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Foundations of Business & Where to Focus Your Efforts

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140
Anneli Hansson
Published
February 1, 2022

Anneli digs deep into the difference between business strategy brand strategy and marketing strategy.

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If we instead make it into, you will build your own brand like your own brand strategy platform for your brand. So then you can kind of dip your toes in and see is this something for me is this something that I'm interested in. And together we can find a way. Either you want to offer this to your clients or some kind of strategy maybe because even if you the strategies more the how the plan how to do things. So you can actually offer strategy for all Creative Services and that's kind of a way to just level up yourself and your services and actually getting paid for your thinking. So I hope you can get some inspiration from our conversations. And that could help you, you know with your client, no matter what you do today. And but we all need a brand. So last time we talked a little bit about what a brand is and we had just to kind of a kickoff for four days. And today I just want to go a little bit deeper and we just have a few and kind of slides pictures we want to, we want to show you, otherwise we will just have a conversation like this and I will talk to you we will talk to each other, as it's not going to be me. Like, my friend Diane Gabe says, I'm not sage on the stage and your guide on the side, which means that I'm not going to just talk and we're going to talk together. So with that said, I want to introduce my fantastic cohorts facilitator and moderator whatever I can call them. They're, they're here to be my sidekicks anyway. And let me see if I can find them. There's so many people in here. One of them is my he. Where is she can make any raise your hand I think you will then you will turn up beside me if you raise your hand. I'm not sure I can do that. Yeah, we can see, I guess, everyone can see me now. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, great. Oh my god, it's just like a webinar we like to say to each other. This is so cool. You just want to introduce yourself my headset people know who you are. Hello everyone, I'm here, I'm a brand and business strategist based out of Mumbai, India. And I also coach creatives and creative agencies to build a sustainable business, the sites that I have kind of been absconding from the pro group for a few months now that I have previously, I have been a member since two years here, and also been with an alien learn from her a lot. Thank you. Yeah, and you also been in the, in the business boot camp. Yes, I have been in the business boot camp. And I joined the program after that. So, I have been learning from the future and from Chris for three more than three years now, I believe. Yeah. And, and my having a really good combination of and business skills and graphic design and brand strategy, and I think that's a really good combination. So thank you my here for joining me. Let me see here, my, my grandmother is she in the house. I don't know if she's here yet but feel is should be here somewhere. Maybe she's not yet. Okay, am I okay i don't think she's heard. I'm just Can you help me see if she's here. I've been taking a look, I don't see Phyllis Shari is not here either yet, I think, Okay, Shari is another co host and also feel that you can meet them when they show up and okay so let's get started. So I don't think you need to be nervous anymore but we are, we can see all of all of you. Okay. There's. Okay, so what I want to start talking about because this is something that we interest that this call was going to be about and that is. So first of all, I talked about the cohort. My I learned this from my sister. She's a teacher. If you want to teach something. This is a tip from my sister, she says. First you need to start with a walk, like what are we going to talk about so I told you that we're going to talk about the cohort, and then why we do it. And then, how to do it. So, I hope you have some idea that we're going to have those calls together we are going to follow, kind of a framework, and you can go to the learning path in circle, and you can just follow step by step. And it would be great if you actually look at the videos, and look at the prompts before every call we do because they would make it even easier for you to keep up. Okay, so now, enough about the cohort, I want to talk to you about brand strategy. And before we dig into talk a little bit about branding, and I want to talk about the difference between business strategy brand strategy and marketing strategy. Because I can see a lot of confusion about this, and I would love to see you know I just need to see, see if I can see. So difficult when I just have speaker view and gallery view so I can see all of you. Okay, I will just call them you like you can just kind of physically. Raise your hand if you, if you want to say something. And today like keep it super short on point. And we just have a conversation with more people. And we're not going to do like a q amp a I have office hours where you can ask me, specific specific questions about your own company, but because we don't have so much time. I really want to have the discussion about something that includes everyone. and you don't want to speak. This is our secret. Secret sign. That means, back off. No, not really, but it's like, I don't want to say anything. I don't want to speak, and that's totally fine. You know it's not that you're rude. It's not just I just don't have anything to say about this, and I just jumped to someone else. Just want to include as many people as possible in the conversation. So if we're just starting out, because we need to keep this kind of a. Not too deep level but I want you to feel the difference between those things, business strategy brand strategy and marketing strategies so my e because you have, you actually have a background in all three of them like I have. And can we just talk a little bit about this first and then we invite people to, to say what they say what how would you say because you took business boot camp as well so if we look at just like be Smith, a business plan, or if you compare that to a brand strategy plan, what would be like the difference. It was pretty confusing for me. In the beginning, and also it is not very easy for me to explain to people, even now, but how I see it is as a brand strategy and branding, all these are very focused on things that include communication of board the business, the how, how we perceive the band the personality of the brand, and also the look and feel the visuals and the brand identity itself. Whereas when I talk about business I will include a lot of other things, like, like how the business is going to make money, their revenue strategy their pricing strategy and the business model itself, and things like that. There are a lot of other stuff that don't come to my mind right now. These are the. These are the things that are used to differentiate between business strategy, business, and then strategy. Yeah, I love that I think you so you know on point and I think it's also very different like I'm always very, like, Am I don't want to say this is the way it is because I don't believe we can say that no one can say that because in some companies, you know they do it this way and they do it in a different way in another company. So, but what I wanted to, you know, to highlight here and talk about is that actually business strategy and brand strategy is almost the same thing. And I don't think a lot of graphic designers, especially when you're starting out, think about this because they. I often get to hear like it's a lot about the visual part, you know, not so much about the business in it. But the brand strategy is actually like how to build a brand, but not just how to build it, it's in order to grow the business. And this is super important, because if it's just to build a brand that could just be connecting with people. And we always talk about how to connect with the customers and understand them and everything, but it's also about how to grow the business. So what we do is that we solve. But we're base brand strategist, we solve business problems. All strategies, no matter what strategy you are solving a problem. And for me the strategies a lot about the how the plan to actually do it. A lot of people talk about more the foundation of it, which is more. And, you know, it could be like the personality and the purpose and the customer and understanding them and the positioning, but you also need to kind of have that plan. How to bridge the gap so you can see in the market and in people's perception how they feel and think about you, how you will do that, but also how you will grow. The brand, so you can beat your competitors and grow your business. And if you don't have that plan you, that's not brand strategy. That's how I see it. I know that could be a little harsh, but I think it's important to connect brand strategy to business. Otherwise, you can do a strategy before you do a brand identity for example but you can call it a brand foundation or brand clarity or something else but it's not a strategy. Okay. So, I just also want to hear the marketing perspective, and I don't know, do you have a market could you include the marketing strategy part in this and see how you can compare those three. Yeah, I guess the way I see it is that business strategy is the most comprehensive, and that that marketing strategy is a sub segment of business strategy and brand strategy is a sub segment of marketing strategy. And so that, but all three have to support each other and be consistent. So, business strategy is includes all aspects of business, it can include finance operations management, and you have to look at all those perspectives. Now if your financing isn't consistent with your marketing or your branding then you have a problem. So, marketing strategy is is all those things about like the four P's price promotion place and and all that. So, you know, branding ceiling, to me it's more about the heart of the brand, and it's about how you're going to make people feel. And if all those are inconsistent I mean my passion is for branding of those, but you have to respect that, you know, for a company to be successful you need like an accountant's point of view and financial person's point of view. Yeah, I love that I think that's really good and I mean it's mn but if you look at our business plan, it's kind of interesting because, you know, I had to look at a few and I also been reading a few myself and it's like you look at the value proposition often like what kind of value the company can offer you look at the goals you look at the vision and mission. So there's a lot of things that are very like connected to but you said there's other things also you can also look at the growth for the business. Business the business the division segments. Also how many employees you want things like this is not connected in the brand strategy, the brand strategy is really do you have goals and KPIs is connected to the brand. So that's the difference but they're really really close to each other. Same with marketing strategy and brand strategy, and we're talking about marketing strategy here, and that is another thing, he had mentioned, Philip Kotler which is like the Godfather, one of the godfathers for marketing strategy. So when he studied marketing strategy in school like you study everything about marketing segmentation positioning, you know, so that's included. Also in, in the brand strategy so they're very close to each other. So like we talked about last time I think actually sometimes it's better for us ourselves, is we separate tactics and strategic work. Because marketing strategy and brand strategy, and business development in business today very close to each other. So, in some companies you will have a chief brand officer, for example, which is honest really like highest level, working with the CEO. Some companies don't even have that they just have a chief marketing officer. So it's a little bit different depending on who you work with. Just could just be good to know because sometimes I can see this in carousels and I see people talk about it. Sometimes it feels like when you talk about marketing that the people always mentioned them or tactic parts of marketing that that would be the sales driven, you know, advertising, but marketing is so much more than that. Okay, I actually just to break that down a little bit more I do have a picture I think my he can share that. And I just wanted, I just draw something and say, This is my how I see it and you can see how you see it after I just wanted to explain, I see branding. My head Do you think you can share that. Can we hear my Hey, isn't it she's not here anymore, your internet connection is not so good, my hope we can see. Oh, now this is the one with branding, one. That one do you want me to share the branding one, the branding. Oh, okay. I'm so sorry. That's okay. Just give me a moment. Okay, so I kind of I draw something, because that's how I see it. Because when we talk about branding before because first the brand strategy then we talk about branding smart activation of it. Often you know it's often very focused around visual things, especially because there's a lot of graphic designers, and I just wanted to share my point of view of of branding, so we can actually just have a little bit of a conversation about it. So I did a little bit of a drawing and my heat turned that into something. Okay, I think you will. Okay, so we're going to look at that and then after that we are going to go to breakout rooms and talk a little bit about goals. And so, okay, great. So, at this is the foundation. This is how I see it. Yeah, have the client appear. And I just want to say that this is a part of course that I'm doing soon, so please don't take a screenshot to share it, please. Because I am going to share it soon but I don't want. I just want to keep it to my course. And so the brand strategy is down here like the foundation. And we have this is like the whole you know the purpose the mission. The mission, the values. The brand personality who we talked to the market segments so you know how to niche, then you know who you talk to, you know, about them because we do research we know who what persona we talked to. We also know about the competitors we look at the market. We do a SWOT analysis, and we look at all the gaps and we do the positioning positioning is like how you want people to perceive you in their heart and their minds how they are going to think and feel about your brand. That's the positioning and the positioning also needs to compare you to your competitors, you want to find that unique space that no one else have right now, because you don't want to compete with price, that's also good reason to build a brand. So you have the brand strategy here in the bottom and the plan. But then I see it as like three different vehicles. So you have designed, which is more the brand identity, you have the behavior, like how you are and how you meet people, how you show up best brand. And then you have brand communication. I didn't write marketing there but but for brand communication doesn't have to be sales driven advertising. This could be like storytelling, social media, everywhere you show up and tell the story about the brand that could be in advertising. But it could also be in PR, for example, and your own social media. And all of this is what I see, this is how I see branding. So this is how you build the brand. So it's not just about the visual part, it's about how you act and behave in every touchpoint when you meet people and show up as the brand, and the stories and the message you tell people. So, but in order to do all this, you need to have a solid foundation. So you can see this is like the house and the brand strategy is like the foundation for the house. So if you don't have that can be difficult to know if I'm going to do brand communication and tell the story. Maybe I want to tell the founders story or the purpose story. But if I don't have a foundation it's really difficult to do it. Or how do we know how to show up. If we don't know what kind of values we have or what kind of personality the brand. And how do we even know how things are going to look like. If we don't know what we how we want people to see us and procedures. And really I would like to clarify, like we say that all apples are fruits, but not every fruit is Apple. Would it be safe to say that all brand communication is marketing but not every piece of marketing is Brad communication. I think I can't, I can't come up with any marketing right now that wouldn't affect the brand. I mean if the brand, if the marketing is. If the brand is included in the marketing. I actually think it's also building the brand. I think everything we do in all touch points, and this is why I wanted to like, It's a super easy you know drawing but sometimes simple is good, and just really good to think about that is not just the visual is not just the communication, but actually how we show up in everything we do if you some people are of you are more visual. So it could be easier to remember a picture like this. Okay, yeah, I have a model where I actually would combine design and brand communications into what you say. And then behavior into what you do and I use like a scale. And the whole idea is that you know a lot of companies do a good job of saying stuff but they don't do a whole, good job of following through. So, what I'm saying is that you can simplify it further behavior should be equal to design and brand communications, or it should be greater than design and brand communications. Yeah, I mean, I agree I think everything is it's connected to each other and I just think it's important to. I mean there's. I mean, there's Canseco to see if you can I mean you can do to like hundred different ways but it's like, I just think this was, you know, one way of showing it and I hope it could clarify a little bit. So, okay, maybe you can stop sharing. Okay, so now I talked a little bit about the difference between the three. So you know, and also the reason why it's important to have a brand strategy because even if you're a personal brand or you're building an agency brand. It's actually about standing out from the competitors. That's why we need to do it. We want to stand out. and we want to stand up for something. I'm going to stand out for the personality. I think this is so interesting because I'm the first to admit that I think this is really difficult to do for yourself. I'm a brand strategies that I'm tell people all the time to stand out and stand up. And what I'm doing best myself, is to fit in. I'm like an expert of adjusting to people and Fading in, which is kind of ironic right when you're a brand strategist and, but it's like, you know, it's not easy to do for yourself. So I think that it's just good to remind us about that because in this like sea of same with so many people offering similar things. How can we even remember people. If we don't do anything that stands out from our competitors. So that's one thing that is really important, but also, and to be able to not like talk about from your own perspective you need to know your customer clients, and to see how you could connect with them. The best way so you can actually talk about how it benefits them and give them value. If you start doing that then you will actually separate yourself from most people in the industry, because most people talk about themselves. So if you can share with people with your audience how you can make their lives better how you can transform their lives and make them reach their goals. Just that will be a big difference. But we will we will go back to that later but ok so i think we've talked a little bit about the difference here. Okay, so when it comes to goals. I don't know if any of you seen Alice in Wonderland, you know. Yeah. Okay. Can we try the reaction bottoms before you fall asleep everyone can you just give me a reaction. If you haven't seen Alice. Alice, Alice Who the fuck is Alice. Okay, great. Everyone knows well this is okay. The analogy with Alice is like, you know, she's like, I feel like I'm Alice sometimes you just running around in this fantasy land and you're like I don't know where I'm going with this sweet hat. I'm just okay so you don't know where you're going and Alice is asking, like, is this the right way you know the system, is this the right road and. And the answer is always like, Where do you want to go. And her answer is, I don't know. And then the answer is, you know, if you don't know where you're going. How can I help you like how can I give you the answer, kind of, so that's kind of the, you know, idea with that. And that's so true, because if you're just running around. And you ask all people all the time where what you are going to do and where you going, but then when they ask you, but what is your goal Where are you heading and you're like, I have no idea. So how can I help you. And I think this is why I want us to go into goal setting and talk about goals for your brand. Because if you don't know what you want with your brand. Then we can actually never know if we do the right things building the brand. We always need to go back to the goals. And we don't have to make this so complicated, you know, you, we can do KPIs and they're like fancy language how you set goals and you know if you work at a big corporate company you've been through this it's like difficult to setting goals. But the thing is, we can, everything you can measure is great because you can set goals for your own brand and you decide about those goals. But it's good if we can measure the goals. so we know the result. That's the most important thing. And the thing is you can almost measure anything. If you're creative. Just like creative thinking, I want to reach Cisco, how can I measure it, then you decide how you want to measure it, and then you do it. I don't think it's so much more difficult than that, just to check in and to see if you're heading the right direction. Okay. So, we have something called the future state where you can see yourself, and a future state, saying one year, needs to be much more attractive than where you are right now. You want to see yourself in a more attractive place. And in order to get there. I think this is what we looked at last time that model that picture in order to get to your future state your goal. You need to do a lot of things to get there you need resources you need skills you need time. Sometimes you need money. And you know, it will not be an easy way, you will have challenges and sometimes you will just get thrown thrown back and you have to start all over again. But if you know where you're having it's so much easier to make the right decisions. Because there's so many things that distract us all the time. And I have to remind myself every day. Like, is, is what I'm doing right now is that really leading me towards my goal for my brand. And if not, don't do it annually. You know, I get distracted sometimes I think things are fun I'm like oh about it fly and I run after it, you know, it's not a good choice to do that if you want to reach a goal. So, I think that, to have that future state of mind like first where you want to go is a really good idea so I'm going to send you to a breakout rooms, but first of all I let me see here I think I had hand up. Oh, Michael levels acute panic No. So we can clear that if anyone have anything. Since my hand was up on accident anyway. When knowledge I think was the name asked his question earlier. If all marketing is brand strategy something like that I had to think of like a very long time ago I did a assignment for school analyzing Nike, and what I remember very deliberately at that time was that I was not capable of finding like one Nike catalog. They only will show up for bikers in the biker magazines for skateboarders and escape or whatever. So it was all Nike, but they position themselves like to these different groups of audiences, very differently so that's something I had to think of I don't know if it really fits the conversation but there was something that came to my mind and the compensation. Okay, that's a good idea. A good example but I think that's more of an example of positioning and who you talk to, so we will get back to that when we can get back to that when we talk about that topic. And, you know, but it's it's a good reflection. So I think I just wanted to make sure because I see this all the time that people are like, branding is up here and then marketing is down here you know he's not really the truth, a little graphic designer sees that way but if you would ask someone else. And I can also share, I had this amazing interview with The Blair ends the other day. And he's such a great guy, and he shared with me something that I think is really interesting and this comes down to what you offer. And he said, if you offer. If your graphic designer for example you offer brand identity design and brand strategy today even business development. of people don't want to do design anymore they just want to do strategy. The thing is what happens when you do that and I know this because I've been in that industry for a long time, is that you're not competing to add other brand, people anymore. You are competing to brand consultants and brand consultants, they're, they're showing up in suit and they're from the business schools, and their marketing background or management consultant backgrounds. They have big reports, and they charge so much money for brand strategy. That is who you're going to go up against. If you just do brand strategy for a little bit bigger companies. This could be good to know because the thing is I always tell brand identity designers, or creatives. I love for you to do brand strategy and business development and marketing strategy, but remember that word you can offer and you can do with your creative amazing thinking. No one, no one in the big companies can do that. There's so like linear, they're having this, we say like, you know, and you have this destructive way of thinking as a creative, they don't have that. So they are so amazed and I think you all know this. When you do strategy, no matter what kind of strategy, it is, as you show up and you visualize this, in some way, could be like a model, whatever, and people are like, wow, because it becomes something to just show up with like a report of 50, you know, word pages, it's like, here's the report. They don't know what to do with it. But when you start translating that into visuals people are like blown away. That is why it's so powerful to have that one side is the creative thinking, and the other is the business. The brand, the marketing. When you can combine business and design. You have such a potential to grow your business. I just want to say it because I don't know graphic design myself, if I was a graphic designer, a brand identity designer. I would love to be that I just feel I'm too old to learn right now I'm not too old, but I'm like it takes a lot of time and it's not that you go to school for weekend and become a brand identity designer, you know, and that's kind of the same with brand strategy so I think it's sometimes it's good to just realize that it takes time to develop skills and your hair in a group with amazing people. And like Chris is often say, like, look around and see who else is here in the group you're like a big agency. You can work together. You can create dream teams. When I meet those big management consultants when we talk about like business development and marketing. They are kind of jealous of people like us because they're like, you know how fast you can move, you can create this amazing teams together with experienced people. And you're super fast, you don't have any overhead costs, and you can move fast and solve problems. Just them showing up to a meeting, could be like a couple of hundred thousands you know because they have this big overhead costs, they're like 10 people's 10 seats in a meeting. They are afraid like for people like us and what happens now with all those big management consultant agencies, is that they are buying and looking to to work together with design and branding agencies, because they know the power of visualizing business. And this is happening now, and it's been like this for a couple of years, but there's potential here. And I just want to say because sometimes it feels like a lot of people are like, I don't know if I can go into this business world you know if I know enough, you do, because you have your, your strength in what you know and then you add on, but you need to know a little bit of it, marketing strategy business brand strategy. That's how I see it. Okay. And let. Quick question need up, because we need to go to break at trends. Yes. So I'll be really quick about it. I'm gonna bring the conversation back to about the marketing strategy and brand strategy. So if I'm also going to bring in what I said about all apples been fruits, but not all fruits been apples. It is something that's been nagging me, maybe it's second other people to what I wanted to get around to was. I see there's a primary function of an action, and then there is a secondary consequence. So, I agree with you, with what you say that anything that is sent out into the world is going to have an impact on the brand itself so eventually it's a brand strategy. But primarily, if, if I do something to create my reputation in someone's mind because my understanding of brand is still that it is the closest thing to what we call a personal reputation or reputation itself, or how you how something makes you feel about a breath. Yes. So, if, if I create a communication which is to make you feel about a certain about my brand was this to make myself known. Now these are two separate feature functions. So I just wanted to have your view on what you think about it. So, is that where marketing separates from branding, or marketing communication separates from Randy communication because the primary feature of the brand communication, would be to make you feel either one way or slightly differently about my brand and marketing would be to get you to know, or to get you to think again about my brand. Yeah, I think we complicate things a little bit because the thing is when I was a chief marketing officer. I did both like one part of the marketing and advertising for example, is to drive sales. You know, and to drive demand. Another part of it is to, to actually build the connection to the audience and to tell a story to build that connection and emotions and that I would say that that for me that's also branding because it's about connecting with people, it's about building those values. So I think even advertising could be like sales driven or brand driven, so I don't care so much if we call it branding, or marketing like to be honest but it's, it is We do both. So sometimes it feels like when, if I have like I did this super big campaigns where I work where we had like print campaigns TV advertising everything that was still advertising, but we didn't sell anything we built like the corporate mother brand who had like 40 sub brands, under it. But that was an endorser strategy because he wanted to tell the story and connected to values like sustainability and responsibility. So we told the story about the farmers and how they took responsibility, and that was not selling a product. It was telling a story to connect to people. and I think that is branding as well. Yeah. So, but it's also marketing branding. This one was brand. That's where I was coming through. Yeah, I don't know the story, my OCD got kicked them. You know what, I can, I can see us. I think sometimes To be honest, we, we make it a little bit if the client doesn't make it a problem I don't think we should make it a problem I think we should talk about the values we create and the difference we can make for the client, and as soon as we start doing that and not like end up in definitions because they don't care so much and I think we do that too much we talk about titles they talked about definitions, we should focus more about what is the value can bring to the client and when we do that, it's so much easier to sell because we're focusing on on that value. So, so I think yeah I think that is. Thank you. So, yeah, I want to send you off to breakout rooms right now and what I want you to do after talking about like all this. You don't have to have the most fancy gold for your brand. But I want you to use your imagination and to dream a little bit, and to think like, what would like in this future state where I see my brand, like in a year. Like what would that look like. Because when you have that in your mind and you will answer the questions you will get that will make you so much more focused on everything you need to do. So everything we are going to create in this journey the weeks we are meeting each other will kind of be a parcel so you can start out so when you know the goal. Then the next time we will talk about the purpose efficient and know why you do these and what you want to accomplish. And then we'll go into the personality and then, you know, who are you going to talk to, to really go to make this into a journey. So you build your own brand. But in order to do that you don't want to be at least like you want to be more clear than Alice. You want to make sure that you know where you're going. So we can create this plan for you. So I think my he. Do you think you can share that exercise we have. Want me to share the link. Know the picture, and then we can say yeah and then we can share the link in the breakout room and I'm just do you think you can help me make co rooms with four people in each room. You got it. Thank you know the goals yeah here. Okay, so this is a really kind of simple exercise my head and also been so kind to him, made it a Google document so we hope this will work that we will send it to you in the chat for you in the breakout rooms, and you can save that and you can actually work on this on your own, to next week. But we can start we want to get started so we get you five minutes to work alone, and then five minutes to discuss it together in the groups for groups of four. So like where do you want to see your brand in one year. What will success look like for you. How will you measure success and set three brand goals for this year. You can be as creative as you want with your brand goals. Doesn't have to be like, you know, as long as you can measure them. And if you're super creative how to measure them, be my guest. Now, I want you to set goals that you find that you get inspired by. Okay. So I think this, what will success look like try to do this exercise, and then if you want to. I love to visualize things. So I would encourage you to do a visual vision board, I call it the vision board. It's like a mood board with your vision, so you can turn this what would success look like turn that into pictures. I have that in front of me and I look at it every day, and I know what I want my future to look like that inspires me to do the right things. So, you know, if you want to take that one more step you can do that, this upcoming week. So you decide if this is about your personal brand so the question. If you decide about this is your personal brand, or if it's your agency brand. I would recommend, If you haven't. Like, if you're an entrepreneur you have your own company. But if you're just one person. I will recommend you lean into a lot of personality, in that company, because it's you. People don't know that people don't buy from companies we buy from other people and to lean into your personality will actually do a lot Good for you. If you have more people in your agency. You only together for example, you can take this exercises were going to do and you can do together with them if you want to, but an agency needs a leader. So do you if you're the owner, you need to lead. I have been doing that mistake myself. I had 12 people working in a team for me and I thought I could have this romantic picture of. Let's do everything together. You know, that didn't really work out so good, because they joined because they wanted to follow me, and I thought, everybody wanted to make all the decisions together. That was a learning. Next time I will lead. It will father. Okay. When we say three brand goals. Okay, let me see here. I got a bit confused. Somehow, though, that would be one big goal. Yeah, you can have, if you want to do, like we did the some day goal for example if you want to have big one big goals. And then, and break that down to other goals, that's totally fine. you know, like for example I want to my big goal is that I want to be. And, like, top of mind so Top of Mind brand records like I want people, when people say brand strategy and teaching. I want to be top five in the word world. I want people to think of me as top five in the world. That's my goal. In order to do that, I need brand awareness for example. So my goal is to reach 50 k on Instagram in six months. That's my first goal. And I haven't got longer than that because that was supposed to be a one year ago but it's ended up to be six months. So that's one example of how you can do it you can break it down to if I want to reach this goal with my brand. What do I need to do. Do I have a problem with the awareness that people don't even know about my brand, don't have a problem that people see me perceive my brand in a totally wrong way like what kind of challenges do you have. Okay, we are going to talk about who you reach out to them and do research what they really think about your brand later on this journey, but this is just for you, like, What do you want, what are your dreams. Make this inspiring like this the reason why you have this company. And you don't work for it for someone. It's supposed to be fun to have your own company and inspiring. So this is your last chance to dream a little bit. Okay. And, and any suggestions for people who are employed. Maybe personal you can do a girl for your personal brand. If you're employed for someone because personal brand you can build your personal brand, even if you work for someone else, your personal brand is your professional reputation, people say about you when you're not in the room. You can build your own personal brand even if you work for someone else. I hope that helped. Okay. Do we have anything else before you. Okay. No questions.

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