Speaker 1:

If you want to learn the ins and outs of how to make content that attracts the perfect person into your ecosystem, whether that's for your business, for your product, or for just your creative process, we're going to dive deep with Chris Do on the fifth element of his Business Psychology series, Attraction Marketing. You want to stick around for that. We're going to be talking about the fifth piece of your series on the 5 Core Essentials to Elevate Your Business, especially if you're a creative freelancer. We talked about buying psychology, sales psychology, pricing psychology, and crafting an irresistible offer, and now, we're going to hit the final, not the least important, but the last, nonetheless, on these five, which is Attraction Marketing, so let's just jump right into it, Chris. When you say attraction marketing, what exactly do you mean? What is it?

Chris Do:

For me, attraction marketing is this thing that lives between a couple different principles that you may be aware of. One is direct outreach and sales, which is how you do outbound sales strategies, and something that's much more ambient, which is content marketing, which is where you create lots of content, and over long period of time, it attracts the right kinds of clients to you. Ideally, this is what I would recommend to every single person to build your personal brand, your thought leadership, your authority, but people don't have that kind of runway, so they need more tangible results so they can't afford to do this for three, five, seven years, so this is some hybrid approach that lives in between more outbound reach and sales approach versus more ambient content marketing, personal brand building.

Speaker 1:

Let's just take a pause and maybe explain the two a little bit more for those that might be new or for those that are seasoned, I think to create that distinction. When we talk about sales and outreach, what are the classic kind of behaviors that you have to do to ensure that you get that kind of result?

Chris Do:

Okay, short of cold calling people or cold emailing or cold messaging people, the next version of that is something like this, and you'll see this framework being used by a lot of people, "I do this, I help clients with this, and if you need help with this, talk to me now." So it's very clear, it's very transactional, it's hyperfocused. Like we spoke to Richard Moore recently on LinkedIn on a live LinkedIn audio conversation. He teaches people how to do sales using LinkedIn, period, and the premise was how to go from creating content to getting customers. He's like, "Most of what I do teaches principles around direct sales via social media, more specifically on LinkedIn." Very rarely are you going to see a piece from him about a personal story, something emotional that he's going through because he just wants people to know and associate him with the idea of direct sales strategies using LinkedIn specifically.

Speaker 1:

Even while he's making content, which we could argue is the inbound marketing that you said, he is using direct sales practices in that content. So as soon as you visit his page, you're like, "I know what this man does. I know what he sells, and either I'm interested or not." Am I understanding that correctly?

Chris Do:

Yeah, and it's not even on his page, it's really if you're on LinkedIn. So one of the strategies he talks about is if anyone is looking at his profile, it's a prompt for him to reach out, so he is constantly looking at who is looking at his profile and saying, "Hey, I noticed you were looking at my profile. Is there anything you need help with?" This is a very effective sales strategy, by the way. So if you don't know this, you can use the basic LinkedIn function or pay for the more premium version, which allows you to see more of who is looking at you and what they're doing.

A friend of mine is in IT tech sales, and the minute I look at his profile, he's in my instant chat, already saying, "Hey, what's going on? Are you looking at something?," and he's doing that 'cause obviously, that is working, so that is on high notification alert for him. Here's the thing, this is the premise that Richard works with, which is no one's going to look at your profile picture unless they saw something that you did, either as a comment to another post or something that you've posted, and they're trying to figure out who you are. It's not by random chance. It's not like we're scrolling through profiles randomly on LinkedIn, so the minute somebody touches it, it means that for some reason, they're curious, they're interested, and they want to see who the heck you are. It's a great way for you to turn a lukewarm person of interest to something that's a much warmer.

Speaker 1:

Then, on the other side of this coin is what you called content marketing specifically, and you said it was a long game. So help me understand the difference because there was a little bit of content marketing in that Richard Moore example, so how is content marketing different than sales and outreach that is more outbound-based?

Chris Do:

Okay, this is more of an inbound strategy, which is more of what I do and what many content creators or designer creative types do, which is we create stuff. Sometimes it's visual. Sometimes it's us demonstrating what it is that we do, for example, if I like to draw. James Martin likes to draw, so he does this, and he draws logos, and he makes funny videos. Sometimes he dances in them, and it just lets people know about what it is that we're doing.

There's no call to action, there's no hard sale. There's not even a soft sale, and in presenting his work over time, he may gain followers, and some of those followers might be people who want to buy a logo from him, and so then, the onus is on them to reach out to James 'cause he's not actively mining any of it, presumably, that they're reaching out to him and saying, "Hey, I love what you do. How much is it?" I'll give you an example. This is real-life example right now.

I was going through my Instagram feed, and I'm looking at this typographic animation thing, and Instagram knows that I like topography, design, and animation based on my previous patterns of behavior, and I see this thing and it's pretty cool. It's an animated typographic poster on a bus board or something, and then it's a tutorial on how to create this effect using gradients and after effects. I instantly follow this person, and I reach out in their DMs, and I say, "Hey, how much does it cost to make that thing for something I'm looking at?" This person gave me a price. He said $3,000.

Three to $4,000. I said, "The most I have is 3K. Is this something we can do?," and he's like, "Yes." I said, "Well, send me a proposal. Let's go."

Right? So he wasn't looking for me as a client per se, but by demonstrating what he does, his expertise, his art, his skill, his personality, he's able to attract people to you, but there's no direct correlation between that pose and me seeing it and me reaching out.

Speaker 1:

I'm getting really excited about this piece 'cause I feel like this is where my business lives, so I'm going to geek out with you, but I want to just share for the audience, the key distinction here is if you are doing sales outreach behaviors, you are inquiring to the end consumer. You are going to the client first. When you're doing content marketing, if you are strictly doing it, 'cause Chris mentioned earlier, there's a hybrid approach, the audience is inquiring because of all the goodwill that you've put out there. Now, before I go down the rabbit hole of where I want to geek out with you, talk to me about what the hybrid approach would look like, because like you said earlier, not everybody has the bandwidth or the runway to sit there and just make content without ever asking. So what would the hybrid approach look like between these two if they were to coexist?

Chris Do:

The hybrid approach is something ... Well, before I do that, I'm a big believer in building thought leadership and building up your personal brand, and I'll tell you philosophically where Richard and I disagree. I'm not saying that I'm superior or he's superior or inferior. I'm just saying we have two schools of thought, and I want to present this so that each person can determine where they live on the spectrum, if they're more like Richard or they're more like me, okay? If you look at our YouTube channel, we've created over 1,800 videos.

That's a lot of freaking videos. In most of the videos, we don't ask for anything. We're not trying to get you to sign up for anything, and you feel the genuine nature of our generosity, and we build a relationship with you. Richard's approach is, "I'm looking for a client. I'm looking at the actions that I take that lead to result that I want."

His whole thing is like, "I'm here to optimize my workday to generate money or clients for my business." We get it. It's very clear. So when you do a very targeted approach like this, "I'm looking for clients," you're going to be more successful at hitting those clients. We understand that.

Okay, that's very clear, and when you're taking a broader approach like myself, like I'm going to broadcast content out there 'cause I think I have a idea of who you are and what your struggles are, "I'm going to hit you, I'm going to hit three of your friends and people I didn't even know I was going to hit," because it's not as targeted, okay? So in the short-term, if we were to bet who's going to win this race, you're going to put all your money on Richard. I would too, 'cause he's going to make more money in the short term.

Speaker 1:

100%.

Chris Do:

But if we step back and say, "Who's going to make more money? Who's going to be more valuable? Who's going to be a key person of influence three, five, 15, 25 years from now?," it's not so clear of an answer, okay, because what we've done is we've built community, we've created value, and the thing that you mentioned before is we've created a lot of goodwill. When you create goodwill, people give you the benefit of the doubt. They're willing to become, for lack of a better term, a super fan.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Chris Do:

They're on the road to becoming a super fan. Well, they'll support you in everything that you do. Whether you drop a T-shirt, a poster, where you show up to speak at an event, they'll go out and they'll buy tickets because they feel a personal connection to you. So one model is more transactional. I do something, if you need help with this thing, I will provide this to you in exchange for your money.

I exchange my time and my expertise for your money, and that's how that works. My model is more transformational. It's not transactional. I will not see money in a direct correlation between my efforts and what someone gives me on a one-to-one relationship, but I believe what I'm doing is building value. Now, why would this make sense to anybody?

Okay, here's where it gets real interesting. People like Conor McGregor, Kylie Jenner, if I'm saying her name correctly, the Rock, have built up a lifetime of either content or goodwill or relation with someone, and then where they cash in is the Rock has his ... What is it, vodka? No, tequila.

Speaker 1:

Tequila brand.

Chris Do:

He has this tequila line, which is worth a couple $100 million dollars. Same thing with Conor McGregor, Proper Fifth Irish Whiskey, or Kylie Jenner who's like ... And the entire Kardashian clan.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Chris Do:

Right? So they've been doing something, we get to know them, we get to like and trust them, and eventually, when they ask for something, you're willing to buy, and they're worth so much more. We can see that this rarely happens when it's a transactional model. That's key difference there. Okay, what is the blended approach? I don't want you to start.

Speaker 1:

Hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before we go into the hybrid approach, Chris, the way I understood that is the first one is a strictly sales approach, hence the transaction. The next one is a brand approach, to where at any point, once you've given so much goodwill, you could technically sell anything if it aligns with your brand because the audience trusts your brand and the things that you deem worthy of buying. My question is, "What are the things that someone needs to consider before they decide which camp they're going to be in and how they navigate their marketing?"

Chris Do:

I want to be clear that you don't have to pick one or the other. You could do both. You can actually create content that's actually transactional and create longer term content that's transformational, but you start to muddy up the waters a little bit, 'cause sometimes you're selling and sometimes you're not, and I guess we do some version of that, right? So you want to be aware of that. If you are in need of money, like you can't eat, you can't pay rent, you owe money for taxes, your partner's going to leave you, your children on rags, you need to focus on building a business and getting a sale.

You don't have the luxury of the runway that it's going to take to build goodwill up with your community, your audience, and potentially some of your customers. You just don't have that luxury. You got to take care of your business first, get your house in order. So in that case, I'm going to recommend that you go for more direct sales approach, more outbound versus an inbound strategy.

Speaker 1:

Then, what are some of the things for them to decipher if they should go the inbound route, aside from they don't need money right now?

Chris Do:

Okay, so once you have your basic needs taken care of, we're not talking about living a life of luxury and having fancy sports cars, but your needs are taken care of you. You have money for rent, for food, you can go out on a date, you have a little ... What is that called? You have a little nest egg in case bad things happen, your rainy day fund, you're good.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Chris Do:

You're good. So really, what you want to do, now, you have to think about, "Where do I want to be three, five, 10 years from now?," and you move into authority building. This usually is chronological, like in terms of how this usually develops, but not always, is you've got some training, whether it's self-taught or you've learned it in a university, you're a practitioner of the thing that you learn, you've been able to do that for a period of time, and you might have branched off on your own at this point, so we're not talking about someone who's 14 years old, trying to build authority. That's a little bit ridiculous. Not always, but more often than not.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Chris Do:

So you're maybe in your mid-20's or late 20's, early 30's, somewhere in there, where you start to think about, "Well, what's my future like?" I'm not always going to want to chase clients the way that I do, and it's not long-term sustainable, so this is now, you're in the place where I have things I've learned, things that I can share, insight I have documentation, I have proof of the things I've been able to do. It's a good time to start to share that, and the way that I would do it is I would start to share that with the younger version of yourself.

Speaker 1:

So good.

Chris Do:

And that's a great way to frame it. So we're not thinking about clients. We're not thinking about our competitors. We're just saying, "What would the younger version of myself, the 20-year-old want to know, needs to know, that could save them a lot of heartache and pain?" So you start to distill those life lessons down.

It could be resources, it could be a way to win new business or attract new clients, whatever it is. You're going to speak to this person. The reason why I say your younger self is because you know this person already.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Chris Do:

You know their habits, you know their resistance, you know the way they think about learning or doing, and so you can speak to them directly. Sometimes we have a difficult time in writing and creating content because we don't have a clear picture as who the person is. Well, this person you know, 'cause you spent the most time of your life with this person, it's you.

Speaker 1:

That's a fact.

Chris Do:

So write to this person. Share with them something you've learned. Maybe you could talk about a mentor or a teacher they have yet to meet and what you're learning from this person, and you can send it down, that timeline, if you will, and here's the cool part. There is some younger version of you out there that is not named you, and if it's a big enough audience, they'll show up for you and they'll get really excited, and they're going to get pumped up. They like your style, your tone, your delivery, your experience, your aesthetic, and they're going to be hungry for the kind of content that you create.

Speaker 1:

I'm so glad that you answered that question the way that you did because I personally struggled in the early stages and only leaning on brand and never asking when I wasn't in a position to only lean on brand, and the reason why I asked you that question is because there's a listener out there right now who, whether you want to deem it fortunately or unfortunately 'cause I love this person as well, Gary V., who says, "Just give value. Just give, give, give, give, give. Never ask," even though he says, "Ask it the third time," but it's never really clear when I should ask, and then that person who's listening scapegoats their fear of selling, or their lack of wanting to ask something with, "Well, I'm just building my brand." Well, Doug, you need money. You need to build your business, you need to make income, so I think there's a key distinction here that's really important, and he's going to get into the hybrid approach of all this.

It's like it's not a bad thing for you to be transactional when you need to survive, and you are also giving value to the other person, because then, if you're only giving value and never getting anything when you actually need something, I think, Chris, and correct me if I'm wrong, you can start to feel that, that disingenuousness when you're building a brand, but you also want to transact, and then it just breeds resentment in the person who's doing that, so do you have any thoughts on just that little spiel before we head into the hybrid approach, or do you think that's spot-on?

Chris Do:

There's a lot that you said there, but the part I'm going to zero in on is this part. Some people mistakenly mix these two strategies. They think, one, they execute the other. Give you an example. You really want sales, you're transactional and you're starving, but you're playing the long content game, but you actually don't behave like that, so you're actually not giving value.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Chris Do:

It's a thinly veiled disguise, and most people can see right through it.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Chris Do:

I think it's better that you recognize who you are, where you're at in your life, and be super clear and transparent because you're not fooling anybody. You and I follow people, and maybe some of them overlap where all they seem to be doing is selling to you all the time.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Chris Do:

And if you need that service, if you want that piece of information, you're going to support it. You're going to say, "I want to reach out to you. Let's do work. I'm going to keep following you," but oftentimes, especially I find it with myself, that after a little while, you kind of learn to tune them out, and it's actually annoying.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Chris Do:

Because you want to sell, and I'm not here to buy anything, so I'm going to unfollow you. I'm going to tune you out for a while. I'll check in with you in three, six, nine months, but from this point forward, I'm going to tune you out, and that's the danger of wanting to sell to people all the time.

Speaker 1:

I like that as well, because maybe we're just not the right fit for those people, you and I, 'cause we've had these conversations before. Like maybe we're not the target audience and we're like, "Yo, we're going to unfollow 'cause I feel like you're selling to me all the time," but on the other side of the person who's doing it disingenuously, where they need the sale, but they're trying to build the brand, and then they say, "Yo, this person's always selling," and then they get mad that they're making a lot of money, and it's like, "Well, that's because you're not doing the sales activities."

Chris Do:

Right.

Speaker 1:

"You're only doing the brand activities."

Chris Do:

Yeah, and it's hard to argue against the person who's selling all the time when they're putting a whole lot of money away. You're like, "Okay, I get it."

Speaker 1:

Right.

Chris Do:

"I just have a different relationship with you."

Speaker 1:

Absolutely.

Chris Do:

Right? There are many profitable companies out there, making billions of dollars a year, where people actually hate them or are indifferent about what they do, but they're very successful. I'm trying to find this model where you can be successful, you can build a relationship with people, and you can have a means to make a living.

Stewart Schuster:

Time for a quick break, but we'll be right back.

Bobby Oliver:

Have you ever wondered how some of the most successful businesses you see in your everyday life got started? Starbucks, Microsoft, Walmart, each company has its own unique origin story. I'm Bobby Oliver, host of the podcast, Business Origins. I explore these stories with you every week, and each episode is less than 10 minutes. Find Business Origins wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 5:

It's The Jeff Ward Show.

Jeff Ward:

The two oldest presidents in history coming back for round two. Shouldn't we be proud? One is drooling on himself and the other is the pied piper of the nut jobs, and the pied piper of the nut jobs is going to win. For the people that are sincerely worried about fossil fuels, these kids with mullets, I'm going to say are not helping you. They're hurting, so shut up and go vape.

Speaker 5:

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John Campea:

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Stewart Schuster:

Welcome back to our conversation.

Speaker 1:

So let's talk about this model that you've been exploring, which we've deemed the hybrid approach. Where do these two worlds coexist in your thinking?

Chris Do:

Okay. Number one, it starts with creating something that's valuable to someone. It starts really there, and we say create high-value content. What does that even mean? Well, teach me something I didn't know that I haven't already seen a thousand times, or share something I know, but in a way that I've never seen or deliver in a way that I think is funny and interesting.

Here's the example. I think they have something like, there's a guy who's like hip hop history, I believe, where he speaks in language of like, "Yo, that cat dissed this girl," or he breaks down movies or plays that are just like pieces of literature that are just hard for the everyday person to understand because the language is funky as heck. They're using some old English, and so he takes this. He's a African-American, and he talks about it, and I'm like, "This is super entertaining."

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Chris Do:

So that cat dissed that girl, and homie's not going to take it, and he does that, and he's really letting you understand, so he's taking a story, theoretically that we all know, but he's presenting it to us in a way that's new and novel and different. There's a similar concept too. It's like drunken history month or something, or drunken history.

Speaker 1:

Drunken raps or drunken history raps.

Chris Do:

There's a lot of drunken stuff, so you just take something that you know, and these are experts, and so they loosen up because they're having libations and they're like, "Oh, okay, so it's like this," and then they get into arguments. It's kind of funny to watch. It's way more interesting to see your history professor recite things that they've memorized over the years, and that's something. So first, spend the time to identify a resource, a tool, a guide, a study that you've produced, and package it. Package it in your voice, your tone, the colors and logos of your company, whatever it is that you do, and package it up.

Now, that you have something that someone would pay 20, 30, 50, 100 bucks for, that's valuable, and that's how you can determine if it's a high value piece of content. What is the market rate for this piece? What would somebody literally pay to know? If you could pay zero, then that is worth zero. So your target is something about 30 to $100 worth of value.

That's good enough. Some people might then underestimate and say, "Well, nothing I do is ever valuable." Well, let's not overcorrect here. We just want to have an honest conversation. If you were to ask a neutral friend to look at this thing and say, "Would you pay money for this, and how much would you pay?," and they give you an honest answer, then you know. Okay.

So I spent a month and a half designing, figuring out something, let's just say whatever it is, and now I want to share that with people because it's going to help them. It's going to make their life easier. It's going to get them closer to their goals. Now, I'm not going to just upload a PDF and say, "Download the whole thing." I want to build a little rapport and I want to use social channels to my benefit.

So what I'll do is I'll extract some of the high value nuggets from this guide, this study, this report, whatever it is. I'm going to write a post about it, and I'm going to say something like, for example, if you write email copy and you're doing direct sales via email, and you figured out the 100 subject lines that have the highest open rates and you've run 10,000 campaigns, so you have some evidence. Remember that part about you're in this place in your life where you've done stuff, you have proof and evidence, okay? You can then jump on a platform like LinkedIn and say, "Here are three subject lines that are guaranteed to outperform anything that you're writing," and you would give it to them and you would explain why, so you're adding a little more meat on the bones. Then, you would say something like, "I've actually just finished writing the top 100 highest-performing subject lines over a four-year period, 10,000 different campaigns tested."

"I'm going to give it to you for free, no strings attached. Just comment this word below so I know who to give it to." So this is the hybrid approach. This is also Richard's approach, by the way. So now, I've got something valuable, I've created interest, the post looks great, the way that you've written it is just super enticing, and there's value already delivered in this, and so naturally, people are very curious like, "Wow, these three are so good. What did the other 97 look like? I want the rest."

"And as long as you're not scamming me, okay." And so now, what you've done is you've asked the audience to self-identify, "I'm a person who writes email, emails, and I'm looking for clients, and I need to know what subject lines work." If somebody's not interested in that, they're not going to read your posts, they're not going to engage with you. They're definitely not going to comment below whatever the magic phrase is. So let's call it like email campaign. Let's just say that's the word, and then people type that in.

Why are you doing this? Well, now they've identified, and now they're giving you permission to reach out to them. Quite literally, they're saying, "Yo, I want the rest of this, please." So what you can do is then you can jump into the DMs and say, "Hey, I just wanted to provide this resource to you. Thank you for downloading it. I'm curious, is there a problem that you're trying to solve?"

It doesn't have to be much more complicated than that, or, "Out of interest, was there anything that caught your eye? What part stood out for you?," and then they'll give you some answer. If it feels like they're aligned with their problem, what you can do, then you should escalate and you should ask for the next thing. The next thing that you're going to ask for is, "I have three time slots available next week, where I spend 25 minutes helping people just like you diagnose their email campaigns. Is this of interest to you?"

So you're asking them to make very small commitments, where each time they engage, you're going to give them increasing amounts of value. This is the classic, classic structure of Permission Marketing by Seth Godin. So what we're doing in this modern age of social media is we're asking for people to volunteer to enroll in a long-term marketing campaign, where with each interaction that we go deeper, we get increasing amounts of value. So first piece of value is, "Here are the three highest performing subject lines for our email campaigns. Here is the 97 remaining pieces of value in terms of highest performing subject lines for email campaign, and now, I would love to give you a diagnostic that's free to you, to look at what you're doing to discuss what your goals and challenges are to see if I might be able to solve them."

Then, if they agree to that Zoom call or whatever meeting, then now you can sit there and diagnose, provide more value, and at this point, you can then tell them, "At the end of this, I'm going to tell you about a way that we can work together only if it feels right to you." So you're telling them, "This is a sales call, but I'm not going to apply any high pressure thing to you. I'm just going to park it at the end only if you're interested." So you do your bit, you demonstrate your expertise, and people who are experienced are able to do this, and then that prospect's like, "I think we need your help. What's the plan look like?"

That's how you go from what Seth Godin would write, how you go from strangers to friends and friends to customers. That's a process. That's attraction marketing.

Speaker 1:

I guess I'm thinking of what I want to ask you next, 'cause the direction I want to go to is like, "Bro, that takes a long time."

Chris Do:

Which part?

Speaker 1:

That's still a long game, so if someone were to like, "Yo, the hybrid approach, I love it. I want to do it," what should be their first course of action on the thing that they get right before they're like, "Okay, I need a free sample, I need a funnel, I need to be able to convert in the DMs"? What do they need to get right first to make this successful all the way?

Chris Do:

Well, get clear on your audience. Who is it that you're marketing to? Do they have an urgent desire to solve a very uncomfortable pain point? Do they have the means to be able to buy a solution to that? If they don't have the means, it's not any good.

So you can solve a problem for someone, but they can't afford the solution, it's not going to really work. So for example, if somebody is in a lower income bracket and needs to go from point A to point B to go to work, but they're not in a place where they have great credit or they have a down payment, or they're even contemplating buying a car, they don't really care how sophisticated your funnel, your marketing campaign is, they just can't buy a car. Really, what you should do is be solving other kinds of transportation problems for them, like maybe a month-long pass that allows them to take any form of public transportation. You should be focused on that, or what many industrial designers and urban planning people are trying to figure it out is something called the last mile. So we can take public transportation, but it's that last mile that kills us, where we have to walk somewhere to work, to a park, to a restaurant.

So they make electric scooters, they make all kinds of devices to get you past that last mile, and that's what they're focused on, 'cause we're not going to inherently change the infrastructure public transportation, but we can make it easier for you, from the stop in which you get off at to where you need to be. So that's where they need to focus their energy.

Speaker 1:

I think you've summarized this really perfectly. I'm not going to belabor the point. This may be on the shorter end of the episodes. I do have one last question, and then I'll leave you to take it wherever you want to take it. What do you think people get wrong when trying to execute this hybrid approach that you are seeing often and you think people should avoid making this mistake?

Chris Do:

I don't see so many people taking the hybrid approach. That's where I'm going to have little to say about that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Chris Do:

We know many people on the one side of the spectrum or the other, where they're really about building "Brand," or they're just doing all sales all the time, and we could see it. We don't see a lot of sophisticated things in the middle, because the thing in the middle is very difficult because not only do you have to understand how to do direct sales, but you also have to know how to make content that attracts people to you that's going to be valuable.

Speaker 1:

That's a fact.

Chris Do:

So they're going to be inherently fewer people can do that because, A, they're not aware, and B, it's not easy. So I don't really have an easy answer for you there.

Speaker 1:

No, I think that answer was sufficient. It is probably still not as long of a game as strictly building brand when you need money, but it is a sophisticated game that will be challenging at first, but when you can master it, the upside is crazy. I mean, look at Chris. Maybe the word is not master, but you have done an exceptional job in doing that. So I want to thank you for giving all of this value and never asking for anything. What are some things that you would like to tell the audience that have made it this far to this episode of the 5 Core Essentials?

Chris Do:

Well, first of all, I want to say thank you. Thanks for making it all the way to the end. We know there's a high drop-off rate, and the fact that you're still here says a lot to me about who you are and that you're connecting to the content. What a lot of people don't realize about me and where I came from is before I made a YouTube video, I taught at private art schools for 15 years. Before I taught at a private art school, I ran a business for even longer period of time, so I was running a successful motion design business for five years prior to even thinking about teaching.

What I've come to realize about myself is my identity, I thought was for a very long time, a service provider, one who makes commercials, graphic design, visual things for people, but I was suppressing a deeper identity, which was one of an educator. So when people used to ask me, "Who are you, Chris? "I'm a designer. I'm a designer." I would say that everywhere I would go.

I'd actually be even more specific than that. I would say, "I'm a graphic designer." I took great pride in that, but today, when people ask me, "What are you? What do you do?," I don't pause so much anymore. I just say, "I'm a teacher that's connected to who I am."

Over the last two and a half years, it's been very difficult, not on us, but on every single person on the planet because of COVID, and recently, when I went out and I was teaching again in person, I found that I kind of reignited a passion inside of me that made me feel so alive, and so when I was in doing a tour, a workshop tour in Australia, I felt more alive than I've been in a long time. You hear me say things like, "My brain was on fire," and I live to grow, and I feel like if I'm not growing, then I'm stagnating and I'm regressing as a human. So when I'm out there teaching ... There was a quote here, I was interviewed recently, and I was like, "I really like this. Here we go."

Craig Filek told me this. He's like, "Oh, you teach for yourself, but you practice for your students."

Speaker 1:

That's good.

Chris Do:

Takes a minute. You teach for yourself, so I say to them ... I think there's this dichotomy with teaching, that it's simultaneously a selfish act and an act of generosity, so when I teach, I'm sharing my goods, if you will, to the people or to the person who's in front of me, right? I'm sharing with you like, "Here are tools, here are your ideas, here's a big reframe, or here's how you would phrase this so that you don't have to deal with this friction point anymore," but in doing so, what the person who's asking the question is unaware of is they're extracting or inducing something from me, which is a piece of information I didn't even know I had, and in doing so, I learned something about myself, and when your eyes light up, I'm like, "Wow, okay. I have another way of explaining that to you."

Here's the cool part of life teaching, which is one person will say something, and they accept your answer, but another person's like, "Ah, wait a minute, I don't want to accept it. How about this, Chris, and how about this? How about this?," and you're getting hit from three different angles, so you'll have a much clearer picture as to what's not working so you explain it in slightly different ways or in a whole different way until you can win over the room and like, "We feel satisfied, please proceed." So now, anytime someone asks me that question again, or I have to explain it to someone, I'm going to take those experiences and wrap them up, and then deliver it in a succinct way without having to draw it out with five different people debating me. There's a very long way of saying something. So I feel most alive when I'm teaching people in person, and so we decided to try a concept.

We're not an event production company, but if I was really filled with joy and delight, and my creative soul was fulfilled in Australia, why wouldn't we try this more often in more places? So we're like, "Let's go to Europe, let's run some workshops, and I don't want these artificial time constraints to be put on us. I want to do full eight hours of teaching on two different subjects versus smashing everything I know together in four hours or even 30 minutes," becomes overwhelming for me. For the students who show up, bottom of my heart, thank you for listening, and on that note, I will see you in the future.

Stewart Schuster:

Thanks for joining us. If you haven't already, subscribe to our show on your favorite podcasting app, and get a new insightful episode from us every week. The Futur podcast is hosted by Chris Do, and produced by me, Stewart Schuster. Thank you to Anthony Barrow for editing and mixing this episode, and thank you to Adam Sanborne for our intro music. If you enjoyed this episode, then do us a favor by reviewing and rating our show on Apple Podcasts.

It will help us grow the show and make future episodes that much better. Have a question for Chris or me? Head over to thefutur.com/heychris, and ask away. We read every submission and we just might answer yours in a later episode. If you'd like to support the show and invest in yourself while you're at it, visit thefutur.com.

You'll find video courses, digital products, and a bunch of helpful resources about design and creative business. Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time.

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