how you use your social media, you guys. Whether it's on Twitter or on Instagram, you're giving them pieces of content, you're educating them. It's great stuff. It looks good. Then they get to your site and they learn about your process. So most likely, the flash and the sizzle is what will drive them to the site, and it's a steak that's going to make you different. OK all right. so in the book, he says the customer is not always right. So when they come self-diagnose. If you don't remember anything, try to remember this one line. I'm going to highlight it here for you, ok? You may be correct. But let's find out for sure. I need a website, Amy. You might be right, but let's find out, how do we do that? I have to spend time learning about your customers. Oh, we don't want that. OK, then I'm not right for you. OK, hold on. Maybe we want how much is going to cost. It's going to cost K. That's too much. OK, we're not right for you. OK and here's where I want you guys to have your story ready. And people have asked for this on the threads, you can see it, there's the mechanic example, there's the doctor example, Blair Gibbs, the mechanic example. I've talked about the doctor thing. And what I would say is, have your own example, you need to have it. So it's not a story you read. On the internet or on a book, have your own story, I have mine. We we have stories like this. All of us do. About when the client dictated terms and prescribed their own solution, it didn't work out. And then we've made a promise to ourselves, we'll never do it again, and that's our Audi promise, you know, and we I tell that story to people like, OK, I get it. I totally get it. Have your own story. Somebody wants to say something. No, OK, somebody unmute themselves, I hear a little static. Anyways, you guys can see this elsewhere, but I'm trying to make it convenient for you in case this is the first and only episode you ever watch is. Here are my questions to help you guys diagnose the problem. And there's just three questions OK, and I learned this from Jose. I just changed the words a little bit. The three golden questions is, what are you trying to accomplish? And what's the barrier, what's getting in the way of you achieving this goal? OK and three, why do you believe this to be the case? And that will usually mess people up. The why question, so what do you want to do? What's getting in the way of this? Do you believe this answer to be true? Amy, we need a website. OK, so what are you trying to accomplish? We need a website, Amy. Well, why can't you do this? Well, the last time we worked with somebody didn't work out and it took too long. We spent too much money and, you know, we didn't get the kind of conversion of the traction that we wanted. Oh, OK. Do you believe that to be true? Well, we believe it was because the graphics were wrong or whatever they say. And you just keep asking why, why and why? And it turns out their products suck. Or something else was broken in the chain. And you know what, when you ask all these questions, you help them to realize the solution. So you're not persuading, you're not convincing, you're not selling, you're educating. And I'll talk about that a little bit. OK your job is to facilitate them figuring out what the next steps are. OK, and I always joke when I give this presentation, the next part is the hardest part, you got to just shut up. I want to say it kindly, but I'm not just have to shut up and you have to shut up in your mouth moving and your mind thinking about other things, you have to be present. And that's a lot harder to do than it is for me just to say, OK. You just have to be quiet. Quiet, your thoughts and listen. Questions, I have two more to get through, and we're running out of time, but you know who has a question or a comment on this? Go ahead, Ian. Yeah, I've got a quick question regarding selling a strategy. You know, I get saying trying to kill the sale and saying, well, we're not right for now. Jose had mentioned, I can't remember if it was on his Facebook or somewhere in one of his presentations, but he had mentioned some statistics around strategy, and the companies that went in with strategy first got 50% more sales or something along those lines. How do you and I love data and I'm actually trying to sell? Hey, we're, you know, we're results driven clients. We're looking for results driven clients. So we're going to be giving you reports on your conversion rates and everything else. What where can I find data around strategy? Companies that sell strategy and how it's beneficial to the client because I love to put numbers to it, man. Well, that's interesting. That's awesome. I don't know where you get those numbers from, to be honest. Maybe somebody here does, and some of these are really good at searching and doing research like that will help you find the numbers. So here's the interesting thing that I've learned in my life. So as much as I play a robot on TV and as much as Jose's, he's about heart. It's kind of funny. We're talking about things and I don't do any data. I do very little data because the emotion, the gut, the limbic brain is the decision maker and it doesn't operate on data. Data gets you kind of interested, but it doesn't make you, like, cross the line. And Jordan Belfort talks about this. A lot is you have to sell to both. You can't just be all data, a data wonk them because there's no heart. There's no passion there. And if you're all passionate without any data, they have buyer's remorse. Like, in the moment, they're very excited and they have nothing to back it up and they walk away like, what did I just get talked into? OK so if you're a data guy, self-professed find the data. I don't know, but it's a dangerous game. Like if will and Tina were on this call. They have data like this is what the traffic difference is, you know, but. Here's here's my thing. Let's just tackle this one part at a time. Companies that start with strategy sell 50% more. I honestly think what do you mean like in terms of creative services or 50% more effective? Yeah, effectiveness. Oh, OK. Well, I misinterpreted the way you said that because I said designers that sell strategy sell like 5,000% more. OK, OK, I'm just I'm living proof of that. I've come in for $100,000 job and I've walked away with over a million of business. I volunteered to do strategy. And now I think I have a client that is going to be spending somewhere around six to $700,000 annually with us because I did one teaser strategy session. right. But that's for you or me. Now let's talk about this, ok? Yeah, this sense of the client and the effect how I look at it. OK, here's how I look at it is if we don't do strategy. And if we don't have a plan, we have almost zero chance of getting there. So I can do is give you the best shot of getting there. And there's lots of factors that may prevent us from getting there, but at least we have a shot. OK that's the thing that I can offer, and I'm reluctant to tell you, it'll give you exactly these things now. You know, you can talk to is Al Martinez, friend him on Facebook. He was part of this group. He will rejoin. He's a data wonk. Find him. He has every slide data point, you want to find. OK, so that'll give you some ammunition there, but be careful that you don't just become that because I find that that's not as effective. OK, so Gotcha. Good advice, Thanks. You're welcome. So when you were talking to the client and you're diagnosing, you're going to find things. You can help the client to discover things that they didn't even understand, even in a 30 or 45 minute call, you can do this. OK, so you want to build a new website, let's go back to Amy's example. Great who are your customers? You know, they're like baby boomers. Oh, OK. They're senior citizens. How many of those people do you think are on the web? Oh, I don't know some. Do you have data to support that? Can we look at the analytics? See, this is what I do. I'm a jerk. I just keep asking questions and I call you out on your stuff. Right there's two questions I'm going to ask, are you sure they're baby boomers? Where's your data? Oh, my god, it's only 10 percent, so when you say all you mean, like all not, I don't see it in that tone, though, guys. So just let me be clear about that. And then they're like, and they're hitting the site like crazy. Like, what are we talking about? Like 40,000 hits a month? What are we talking about? Oh, we had 47 users total. Oh so what are we doing here? OK, so you see, like we had zero chance of getting the problem because we didn't even know what the problem was. OK all you have to do is ask a few of these questions and you're going to see a totally different relationship between you and your prospective client. I do it all the time. Now, one day soon. I shouldn't say one day I have a video camera at our office with me doing strategy where all you guys can do is watch and listen and you'll see me doing it. It'll be like a candid camera kind of thing. OK, I'm not sure about violating trust and all that stuff, but I'll figure out something, you know, where a client? OK, you guys can see and we'll do it. I do it all the time, you guys. Recently, I did I did, like two days ago. Strategy session with a client. And there was one person who was adamant like, this is really important. Don't dismiss this. Like so. How many people attend this event? Like 300. Out of how many? 150,000 do we really want to spend this kind of time and energy guys, the whole Pereira principle. 80% of revenue comes from 20% our efforts. What do you guys want to do? So I just ask it and this way and everybody's in the room knows what's going on. Just the one person who doesn't always seem to figure it out. OK I just ask these questions, and that's my gift, and I hope I'm giving my gift to you guys. Elena says we won't tell about the hidden camera. You know, what's crazy, though? You guys, this is where I'm like, if you guys have noticed something that's happening in the last two calls, I'm stiffening up a little bit. It's not because I'm like, I have a bad back. I'm stiffening up because clients are buying into our program and they could be part of this call. Like, I don't even know who's on this call right now. So I have to kind of mind my P's and Q's here a little bit. OK so thanks, Paulina. But some of the clients are in this room and I'm scared. It's crazy when your clients are watching your channel. And if they buy the kit and they see their own names in the kit and Oh my God. All right. Anyways, embrace selling all this one's the horrible one. Is mark posh still on or he's gone. Oh, he's still on. OK yeah, we all hate selling. They're still here. Yeah, we all hate selling right, selling stocks. We were created. I hate selling. Selling is horrible. It's money and it's dirty. It diminishes what we do and it's just cheap. Until you love to learn sailing, which I've learned to love sailing. And I, you know, if you ask me a couple of years ago what I love this, I would tell you, no, no way, no way. I'll bet you right now. And then here I am telling you, let's embrace selling. OK chapter four, or you know, the fourth proclamation is to embrace selling. It's a natural part of business. Business is about selling and making stuff. All right. It it's only in our mind that it's some weird, abnormal, abhorrent behavior. It's just normal. All business people have to sell creative people have to sell to. And number two is the really important one, you guys experts don't need to convince, persuade or sell in the same way. OK, so we'll talk about this. We should not convince a lot of us try to convince and we're pissed when the clients don't believe us, right? This won't take long. That mark, kind of. Yeah, still. With without somebody talking to your background there, mark. No OK, let me turn it off. Yeah, please. Not unless he's talking to us. Sales is facilitating the next steps. We talked about this a little bit already. OK OK, so what does it mean to sell so we have to change the definition of selling because we all have some negative connotations about selling because it's been done to us and it's super annoying. Sales in terms of some super spammy email. Sales and when you're in a retail space and somebody just in your mug all the time. Hi pressure stuff, if we've ever purchased a car all the way. Thank you. Somebody move that with that. All right, thanks, anyways. Have you ever purchased a car the old way? That's a horrible experience. First time I ever tried to buy a car. It was horrible. OK, so then we get, oh, come on, mute. There we go. Is we have a horrible experience, and so we walk away into our adult life, into the creative field, and we think of ourselves if I sell and I'm like them and I don't want to be them because the used car salesman thing is horrible. OK, so we're going to break it down. Selling means to help people. I want to help you and I genuinely believe that. OK, we want to inspire the people that are interested. And once they form intent, we need to reassure them. That is what selling is, we want to help the unaware. InspirED the people that are interested and reassure those who have formed intent, so we're going to talk about that. All this time. There's a lot of slides here. OK we have to understand that to help people. And to position ourselves as an expert, it's a long game. So his thing is, we want to educate and disseminate it's not an overnight thing. It's going to take time. If you look at Blair, he writes, or he has guest writers writing on his blog once a week, almost. And he wrote the book years ago, then you spoken at a couple of events. So this is what you guys need to do. This is what I've been doing for the last year and a half, and I'm starting to see the results of that. OK it takes a while. And what you want to do is to create content and disseminate it. Now I was talking to somebody yesterday. And they're telling me, like, I don't put this out, so I'm going to steal my idea. You guys feel like someone's going to steal this. Well, you could be the world's best kept secret. And that's your prerogative. But realize something. Your idea is not your own, you Stole it from somebody else. And it's arrogant and foolish to say it's your idea. Let's let's get over it. And if it's good, you should want to share it, share it openly, share it freely. And just do it. OK like we're doing right now. Can I say something? Yeah, who's this? Yes, Pauline. Sorry Oh hi, Paula. Hello yeah, I was thinking about what Gary Vaynerchuk was saying that he shares all of his ideas because 99% of people won't do anything with them, but because he shares that it's, you know. I'll tell you right now, Sean, is not one of those people. He will do something with it. He'll turn it into a video the next day. It's true. One Yeah. 99% of the people, not the people in this group, but yes, for sure. And who cares? You know you got the idea from somebody else. You got it from your dad, your mom. You got you read in a book a teacher. Somebody taught it to you. You weren't born in a white room devoid of any influence and form these deep thoughts on your own. Trust me, you didn't. I mean, maybe you're a Socrates. Maybe? maybe, but, you know, after that, not really. OK thanks, Paulina. I don't think I've heard your voice too many times through threw me up like, who is talking? Awesome Thank you. OK two. OK this is a big one, you guys. This is where, you know, number four, we could probably do like a whole call on number four alone, meaning number four, is this ok? The next one is you need to focus on the needs of the client. Wait, hold on. Focus needs on client to solve a problem, not to hire us. I think I wrote that wrong. OK focus on. Why isn't this working? I can't edit my own deck. There we go. I don't know what I'm writing here, you guys. My keyboard is not working, either. I screw it. OK makino is misbehaving, you guys. OK, here's the thing we want to focus on what our clients need. And sometimes it's not. We're not the solution to their problem. I know that's crazy talk. Because you're in this cell cycle, but if you look back at here, we're here to help. Whereas here. We're here to help. So a lot of times we are not the right solution. I know somebody that's better in my network. I'll introduce you to them. I know you needed a website. I don't really build websites. And even though you came in and asked me for this, I don't think it's right for you. We have to be focused on helping them and not helping ourselves. OK and we're going to talk about that a little bit more. And what we're here to do is to help facilitate change. For them. Whenever they're considering to do to help them find the next step. OK, so I wrote this part. Being objective is a hallmark of an expert. Because yes, ma'am. Um, so a while back, I don't know how I came across an online webinar. And it was for life coaches, and I guess I didn't catch that part, but I watched the whole thing, even though it was for like coaches and it was about how to sell your services as a life coach. And it was saying that first call in itself should be a coaching session on if they need life coaching. And I thought that was an interesting approach. Like when they hang up, they should feel like they already got some coaching and you're coaching them on what they really need. Does that make sense? Totally makes sense. So you're giving value and you're coaching them that they might not need coaching. Yeah, right. And what is that doing for you? What does that do for you as a human being? You know, building trust, trust, Ian, call it out. So it can be genuine or it could be a ploy. But either way, it works. I've done this before, and I've had this happen. I've gone into Best Buy. I like to buy the best thing of whatever it is, I'm touching. So I'm the easiest mark. If you see me walking in the store, just tell me whatever because I'll buy it. OK, so I know that about myself. OK and so I come in like, I think I want to buy this. And it's like the middle of the road model, you know? And then he tell me the difference between this one and a much more expensive one. They talk to me. I was like, oh, you know, I think I want that one. And they'll tell you, no, don't do it unless you have these three very specific needs and you're paying a lot for that. So I wind up buying the most expensive one anyways, because a lot of funny things are happening inside your brain trust and I'm like, what do you mean? I can't afford that? Of course I can afford it. You know, I'm getting challenged. He's saying no to me. All these things, I'm being unsold. So by unsettling, you sell more, it's really weird. OK, so here you are. This one's critical, and if we've been on the calls for a long enough, you guys have heard me talk about this, you have to be objective. You have to be detached. You cannot. Come into the room with a solution that you already sell. OK, be brave, you guys. And Carrie green did this once before, and she's on the call. I see her name. Yes she never MRSA call. But Kerry did this and I told her, here's a homework assignment. Find a client you do not want to work with, just to test this idea. So you guys all do the same assignment, ok? Find one client that you don't want to work with. They don't have enough money there to annoy. They do something that you just don't believe in. Find that client. You have them all the time and be brave. And to talk to them and design a solution for them. Obviously, that's not with you. See how it makes you feel. See how you're perceived, because when Kerry did it, she had amazing results. So when she talked to her client, her client wound up doing something and she helped her to close a piece of new business that she wasn't able to do for months. So she sent her a very ecstatic text, which then Terry Carey shared with me. And so how did it make you feel, kerry? I felt like for the first time in a long time, I made a difference in somebody's life. I felt like I was in control. I felt powerful. I felt valuable. Well, why don't we do this every single day of our life? Because those things are good traits. We help people. We feel valuable, we feel we're in control. It's pretty awesome. So what I do all the time. Try to undersell myself. OK, the next part is this inspiring the client, how do we inspire the client that form or interests? They're interested. We inspire them by showing them relevant work. Relevant, meaning what's important to them. And the work part doesn't need to be your own. OK I have a friend. Let me see how I should say this. He makes more than a million dollars, so when I say make, he puts more than a million in his pocket every year. And his deck shows some of his work, and it shows some of Apple's work, and it's pretty brilliant the way he positions it. Because this whole thing is like, why do people wait in line for days to buy this stuff and he breaks it down? So you're the storyteller, you're the person who's the strategist. So the work part is a byproduct of your strategy and you're thinking it's not what you do. It's your delivery vehicle. OK, so he does that, so it's important to remember this, you don't it doesn't need to be your work. And what's proof of this? Well, whose work is that we're talking about right now? This is not my work. She's trying to teach you a concept. See, so this is like the meta version of that, right? Hopefully, Blair doesn't get upset about this. I tweeted at him. All right. Don't get hung up, that has to be your work. And this is the other thing is what our clients really buying people think they borrow, they're buying the best design. This is a common mistake. Why didn't they pick us, we clearly do the best work, you've missed the boat. They want to be reassured. They have fears, they have reports, they have quotas to make. That's why clients buy not the best option, they buy the least risky option. You guys really need to understand this. When I understood this, I approached the game entirely differently. OK they buy the least risky option, so your job is to become the least risky option. How do you do that? You've got to reassure them. So when they want detail, you give them detail. Whatever it is they need, you've got to get them across there. So here are three things that you can do to reassure people, and you're not going to be comfortable with these at all. And I'm not even comfortable with this type set to be true truthful with you. I couldn't make this like, not bold last night. And so I'm like, whatever, they're bold numerals. Get over it. OK one is the guarantee like, Oh my god, I'm going to guarantee the work. Really, it's crazy. Talk to is the phased engagement, and I'll explain that face engagement means to break down the entire engagement into smaller, bit-sized pieces. And 3 is have excellent case studies. That's the one thing that you guys can do today. You have proof. Yes, here it is, is what it looks like. So for Ian, he's going to build one amazing case study with lots of data. Cool visuals. So he speaks to both parts. Here's what we did, here's where it started. This is what it looks like. These are the results. Here's all my data. So it's important for you to capture the data before you start. And then after, OK. Ali's case studies are full of data. It got 87,000 more engagement, it did this and it moved that. OK all right, let's talk about this one at a time. A guarantee. Well, how many people, just the people that I can see, obviously raise your hands. If you believe in your work, you believe in 100% Whatever you charge, you believe in 1% OK, almost everybody almost unanimous. Well, are you willing to guarantee it? OK, not so enthusiastically anymore. So there's a gap between wait, you didn't raise your hand that of the first time, but now you're willing to guarantee that's funny. OK the unmute yourself. It was off. It was off camera. Oh, you're off. You raised it over here where I could see it. All right. OK we have to learn how to use a camera. OK guarantee. Here's where we guarantee. I'm going to tell you I've done it before, and it works when the client is not ready to sign on the dotted line. And it's like 304 100,000 job, which is often the case for us. I just tell them, look, we're going to do it this way. And I know you're uncomfortable with it. So if it doesn't meet your satisfaction, I'll do it your way. At no extra cost to you, I will spend my own money to do that. And there, wow, really? Yeah, I will. I spend my money, that's my guarantee. It's not about like some kind of intangible like weird, like, oh, if you don't like that color, you can refund the whole money, whatever they're stuck on. That's the part you guaranteed I'm on. OK he had said something funny in another presentation. You got regarding guarantees as far as the effectiveness of the campaigns you're doing and you're like. So this is what it's going to cost if you want me to guarantee it. Sure, let's triple the price and then I'll guarantee it. I'll figure it out from there. Yeah, if you want like a quantifiable result and then you pay me for it. And I'll take care of it, I will take care of it. And all different kinds of guarantees, right, because people are how can you guarantee the result? Well, if you spend enough money, I'll make it work. I'll figure it out. No problem. OK, let's talk about the phase engagement. Blair talks about the phase engagement quite a bit. So here's the thing, guys, this is awesome. OK this one, if you walk away today and you're able to execute this, you're going to do really well for yourself. Ok? here's how it works, Amy. I want you to build me a website and Amy's like, what are you going? Throw back at me, amy? Um, 10 grand. Make it high. Like, make it crazy. Oh, 100,000. Wow, Amy, that is a lot of money. We weren't prepared to spend that kind of money, that's a lot, so that's going to be a natural objection to your price. OK, so what you do is you're. I understand that. And it sounds like a big investment, which I acknowledge it is. And so why don't we do this? I do discovery, and for discovery, I charge 20,000. Why don't we start there? Oh OK, so if we don't like what we're doing, then we just stop. Yeah no strings attached. It's never happened before. Let's do that. I believe in it. So here's the thing, I believe in what I do, I believe in me, I believe in my team, I believe in our process. So much so that you'll love it no matter what. I have yet to do a strategy session where people walk away not like, wow, that was amazing, we're so energized right now. Well, I can guarantee it. So my thing is to get small pieces of commitment from them. And if you were really good at what you do, if you believe in what you do. A phase engagement like that will work for you. So take whatever numbers I'm talking about, take my process and just map it onto the way you do it. So $10,000 website, Amy, that's a lot. Oh my gosh. OK, I get that. Let's do a $2,000 thing. I'm going to do the strategy. We'll put together a style escape for you and we'll give that to you. So whether or not you think we're the right partners to see this all the way through and do the development that's up to you if you have a developer you love? Great This is a pretty good blueprint on how to build this. I'm being objective here. Right I'm not the solution, always. Let me just help you with this part, because this part I am really good at. OK, so then you go and you knock it out of the park. You're listening, you're resolving conflicts. You're a great facilitator. Why would they ever pick anybody else? They would be crazy. The only reason why they would pick that is because you are not a great facilitator, because you're designing solutions that you make and you weren't listening and you weren't being objective. And there's a call on that somewhere, you guys. On how to be a great facilitator. OK, so if you guys want to listen to that, that's in there somewhere. That's the phase engagement. So Blair also says you can take a project that's 100,000 and you can do a subscription model, you can say, OK, here's what we'll do then. I understand that's a big investment up front. Let's go on a subscription based model where you agree to pay us $10,000 every month. For a minimum of 12 months. It has to be more than the original cost. That's key here. I can't be the same amount because you're delaying payment. You guys understand that. So you see, like $100,000 job became $120,000 job because it's broken over time. And Blair says that oftentimes they will spend far more. Because $10,000 a month is an easier check for them to write. Does it need to get approval. So two or three years into the relationship now you've made $360,000 instead of 100. The case study we talked about, you guys all know how to do case studies. Excuse me, you guys start working on that. That's how you reassure them, OK, when they have an intent to buy. This was directly in the video that somebody shared with a group, and I'm just doing this so that in case you know, you have one reference point here, the four priorities, ok? Is first, we want to win without pitching whenever possible. That we can just use conversation. To win the job or our positioning and our expertise allows the client just say we want to work with you. If not, we try to derail the pitch. And we cannot keep going down the list. We want to gain the inside track. Or when things don't work and we don't have the terms that we want, we just walk away. We can't be an expert. When we make too many concessions, we have to walk away. So derailing the pitch is asking for concessions. To mess it up. OK and there's lots of things you can do to get concessions. So let's talk about this, you guys shoot, I have one more point here and it's almost 10 o'clock. You guys, I don't even know what to use. Words are. So we can end here and open it up for some dialogue, guys. And then next week we will power through whatever else is here. But your homework assignment? Let me just get to that before I open up to questions. This is not the homework assignment. God, keep. Some OK, guys, hold on one second. I'm going to unplug, the keyboard is not behaving properly here. No, it's keynote, ok? All right, first thing you guys are going to do is find. It's all caps, and I don't know what's going on, find a client. You don't want to work with. OK it totally doesn't want to work with me. That you do not talk with. OK And then you're going to help them. I find a solution. OK, keyboards aren't working. Wow OK. Help them find a client. You don't want to work with. Help them find a solution, and then you're going to report back. Hey, Chris. Yes, sir. Had that same problem, so I went to Apple support. And if you clean your RAM and it fixes it, but when you're offline, go ahead and follow the process. It's pretty simple. Ok? your Facebook message? Thank you. Yup I don't know what happened. It was working last night, so hopefully I don't even have to do that, but we'll see. It's working right before this call. So is this so? Is this like the opposite of finding an ideal client? Basically it is. I'm going to guys to practice what it really means to sell, to sell means to help the client. And the only way I can get you to do that is to find a client. You don't want to work with. And trust me, you have many clients you don't want to work with. I promise you. You do. OK they're the kind that doesn't want to pay you. There's a client that wants to dictate the process. All those kinds of things. So when you're talking to, I just want you to try this. I want you to help them. That's not you. OK, I want you to help them in every which way you can. You're going to see something different. You're going to see a change in the dynamic between you and the client. And we're going to share that next week. Is everybody clear on the homework? Please do this. Carrie green can testify to this later. It will show. Well, miss here, say something. Sorry yeah, I did it this morning as well. It's actually become fun, so but tell them a little bit of what you learn. Besides that, it's fun and you do. Well, this morning I had a lady that I absolutely knew could not pay me. She wanted a membership site, so I got her on the phone and just helped her, you know, find out what her problems were, what you know, what kind of course she was doing and gave her some solutions or whatever. And she was so thankful she sent me $100 just for my time this morning. I didn't know how much time do you spend with her and she sent you $100. $45 45 minutes for me. But it was just. Hold on, hold on. Hold on. I'm super excited for you right now. Hold on. Oh OK, cool. So again, one business and what did she get? She got some business. She needed to pay her. And then you, the client paid her. That's what I want to tell you guys. This is the important parts of the lesson here. But what was great was she was ready to give up this weekend and just talking to her for 45 minutes, put a spark back in her, you know, and she has solutions. And she was like, if I have any questions, I'll contact you. So it's becoming it's becoming rewarding, I guess is the right word. Helping people that necessarily can't pay you. OK, so the only transition that I want to make. And I don't know if she's been able to do it yet is I want her to treat everybody, including the clients she desperately wants to work with the same way. MHM because it's harder transition, it's a mindset. If the client that doesn't want to pay, you can't afford you gives you $100. The client that has a ton of money. What do you think they're going to give you? Right no, it's just have to get over them. Yeah, it's that mindset when you. Versus want in the claim that you don't want, you know, um, but it's a process, but I highly recommend doing it, though, because it's been eye opening. Um, well, Kerry just didn't the I'm sorry. No, I appreciate you highly recommending it. I'm going to go a step further. I'm mandating that you guys do this or this is not an option. Don't even show up on the next call if they're not going to do this. You guys need to do this. You need to try and you're going to see what happens when you're talking. Kerry, I don't know if you're looking at the screen, but Daniel Montgomery has like a grin from ear to ear. He's like, dude, this is awesome. This is awesome. It's pretty. It's pretty great. Well, it's a confidence booster as well. I mean, like, it's um, you're actually helping someone. Um, and I mean, she was ready to give up. She was ready to give up on her business. And 45 minutes, she was back, you know, so it's pretty. It's pretty awesome. Guys, this was completely unrehearsed that yeah, it was like I wasn't texting her. I didn't know that this was going to be the story. But so far, when Kerry's done this, and as far as I know, she's done this twice, she's had the exact same results. Me, now my challenge is to take it to that next level, you know, which is to the pain, to paying clients, the clients you actually really want, right? That's the next level. OK usually this is a bad term, but. To experience a level of detachment. Usually people are like, hey, you're kind of detached. You know, that's what serial killers become. But this is what we want to become when it comes to selling. OK, I just want to help people. And my version of the same story is this. I don't I don't really want this. And then they start throwing all kinds of crazy money at you. OK, when you're just there to help them. When we talked about the being there for them, being a facilitator, doing discovery, the people who do strategy, you get 10 times more work than you could ever imagine. So those guys are. I'm sorry. Those are the guys that are Single Leg solopreneur or a one or two person shop. If you do this right, you're going to have to start hiring. That's why I created the other group because you can hire some of those people to help you. Go ahead, Carrie. I was going to say with the first lady, I've done it 5 times now, actually. Um, with the first couple ladies, I've actually got some referrals from. And then the lady this morning, she went and blasted on social media. So it's good on that aspect, too. I mean, like, um, you help them. They go out and shout you out to. There you go. OK I realize this channel three, our group is starting to fall a little bit by the wayside here. So I want to do a quick review. OK, and then we want to wrap this up. We're in the wrapping up phase here. I wanted to have more time to talk to you guys, but it's getting late, you guys. So my review is this. Did you find today's call to be helpful? What did, if anything, you got from it? Or what would you like more for the follow up call to this? We all read the book. In theory, except for Mario, we've all read the book, so. I'm all ears now. OK, let's spend the next five minutes talking about this, and we'll wrap up. Ian, you want to say something, go ahead? Yeah, I've read the book a couple of times and I love what he says and willing to adopt it. Our current situation is, you know, I just partnered it, this firm and I'm having to learn all the business stuff. And you guys have been a huge, huge help. But our current situation is, you know, where do we get the leads? And I've got a lot of coaching on this. And it's a matter of just sitting down and doing it. But I would love to hear from you when you were getting started, you know, just how did you find the leads? OK, so that's a request for a future call. Great what I was, hopefully. Let me redirect my question or let me redirect you guys based on this call specifically to go over the book in the way that we have. Is there anything that you got from this or is this not? Was it? We don't need any more of this. Let's stop. Or what? Because I don't understand. I need to hear from you guys because I maybe two or three steps from where you'll be shortly. And so sometimes I forget, like people on that level need to play a piece of information. I like hearing the real world applications of the ideas that they talk in the book. You know, Kerry just talked about, you know, basically like just wanting to help. And that's like one of the principles so perfect, so real world application stories from people who are using it and are doing well with it. Perfect, I could do that. Anything else? Yeah, I feel like the book reading the book. Sorry about that, but reading the book gave me the theory, but the class today was more about how to put everything into action. Great thank you very much, Daniel. Was Daniel right? Yeah OK. I was writing, OK. Nobody else. Anything else you want me to do for next time? Relating to this win without pitching thing. They're an ideal client to help. So I find myself helping a lot of designers, which OK, but doesn't really mean anything, unfortunately. Well, no, I like I mean, I know that they're in a jam and I'm willing to help, but I just I know that kind of distract. It takes a lot of my time away during my day. So I got, I guess I got to stop. Well, Tim, maybe we can find a balance. You like to help people. Let's find people who when you help them, it's more complementary, you know, versus like you're doubling up on the same thing. So you're helping designers design. That's OK. That's cool. That's good for you. But if you help a marketer figure out some of these things or an entrepreneur or an executive figure these things out, it's going to be a lot more valuable. Yeah, I guess all that. So in that regard, I think it's just really kind of tact and approach. So it's probably taking this one step away from this and saying, OK, well, when you are going to be that helpful person, what are some of those identifying like factors or characteristics or those specifics? I know that I, you know, there's times where I want to speak directly to marketing because I think they're way off base and I just I don't and I'm missing opportunities. That's my fault. It's not theirs. And I also have a client that I just see his brand. This kind of becoming a wash. And I just I feel compelled to just stop everything I'm doing and just say, hey, we need to fix this. Yeah And I guess because it's going to be better for him and it'll be great for me. Right? OK. If that's it, I know I'm in the same kind of boat with other designers. Um, it seems like designers are the only one interested in this. And what in core and what we're talking about today. And just the strategy and the process? I will I'll do marketing and I'll put out stuff and I'll do run challenges and opt ins. 99% of it is just designers opting in. It's not the actual client, so it's I end up doing a lot at the same. It's designers, designers, designers. So it's I guess it's how did that conversation? I guess this is a marketing lead question similar to for the next call. It's hard to get the designers not to be the only ones that listen to you. Ok? perfect. You guys have a similar problem, and I'm sure you're not alone. I'm sure a big part of This Is US preaching to the choir, preaching to the converted. So you have to go where they go and this is going to make you feel really uncomfortable. It really is. OK, so we'll dive into that next week, and I made some notes here. OK and once this part, all of this is done, I will update one deck and I'll release it to you guys. You have to worry about writing notes for this, ok? But as I can see, there are some issues here and I'll try to fill this in. So it's more comprehensive for you. All right, so. Yes this is Catherine I. I do have one more question for the next session. Yes is it bad? The guarantee? I still don't think I'm there yet like feeling confident being able to say that if it doesn't meet your satisfaction, I'll redo it. So like this doesn't like how you can get to that point. Well, I don't make that guarantee, either. This is not an all you can eat until you're fully, you know, you can't eat another bite and you love every bite you've taken. That's a different kind of guarantee we're talking about. So we'll definitely dive into that a little bit more. So I'm going to make a note of that. So please be on the call next time and we will open with some of these things, ok? About the guarantee. OK I totally hear you do not. OK, this is where I have to be careful. Don't go around telling everybody until you're totally satisfied. We guarantee you our work. That's not what I mean. OK, OK. Like, if I were to come a process and approach that they're not comfortable with, and that's the one thing that's keeping us from doing the deal. That's the part I'll guarantee. OK OK, so something. Here's a question that you guys can ask. OK, now if we're being very objective and we're really listening. And we say to the client, so I'm going to send you guys a proposal and it's going to be 86,000 and it's going to look like this. And it's going to sound like that. Are you guys good with that? If you don't get it, an emphatic, resounding Yes. You need to stop. You stop right away. And we know when this hesitation. That telling you something. So when somebody hesitates, you say, OK, I realize something here is I notice a little pause or hesitation from you speak to that, please? That well, to be honest. 68 is like at the very, very top end, I'd have to bend over backwards, turn over every stone and convince people if you really came in at 57 that's going to make it a lot easier for me to sell. I don't have to get it through procurement and get approvals and all that stuff. Yeah, OK, that's good. So then if I do 457 do this is not your OK. And they said Yes. You're good now. I noticed this and I read people, I try to read people in their voice and their body language all the time, and I see like, they're uncomfortable. Something is not right. Something that's not sitting well. I'll say, OK, I can tell right now that you're not ready to do this. Can you tell me what the top three things that are holding you back from doing this? What are your top three objections? To crossing the line with me, I want to make this deal happen, and they'll say whatever they're going to say. And if one of them sounds like they need to be guaranteed for one aspect. Then guarantee that if they're saying it's too much money, I don't know if I can spend this with you. Why don't we do a phased engagement? This mitigate the risk. Let's just do part one. See how it goes. So you're listening. Reassuring that's what you're doing. Does that make sense? Catherine? Yeah. OK try to ask them whenever you feel something's funny, it's not going to happen. Just ask. Be bold. Be fearless. Have the courage. Just ask. I don't think you like me as much as I like you. That's what I'm thinking in my head, right? You're not ready to do this, and I don't want to run away, build all this stuff, get my hopes up and then send this to you. After all this work, only for you to tell me this is not what we're going to do. I'll be really disappointed. And I know you don't want to sit here and read a proposal that you're not going to move forward with, so I want to be that person. You might even say, if you're bidding this against multiple companies, I'd rather be the inside track what I got to do to be the inside track and they'll tell you. Yes, and it sounds like it's also about putting yourself in a position to guarantee. Yeah, if necessary, if necessary. I've only had to guarantee you a job twice. OK 2 times in 2001 years. That's not bad. All right. Mm-hmm OK, cool. Reassure you're selling assurance, you're not selling design, you're not selling a website, you know, that's the end product. OK all right, you guys, thank you for hanging in there. We are running way over. Usually we end these calls an hour and a half in and I wanted to get through a certain part of it. I appreciate you guys staying engaged and for staying as long as you have. That's it for me, you guys, and I will see you guys next week.

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